“IS IT ANY WONDER WE’RE SANE AT ALL?” Styx.

[Stalwart]

Wow! Since my wife’s diagnosis the better part of a year ago it’s been such an intense learning experience both about BPD and of course and particularly about her thinking and who she is. This has only come about because she now trusts me enough to open up to me about her thoughts and feelings on things – sometimes anyway. Every  day it seems I’m floored with a new revelation out of nowhere that so explains difficulties from the past and each and every time they come from misconceptions of each other’s ideas and intents behind different things. I’ve learned a lot and the one most important thing I’ve learned is that judgment has no place in any of it. The second is that her thoughts and perceptions on things are as real to her as mine thoughts and perceptions are to me. There is no right or wrong, winners or losers. We both lose when we’re on different wave lengths and can’t communicate our ideas to each other. They escalate into frustration and deepened resentment, mostly without the other partner even knowing the problem exists until it’s far too late.

I’ll give you an example. I’m a touchy person (for better or worse – it’s just who I am.) I enjoy nothing more than taking the cream, warming it up and rubbing my wife’s feet while we sit together on the couch at night and watch a movie. To me it’s therapeutic, relaxing, I totally enjoy it for nothing more than it is, rubbing her feet. When I’m not doing that I’ll be giving her a back massage or just sitting rubbing her back when we’re sitting together reading or on the net or whatever. She enjoys it physically, but I never knew what problems something as simple as that could escalate into.

For ten years she’s believed that when I do those things (remember they’re almost always done nightly) that I was saying to her “That I wanted to have sex with her.” That is what she’s always thought. That was never the case in my thinking at all. I just did it because one: she enjoyed it and two: I enjoyed it. Nothing at all to do with a prelude to sex or she ‘owed’ me sex because I did those things.

She started out feeling guilty because she wasn’t living up to her “requirements” as a spouse in having sex in response, well, that would have been an outrageous demand on my part. It later turned into a real resentment and almost hatred as a result of her guilt that I was too demanding, unreasonable and selfish. That my only interest was in sex – not her. Nothing actually could have been farther from the reality or truth. In the long run she came to actually really dislike me or perhaps hate me as a result, didn’t allow me to touch her for quite some time and actually went outside the marriage to find someone who understood her better and wasn’t so demanding and selfish. Of course she met the wrong kind of guy that was attracted to her being married only because of how she looks and that was a huge failure and led to a nightmare for everyone concerned. All out of total and simple misconception about me rubbing her feet back was to each of us.

Honestly, is it any wonder we’re sane at all when we all see things so differently and don’t have the ability to communicate our feelings and share our thoughts.

I came to trust one feeling, when I’m confused about something: so is she, and it’s time to find out why so that we can fix whatever it is before it becomes so much more.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MissyM]

It is tough.  My dBPDh was  only diagnosed as BPD with NPD traits in January.  He had been diagnosed as a drug addict and then a sex addict, in the years before.   I would challenge the thought that it was the resentment that caused your wife to go outside of the marriage.  The resentments fuel that kind of behavior but they are not the cause.  The causes are a little deeper than that and have nothing to do with your relationship, they are about her.  That  is hard for a BPD to accept but true.  Using other people to make herself feel better is her issue and not a relationship issue.

[thicker skin]

It's wonderful that she can share these things with you and great to hear that you're getting the closeness that you deserve.

Men and women do rather tend to think differently and sadly, poor communication on either side can lead to hurt feelings.

I think the link here might just be that BPDs feel unloveable and any act of kindness is viewed with suspicion... . How on earth can we love them if they aren't worthy? There must be an alternative motive and it's either sex or money!

Nons have affairs... . You don't need a mental health problem to stray.

What's important is that you are moving forward and getting a better understanding of each other.

I wish you well 

[waverider]

You have to keep in mind that what we think as "normal" thinking, they have never experienced. So they cant predict or interpret what we say accurately. Just as we can't truly understand their thoughts. Its like parallel universes. They will translate what we do or say into what it means in their own language with all the "alternative" interpretations that go with it. eg they are flippant with "the truth" hence they will assume we are too, as that is their normal. They change their minds rapidly, hence we must too.

