When they set us up for disappointment

[byasliver]

I really hope someone can help me with this before I say something incredibly stupid to my uBPDh. Today is Mother's Day, of course, and he had hinted that he had something special/big planned for the last few days. I tried not to get my hopes up but I know what "special/big" normally means to him. Well, guess what I got? He took me to a breakfast diner we go to frequently and didn't even plan ahead enough to know that it would be crowded so I waited in the car for an hour! Yeah, that's it. Not a fancy place, not sentimental, no flowers, no card, no thought whatsoever! I have been fighting tears all day! He actually told me that he "thought about it all week" - What the heck? Seriously? We go to this place about once per week anyway! What in the world about that took so much thought? And let me note, that when I met him I already had three children and was pretty clear that I wasn't too keen on having more. However, I did let him talk me into just one more - don't regret it in the least but you'd think he could be a little more appreciative, you know? And I would have been totally fine if he hadn't hinted that it was something really special. There was absolutely NOTHING special about that - NOTHING. He might as well have taken me to McD's!

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[bruceli]

I always try to look for the good and rationalize.  It has been said many times by board members that they have the emotional maturity of a 3 year old... .  right?  Then Breakfast at a diner for a 3 year old is pretty good by my standards... .  Seriously... .  that's how I look at it and how I cope.

[naloorider]

Hi Byasliver... .

I'm so sorry to hear about your Mother's Day.  The one day of the year you would think you'd get the appreciation you deserve.

I don't have any thoughts on what to say to your husband.  If it were me I know I'd want to communicate my disappointment. But I doubt it will do anything more than make him feel bad/worse.

But you communicated your sadness here, and hopefully you can get support and appreciation from others in your life.

I sometimes feel disappointment in my BPD partner too, feel underappreciated when it should count more.  But I do know she really tries, has good intentions, but she often has trouble following through.

I wonder if that's what happened to your husband.  He probably DID think about trying to find a way to appreciate you all week, that was his intention.  And for whatever reason wasn't able to come up with the inner resources to make something special happen.  He fell down on the job today - and for pwBPD, that's the story of their life, and they know it, and hate that about themselves.

Being in a relationship with someone with BPD is to accept some huge limitations from your partner, including on Mother's Day.  

From someone who doesn't even know you... .  Happy Mother's Day!  You deserve appreciation and love, and to really just take care of yourself and not anyone else today.

best,

naloorider

[byasliver]

bruceli, I DO get that but at the same time he wants and expects the rights/respect of an adult. It's like I'm supposed to treat him like an adult when it suits him but be forgiving/understanding when that suits him. I know that is where boundaries come in but I don't know how to enforce boundaries about certain things without invalidating him. How do I tell him that I won't let him make certain adult decisions when he hasn't proven himself to think about those situations like an adult without invalidating him?And I don't know how to reconcile how thoughtful he used to be with how thoughtless he is now. He was in a p*ssy mood about going out for breakfast this morning, got mad when I was frustrated by the diner being busy, and has yet to even say one single nice thing to me today - not even "Happy Mother's Day". Seriously, this is the absolute worst MD ever!

The only saving grace has been two of my daughters that are here this weekend. One made me a powerpoint presentation that was hilarious and incredibly touching! The other one asked me to take pictures with her and then jumped into my arms for the pics! You have to know her: she normally acts like just my touching her is horrendous and never wants a pic with me - oh, and she's nearly my size! Lol! After that the three of us went on a grocery run (which uBPDh promised he would do for me then took a nap instead) and had tons of laughs as we always do.

I know I should be focused on all of that but uBPDh is acting like and hinting that I should be falling over myself with gratitude for what he did for me today. NOT HAPPENING! I'm doing good not to tell him just how hurt and disappointed I am! My only choice is to retreat to my attic hideaway and cry my eyes out where I won't be seen/heard.

naloorider - got your post while writing mine - thank you so much. I'm still disappointed but you helped me see the possible flip side to what's going on with my H. You are probably 100% right: he probably has spent all week trying to come up with something but wasn't able to. He is a person of material things - gifts to him are things you buy for someone. In our 9 years together I've never successfully gotten through to him that the gifts that mean the absolute most to me are those that cost nothing but thought. Ironic when he says the best gift ever given to him was our son. You'd think he'd get it but, for whatever reason, he just doesn't. You know, if he'd have even just shared those feelings with me... .  it would have been priceless.

