Do BPD's lie to get what they want?

[Struggler123]

My ex BPD was very keen on marriage, and she kept pushing for it. I wouldn't budge, and eventually this let to the downfall of our relationship. A few days after, she said she was getting an arrange marriage and she was very happy with the guy, she would tell me about her outfit and how its 2 months from now e.tc. I eventually got mad, and I was like I don't even want to be friends with you don't contact me. I know I shouldn't care, but is this some twisted way to get me back?

[Harri]

Hi Struggler.  It is hard to determine what her intent is with telling you those things.  Hearing them must be very painful I'm sure so of course you care.  Good for you for not allowing her to push you in to marriage.

It sounds like getting married was her main priority though.  Do you agree? 

[Speck]

Hello again, Struggler123:

My ex BPD was very keen on marriage, and she kept pushing for it. I wouldn't budge, and eventually, this let to the downfall of our relationship.

I am curious what kept you from entertaining the idea of marriage to your ex? Mine, too, walked out on our relationship when I wouldn't budge. Then, I finally budged, got married, and lived to regret it.

I eventually got mad, and I was like I don't even want to be friends with you don't contact me.

Well, good for you for setting boundaries!

I know I shouldn't care, but is this some twisted way to get me back?

Like Harri says, it's hard to say, but in my experience, childish people sometimes act this way, whether they are afflicted with BPD or not. Could this have been the case?


-Speck

[Struggler123]

Hi Struggler.  It is hard to determine what her intent is with telling you those things.  Hearing them must be very painful I'm sure so of course you care.  Good for you for not allowing her to push you in to marriage.

It sounds like getting married was her main priority though.  Do you agree? 

Hello again, Struggler123:

I am curious what kept you from entertaining the idea of marriage to your ex? Mine, too, walked out on our relationship when I wouldn't budge. Then, I finally budged, got married, and lived to regret it.

Well, good for you for setting boundaries!

Like Harri says, it's hard to say, but in my experience, childish people sometimes act this way, whether they are afflicted with BPD or not. Could this have been the case?


-Speck

Harri, at times I felt like that, but then at other times I really felt like maybe we had a genuine connection. But when the threats started coming in, it got so overwhelming. At times maybe she wanted to get married simply because I was very kind to the behavoir she showed, and she knew that she couldn't act like that in front of a new person.

@Speck- I don't have a set based career yet, I just graduated college and I'm trying to become accomplished in life. I would have liked to work on the relationship aspect, but she was too focused on her needs, and she was trying to get married quickly because of cultural aspects, but I told her that no one was going to force her to marry and no one did. But, she just had no patience. Her idea was if I knew someone for a year, that meant that they are ready for marriage.  That's why in some aspects I feel like as twisted as it is, it could be fabricated, because she knows that it would hurt me, and might push me to the point where I ask her to marry me. And I did question myself, but then I thought if someone can be this manipulative, to force me to be friends with them whether this arranged marriage thing is true or not, means I need to work on myself and strengthen my boundaries.

[bc-man]

Bro,

I don't mean to be rude, be grate grateful you are not in that boat.

I don't think it's some twisted way to get back at you. The BPD patients I met (at counselling, her friends etc) were all very self absorbed. All that mattered to them was how they feel. It could be one of those 'See, I got what I wanted!'

For me it's extremely hard to tell if they lie. Often their perception of what happened is not based on facts but on how it made them feel. I was accused of imprisoning my partner because I locked the front door one morning when I left for work. Fact was I locked the front door, her emotion was 'He's locking me out (in?)' and that emotion turned to (her) fact.

[Cromwell]

I dont know if they lie more than anyone else but I often found a sort of autistic related theme to things my ex would say, especially when talking so openly about her past relationships in great detail, things that just arent appropiate when your with someone as well as showing old pictures. Its almost as if I really should be interested and showing some sort of, I dont know? appreciation or complimenting her on what a good job she did to attract those types (I was in truth deeply shocked). So im not sure if this is to make you jealous or some mind game, but chances are it is just that non caring or non thinking about your emotions when she is talking about her life choices.

self centred basically.

[Struggler123]

I dont know if they lie more than anyone else but I often found a sort of autistic related theme to things my ex would say, especially when talking so openly about her past relationships in great detail, things that just arent appropiate when your with someone as well as showing old pictures. Its almost as if I really should be interested and showing some sort of, I dont know? appreciation or complimenting her on what a good job she did to attract those types (I was in truth deeply shocked). So im not sure if this is to make you jealous or some mind game, but chances are it is just that non caring or non thinking about your emotions when she is talking about her life choices.

self centred basically.

