How often did you fight?

[Duped 1]

Just curious- how often did you fight with your BPD partner? We would often fight every 2-3days and many of them would escalate into nasty circular arguments that would go on for days. It was awful and there was always something wrong.

[kc sunshine]

We would fight (the dysregulation type fighting) about once a week, almost like clockwork.

[once removed]

every couple of days, if not every day. id count the days that we didnt - we both would, as if it was some kind of anniversary.

its pretty difficult to say the least for a relationship to thrive under those circumstances.

so what did most of your fights revolve around? what was your response to them, and what have you learned?

[rosesarered777]

Depends on how thoughtless she was and how stressed out I was and unable to bite my lip and be passive.

Even being passive would do me harm in the long run. Turning the other cheek and being the grown-up is wearing on anyone and isn't healthy.

She told me that her parents never fought but that makes me wonder how she got BPD if that was the case... ? I can see her mother definitely being passive-aggressive towards others and that is obvious where the condition came from. Her dad always seemed to find me okay.

Any holidays she would usually be fine on the first day or so but on the 2nd or 3rd day, she would start to get upset and claim that I didn't appreciate her if I had any quibbles with anything.

[stimpy]

All the time, we'd have a good week, then something would happen, big argument, silent treatment, make up cycle, back together, then something else would happen, big argument... .etc, etc,... .

Horrible.

[Duped 1]

every couple of days, if not every day. id count the days that we didnt - we both would, as if it was some kind of anniversary.

its pretty difficult to say the least for a relationship to thrive under those circumstances.

so what did most of your fights revolve around? what was your response to them, and what have you learned?

My response early in the relationship was WTF? And "people don't talk to each other like that", and "don't fight to win" and "I am not your enemy" and "we are a team" and "you can disagree or be angry while still being respectful" and "please don't talk to me like that-I love you"

As the insults, rages, and criticism continued I grew resentful and started fighting fire with fire. I remember saying to her: "now I'm starting to fight dirty like you" and it all went downhill from there. The typical pattern would be that she would say something disrespectful and I would reprimand her and try to get her to own her behavior or apologize. This lead to escalating conflicts (much of it by texts) that would last sometimes days. My thinking was that she wanted to get married and I would not if she was going to continue treating me this way so I was trying to get her to correct it (I should have walked away). She could say the nastiest stuff to me but if I told her she was being disrespectful, judgemental, rude, negative, etc. she would start crying and say I thought she was horrible. Her family would see her crying during these repeated conflicts and came to believe that I was the abusive monster as she would not in any way own her part. It was awful.

What did I learn- look for red flags, stay away from crazy people, and recognize my inner codependence and protect myself so I don't lose myself.

[once removed]

very nice reflection, Duped1!

my responses were all over the place as well. things seemed to work best when i could take a time out but quite often i had to get my shots as i read or listened to whatever she was saying. rather than accept her for who she was at face value, i tried to teach her how to treat me as well. i threatened to leave the relationship more times than i can count - empty threats, all of them, even if i meant it in the moment. messy stuff.

its a given, i think, that these were messy relationships full of conflict. on the surface it didnt seem like i had this sort of conflict with other people in my life, and i didnt, at least nowhere near that level. but once id grieved the relationship there was little to do but look at my own responses at the time and ask myself what id learned. suffice to say the answer was "a lot".

i say that because unfortunately, its not necessarily as simple as "staying away from crazy people". 26% of the population, at any given time, may meet the criteria for mental illness. difficult, challenging personalities are everywhere, in your workplace, family, friendships, church, you name it. and typically a person will not immediately identify themselves or present as "crazy".

its important to know how to navigate, not just spot, unhealthy people. good healthy boundaries go a long way in that regard, and make us more available to healthy relationships of all kinds.

heres some great information on the subject of boundaries: https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

practical examples: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368

how did your boundaries look during the relationship? in retrospect, mine mostly look like "you cant tell me what to do" (in some good ways and less constructive ways) and punishment.