The frustrating thing is that even when you can get to the stage where they can be open with you, and at times very insightful, they still cant change the way they think. This can be very frustrating

Nons have affairs... . You don't need a mental health problem to stray.

To be honest this is very common with nons in a RS with a pwBPD, as a way of coping with a turbulent RS, more than many would openly admit.

pwBPD are very good at driving others to do the very things they are afraid of. Hence reinforcing the fear.

[formflier]

Agreed... . many people have resentments and don't stray. 

However... . I see a lot of myself in this post... . wanting to figure out what led to what... . then trying to figure out how different events affected thinking and then that led to decisions.

It also speaks to how complicated normal relationships are.  Then... . when you through in a disorder where trust issues seem to be prevalent... . it makes it exponentially harder to work through things.

It is tough.  My dBPDh was  only diagnosed as BPD with NPD traits in January.  He had been diagnosed as a drug addict and then a sex addict, in the years before.   I would challenge the thought that it was the resentment that caused your wife to go outside of the marriage.  The resentments fuel that kind of behavior but they are not the cause.  The causes are a little deeper than that and have nothing to do with your relationship, they are about her.  That  is hard for a BPD to accept but true.  Using other people to make herself feel better is her issue and not a relationship issue.

[formflier]

 

Another frustrating thing is mentioned below... .  I'm trying to wrap my brain around this... . but it would seem  that there is a plot or strategy to get me to actually do the things that I am accused of doing.  

As I come to understand this disorder... . I don't think that is actually true... . but it certainly seems like it... . and feels like that to me.

If anyone has figured out how to short circuit this cycle to minimize impact... . that would be huge.

To be honest this is very common with nons in a RS with a pwBPD, as a way of coping with a turbulent RS, more than many would openly admit.

pwBPD are very good at driving others to do the very things they are afraid of. Hence reinforcing the fear.

[waverider]

Making a mountain out a molehill is what pwBPD do, as they can't see past the moment so they loose perspective. By engaging in the debate, whether by denying or reassuring, we keep the focus on that molehill, and to add to the analogy we are just heaping more dirt onto it, so the issue gets bigger.

Leave the issue behind and get on with something else and force them to see life beyond the molehill and it starts to regain perspective. pwBPd can often get over things quickly if distracted.

The whole: you cheated >did not> did> did not>did> how can you say that>because xyz>thats not true>is>is not>is>I couldn't have because>I dont believe you> well its true>is not>not only that but I couldn't have otherwise>you are just covering up> am not> you are> why would I?> you always do>do not> yes you do, everyone does>thats not true> yes it is>why do you think that after all I do> Everyone does, everyone hates me>I dont, I just hate this argument> see you hate me>no I dont>you must hate being with me> no I dont> thats why you cheat and lie about it> no I dont>how do I know?>dont you trust me?>I dont trust anyone, everyone hates me, why would anyone love me>I do> no you dont I'm not lovable> yes you are> then why does everyone cheat on me> I dont>well why didn't you answer your phone?> we've been through this>see, you dont want to talk about it because you are hiding something>what am I hiding?> you know, who is it?... . >arrghhhh! (banging head against wall) Marinate slowly in 2 days of silent treatment.

Thats how you go from a molehill to a mountain

[thicker skin]

I hear you waverider... . That's the script.

Over and over and over.

My partner spends his life looking for evidence, as he calls it, to prove he's right about me. That little tiny grain that he finds can be enough to bang me to rights, yet a polygraph is dismissed. They select the evidence to fit their theories... . Life is one long kangaroo trial.

[formflier]

As I started learning about BPD... . I just couldn't understand how the grain of truth was bigger than the mountain of evidence.  I still don't understand it... . but I know it's true.

I hear you waverider... . That's the script.

Over and over and over.

My partner spends his life looking for evidence, as he calls it, to prove he's right about me. That little tiny grain that he finds can be enough to bang me to rights, yet a polygraph is dismissed. They select the evidence to fit their theories... . Life is one long kangaroo trial.