[arabella]

Oh. Ugh. I'm a bit on the same page as bruceli, sadly.

Although... .  Sometimes my H does things that I think are rather thoughtless or just plain odd and it turns out he has a whole other thought process churning behind the scenes. In the situation you describe I can imagine my H thinking that this was a great idea because it's someplace we usually go. He'd think that I'd think (yes, I know) that it was "our" place and so he'd assume that I'd want to go there and that it would be special for me. He would think this was romantic. It's not my idea of romantic or special - but I get that my H thinks so in his attempt to figure out how my romance scale works (he rarely tries, so the fact that he thinks about it at all, ever, is something - he's just really bad at it).

So, could you pretend that your H is like mine in this regard - just to make yourself feel better even? (You said you were trying to come up with ways not to say something you'll regret to your H!)

And happy Mothers' Day! WE know how much you deserve to be appreciated!

[byasliver]

Aw, arabella, thanks!   Actually, my day has improved. Venting here helped a lot and then I went downstairs and goofed around with my oldest D16 and her boyfriend while they are cooking in the kitchen. I really am blessed to have teenagers that like to hang out with me and not because of some horribly dysfunctional reason like giving them alcohol (my mom did that but I am soo against that sort of thing!). In fact, just this morning my middle D13 was telling me about how she is no longer hanging out with one of her friends because they are doing drugs and that she (my daughter) even recognizes that she needs to cut off ALL contact with that friend until she is more healthy. She's only thirteen and "gets it" and TOLD ME about it! And she didn't tell me to get some type of brownie points - it came up because we were talking about various friends and she was saying how worried she is about that girl.

My kids prove to me everyday just how blessed I am as a mom. I came from a pretty dysfunctional upbringing but I managed to do better than what was done for me. THEY are my badges of honor and I couldn't really ask for anything better than that! You know, even my exH (my daughters' father) and his wife texted me this morning to wish me a Happy Mother's Day and I truly consider both of them dear friends - that took work and I'm super proud that we were able to do that for our daughters.

So no more pity-party! And no more expecting someone so dysregulated to provide me with emotional support! I try to look at even the worst of life's moments as blessings in disguise and maybe that's what I needed for today: something to remind me of just where my focus should be. That being the best mom I could ever be is the greatest accomplishment I could ever have on this earth and come hell or highwater, that always has been and will continue to be my top priority! And to that the army girl in me says, "HOOAH!" 

[arabella]

My kids prove to me everyday just how blessed I am as a mom. I came from a pretty dysfunctional upbringing but I managed to do better than what was done for me. THEY are my badges of honor and I couldn't really ask for anything better than that! You know, even my exH (my daughters' father) and his wife texted me this morning to wish me a Happy Mother's Day and I truly consider both of them dear friends - that took work and I'm super proud that we were able to do that for our daughters.

You reap what you sow. Apparently you're an amazing mom because your kids sound like they're growing up to be wonderful people! And even your ex is texting to tell you that. HOOAH! indeed!

I'm so glad to hear that your day improved!

[clairejen]

Bruceli wrote

always try to look for the good and rationalize.  It has been said many times by board members that they have the emotional maturity of a 3 year old... .  right?  Then Breakfast at a diner for a 3 year old is pretty good by my standards... .  Seriously... .  that's how I look at it and how I cope

----Good idea. Yet they often perform very well at work, in public, and can be very adult-like... .  how do you reconcile that with the 3 year old behavior in close relations?

-----Byasilver----does he normally buy you gifts? (Happy Mom's Day!)

Claire

[arabella]

----Good idea. Yet they often perform very well at work, in public, and can be very adult-like... .  how do you reconcile that with the 3 year old behavior in close relations?

I look at it through the lens of different types of intelligence. High academic IQ - very low emotional IQ (not quite that simple, but you get the idea). I think of it basically as a disability.

[byasliver]

clairejen, he used to be incredible with the gifts he bought. Not just expensive gifts (but those were prevalent) but thoughtful ones, too. And I really struggle with the whole thing that they seem to know when to "behave" which seems to indicate that they are very aware of appropriate and inappropriate behavior. Then why the lack of control behind closed doors? I haven't figured that one out, yet, either.

My day just got even better, though. My youngest came home with a bag full of thoughtful goodies for me that she and her stepsister (my exH's new wife's daughter) picked out. Who does that for the ex these days? It may have started out rough, but I ended up being showered with reminders of how much I am loved and what great kids I have - I couldn't ask for more! If uBPDh can't see what others see in me, that's his loss!

