Do people with BPD go through any stages of grief

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I know the move on fast, but once they are caught and can't recycle someone they were attached to . Do they grieve or do they keep you black in order to move on.

[Itstopsnow]

I know the move on fast, but once they are caught and can't recycle someone they were attached to . Do they grieve or do they keep you black in order to move on.

[troisette]

Interesting question. I'd like to know about that too. Thanks.

[CollateralDamage]

I would love insight into this. What would be their stages of grief when they split a person black, if any. Does the grief take longer to emerge causing these cycles?

[Itstopsnow]

For me my ex was trying to save me to recycle for sure. We dated 18 months, but 20 months talking and hanging out. I caught him in his second relationship! He painted me black and the devil and was chasing the girl he dated for 4 months. We have never been apart or not talked more than 16 days. We did so many trips and we were so close. I think once he dates other girls, and those relationships ultimately fail. He will remember and miss me. I know he thought I was the funniest and most attractive . He even told his ex. And I'd like to think we did have a solid bond . Until I found out about his disgusting ways! I'll never look at him the same. I don't want him back! He was careless and reckless with my love and heart! I just hope they realize between all their short stormy relationships that were likely rebounds from long term ones . I'm sure some of their relationships had to mean more than others . I'll never know though . We have no common friends as he had no friends . And that's fine with me. I need to just learn to accept and let go.

[troisette]

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=208969.40

I was interested in your question Itstopdsnow so I Googled "do BPD's grieve the break-up of relationships".

Up popped a thread on this section of the site. I've posted the link but in case it doesn't work, the thread is dated 4 and 5 September 2013.

It covers five pages and there are lots of wise and informative comments on it. Hope it helps answer your question, it helped me. 

[Itstopsnow]

Thanks I'll check it out

[Itstopsnow]

I was actually thinking about it, and I think a big part of their life is one big grief! They are constantly trying to control and hold on to things and self saboting their lives. Pull and push and devalue and discard . They must feel the same constant turmoil . But can't seem to either accept their part in it or deal with the fact that they are seriously messed up. People say all the time, and I believe it because I've witnessed it with my ex. His projections and blaming me, he is the victim. But I can't help but know on a deep level these people know they are messed up! They know right from wrong and society norms. They are usually above average intelligents. They feel they are different . They are living double lives, really for no reason other than because of engulfment and abandonment. They cheat and its devastating because usually there is no major problem in the relationship. (Except when they blow up) that's why it's such a shock to us. We think mostly everything was good. That's why they can't be alone even one night. They need constant companionship or stimuli in order to not reflect on their atrocious behaviors. Deep down in the part where shame lies all their bad things they do to people and society are. The shame is reenforce day by their current actions. No matter how close they get with someone they never can let their true self be seen or known! That is sad and scary and isolating. Imagine feeling like you can never be the real you with anyone. They live a secret life of lies and they live it alone

[C.Stein]

No matter how close they get with someone they never can let their true self be seen or known!

My ex has on several occasions told me I would never see her bad side.  Considering what she did to me during our relationship ... .I wonder exactly what her "bad" side is.

[troisette]

My ex is undiagnosed. I only found out about BPD when I was talking informally to a psychiatrist who is a friend of a friend. I was puzzled and confused by my experiences and wanted his comments.

He asked if I realised that I was described the classic indicators of BPD. I had no idea, or what the illness is. He of course, could not make a formal diagnosis. I've since been reading and reading. I'm horrified at what I let myself  in for by involving myself, and whilst I'm angry with him, I also have great compassion for him. I swing from one to the other.

Yes, I think that "a big part of their life is one big grief". My ex is able to hide a lot of it because he has superficial relationships,and is high functioning and charming.  I got close and saw what was underneath. It disturbed my but I didn't know what it was.

Now it seems likely, probable actually, that he has BPD I have wondered about whether I should speak to him about it. I decided not to because he has devised his own coping mechanisms and it's not for me to disturb them. It's very sad - for him and for me. But then I think of the people he has hurt in the past, the results of his behaviour on them, and renew my determination to stay safe in NC.

