My soon to be ex-BPD just got served. Please review my email to L.

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

My L. emailed me last Wed he received the writ of Summon. Not like my first L. she is prompt and reachable. I wrote this email but didn't send yet. Is it too much? I still do not know how much/little/often contact her. The book says not to use L. to vent which I don't think I am. I only met her once for initial conference and was not of course able to tell her details. Should I give her some details like this email?

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Thanks for the update.

After being served, he came to get the children this past weekend because he can not see the children on his next visitation weekend-Father's Day weekend. For the first time in the past year, he texted me to have kids call him to explain why he is late. Good for kids.

Kids' clothes came back dirty and crumbled up again since Mother's Day weekend. We had discussions about kids clothes at the beginning of this separation. His last text in September was to stock up their essentials and clothes in his place. I want children to feel his place is their home too. Until then, I pack clothes.

The memorial weekend he asked me to switch because of his business trip, I learned that he went to Jamaica with his girlfriend. It upsets me very much to learn that he does not have money for kids' after activities but enough to spend on a vacation. There are other pictures on his and her Facebook. I am keeping journals.

I also received the tax return check from him shortly after the meeting with you in April. $1800. I have not cashed yet because I am not sure if it is half, in addition to the lies he made on tax return form.

Please advise me anything else I should do. Thank you for all of your help.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Is it too much information at once? Should I shorten it? How? Or should I wait to tell all these at mediation? I appreciate all of your support and input! Thank you.

[Godslove]

My L. emailed me last Wed he received the writ of Summon. Not like my first L. she is prompt and reachable. I wrote this email but didn't send yet. Is it too much? I still do not know how much/little/often contact her. The book says not to use L. to vent which I don't think I am. I only met her once for initial conference and was not of course able to tell her details. Should I give her some details like this email?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thanks for the update.

After being served, he came to get the children this past weekend because he can not see the children on his next visitation weekend-Father's Day weekend. For the first time in the past year, he texted me to have kids call him to explain why he is late. Good for kids.

Kids' clothes came back dirty and crumbled up again since Mother's Day weekend. We had discussions about kids clothes at the beginning of this separation. His last text in September was to stock up their essentials and clothes in his place. I want children to feel his place is their home too. Until then, I pack clothes.

The memorial weekend he asked me to switch because of his business trip, I learned that he went to Jamaica with his girlfriend. It upsets me very much to learn that he does not have money for kids' after activities but enough to spend on a vacation. There are other pictures on his and her Facebook. I am keeping journals.

I also received the tax return check from him shortly after the meeting with you in April. $1800. I have not cashed yet because I am not sure if it is half, in addition to the lies he made on tax return form.

Please advise me anything else I should do. Thank you for all of your help.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Is it too much information at once? Should I shorten it? How? Or should I wait to tell all these at mediation? I appreciate all of your support and input! Thank you.

[ForeverDad]

My lawyer ignored much of what I sent him.  And then he used a few items that I just thought were minor and he viewed as gems.  So understand that it's hard for us to know in advance what a lawyer will use or not.  So don't feel bad about providing too much data.  Just make sure it is presented well in a logical or orderly manner.  Be aware that many lawyer will charge for each communication, such as in quarter hour increments even if it is handled by assistants.  So once you're past the initial chaos and urgencies, accumulate the minor issues for periodic updates/queries to save costs.  Lawyers - and courts - generally ignore the low-level conflict.

[livednlearned]

There is a bit of a learning curve to this. In the beginning, it might feel like you can't tell what is useful/not useful until you get the hang of things. You can also ask your L directly how much to send, what kinds of items. My L told me early on that she charges more for attachments. She also told me the best way to save money is to be very careful about what I write to N/BPDx. I also sent things to her associate (less expensive). If he felt it required action, he forwarded it to her.

What is your goal? What is your strategy? It's important to know what the long-term goal is and strategy so you can plan.

My goal was full custody. My strategy ended up involving a deposition, so I put together a binder. This saved me money (otherwise L would have to do it). Unless I had no idea how to handle something, I filed everything away and would summarize what was happening. She also told me about the judge and the things he really cared about. I flagged those items.

After the deposition, we signed on to have a PC. This was part of the strategy -- to have a third-party professional observe us, someone who could potentially testify.

You may want to bullet your items for the L to save you some money:

* ex says no money for kids' activities, yet went to Jamaica with girlfriend

* concerned about him falsifying info on tax returns -- I've received the check (not sure if it is full amount)

You may need to let go of the clothing issue. It's small potatoes in court. This is something you'll have to work out with the kids, getting them to be responsible for their self-care at his house. It's a parallel parenting issue, it sucks, and it's hard to resolve through court.