[Dutched]

Hmm, let me summarize.
Well within 6 months of dating a first fight in which she blew it up.
Then for a 10 years ‘just’ draining arguments for hours and hours, in which I tried to get the picture and canalise her perceived issues, mainly with others.

After her father died the fights and outburst began (she dumped her parents at age 18 and within a year after reconciliation he became terminal ill. Imagine the heavy cross she from now on carries for missing all these yrs…)

In my diary I asked myself if this was the same woman, being my best friend and mother of ‘our’ daughter, I once knew.
Later, after son was born, I asked myself again and wrote ‘concentrate on the good she is’.
And in 1997: ‘is this my future with 2 kids and a woman that is emotional unstable that turns over in seconds as a leaf?’

I became selective in telling her my deepest feelings, my worries, stuff only partners tell each other (well as I learned from my parents that good partners do).
I tried to fill part of my emotional loneliness on focussing and enjoying the kids. Their arguments, bargaining, learning,  just participating in their growing up. 
 
So within 20 yrs. the insults, rage, criticism and soul wrenching devaluation was in plain sight.
A 10 years followed in which that woman ‘needed’ an outburst every 3 months in order to relieve her volcanic pressure.
Until a few yrs. before the end when she refused treatment (scared like hell for that!) and I had mastered the tools and was again able to canalise her behaviour, as I did in the earlier yrs., before her outbursts.

So short: same as she wrote in her diary and for 9 yrs. spoke about her parents… total split black, only negative and destructive memories.

We know the flags for the future. And stick with your boundaries, do let them let them slip through your fingers again as I did after a 10-12 yrs.!

[Duped 1]

I didn't understand that she was BPD until after we broke up so I kept trying to reason w her and be logical and rational. She has all the traits except self mutilation, infidelity and talk of suicide (although she did talk about it for about a month and said it was entirely because of our relationship and how I treated her). I have never been a party to such frequent and damaging conflict yet she acted normal at work and with friends although her friends weren't real close. She definitely had unrealistic expectations for men and was looking for someone to rescue her. I used to tell her if she acted the way she did around friends or co-workers that she wouldn't have a job or any friends. She said that was different because she wasn't in an intimate relationship w them and everyone acts polite in public but I get the real deal... .

[unicorn2014]

Every day. Lately I'd been able to end a conversation after 10 minutes if I noticed my voice raised, and then I was able to stop talking on the phone altogether. Still working on not fighting in text, cut it way down. The JADE technique really helps.

[michel71]

On the average every 10 days would be a major blow out which would then result in up to a week of the silent treatment. IT deteriorated over time as I became less resilient and unable to use the tools.
Recently it has been every 4 days or so. I calculated that we argued 90% of the time so 90% of the time our relationship sucked.

[sweet tooth]

The person in my life with BPD and I got along famously. I was really good at diffusing the emotional situations, but it wasn't enough. In close to a year the only time we really "fought" was at the discard. We would very rarely have arguments via text, but nothing severe. Looking back on it we only argued when she dysregulated... .

[Larmoyant]

On average every couple of days and via text if we weren't together. It was exhausting. I understand that pwBPD are emotionally reactive, but my ex seemed to like arguing, almost thrived on it, whilst I felt crushed and exhausted from it. How come they don't seem to be so wounded by it or does it just appear that way?

[Duped 1]

Mine started fights almost daily and many escalated into very mean below the belt cheap shots from her which unfortunately I started doing as well after a while and in the end she left because we fought too much and it was all my fault! Completely maddening

[Pretty Woman]

She would break up with me every three months like clockwork. It got to the point I knew when to expect the turmoil.  The holiday season was the worst. I missed three holiday functions one year because she picked a huge fight with me the day of. One time I was at a party when she texted me it was over.

It was ridiculous.

I got very conditioned to the patterns. I could also tell by the changes in her FB pictures where she was at in her dysregulation. It was very interesting to me. Predictable yet unpredictable.