I was interested about your question Itstopsnow, wondering if he feels any grief. The messages I've read on the thread from 2013 make me even more vigilant in case he ever contacts me. It seems likely to me that some do have feelings of inverted grief, only it's not real grief. It's a manifestation of pain further down the line, when they have been abandoned again and recycling seems to be a way of avoiding it. So not grief like we feel it, just feeling their own pain but not being able to work through it.

Makes me very sad because I can't help him. He would  be resistant to therapy, mention of BPD could cause further damage to him. :'(

[enlighten me]

Troisette I was reading your post and it made me wonder. What is grief?

I don't think we can distinguish between what we grieve and what a pwBPD grieves as it is the same in my opinion. We all grieve the loss and we do it from a selfish perspective. It is "our" loss we grieve. How is it different for a pwBPD?

I don't say this to diminish our grief. I just think that grief is grief but its how we handle it that differs.

I think my exgf grieved the loss of the relationship before I even knew we were over. Somewhere in the devaluation phase is where I think this happened. I think this is why she could move on so easily as she was months ahead of me in the recovery process. I also believe that they regret what has happened at a later date but for mine I don't think it was the main grieving happening but more of a what if or what have I done.

[GreenEyedMonster]

From what I can tell, my ex only lets himself long for things he can actually have.  If he can't have something, he paints it black, and stops wanting it.  So no, he never really grieves, at least not overtly.  What would be grief gets transformed into other emotions, like anger.

Right now I think he is cycling between wanting me (because he thinks he can maybe get me back) and hating me and trying to move on.  He can't settle on either because he's not sure what I'd say if he came back, and he's going to have a heck of a hard time replacing our relationship with anything close to similar quality.  So he sits alone with his cats . . .

[Moselle]

I really wonder from an intellectual point of view what they grieve too and I think its just a loss of utility for them. The resources of the host. There's  no remorse because that would require accountability.

Mine said. "You deserve love and Happiness" during one of her rare lucid moments, but all too soon the darkness took over and she returned to raging. But I do not believe she sees me as a person, but more like a donor of sperm and money. So her sentiments are more matter fact.

They seem to also stick to certain phrases. Mine would say "I loved you. ... my way"

[enlighten me]

What we also have to bear in mind is these lucid moments. They aren't BPD 24/7. It depends on their emotional state at any given time. During calmer times then there is no reason that they cant reflect on their loss and grieve it.

[troisette]

Hi Enlighten me - I see grief as extreme sadness caused by loss. I see grieving as a natural way, to deal with and process grief. Grief can be a selfish emotion, when we have lost someone we love we can grieve for our own sadness. I see "grieving" and "grief" as separate things. The stages of grieving a natural way to work through our grief - it's my personal view that BPDs don't go through the grieving process because it brings up too many emotions that are unbearable for them.

[enlighten me]

Hi Troisette

I agree. Grieving is the way we process grief. I think that pwBPD are capable of grieving but the process may differ to non BPD people. I think as it is a spectrum disorder then those at the lower end will grieve in a very similar way where as others may not even be able to as going there is too painful so they just avoid it.

I was reading about grief and the amygdala in someone grieving is hyperactive. It has been shown that the amygdala in a pwBPD is very active normally. More so than in a non. If this is the case then grief could even more magnified in a pwBPD than in a non. This could be why they seem to avoid grief and find distraction as it is too painful. Just a thought.

[GreenEyedMonster]

What we also have to bear in mind is these lucid moments. They aren't BPD 24/7. It depends on their emotional state at any given time. During calmer times then there is no reason that they cant reflect on their loss and grieve it.

I can remember my ex sometimes talking about some really terrible things he's done and feeling quite remorseful about them, but then shifting gears before the conversation ended and explaining why he had to do them, rationalizing.  I suspect he does that with our relationship, too.  I often wonder now that he's done the same thing to two different women if he's taking it even harder.  Unlike his other ex, there is really no good way to rationalize what he did this time.