It helped me to document (ie. save) emails. It also helped to categorize them. Evidence of: obstruction of S13's services; name-calling and/or threats; false allegations; substance abuse. I had a category for cooperative parenting, too. It was pretty small. 

[ForeverDad]

Though not bluntly stated, I've concluded court and other professionals treat parents as though they're two people in one.  They split the behaviors in half, they largely ignore the Adult behaviors (such as how one spouse treats the other) and give more focus to the Parenting behaviors (how each parent treats the children).

Also, there's a saying I've read here and now repeat often... .  The person behaving poorly seldom gets Consequences and the person behaving well seldom gets Credit.  In other words... .  Sometimes we're sure the ex will get in deep trouble but then nothing comes of it.  Sometimes we worry overmuch about every little aspect of our actions and then get no credit for it or even get in trouble for one small misstep.  Ponder that.

[Godslove]

Thanks. I am learning a lot. I am glad I didn't sent the email. I am organizing all the emails/texts in a binder but honestly I do not know at what point I will be using this.

This is the email I received from my L. today.

Attached, please find a Notice of Scheduling Conference that we received. We’ll talk more about this as the date approaches, but the Scheduling Conference is just for the purposes of scheduling the case. We can ask the court to order mediation, they’ll set discovery deadlines, and give us a settlement conference date. We will not present testimony about the merits of the case.

* I have a hard time understanding the procedure. How I understood from my L was that my L and his L will try to settle over the phone first. If it fails, then mediation with a retired judge. If that fails, then we go to court. Is this correct?

* What is discovery? My previous L said that is to go back the past 5 years of investigation of his finances and costs a lot. I want to court to demand him to submit the financial documentation before we go that far.

* Is mediation same as a settlement conference?

* When do you present testimony? and that is when the saved email/text will be presented?

[livednlearned]

In a high-conflict divorce, it is highly unlikely that your lawyers will be able to settle things. So then, onto mediation.

If mediation fails (where both parties are supposed to work cooperatively to come to an agreement, facilitated by a mediator and both lawyers), then a settlement judge may need to adjudicate and provide a ruling. In this article, the author says mediators facilitate in mediation, whereas judges evaluate in settlement conferences: https://www.myazbar.org/AZAttorney/Archives/Nov96/nov96_pyle.PDF

In my case, we were able to agree to 95% in mediation. The outstanding item that we could not agree to said, "Parties do not agree to the issue of shared legal custody therefore this item will be heard before a judge." Or something like that. And then it took me about 2 years to gather enough evidence to file a motion for sole custody on that item alone. Meanwhile, we had our temporary consent order (determined in mediation) become permanent, as well as the granting of our divorce decree (after the one-year separation). We do not do settlement conferences where I live. In some states and counties, settlement courts have magistrates -- these are kinda like physician's assistants who have some authority, but not as much as a judge. Divorce really clogs up the courts, so to keep things running smoothly, the settlement conferences are a way to push things through without backing things up in court.

So lawyers talking first.

Then mediation.

Then settlement or court.

Discovery is the formal request for any documents that may help your L make the case that you are entitled to xyz. In my case, discovery involved interrogatories, which meant I had to produce all information about every medical and dental visit S13 had made, as well as any and all appointments I made with school personnel. My L decided she wanted to do depositions, another form of discovery. This is considered sworn testimony, usually takes place in an office conference room with both lawyers, both parties, and a reporter who transcribes the testimony. This testimony can be used for cross-examination in court, or, less formally, it's used by lawyers to determine how credible their clients would be as witnesses.

Even though many of us know that our high-conflict divorces will not be served well by mediation or settlement conferences, we have to go through the filters because that's how things work. The more you understand how things work, and why, the more you can drive your divorce. NOLO has an essential book of divorce that may help explain the basics.

Be aware that lawyers pride themselves on settling things out of court, and mediators want the same. That's their agenda. So sometimes in mediation, you will feel pressure that goes against what you think is right. The mediator in my case tried a lot of manipulative tactics, like suggesting I just wanted "my day in court" when I disagreed with shared legal custody. I knew my ex would take opposing positions on anything I suggested for S13's well-being -- he had been doing that consistently. Thanks to some good preliminary sessions with my T, who was worried I would get bamboozled or cave under pressure, I held my ground on that item.

No one will tell you that whenever you sign an order, it becomes very, very difficult to change it. Especially if you agreed to it cooperatively in mediation. So when it came time for me to file for sole custody, my L said that I knew from mediation that N/BPDx was not able to work cooperatively in the best interested of the minor child. Lawyer speak for S13 

Anyway. Keep posting questions. Eventually you will pump out all kinds of good information from people here who have gone through this! The more you know, the more you can see where lawyers are asleep at the wheel or operating from autopilot. We are special cases -- we have to make sure they understand this, and that means understanding how things work.

