Trying to set boundaries

[Dad50]

My partner with BPD and I have been together for 5 years. Except for a really bad 9 months where we tried to live together, we each have our own home. I have two children who are with me 5 days a week, and my partner has one child full time.

During the five days when my children are with their mom I stay at my partners house.  At one point, when I was was taking night classes, I tried saying I might spend one night at my own house, after my late night class, but she insisted I still stay over with her.

The issue comes with the five days that my kids are with me. 3 weekdays and the weekend. For five+  years I have gone over to her house and done activities with her 3 times a day, even when it was during the times when I am technically at my house. We would go to the gym in the morning, do some midday activity, and then go over at nighttime to watch a show or hang out.

It feels exhausting. I am never at home. I have no time for my kids. I feel like I am runnning frazzled so she knows she is cared for, but three times a day seems too much and I cannot keep it up anymore.

I have asked that maybe during the weekdays when I am at my house, we only get together once a day. Her immediate response is that I must love the kids more because I want to be home instead of with her. Then she says there will be a slippery slope if I don't spend the evenings at her house. I have finally been firm, and two weeks ago spent both Monday and Tuesday night at my house just resting. We still got together during the day, so I gave her time. Then last week, with the boundary being set that we can hang out on those days but I want some time to myself at night she continued to push for me to come over for a third time during a day when I was at home.

Two things, it feels like these are reasonable boundaries. I mean, i am over there full time when I don't have my kids and still make time for her every day when I am at home.

Secondly, how do I remain firm or explain these boundaries and stick to them?

Thanks

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

You don’t need to explain your boundaries or try to get permission from her.

“I’m exhausted. I need X amount of time at home. I will come over to your place on Xday.”

Do not JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain).

This is how you uphold your boundaries.

[Dad50]

Thanks. It is so hard not to want to and try to explain that some time apart would actually be healthy for our relationship. This relentless need to spend every minute together actually manifests in some not so great quality when we are together. I know she thinks me spending time away is because I am choosing something or someone else over her. I'm still working on my own relentless need to rescue and explain it is not about choosing someone else over her. She thinks when I spend time at my house I am choosing my kids over her, but disregards the countless hours I spend with her trying to show her she is centered. I have to just accept that it will never be enough, so trying to "make" her feel happy or content is not my responsibility.

Thaks for your insights.

You don’t need to explain your boundaries or try to get permission from her.

“I’m exhausted. I need X amount of time at home. I will come over to your place on Xday.”

Do not JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain).

This is how you uphold your boundaries.

[GaGrl]

It is so very tempting to think that, if you only explain it clearly and rationally, your pwBPD will underdtand. But they are simply not wired for logic. Their emotions drive any position they take.

[babyducks]

hello Dad50

Her immediate response is that I must love the kids more because I want to be home instead of with her.

I had a similar experience and almost the exact same thing said to me.    It was a difficult one to cope with because as GaGrl mentioned, it so NOT rooted in logic.

My then partner now Ex, was convinced there was some kind of contest,... where I cared for other people more than her. and she believed I needed to spend every moment at her  side caring for her.    If I didn't do that she raged in truly titanic proportions.    it was draining and exhausting.    I remember being grateful for some of our arguments because then I could go home and get some sleep.

Secondly, how do I remain firm or explain these boundaries and stick to them?

the communication skills you need to be in a relationship with a pwBPD are different than the communication skills you would use in other relationships.    You need A+++ communication skills with your pwBPD.   There are tools and skills here that you can learn that help.  These tools put a lot of responsibility of the us to bridge the communication/emotional inadequacy that typically happens in any discussion.   

You can start reading about them here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=69272.0

Marsha Linehan came up with DEARMAN as a communication tool.

D.E.A.R.M.A.N. - Marsha Linehan, MD published the DEARMAN in 1993 as part of her DBT training manual.
 
