School Counseling Check in for D12

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

She turns 12 in two weeks, a 6th grader, close enough.

We referred her to school counseling based upon our daughter's struggles with attention at school. Her self diagnosis as being ADD was a bit concerning for an 11yo. Kaiser referred us to the school.

D12 is a 4.0 student and she's been a table leader, especially for math, since at least 5th grade at the primary school. The teacher and counselor reached out to us to have a meeting this week to discuss issues. I asked if she were alright and the school person said she was OK, this was just a check-in.

Last night, mommy emailed her teacher to say that D expressed that she was overwhelmed and stressed out. Mommy asked is something was going on at school. I picked up our daughter today on early release and asked her about it. D told me that mommy worries, but she also told me that she told her mom that she needed time to do homework, but that mommy told her that they were going to grandma's. They have a cousin. It's a small house and there's no space or peace.

D told me something similar a month ago. That she asked to go directly home from after-school, but that mommy wanted to eat out. D felt that when they got home, it was baths and bedtime and was stressed out.

D would benefit from joining our meeting. Mommy will do it virtually, but I can be in person with D. She's already into covering for her mom, and I'm cognizant of parental alienation. Yet I'm tempted to tell D to be honest: that her mother isn't listening and is invalidating her (and blaming her troubles on mom's imagined issues at school).

I've also thought about emailing or calling her mom to talk about it.

[Turkish]

She turns 12 in two weeks, a 6th grader, close enough.

We referred her to school counseling based upon our daughter's struggles with attention at school. Her self diagnosis as being ADD was a bit concerning for an 11yo. Kaiser referred us to the school.

D12 is a 4.0 student and she's been a table leader, especially for math, since at least 5th grade at the primary school. The teacher and counselor reached out to us to have a meeting this week to discuss issues. I asked if she were alright and the school person said she was OK, this was just a check-in.

Last night, mommy emailed her teacher to say that D expressed that she was overwhelmed and stressed out. Mommy asked is something was going on at school. I picked up our daughter today on early release and asked her about it. D told me that mommy worries, but she also told me that she told her mom that she needed time to do homework, but that mommy told her that they were going to grandma's. They have a cousin. It's a small house and there's no space or peace.

D told me something similar a month ago. That she asked to go directly home from after-school, but that mommy wanted to eat out. D felt that when they got home, it was baths and bedtime and was stressed out.

D would benefit from joining our meeting. Mommy will do it virtually, but I can be in person with D. She's already into covering for her mom, and I'm cognizant of parental alienation. Yet I'm tempted to tell D to be honest: that her mother isn't listening and is invalidating her (and blaming her troubles on mom's imagined issues at school).

I've also thought about emailing or calling her mom to talk about it.

[Notwendy]

Your D sounds like a very bright child. Surely she knows something is going on but probably not what, or in detail- and information shared with her should be age appropriate.

It's about the age where she could benefit from some understanding of her mother's behavior- but I think a counselor would be the one to do that in an age appropriate manner. If you do, it could be triangulation.

She's possibly also experiencing hearing too much from her BPD mother. By my teens, BPD mother would confide in me- and it was not appropriate information.

I recall an incident at the dinner table where I felt emotionally "older" than my mother. I was the same age as your D- 12. I was telling Dad about what I was learning in school. Dad seemed interested in what I was saying. BPD mother began to say things that would direct his attention to her. I thought it was childish. It was a strange feelings.

I was a good student but I also daydreamed a lot- this was a survival behavior- I was able to "tune out" what was going on at home. ADD was not as commonly suggested when I was a child- but I think a teacher would have suggested it. I was inconsistent with turning in homework. They had no idea what was going on at home. I can see why your D might have come up with that idea since it is more common now,  but other issues can appear to look like ADD when they are not.

By my teens, I was "useful" to BPD mother. I could do things around the house. Nothing wrong with teens doing household tasks. The work load wasn't the issue- it wasn't a lot- as BPD mother had household help- but it was a sort of emotional caretaker role. BPD mother didn't do household tasks. We didn't know what kind of mood she would be in when we came home from school. Your D may be experiencing parentification.

It's good that your D is a strong student. Overall, I was as well. School was a source of affirmation. Your D also has you. At the time for me, BPD mother was confiding in me. I think if Dad took me aside and told me the truth, it might be confusing to have both parents do that. I think - and you know your D best- it may be that she needs her own counselor to tell her.

I think it's a good idea for the meeting to go as planned with both parents and hear what the counselor has to say. After hearing what the counselor says, you might want to have your own meeting with them without your ex- meet as adults. Then you can decide from there what the best next step for your D is.

[ForeverDad]

When my family court got a new and better judge, they updated a lot of online guidelines.  I was surprised the guidelines weren't obligatory.  No wonder my ex got away with so much.

Back to topic.  The new guidelines, which never mentioned mental illness impacts, grouped children into three age groups.  The youngest up to three years were to have frequent parental exchanges. The elementary ages would do best with equal time, more or less, so the 2-2-3 schedule was advised.  As children reached their teen years it could switch to alternate weeks but also it noted that in those years the kids would do well with a "home base" with less time with the other parent.