[Godslove]

Thank you! I printed the article to read. I don't think he has a L. yet. I don't know if he is thinking of representing himself which he did for separation agreement. My goal is non-discounted child support and full custody. I have all these emails and texts about him opposing extra activities, not being able to see kids, etc. But how do you get evidence for substance abuse? I know he drinks and drives the kids. That has been ever since kids were born, I am the witness but how do you prove it when he never gets caught?

[livednlearned]

Thank you! I printed the article to read. I don't think he has a L. yet. I don't know if he is thinking of representing himself which he did for separation agreement. My goal is non-discounted child support and full custody. I have all these emails and texts about him opposing extra activities, not being able to see kids, etc. But how do you get evidence for substance abuse? I know he drinks and drives the kids. That has been ever since kids were born, I am the witness but how do you prove it when he never gets caught?

My L told me to call the police if I suspected N/BPDx was drinking and driving. I also became extremely good at detecting inebriation, not only f2f (I could walk in the door and tell if he was drunk before he even turned around) but also in text messages. Does he text or email you when your kids are with him?

Alcoholism was established in my custody case, and to be honest, it did not really matter much, to my total disappointment. Our temporary order said N/BPDx could not drink before or during visitation, and clearly he was doing that (usually after S13 was in bed, but I'm sure he started while S13 was awake). N/BPDx also admitted he had a problem with alcohol during a deposition. And then he had a spectacular psychotic episode after mixing prescription drugs and alcohol one night while S13 was there. He sent over 100+ messages with threats, and I filed for emergency suspension of visitation. N/BPDx was evaluated by a forensic psychologist, and even admitted he had been drinking that night.

What the court cared about what not the alcohol, it was the behavior, especially the pattern of behavior.

In his case, it was twofold. It was the inability to comply with court orders, which is how BPD behavior manifests in court. Yes, you have evidence of his behavior, but the non-compliance seems to be what really gets the courts attention. Hope that your ex represents himself -- I found that really helped my case. That way, the judge will hear the nonsensical magical thinking directly.

Anyway, be sure to explain he has a substance abuse problem, and that he stonewalls and obstructs services for the kids. But be careful about saying that you are the witness -- the court will wonder if you were enabling him. My L asked me why I didn't call the cops when I knew N/BPDx drove drunk. Say that you have concerns that the nature of your ex's drinking problems are such that he might drive drunk. Then offer a solution: You do all the pick ups and drop offs (he won't like that because it will feel like you controlling him).

You may not get full custody right away, but ask for it anyway. It shows that you know what is best for the kids, and if your ex is like other BPD fathers, he will fall into a pattern of behavior that the courts won't like.

The most important thing I learned in court is to describe my concerns in terms of what was best for S13, and to have those concerns documented. And this is the important part -- have a solution or consequence for non-compliance. Your ex will not comply (being BPD), and any consequences you outline will be more likely followed by the judge. Otherwise, the court will keep giving your ex a second and third and fourth chance.

[lizzie458]

... .have a solution or consequence for non-compliance. Your ex will not comply (being BPD), and any consequences you outline will be more likely followed by the judge. Otherwise, the court will keep giving your ex a second and third and fourth chance.

Can you give an example of a consequence for noncompliance we can outline?

[Godslove]

My girl-7 yrs old told me she only ate one hot dog without buns for lunch when she came back at 8 pm. When I asked her why didn't you eat more? She said it was too cold. When I asked her why didn't you ask your dad to warm it up, she said "I did five times and he said yes but he kept on doing shots" with doing the gesture. I told her to find mom mom next time. Now doing all these with his family members and nobody is telling him not to drink and drive your kids, I am really concerned kids physical well being but also afraid my children will think of this is okay and become their norm like it has been for this BPD. and you are right. I never drank and drove but I witnessed and put up with this for 10 years even my kids in the car until I finally won the battle and drove separate cars, left family parties before him.

* Now do I document this kind of event too even though it is my child's words and I will never put my kids to the court?

* He is making big stink about him dropping and picking the kids up. I will be perfectly fine with suggesting me picking and dropping them off as a solution. But I know him that he will make all kinds of excuses to change time and place as his convenience right before the exchange. What could be the consequences?

Thanks!

[livednlearned]

* Now do I document this kind of event too even though it is my child's words and I will never put my kids to the court?