[byasliver]

Just picked up this quote from another thread but it explains the hypocrisy we've touched on here so well! From waverider, "Yes selective accuracy in memory and thought process can blow you over at times. They are not stupid or dulled in thought. It is just the motivation in assembling those thoughts are faulty." They know how to act publicly because they are motivated to do so but not so motivated in private because we've let them get away with so much. THAT is where our boundaries come in! We set appropriate boundaries and it either motivates them to change their behavior or it doesn't. Either way, we eventually get back to a more peaceful and more balanced life!

Still struggling with some of my boundary setting. It is pretty clear to me how to set boundaries on undeniable behaviors such as abuse but harder when it comes to behaviors that aren't so "black & white". I.e. My uBPDh is considering jobs that would mean moving away from me and the kids but I have huge trust issues with that which he seems unwilling or unable to address right now. He also wants to set down rules/consequences for the kids which are unreasonable and I don't know how to set boundaries for that without invalidating him. After talking for two hours one day on just that issue, we basically got nowhere except an agreement that he needs to be a little more patient and work on his expectations. Yeah, that was great that day but later it set in with him that he hadn't gained anything: i.e. he didn't get to set any rules/consequences and he's been rather pouty about that.

At least I understand better the discrepancy in their behavior a little better. Hope someone else is helped, too.

Happy Mother's Day to all - mom's who chose to be moms, the moms who are chosen, and even the dads who have to take on that role, too.

[bruceli]

bruceli, I DO get that but at the same time he wants and expects the rights/respect of an adult. It's like I'm supposed to treat him like an adult when it suits him but be forgiving/understanding when that suits him. I know that is where boundaries come in but I don't know how to enforce boundaries about certain things without invalidating him. How do I tell him that I won't let him make certain adult decisions when he hasn't proven himself to think about those situations like an adult without invalidating him?And I don't know how to reconcile how thoughtful he used to be with how thoughtless he is now. He was in a p*ssy mood about going out for breakfast this morning, got mad when I was frustrated by the diner being busy, and has yet to even say one single nice thing to me today - not even "Happy Mother's Day". Seriously, this is the absolute worst MD ever!

You can't... .  They can do it to you... .  but don't you dare do it to them or you are for sure going to hear about it.

[dawnjd]

byasilver - Ugh I feel you. Mother's day wasn't what I expected. I just wanted a couple of things done on the Honey-do list and him to take over the 3 year old. Honey-dos weren't done until a huge fight and he was so angry, he ignored our son. In fact, he thought I should be incredibly grateful of our Mother's day lunch he made... .  when it was the same lunch as always and I did the dishes while he did lunch (it was a one of those we each had to do one chore, pick one.)

But Bruce makes a good point. Making lunch is a big deal to a 3 year old. In fact, as my 3 year old would say (after he eats, poops, pees, runs up the stairs, etc), "I DID IT MOMMY!"... .  which is what I guess my SO was feeling too.   (Should I be gracious that my SO poops and pees in the toilet too?)

byasilver, I think it is just part of their nature. I now expect disappointments... .  I am still waiting for the last 3 xmas gifts he told me about and made a BIG story about to prepare me (two years ago it was a to be a specially made gate for our farm... .  we drew the logo out together and all. year before: an frame and axle for my chicken trailer... .  I'll never see either, in fact I don't even think he was really going to do it) Last christmas, after I told him exactly what I wanted and he said he would get that and he was already planning to get them (Tickets to a concert)... .  I got kitchen lights. Kitchen lights that are still sitting in the garage and even though all the lights in our kitchen are broken, he still hasn't put them up. But he was very proud of that gift... .  thinking he was inventive and that it was something I really wanted. (because he heard everyday, my saying "We really need to fix these lights." Exactly like a child giving a gift to a parent.

Of course, when I ask him about these expectations he sets me up for, it becomes my fault... .  because I am too damn hard to shop/find gifts for.   those would have been great gifts!

I protect myself by just having low expectations and if there is something I really want, just get it myself. Seeing them as a 3 year old is helping too.

