Deliberately trying to get painted black after being permanently painted white

[vortex of confusion]

I know the thread title probably has some of you wondering whether or not I am the crazy one. I posted a thread about permanently being painted white on the staying board a couple of months ago because this is something that drives me crazy. I think it is one of the reasons that I have a difficult time detaching. Here is what I wrote on the staying board when I was seriously considering staying:

I am reading all of these threads about people being split black by their partners. My partner cannot or will not directly say anything bad about me at all. He may do it behind my back and he may be passive aggressive but he will not say anything negative directly to me.

We were having a conversation on the phone and I wanted to have a give and take conversation. I was mad at him for some things that he did. At some point in the conversation, he says, "I can't think of anything wrong that you have ever done in our relationship. Everything that you have done wrong has been because of me."

At another point not too long ago, he said I was a saint for putting up with him.

I absolutely HATE being adored like that. I HATE it when people are unwilling or unable to call me on my crap. I am much more appreciative when somebody will tell me things honestly. My best female friend and I will tell each other, "Hey, you need to rethink that." or we will remind each other of stuff or flat out say, "I think you are being ridiculous."

There have been times in our relationship when I have deliberately been a jerk just to see if I could get a rise out of him. There have been times when I have deliberately said or done things but he finds a way to turn it around and make it about him and how I never would have done those things if it hadn't been for him. No, I fully recognize that I can be the biggest b**ch on the planet. I work hard to curb that but it can be so difficult when I feel like there is absolutely no accountability on my part. I think partners should be able to hold each other accountable. I think it keeps things more balanced and honest.

Does anybody else have a problem with this? I'd like to hear some thoughts, stories, experiences.

I know most people here on the leaving boards have been painted black and don't understand why. I am having the opposite problem. I don't understand why he cannot see anything other than what he wants to see. I think that might be part of the reason that I am having a hard time detaching. It feels like he is a pathetic little whipped puppy that needs somebody to follow around. I don't want a puppy, I want a partner.

[Harlygirl]

Maybe he has just become a skilled spin doctor... .do you think that there  are others that he chooses to spin? ... .telling them what he thinks they want to hear?... .doesn't that foster the enabler to remain EXACTLY where he wants them to be?  It is just another method of CONTROL... .and it is ALWAYS about their need to CONTROL others.

[Blimblam]

Maybe he has just become a skilled spin doctor... .do you think that there  are others that he chooses to spin? ... .telling them what he thinks they want to hear?... .doesn't that foster the enabler to remain EXACTLY where he wants them to be?  It is just another method of CONTROL... .and it is ALWAYS about their need to CONTROL others.

Well they are trying to control themself.  The issue is the way they attach, they make themselves an extension of their attachments to be able to recieve their attachments projections of acceptance and praise they have trouble giving themselves yet so readily give to others. So they are trying to control their ability to accept themself through their attachments. At the same time they want to see themself as independent and autonomous, that's where other friends or attachments come into play. Dangling the name of someone else at critical moments to push you away enough to chase back to the same spot you were in before.

[vortex of confusion]

Maybe he has just become a skilled spin doctor... .do you think that there  are others that he chooses to spin? ... .telling them what he thinks they want to hear?... .doesn't that foster the enabler to remain EXACTLY where he wants them to be?  It is just another method of CONTROL... .and it is ALWAYS about their need to CONTROL others.

Very true!

He can spin pretty much anything into a crisis and I know he is really good at telling people what they want to hear.

I had never really thought of it as a form of control. I also feel like it puts me in a precarious position because he puts on this show and acts like he thinks I am perfect so that if I say anything bad or negative I look like the a$$hole. And, I feel it places expectations on me that I can't ever live up to no matter how hard I try.

I see his need for control in his interactions with the kids. There are times that he will contradict or add something that is very invalidating when the best response is something simple like, "Oh wow, how cool." And he is really bad about telling the kid what they want to hear but does not follow through like he should.

[fromheeltoheal]

I don't understand why he cannot see anything other than what he wants to see.

Mental illness.  Feelings are facts, and reality will be distorted to make the feelings better.  It's not that he wants to, it's that he has to, to make sense of his world and try and soothe emotions.

I think partners should be able to hold each other accountable. I think it keeps things more balanced and honest.

Someone who is always passive and agreeable is someone who's dishonest; no one is ever always OK with things, and painting the facade that we are is a lie.  Would you consider him a waif BPD?  Someone who always has an issue (common with all borderlines) but also needs to be taken care of, and uses that mode to control?  That would have been somewhat of a relief for me, I was with a raging btch, but I can see how it would be insidious in its own way.  What they have in common is dishonesty and a need to control.

[vortex of confusion]

Mental illness.  Feelings are facts, and reality will be distorted to make the feelings better.  It's not that he wants to, it's that he has to, to make sense of his world and try and soothe emotions.

Thanks for the reminder. There are days when I still have a problem accepting the fact that he is mentally ill. There are times when he seems so normal.