The problem is we are so focused on the words we forget that, they feel one thing one second and another the next. I remember my ex told me she loves me and that no one could love her for a lifetime, and now shes getting an arrange marriage, to which she specifically said yes to. Her excuse, she was in a dark place and she took the first thing that was thrown at her. So, I stopped trying to figure out the existence of this guy, and began focusing on myself. It's about to be 3 days, and the grind continues. As hard as it is to admit it, today she loves me tomorrow she won't, theres no permanence and thats something I have to accept. Even though I still hear her voice telling me she will never love someone as much as me, and shes just doing this because hes a nice guy, but she would throw it all away if I asked her to marry me. Considering everything, if its this complicated before marriage, what happens in marriage?

[Harri]

Hi Struggler.

I did not mean to imply earlier that her feelings for you are not real.  I think they are, all of her feelings.  The problem is they change on a dime. 

You are exactly right that feelings = facts for pwBPD.  Sometimes that leaves us floundering and the only thing we have to really look at is how their behaviors, based on these fleeting feelings and changing facts of theirs, affect us.

Marriage solves none of this.  When you consider that BPD is a disorder of emotional regulation and that the dysregulation increase as intimacy increases, you are correct to question what would happen once married.

[Struggler123]

Hi Struggler.

I did not mean to imply earlier that her feelings for you are not real.  I think they are, all of her feelings.  The problem is they change on a dime. 

That's what hurts the most is that if these feelings were permanent, it would be so much easier to understand the complexity, in no way do I blame her at all don't get me wrong. She's hurting via BPD and its as tough as it can be. But like they say before trying to clean up the mess in someone else's yard, you must clean up the mess in your backyard. The only reason I question the whole marriage thing is because for her this supposedly new arrange marriage, can easily be broken at any time, and she expects me to be the white shining knight to rescue her. I want to believe her when she says she changed for me, but she still keeps in contact with her ex, which I found strange at first, but till this day, I never questioned her. She used to say "we just check up on each other every now and then." That was the thing, I felt like if I stayed with friends with her while shes holding my hand, telling me she loves me and that the marriage is just a requirement that shes fulfilling for society. I just felt like if she can do that to him, what happens if her feelings for me change in the moment of a dime, and she dumps me away, when I accept all her needs. Thoughts?

[Harri]

Hi again Struggler. 

You are asking some good questions.  One thing I want to say is that yes, she has a disorder and it is very difficult, but that does not mean she is not responsible for her actions or the hurts she has caused.  Your compassion is wonderful and speaks to the kind of person you are. 

That's what hurts the most is that if these feelings were permanent, it would be so much easier to understand the complexity... .

Yes, permanency would simplify understanding.  But the very instability is permanent too in a sense.  It messes with your mind more though especially because the intermittent reinforcement of positive things can keep you attached hoping for more of for that part of her to return.  The thing is though, that instability is what is.  It is permanent.  Can you tolerate that roller coaster ride of *your* emotions? 

She is who she is and history has shown how she reacts.  I am not pointing this out to hurt you but to maybe give a different less hurtful perspective   That what seems so fleeting and therefore hurtful is in itself permanent (to the extent that she does not recognize she has an issue and is not in therapy for it).

[Struggler123]

 But the very instability is permanent too in a sense.  It messes with your mind more though especially because the intermittent reinforcement of positive things can keep you attached hoping for more of for that part of her to return.  The thing is though, that instability is what is.  It is permanent.  Can you tolerate that roller coaster ride of *your* emotions? 

She is who she is and history has shown how she reacts.  I am not pointing this out to hurt you but to maybe give a different less hurtful perspective   That what seems so fleeting and therefore hurtful is in itself permanent (to the extent that she does not recognize she has an issue and is not in therapy for it).

Honestly, I am really grateful to people like you, that for the first time made me feel so much better. That really hit me, the truth is, its the positive aspects that kept me longing for more and more. Although I'll admit, yes it could have been worse had she been more aggressive but, I never let her reach that stage because I would just walk away and give her time to cool off. I remember once I was in the car with her, and she told me so make up your mind, are you going to do anything about us or are you just going to go back and not make a commitment. She cried and told me that i'm horrible, and I can't do anything right and that she made so many sacrifices for me, and all I had to do was talk to her parents and kneel on one knee. And then I remember asking her, if I tell you to wait for me, how much time will you give me so I can give my board exams, and she was like 6 months, and then after 6 months we'll get engaged, and then after that we'll get married. I was like, i'm sorry but I can't make such a big commitment. And she got really upset, told me that no guy would do this and im a loser, and that eventually ill have my career but not have her, and then when I said nothing and got upset. She was like okay so lets go bowling... and at that moment I was like i'm sorry but I don't want to go anywhere... .and I felt so bad saying that but I was hurt thinking how her emotions can swing so much. I'm still having a tough time letting go, but I think after I told her to block me so I can be myself again, got through to her and so she did. It was just hard to have her call and text and when I wouldn't respond, eventually I'd cave in. This is gonna sound weird but sometimes, I really wish that these BPD symptoms were untrue, and I really was making all of this stuff up.

[Harri]

I am glad you feel better Struggler.  Remember healing is a process so there will be good days and bad days but they all add up together and lead to healing.