So, is it time to morph the parenting schedule toward your children having a home base with you?  Just a thought to ponder.

When my son was nearly 12 court ruled that ex's poor behaviors (disparagement) merited me getting majority time.  School issues were also revealed and that must have weighed heavily on the magistrate's mind since my majority time was only ordered during the school year.  Summers remained with the 2-2-3 schedule.  It puzzled me, I had been disparaged year-round, it was like school had more import than me.

[Pook075]

I've also thought about emailing or calling her mom to talk about it.

I'm freshly divorced and my two daughters are young adults, but we still have these conversations since my oldest is BPD like her mom.  The approach I've taken more recently is telling my ex that our kid is struggling with (whatever) and asking the ex what she thinks we should do about it.  Sometimes the problems are because of the ex but I don't say that...I just state that "Our daughter is going through this and wanted to get your advice on how to help her."

By including my ex and validating her opinions, these conversations go so smoothly I'm almost shocked.  And if your ex paints your child white, all the better since she'll want to participate in finding solutions.  Because here's the thing, if she can go to the kid and make things better, then she's the hero and you're just the deadbeat dad who has to rely on her for everything.  And that's fine, let her believe whatever she wants if the kid is getting what's needed.

Leading with blame has had the opposite effect though, so tread lightly there.  Humility is the path- I hope that helps!

[Turkish]

I hear what you're saying... Wisemind.

[Turkish]

I did WFH today since we had a 130PM meeting with the school for D. Mommy called me about 0930 when I was walking the dog and talking to a neighbor, a 73yo grandma who's spritely for her age and looks 10 years younger. I put it on speaker and the neighbor listened.

Mommy has had trouble with D's defiance. Since I had them last weekend, she asked me if I'd said things to D or talked about mommy to the friends in the valley we visited this past weekend. No. Her name didn't come up. We talked for a while and I told her that D wasn't perfect at my home either, aggro with her brother and sometimes me.  I didn't say "I felt the need to call you because I dealt with it." I also ran into the mother of one of D's friends at 7-11 in the morning. 12 year old girls being defiant isn't out of the norm. We shared stories for about 20 minutes.

I picked up D and we had the virtual meeting. D was shy so I turned off the camera, mostly. D is a 4.0 student. She has concentration issues. I encouraged her to speak up so adults didn't make decisions for her. Mommy went on about ADHD, a self diagnosis, and dyslexia, and here I told D to speak up: she didn't feel that she had that anymore.

It ended with me directing the group to postpone any evaluations until August. 504 and an IEP were discussed. Really? We wasted school resources for an IEP evaluation for our son who is diagnosed with ASD1. It wasn't needed. As S14 says, "I'm just a normal kid!"

D also said in the session that the only people that she trusted were me and our dog. *sigh*

I've been putting up with their mom's blame for a decade. And she used to tell me, "the kids defend you!" So she was the one talking smack about me to them. I'm tired of it, but I suppose 4 more years I can make it.

[Notwendy]

Teachers also reported I didn't always pay attention in school but I don't have ADD. I think my BPD mother would have been happy with someone labelling me- rather than wonder if it had anything to do with the situation at home.

I think it's good that your D as a 4.0. It's a source of affirmation for her. It's also a source of identity for BPD mother. The few times we might have said something about our home life were dismissed as "it can't be that bad- look how you kids turned out". Yes, I was the kid who smiled at school, seemed happy- nobody had a clue. But it also was because school was an emotionally safe and happy place for us- home was not.

On the other hand, be aware of perfectionism. If having a 4.0 is the main affirmation, what happens if she ever makes a B? Chances are- as her schoolwork becomes more challenging- she may find herself in a situation where she doesn't get an A. Of course, a GPA isn't the only aspect of a person- it doesn't define her- but if it's her main source of affirmation, that "B" could be a difficult situation for her.

My teen years with BPD mother were difficult. Teen agers can be challenging to even the best of parents. I think there's a difference between the kind of behaviors one does not tolerate and the "normal" teen behaviors. For my BPD mother, event a small transgression could cause her to react. I think we have to take a perspective - if the basics are there- the child is making good grades, has friends, isn't doing destructive or dangerous behaviors- then the occasional teen moodiness is just part of the age.

[Turkish]

I forgot to mention that it was agreed by all to put her into advanced math which is termed AP though it isn't college credit at this age.  It's the calculus path into high school and in 7th grade, they do a summer session to start to teach 7th/8th early, and freshman algebra in 8th. Her brother has been in that program so hopefully this will help challenge her. Her brother will do sophomore math next year in 9th. S14 was Mr. Calculator in primary school. Only last year did I realize that D has some talent as well. Must be a recessive gene as neither me nor mommy is good at math. 

[ForeverDad]

My one claim to school fame was that in 9th grade I was the best of two classes of Plane Geometry, as it was then known.  I still have the school medal somewhere.