[byasliver]

bruceli & dawnjd, thanks for your insights. I really do get the idea of looking at him as disabled or as a child and that works most of the time. However, when he is pushing for adult respect and adult privileges, that's when I struggle. Just this morning he approached me about wanting to talk about some things he knows have been bothering me but as soon as I start talking about MY feelings, he wants to bring up every wrong ever done to him by us and says really hurtful things. I know this is where radical acceptance plays a part and boundaries, too. Just have to figure out HOW. How do I accept that the relationship may never be equal, How do I set boundaries but still validate, and How do I not allow him to exert control using his skewed thinking but still not invalidate him in the process?

[raindancer]

I hope this will be helpful on the subject of gift-giving.

Bit of background - I met a woman, who is now my mentor for my school placement. She's given me permission to share this. She is BPD, now in remission 10 yrs. I hope this does not cross boundaries of posting here.

BPD is considered a disability in the medical, developmental and mental health services sectors where I live - some states, provinces, countries may not.

In terms of special days, according to my mentor - these are times that are those most difficult for BPDs simply because of all the triggers in their own minds. They want to have the "movie" representation of the day but simply do not know how to pull it off, so in their hurt/confusion/fear of disappointing end up doing nothing or create a situation that draws away from the fact they did nothing (act out, self-harm, ignore, become abusive) or stick to the thing that has brought a positive reaction in the past (going to a familiar place, making a promise that they may or may not keep). It not unusual for a pwBPD to completely ignore, pull a disappearing act, go silent or act out on special days... .  

Gift purchasing is fraught with confusion. The way my mentor explained her yrs with full-blown BPD - she has a granddaughter who loves toys, she goes to a toy store to buy a toy, she is faced with a wall of toys, she searches for the one thing she knows her granddaughter will love, becomes so overwhelmed with which one to buy (she doesn't want to disappoint, she wants to hear her granddaughter laugh and be excited), she becomes frightened by fear of choosing the wrong one, grabs the doll she knows her grandaughter already has because she knows she already loves it. Then after leaving the store is ashamed at herself for settling, gets angry with herself for settling and then ends up tranferring her own feelings of guilt/shame/disappointment etc onto her grandaughter by saying she shouldn't expect so much, or belittling the gift itself, or black-balling the special occasion altogether.

My Mother's Day was as I expected - very relaxed, low-key and the shiny moments came in small, unexpected ways. I've come to get used to this. I've been a mother 26 yrs, 4 kids; and in the days when I expected any kind of grand recognition I spent the day crying rather than celebrating. So I now celebrate the shiny moments that happen to appear with joy and gratitude and not go into it with any hopes of it being more than any given Sunday.

[bruceli]

In terms of special days, according to my mentor - these are times that are those most difficult for BPDs simply because of all the triggers in their own minds. They want to have the "movie" representation of the day but simply do not know how to pull it off, so in their hurt/confusion/fear of disappointing end up doing nothing or create a situation that draws away from the fact they did nothing (act out, self-harm, ignore, become abusive) or stick to the thing that has brought a positive reaction in the past (going to a familiar place, making a promise that they may or may not keep). It not unusual for a pwBPD to completely ignore, pull a disappearing act, go silent or act out on special days... .  This would explain alot about yesterday.  Thanks

[byasliver]

In terms of special days, according to my mentor - these are times that are those most difficult for BPDs simply because of all the triggers in their own minds. They want to have the "movie" representation of the day but simply do not know how to pull it off, so in their hurt/confusion/fear of disappointing end up doing nothing or create a situation that draws away from the fact they did nothing (act out, self-harm, ignore, become abusive) or stick to the thing that has brought a positive reaction in the past (going to a familiar place, making a promise that they may or may not keep). It not unusual for a pwBPD to completely ignore, pull a disappearing act, go silent or act out on special days... .  

This is a great explanation and helps a lot. I think I'm going to start a new thread to try to address the contradictory statements/actions on his part that everything developed into today. Briefly here I will just say that I was able to finally, calmly, and clearly put into words the unbalance of his expectations and he agreed... .  at first... .  until he realized that the truth of that would mean consequences for him. Now he's back-peddling as usual. A line was crossed, though, and I don't intend to just submit.

[arabella]

raindancer - thank you for posting that explanation! I know that the subject of holidays, and how much pwBPD seem to hate them, comes up frequently here. Yours is the best understanding I've seen on the subject and it matches perfectly with the little information that I've managed to get out of my dBPDh. Very helpful!

[dawnjd]

Raindancer-thank you, that puts alot into perspective.