Someone who is always passive and agreeable is someone who's dishonest; no one is ever always OK with things, and painting the facade that we are is a lie.  Would you consider him a waif BPD?  Someone who always has an issue (common with all borderlines) but also needs to be taken care of, and uses that mode to control?  That would have been somewhat of a relief for me, I was with a raging btch, but I can see how it would be insidious in its own way.  What they have in common is dishonesty and a need to control.

I would definitely consider him a waif. I feel like he leans heavily towards waif/hermit. I think part of the reason that I missed so many things is that it seems he has always had some kind of ailment or something going on. It isn't the big insidious stuff. It is little stuff. I remember early in our relationship he used to constantly have stomach problems. I noticed a pattern where when I would ask him to do stuff he would suddenly have to take a crap and would have diarrhea. I have always had stomach troubles so I could sympathize with him and didn't really think too much about it. In the back of my mind, I did wonder if it was some kind of a ploy to get out of stuff. I knew he was actually using the bathroom because it stunk so bad when he was done. I really thought I was being crazy or paranoid by even thinking such a thing.

He definitely has the whole "the world is dangerous" thing going on.

Because he has always been overtly agreeable, I have tried to be more agreeable as well. I say overtly agreeable because he cannot seem to express an opinion directly but will sometimes do the passive/aggressive thing to let me know that he isn't okay with it. Trying to decide on food is almost impossible at times because it will go something like, "I am okay with whatever you want" so I will start listing options and it is only then that I get, "Not that".

[Pingo]

If he paints you as a saint then he keeps you locked in a role that serves him.  You are the caretaker and he gets taken cared for.  It's a way to deny your negative feelings towards him and keep him from having to be accountable?

[vortex of confusion]

If he paints you as a saint then he keeps you locked in a role that serves him.  You are the caretaker and he gets taken cared for.  It's a way to deny your negative feelings towards him and keep him from having to be accountable?

Good point! I hadn't really thought of it like that before. I just know that I have spent a lot of times questioning my own perceptions and feelings. He sees things as so good (most of the time) and he sees me as so wonderful yet I don't think or feel the same way. I have often questioned whether or not things were as bad as I thought they were. Heck, even now, I will type stuff here and people will react to it and tell me how horrible it is and that they are sorry that I have to deal with this stuff. And I have to fight the urge to say, "But it's not that bad." When people react to my story, I find myself wanting to defend the situation and question whether or not I am portraying things too harshly. Am I putting a negative spin on things to justify my own negative feelings?

[Pingo]

I have often questioned whether or not things were as bad as I thought they were. Heck, even now, I will type stuff here and people will react to it and tell me how horrible it is and that they are sorry that I have to deal with this stuff. And I have to fight the urge to say, "But it's not that bad." When people react to my story, I find myself wanting to defend the situation and question whether or not I am portraying things too harshly. Am I putting a negative spin on things to justify my own negative feelings?

I cannot tell you how many times I felt this way.  That's why I didn't tell many what was really going on until we split.  I even did this with my first husband (non) who was an a$$.  But if people pointed out he was an a$$ I'd get defensive!  Being out of the r/s for 5 mths, I am shocked at how much denial I was in!  I even recycled after the first split, (after I actually had the thought he might shoot me and my son and scrambled to get out of the house), because I thought I had over reacted... .it's amazing what we can convince ourselves of!

[fromheeltoheal]

I knew he was actually using the bathroom because it stunk so bad when he was done.

So does that mean he really is full of sht?  Sorry, couldn't resist... .

When people react to my story, I find myself wanting to defend the situation and question whether or not I am portraying things too harshly.

Your questioning is a good thing, and one of the benefits of your participation on these boards.

Am I putting a negative spin on things to justify my own negative feelings?

I say it's the other way around: what we think, and how we think about it, determines how we feel.  And sometimes what we really think but are in denial of consciously breaks through and affects how we feel.

[vortex of confusion]

So does that mean he really is full of sht?  Sorry, couldn't resist... .

ROTFLMAO. . .thank you for the laugh!

Your questioning is a good thing, and one of the benefits of your participation on these boards.

I have had so many moments of questioning. I feel like there are times when I am downplaying my own contribution in things but for the most part I think I am actually still downplaying things. It is like I have become numb and am fighting to let myself think and feel scary thoughts and feelings.

I say it's the other way around: what we think, and how we think about it, determines how we feel.  And sometimes what we really think but are in denial of consciously breaks through and affects how we feel.

I think I have been unhappy a whole lot longer than I am willing to admit and I have whole lot of things that I have been in denial about trying to break through. It isn't easy.

[fromheeltoheal]

I think I have been unhappy a whole lot longer than I am willing to admit and I have whole lot of things that I have been in denial about trying to break through. It isn't easy.

No, it isn't easy, and that's where the pain of ending the relationship can come in handy, as motivation fuel to make some true growth spurts.  It's about becoming willing to admit the things we're in denial of; it was a little easier for me because I got to a point after I left her that I had no choice, and facing things I'd been avoiding forever suddenly seemed like the easiest and 'rightest' route.  Bottom line is I had been living false selves and it was time to say screw that and let my freak flag fly; I am who I am, I like myself, some people aren't going to accept me as I am, some are, and I had to get good with staying the course regardless.  So much easier, and ultimately the gift of the relationship.