Looking back over the decades I now realize I was good with patterns... geometry and its theorems, sines, cosines and tangents.  Also spelling and in 10th grade Spanish II for verb conjugation.  I recall one test I only missed an accent mark, the teacher graded on a curve based on the best score, mine was 201.5 out of a possible 202, the other kids were so upset!

Anyway, back to math... With Algebra 1 & 2 I was a B student.  I never took Calculus since I switched to Electronics in the final two years of high school.  So I borrowed a Calculus volume but I got lost about 20 pages in.  Skimming was not enough for that tome.

I can feel for your daughter.  I recall one girl in one of my classes years later lamented to me that she had been so upset, she would study and study then I'd breeze into class like it was nothing hard.  I recall that I never boasted.

But History was so dull, dates and places.  Also very upsetting since even so I worked hard there too.  Only twice did I ever get a D in the final semester exams two years in a row.  I was stunned that my competition was future cosmeticians, auto body and auto mechanics.  Worse, school was on summer break and I had no one to complain to.  Now that was more distressing than anything else.

Another difference between me then and me now.  In English I struggled with 'composition'.  My mind would draw a blank.  Now, oh my, you can't stop me!

[Turkish]

This isn't getting better. Wednesday was our switch day so I had them last night. Mommy now has them until Monday morning.

D12 seemed OK, but when we were leaving for a track meet for S14 this afternoon, D12 didn't want to go. She refused to put on her shoes. We had to get him to his meet. We were running late. I put her shoes on the car and was in the verge of carrying her to the car but she finally walked. She cried silent tears on the way, running down her face.

She told me that she wanted to just stay with me that she was afraid of mommy and her anger. She bought up past incidences (like where D then 13 accidentally slapped her and she punched the wall instead of him) and yelling at both of them... I'm not sure how often this happens. D12 brought up an event from 2 years ago where she hit them both. I asked her if there were anything recent. No. The body keeps the score 

S14 seems OK, I asked him. Ear buds and Spotify likely help. I'm not sure how to proceed. This isn't Canada where she can decide at 12 where to live. This isn't going to get better either.

I asked her if she thought that family counseling would help and she said yes, after a pause. We went through this 2 years ago. Mommy joined one meeting in person, and one more virtually, but found excuses (work) not to attend 3 final sessions.

Fix the kid. My mom did this to me, abandoning me in family counseling. My ex also did this to me. I'm not sure how to approach this... an email to her mom to start? Or let it more blow up?

D12 asked me about anger. If told her that mommy and I grew up in angry households, smacking for me and La Chancla (Mexican mom meme where they throw shoes at their kids)  for her. I didn't mention her violent grandpa.

I felt kind of helpless when I was wiping away her silent tears in traffic on our way to the meet.

[kells76]

 

We're in it right now too. I hear you about wanting to fix it but feeling so helpless. It's good that she let you carry her and be with her while she cried.

I wish I could fix it for you, too.

[SinisterComplex]

This isn't getting better. Wednesday was our switch day so I had them last night. Mommy now has them until Monday morning.

D12 seemed OK, but when we were leaving for a track meet for S14 this afternoon, D12 didn't want to go. She refused to put on her shoes. We had to get him to his meet. We were running late. I put her shoes on the car and was in the verge of carrying her to the car but she finally walked. She cried silent tears on the way, running down her face.

She told me that she wanted to just stay with me that she was afraid of mommy and her anger. She bought up past incidences (like where D then 13 accidentally slapped her and she punched the wall instead of him) and yelling at both of them... I'm not sure how often this happens. D12 brought up an event from 2 years ago where she hit them both. I asked her if there were anything recent. No. The body keeps the score 

S14 seems OK, I asked him. Ear buds and Spotify likely help. I'm not sure how to proceed. This isn't Canada where she can decide at 12 where to live. This isn't going to get better either.

I asked her if she thought that family counseling would help and she said yes, after a pause. We went through this 2 years ago. Mommy joined one meeting in person, and one more virtually, but found excuses (work) not to attend 3 final sessions.

Fix the kid. My mom did this to me, abandoning me in family counseling. My ex also did this to me. I'm not sure how to approach this... an email to her mom to start? Or let it more blow up?

D12 asked me about anger. If told her that mommy and I grew up in angry households, smacking for me and La Chancla (Mexican mom meme where they throw shoes at their kids)  for her. I didn't mention her violent grandpa.

I felt kind of helpless when I was wiping away her silent tears in traffic on our way to the meet.

State laws differ in every state of course, but at this point I think would angle for full custody. With the ages of your children their words actually become a lot more useful in court. In due time if this persists you know quite well your ex will F and you will get the kids if you want to go that route. However you go about your business and how you want to handle things is of course your business and I support you regardless.

I helped coach a close friend of mine to getting 50/50 so no child support and told him take it for now. As I explained to him you have no choice, but to play the long game and let the ex make the mistakes you know she will inevitably make, but when she does make the mistake pull no punches and go for the gusto because at the heart of it is what is best for the children and that is not being with someone with anger/rage issues and turbulent behavior.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-