I think that they allow themselves to feel grief very, very temporarily, but not long enough to experience growth and change the way most of us would.

[troisette]

Interesting comments enlightenme, and relevant to me. I'm not BPD but recognised that there were reasons why I was hooked in to my ex, when, in retrospect, I should have drawn firmer boundaries and left much earlier than I did.

Ending it was the most agonising thing I remember experiencing. I was hardly functioning for two or three months, obsessing, fantasising - all the things we read of here.

I say "remember experiencing" because I had an insight a few weeks ago: my father died when I was three, it was a long death and I was the youngest and the only child not at school. He died at home and I was always told how much he loved me. Although I couldn't remember his death, but I could remember him during his illness.

In those days children's grief was not recognised and my mother was severely depressed. So my feelings were not attended to. I don't think I ever grieved my father and that it has stayed with me.  Looking back I realised that I

had always evaded grieving a relationship. Either putting up with dreadful behaviour, extending relationships for many years or, if it was irrevocable, quickly finding a replacement.

I think this was because I had stored my grief for my father, terrified of feeling it. So, when the BPD relationship ended, I was hijacked by grief. It felt like a tsunami of grief. The most awful thing I've ever experienced. I realised that I must go through this, live through the grief, go through the stages of grieving. Which I am.

I may sound rational, it's difficult to convey the vortex of emotions I am experiencing as I grieve my dad and my ex. Day by day, minute by minute sometimes.

[troisette]

... .and so involved in explaining my own grief and grieving that I forgot to mention the reason for my original interest!

Intrigued by whether or not BPDs grieve because ex always  told me that he found the best way to deal with ended relationships was to "cauterise" them - this included one of his sons. I found this a bit shocking and remember thinking that although he thought he had cauterised several people from his life, I didn't think he'd dealt with his emotions because he talked so much about those people.

[enlighten me]

Hi Troisette

I agree. Like you not grieving your father I think some pwBPD cauterise their grief by avoiding it. By not properly grieving the pain is always lurking in the background. It gets pushed further and further back but never truly goes away.

[butterfly15]

Hi Troisette

I agree. Like you not grieving your father I think some pwBPD cauterise their grief by avoiding it. By not properly grieving the pain is always lurking in the background. It gets pushed further and further back but never truly goes away.

My pwBPDex told me if someone in his life isn't working for him he will just eliminate them. He never truly has eliminated anyone in his life to my knowledge. He has threatened me many times. However, we haven't spoken in 3 weeks now. The only person I know he has possibly closed the door on really eliminated from his life is his abusive father that he hasn't spoken to in over 20 years. Before we "ended" things I guess is the what I have come to terms with he did tell me that he had accepted his life without me and seemed happy when I told him I hate that I love him because I don't want to. He told me that was good. That's what he wanted to hear.

[hashtag_loyal]

By not properly grieving the pain is always lurking in the background. It gets pushed further and further back but never truly goes away.

I would say that pwBPD do this with all of their negative feelings, not just grief. I would also suggest that not only do the feelings never truly go away, they also build over time. They keep kicking the cans of emotion farther and farther along until finally they roll downhill, pick up enough debris along the way and ultimately turn into an avalanche of grief, rage and shame.

[enlighten me]

I agree hashtag

I was going to say that it builds up but I don't know where it ends up so didn't want to jump to that.

I know from what I have seen of my exs that their grief haunts them. I just don't know whether they ever purge themselves of it. Does it keep growing until it the dam bursts or does it make them worse?

[troisette]

It's an interesting view hashtag loyal. My ex is in his sixties, my only experience of a BPD.

A psychiatrist told me that by his age, he will have developed coping mechanisms - apparently these are sometimes confused with the idea that BPDs getting better with age. They don't, but know how to avoid stuff that provokes reactions.

I felt that although he seemed to have his life rules and way of living sorted out - and they were quite inflexible and predictable, giving a fairly normal facade - that underneath, he was a volcano ready to blow.

And that his coping mechanisms were all about trying to avoid that.