[once removed]

The JADE technique really helps.

it does. i encourage everyone here to learn the communication tools we have on the Improving board. many members make the same complaint: "i tried to be logical and rational".

yes, this is the Detaching board and we are out of our relationships. i think sometimes theres a tendency to see techniques like SET, BIFF, DEARMAN, learning to validate/not invalidate, and not JADE as "BPD speak", or robotic, or therapy speak. not so, especially with practice. i use them all the time with everyone.

learning them does have a way of revealing where our level of communication is/was at with our partners and i think that has a lot of value. it doesnt mean, had i known them and used them at the time, that they would have been any guarantee, stopped the frequency of fights, or made my relationship more fulfilling. but improving our communication skills can now go a very long way toward finding healthy relationships.

not JADEing is a great way to avoid participating in circular arguments.

[Duped 1]

it does. i encourage everyone here to learn the communication tools we have on the Improving board. many members make the same complaint: "i tried to be logical and rational".

It makes perfect sense to try to be logical and rational as the people we are dealing look like adults even though they are not. I just kept thinking: "what the hell is wrong with her?" She is the most difficult person I have ever met.

[once removed]

relationships arent all about logic and rationale, or being right.

keep in mind bowens family systems theory that states we choose partners of the same or similar emotional level. its not so easy to see, and now may not be the time to try.

[Duped 1]

But one should expect an adult to at least understand logic.

[Duped 1]

relationships arent all about logic and rationale, or being right.

keep in mind bowens family systems theory that states we choose partners of the same or similar emotional level. its not so easy to see, and now may not be the time to try.

I don't think we were at all on the same emotional level. I think that created a lot of issues for us.

[once removed]

I don't think we were at all on the same emotional level. I think that created a lot of issues for us.

i understand. the notion was strange to me too.

when we are talking about emotional levels, and fights in particular (in which lets face it, there were no winners), this makes for a good benchmark and explains things more clearly.

An individual's overall life functioning is linked closely to his level of emotional maturity or differentiation.

The concept of Differentiation of Self is the ability to separate feelings and thoughts. Undifferentiated people can not separate feelings and thoughts; when dealing with relationships, they are flooded with feelings, and have difficulty thinking logically and basing their decisions on that. This often manifests as unrealistic needs and expectations.  Further, they have difficulty separating  their own feelings from the feelings of others‚Ķ
<br/>:)ifferentiation is described in many ways in the following points:

1. Growing in the ability to see where and how I fit into my relationship, the position I hold and the power that is and is not given to that position.

2. Growing in the ability to be fully responsible for my own life while being committed to growing closer to those I love.

3. Intentionally developing, at the same time, autonomy and intimacy. In developing autonomy I set myself towards achieving my dreams and ambitions. In developing intimacy, I allow those close to me to see and know me as I really am.

4. Being willing to say clearly who I am and who I want to be while others are trying to tell me who I am and who I should be.

5. Staying in touch with others while, and even though, there is tension and disagreement.

6. Being able to declare clearly what I need and requesting help from others without imposing my needs upon them.

7. Being able to understand what needs I can and cannot meet in my own life and in the lives of others.

8. Understanding that I am called to be distinct (separate) from others, without being distant from others.

9. Understanding that I am responsible to others but not responsible for others .

10. Growing in the ability to live from the sane, thinking and creative person I am, who can perceive possibilities and chase dreams and ambitions without hurting people in the process.

11. Growing in the ability to detect where controlling emotions and highly reactive behavior have directed my life, then, opting for better and more purposeful growth born of creative thinking.

12. Deciding never to use another person for my own ends and to be honest with myself about this when I see myself falling into such patterns.

13. Seeing my life as a whole, a complete unit, and not as compartmentalized, unrelated segments.

14. Making no heroes; taking no victims.

15. Giving up the search for the arrival of a Knight in Shining Armour who will save me from the beautiful struggles and possibilities presented in everyday living.

To differentiate is to provide a platform for maximum growth and personal development for everyone in your circle of influence. It means being able to calmly reflect on a conflicted interaction afterward, realizing your own role in it, and then choosing a different response for the future. Not to differentiate is to fuse (the failure to become a separate person) with others and to place responsibility on others (or on situations, predicaments, and hurdles) for the way in which our lives develop.