Yes. Treat it like a data point among many more that might be necessary to get full custody. It might not be enough on it's own, but it strengthens your position. Your L can say, "My client has been keeping a journal/log for x months/years." It's also a way for lawyers to posture with each other. "My client has this and that and this and that." While the other L has nothing. They want bargaining power. "You don't want this to go to court because my client is a credible witness and has x, y, and z that we'll be showing the court." Then the opposing L goes back to his client and say, "Look, you need to get yourself into substance abuse treatment to look good in front of the judge. Your wife has been keeping a log for 6 months and has records of all the threatening emails you've sent for the past year. If you want to see your kids overnight, you have to do this or the judge might give Godslove full custod of the kids and no overnights."

* He is making big stink about him dropping and picking the kids up. I will be perfectly fine with suggesting me picking and dropping them off as a solution. But I know him that he will make all kinds of excuses to change time and place as his convenience right before the exchange. What could be the consequences?

It could be that you have to establish rules first, so that the consequences make sense. For example, first request is that he does not drink before or during visitation (often it has to be phrased that "neither party will xyz" so this could end up applying to you as well). And then, to demonstrate concern (not saying you should do this, just that it's an option), you offer to pick up and drop off with conditions. First, requests to change times must be submitted in advance 24 hours (or whatever makes sense for you). If he is not there at drop off, you agree to wait 15 minutes (or whatever). If he does not respond, visitation is called off for the day.

If he does not produce the kids at the specified pick up time, you make note of it.

There is a really tedious point in these custody battles where you are building documentation. Often, things are very inconvenient and exasperating. In some ways, the more exasperated you are, the more documentation you will have. Courts care about patterns of behavior. We have to be very deliberate and articulate about fair rules, and then document how the other team is not following the rules. And then we have to present this behavior in reams of documentation to show that the opposing party can not cooperate. It's tedious and it sucks. The goal is to eventually get a good ruling in court so you can diminish both the conflict and the impact on the kids, and unfortunately that takes a lot of time and some careful strategy.

One of the worst nights of my life with N/BPDx, and I remember so clearly ForeverDad saying that it would really help my case. He was right -- that incident was the turning point when everyone started to get on the same page with me. It's hard to see the difficulties as positives when you're in the thick of it. As much as you can, focus on the goals and the strategy -- every time he does something to defy the rules, you are gathering evidence.

Can you give an example of a consequence for noncompliance we can outline?

An example: Let's say Godslove wants full custody and no overnights. This is a big ask the first time going to court, so it's important to present some conditions in which dad can earn more. So the L might say, "My client wants primary physical custody and sole legal custody, with unsupervised visitation 4 hours Saturday and 4 hours Sunday. No drinking before or during visitation, and my client will do pick ups and drop offs. We ask the court to order Mr. Godslove to undergo alcohol assessment and substance abuse treatment within the next 30 days. After 6 months of sobriety, my client is willing to discuss modification of visitation.

In this example, the compliance is stacked into the solution and it's in Godslove's favor because ex probably won't comply with the assessment or the substance abuse treatment. It took me a long time to figure this out! I also learned that you want your lawyer to write up the order -- it costs money to do this, but it also gives you a small but important bit of leverage. This is how it works: after the hearing where the judge rules one way or the other, your lawyer writes up the ruling and gives it to your ex and his L to review. Then there is a hearing to have the ruling (as written) approved and entered by the judge. This is largely procedural, but in high-conflict cases, the opposing side might show up and argue about something. That will actually draw attention to them because there should not be any arguing during a procedural hearing. Then the judge enters the order and that becomes the contract.

This is how I was able to get the consequences for non-compliance loaded into the order. The consequences were so reasonable that they didn't raise any eyebrows, but I knew, and my L knew, that N/BPDx would not comply. Then, when we inevitably went back to court, my L pointed out the consequences for non-compliance and the judge didn't get creative and offer more chances, he looked at what we all agreed to and found N/BPDx in contempt of court.

Another example (not as stacked) is this: "My client has had problems with opposing party not being consistent with the schedule. Godslove offers to drop off kids at x day and x time at his home. Any changes to the schedule must be made 24 hours in advance. Opposing party must return the kids to Godslove at the time outlined in the order. If Mr. Godslove violates the schedule repeatedly, we ask that he be held responsible for any motion for contempt legal fees my client might incur."

Another consequence for non-compliance might be that the ex has visitation deducted from the next visit if he continues to be more than an hour late.

The first time in court, judges seem to try and give everyone a lot of chances. I found it got easier to be more specific in my proposals and consequences for non-compliance as time went on. You might have to propose consequences that apply to both parties when you first start doing this (knowing that you will comply and he won't) so that you appear fair.