• D= Describe the current situation. Tell the person exactly what you are reacting to. Stick to the facts.
• E= Express your feelings and opinions about the situation.
• A= Assert yourself by asking for what you want or by saying no clearly.
• R= Reinforce the reward to the person ahead of time. Tell the person the positive effects of getting what you want or need. Help the person feel good ahead of time for doing what you want.
• M= Mindfully keep your focus on your objectives. Maintain your position. Don’t be distracted.
• A= Appear confident. Use a confident voice tone and physical manner; make good eye contact. No stammering, whispering, staring at the floor, retreating, saying “I’m not sure,” etc.
• N= Negotiate by being willing to give to get. Offer and ask for alternative solutions to the problem. What am I willing to “settle for” or “give up” in order to gain what I want in the situation?

I remember being surprised by how many words it took to communicate with my EX.    what I naively thought were simple conversations often took 45 minutes to get through.    my experience was that I was better at SET (support empathy truth) statements because they fit more naturally into my conversational style.  anything that we discussed usually went better if I remembered to use SET.

what do you think?

'ducks 

[Dad50]

That;'s the toughest part. They can't seem to understand that I can be a dad and a partner. And it is exhausting because I can do 100 things for my partner, but if I do 1 thing for someone else or my kids it is immediately "what about me". They forget the 100 things, and even magnify the one thing.

How did you finally get the courage to leave your ex. I am just plain scared because I have tried to leave a dozen times. Even when I try to go no contact she finds a different phone number to text from, or a different e-mail to use if I have blocked one. It is so relentless and I eventually cave. I am scared of the intensity and need for revenge that I know will come. "Getting even" is something she even says she has to do if someone wrongs her and I know the getting even will be bad, so I just go back. I've broken up with and been broken up with people in the past, and it is sad, but I'm just used to people accepting it, not saying no.

hello Dad50

I had a similar experience and almost the exact same thing said to me.    It was a difficult one to cope with because as GaGrl mentioned, it so NOT rooted in logic.

My then partner now Ex, was convinced there was some kind of contest,... where I cared for other people more than her. and she believed I needed to spend every moment at her  side caring for her.    If I didn't do that she raged in truly titanic proportions.    it was draining and exhausting.    I remember being grateful for some of our arguments because then I could go home and get some sleep.


the communication skills you need to be in a relationship with a pwBPD are different than the communication skills you would use in other relationships.    You need A+++ communication skills with your pwBPD.   There are tools and skills here that you can learn that help.  These tools put a lot of responsibility of the us to bridge the communication/emotional inadequacy that typically happens in any discussion.   

You can start reading about them here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=69272.0

Marsha Linehan came up with DEARMAN as a communication tool.

I remember being surprised by how many words it took to communicate with my EX.    what I naively thought were simple conversations often took 45 minutes to get through.    my experience was that I was better at SET (support empathy truth) statements because they fit more naturally into my conversational style.  anything that we discussed usually went better if I remembered to use SET.

what do you think?

'ducks 

[once removed]

How did you finally get the courage to leave your ex. I am just plain scared because I have tried to leave a dozen times. Even when I try to go no contact she finds a different phone number to text from, or a different e-mail to use if I have blocked one. It is so relentless and I eventually cave. I am scared of the intensity and need for revenge that I know will come. "Getting even" is something she even says she has to do if someone wrongs her and I know the getting even will be bad, so I just go back. I've broken up with and been broken up with people in the past, and it is sad, but I'm just used to people accepting it, not saying no.

your relationship is doomed with this approach/attitude.

multiple makeup/breakup cycles are a relationship killer, for one. conflict just becomes entrenched. "drawing a line" becomes meaningless. trust doesnt exist.

you cannot use a concept like boundaries as a means to mitigate your relationship, or to solve a particular conflict. boundaries are an extension of our values - something we live. if you have broken up with someone a dozen times, there are no boundaries, its a meaningless concept.

i say that with no judgment, just to impress it upon you, and to suggest that there is more going on here keeping you in the relationship, perhaps some healthy, some unhealthy. i used breakups and breakup threats as a way to try to control the turbulence of my relationship too. its really like digging a hole even deeper. truth be told, i really was pretty unhappy a lot of the time, and clearly, so are you. but there is probably more keeping you in the relationship than just the fear of what she may do to retaliate.