These widely accepted theory were developed by Murray Bowen, M.D. in the late 1940's and early 1950's, when he was a psychiatrist at the Menninger Clinic. After his time at Menninger's, he moved to the National Institute of Mental Health, then to Georgetown University Medical Center and finally established the Georgetown Family Center in Washington, D.C.

Bowen's therapy is a process of increasing one's differentiation or ability to balance automatic reactivity and subjectivity with a factual view of oneself and others.





www.bowentheoryacademy.org/6.html

www.difficultrelationships.com/2006/03/25/bowen-differentiation/

www.psychpage.com/learning/library/counseling/bowen.html

looking at it this way, do any of those in the list speak to your relationship or the nature of the fights we, as partners, were involved in?

[Recovering480]

Once a week, sometimes more. Sometimes less.  Things would be fine.  Some nights, I wouldnt see her and we'd be texting.  Next thing I know she's freaking out over something she saw on Facebook.  I would try to defend myself, explain myself.  She would shut it down and say she was over it and stop responding.

She drinks a lot.  Sometimes I could see her change.  Then she'd lash out and make some hurtful comment about anything.  If I had been drinking too, I'd respond and BOOM.  Most of the time, I kept my mouth shut. It would drive her crazy because evidently I would sigh or "roll my eyes" and she would keep getting mad.

[kc sunshine]

Yeah, even if my ex had one drink it would greatly increase the chances of a fight/dysregulation. And I wasn't so aware of it, but one of her exes before me notes that different kinds of alcohol would have different kinds of effects (gin being particularly bad). Did you all notice this too?

[Recovering480]

No, she's a wine drinker.  But also drinks beer. Whisky. Vodka.  It all resulted in the same behavior.  Two weeks ago I had an upset stomach and we were visiting my folks. I had three drinks so I was able to sit and watch.

Wow.

How I did I not notice this before? Oh, because I was usually drinking too.

The times she sent the real sweet texts (undying love, etc.), I know she was drinking.

It made me realize how much I was drinking with her.  I drank more when I was dating her than I ever have.  If anything, this break has helped me with that and curb some nasty behavior.

She really brought out the worst in me. Even the times I was biting my tongue, I was reacting and feeling in ways that were beyond me.

[Curiously1]

We would have minor arguments daily or every second day or so. Depends. But frequently no doubt.

[unicorn2014]

To the mod, the first link, doesn't work.

www.difficultrelationships.com/2006/03/25/bowen-differentiation/

Also, if our therapist has counseled us to leave our parents in the past due to abuse, in other words we are going to a dry well to get water, do you recommend another form of psychology to learn about?

[hurting300]

I know this sounds weird. But she didn't start the arguments I did. I was the one who started them for obvious reasons.

[Curiously1]

I know this sounds weird. But she didn't start the arguments I did. I was the one who started them for obvious reasons.

Don't worry I normally brought things up and that would start the argument so it looked as if I caused the fights. Especially if she chose to ignore me completely or pretend issues did not exist within the relationship or that they were too "trivial" to even discuss. I needed proper communication from her and she liked to shut me down. She even told me at one point she was conditioning me but I continued to confront her. She said she treated me that way to discourage me from discussing trivial things with her (things she does not care about but were important to me) and felt that yes, shutting me down was the best way to solve our relationship problems.

[taty1124]

Every other day or when she "didn't feel good." Those three little words were my cue that she was about to begin the rage and I had to get ready to contain the beast.

[Fr4nz]

I fought with my ex about once every 1-2 weeks, depending on her dysregulation cycles -- there were definitely cycles of tranquillity and angriness from her side!

Mind that this is a lot, since I had a medium distance relationship with her, so we had the chance to see each other mostly only during the weekends (friday-monday).

When we had the opportunity to stay togheter for whole weeks (let's say, up to one month), the rate of fights was definitely higher (once every 3 days).

She was definitely an untiring drama queen.