They can't seem to understand that I can be a dad and a partner

she will almost certainly always struggle with this on some level. our loved ones struggle, mightily, with not being the center of our attention. it strikes at deep seated fears that were there long before us.

in terms of conflict resolution (trying to better your relationship) i would point to the fact that you are really talking about blending a family, and that is a very challenging thing to do, whether bpd is involved or not. but that is ultimately the way to approach it. it wont be easy; it may even at this point, be impossible, but thats where you start.

the more involved she is (generally speaking but also in terms of decision making), the more she feels like she has a say, the more she feels prioritized, the more secure your loved one can feel in the relationship, and the more secure the relationship can be. its not a cure all, and probably more of a long term, big picture kind of thing. for example, some couples fight a lot, more than average, but they resolve their conflict (its not a battle of the same old resentments that build and build), and have a healthy relationship.  

its not you convincing her, or her convincing you. its learning how to resolve the conflict together, or accepting that the conflict is intractable.

[Dad50]

Yep, you are right. The constant threats of breakup and so on are not healthy, and just part of what I am trying to change. I have to find a different way or none of this will be okay.

your relationship is doomed with this approach/attitude.

multiple makeup/breakup cycles are a relationship killer, for one. conflict just becomes entrenched. "drawing a line" becomes meaningless. trust doesnt exist.

you cannot use a concept like boundaries as a means to mitigate your relationship, or to solve a particular conflict. boundaries are an extension of our values - something we live. if you have broken up with someone a dozen times, there are no boundaries, its a meaningless concept.

i say that with no judgment, just to impress it upon you, and to suggest that there is more going on here keeping you in the relationship, perhaps some healthy, some unhealthy. i used breakups and breakup threats as a way to try to control the turbulence of my relationship too. its really like digging a hole even deeper. truth be told, i really was pretty unhappy a lot of the time, and clearly, so are you. but there is probably more keeping you in the relationship than just the fear of what she may do to retaliate.

she will almost certainly always struggle with this on some level. our loved ones struggle, mightily, with not being the center of our attention. it strikes at deep seated fears that were there long before us.

in terms of conflict resolution (trying to better your relationship) i would point to the fact that you are really talking about blending a family, and that is a very challenging thing to do, whether bpd is involved or not. but that is ultimately the way to approach it. it wont be easy; it may even at this point, be impossible, but thats where you start.

the more involved she is (generally speaking but also in terms of decision making), the more she feels like she has a say, the more she feels prioritized, the more secure your loved one can feel in the relationship, and the more secure the relationship can be. its not a cure all, and probably more of a long term, big picture kind of thing. for example, some couples fight a lot, more than average, but they resolve their conflict (its not a battle of the same old resentments that build and build), and have a healthy relationship.  

its not you convincing her, or her convincing you. its learning how to resolve the conflict together, or accepting that the conflict is intractable.

[babyducks]

How did you finally get the courage to leave your ex. I am just plain scared because I have tried to leave a dozen times. Even when I try to go no contact she finds a different phone number to text from, or a different e-mail to use if I have blocked one. It is so relentless and I eventually cave. I am scared of the intensity and need for revenge that I know will come. "Getting even" is something she even says she has to do if someone wrongs her and I know the getting even will be bad, so I just go back. I've broken up with and been broken up with people in the past, and it is sad, but I'm just used to people accepting it, not saying no.

I didn't actually end my relationship, Dad50.   My Ex did.    She got upset about me not paying enough attention to her, not caring for her enough and said "this isn't working".    and I ... instead of picking up that argument ... said Okay.    I think she expected me to react differently.    When she said "you didn't do what I wanted ... you didn't give me the right present... blah blah blah".    I said Yep and left.

I did think seriously about trying to mend the relationship.    and then decided to let it play its course.    my Ex was impulsive in ways that were usually destructive.   so she basically dismantled the relationship with out me doing a thing.    I put no energy into the outcome.    if you know what I mean.

why do you think you cave under her pressure?    what kind of support would help you hold firm in what you want to do?