Intermittent reinforcement is powerful and the resultant conditioning can be very hard to break so don't get down if you find yourself still wanting her back etc.  it happens and is even normal in a sense.  Certainly it is to be expected.

Is there any reason you can't block her on your phone and social media?  Having her do so is okay but it is better for you to do it yourself.  Remember, she changes her mind and emotions on a dime.  Do not put your emotional safety in the hands of someone else and certainly not in the hands of someone who has proven themselves to be incapable of acting responsibly in such areas. 

In reading your last post I was struck by how aware you are of your own feelings and your ability to see your own needs in the face of her pressure.  That is excellent and something a lot of us do not have and/or have had to fight for.  That is a strength for sure. 

There is nothing weird with any part of what you wrote.  Not even a little bit.  So many on this board can relate.  What you are experiencing are normal human emotions.  Nothing weird there!

[Struggler123]

I am glad you feel better Struggler.  Remember healing is a process so there will be good days and bad days but they all add up together and lead to healing.

Intermittent reinforcement is powerful and the resultant conditioning can be very hard to break so don't get down if you find yourself still wanting her back etc.  it happens and is even normal in a sense.  Certainly it is to be expected.

Is there any reason you can't block her on your phone and social media?  Having her do so is okay but it is better for you to do it yourself.  Remember, she changes her mind and emotions on a dime.  Do not put your emotional safety in the hands of someone else and certainly not in the hands of someone who has proven themselves to be incapable of acting responsibly in such areas. 

In reading your last post I was struck by how aware you are of your own feelings and your ability to see your own needs in the face of her pressure.  That is excellent and something a lot of us do not have and/or have had to fight for.  That is a strength for sure. 

There is nothing weird with any part of what you wrote.  Not even a little bit.  So many on this board can relate.  What you are experiencing are normal human emotions.  Nothing weird there!

Thank you so much for listening to me. Honestly there are days where I miss her the most but I feel like sometimes we have to let go of the things we cant change. The reason I havent blocked her is because I feel like deep somewhere I promised her I would never block her, and even when I do I feel guilty for it, because it gives the impression that i’m mad. My best day of healing will be when she tries to contact me and instead of me reading the message I simply hit delete. I thought that by her supposedly feeling like shes the one that dumped me she won’t feel the need to reconnect, cause I know if I block her she will reach out to me through friends or someway so I thought it was the logical thing to do. Thank you for understanding how I fee, the members have made me feel welcome. The only reason I was able to pick up on her pressurizing techniqhes was because it was happening for so long, and I remember reading about BPD in psychology. I just dont like to make diagnosis on people, because I always give the benefit of the doubt. To be honest, if she didnt pressure me I wouldve let go of all the other signs. Now I think about it and it makes me remember how the first time we broke up she told me she was at a party and some guy was forcing to kiss her and eventually she let him and I was like how do you think that makes me feel, would you like it if I get tipsy and kiss another girl and then she apologized. But its so hard to understand what goes in their heads. Thoughts?

[Speck]

Hello again, Struggler123:

And I did question myself, but then I thought if someone can be this manipulative, to force me to be friends with them whether this arranged marriage thing is true or not, means I need to work on myself and strengthen my boundaries.

Yes. This is exactly it: Boundaries. I must say, you certainly did your homework when dealing with your ex's insessant need to pressure you into marriage. I know this breakup has been difficult for you to shake, but you definitely know your value, and this has served you well in not allowing someone else to design your future. Well done!

Even so, we're always here if you need to talk.


-Speck

[Struggler123]

Hello again, Struggler123:

Yes. This is exactly it: Boundaries. I must say, you certainly did your homework when dealing with your ex's insessant need to pressure you into marriage. I know this breakup has been difficult for you to shake, but you definitely know your value, and this has served you well in not allowing someone else to design your future. Well done!

Even so, we're always here if you need to talk.


-Speck

It definitely was not easy, because when I didn't budge for marriage, she said yes to the next nice guy. Meanwhile, shes calling me and telling me she loves me, but I was the one that didn't push for marriage so she took this step and I told her I didn't do anything, and just want to be alone. Today was actually the hardest, she posted a picture on snap and instagram, right after I posted something, saying "So its been confirmed, and a ring emoji." and I snapped, here I was thinking about how she would have felt, if I posted something right that, and I deleted her everywhere. Funny part is after that was done, she called me, and at that point it didn't matter anymore, cause nothing she could have said or done, would have made me pick up. I suppose its the next step in healing, when you truly stop caring anymore and I long for that day.

[Speck]

I deleted her everywhere. Funny part is after that was done, she called me, and at that point it didn't matter anymore, cause nothing she could have said or done, would have made me pick up. I suppose its the next step in healing, when you truly stop caring anymore and I long for that day.

It is extremely difficult to detach from someone who suffers from BPD as the level of enmeshment involved in such a relationship is more entangled than a relationship between a Non and a Non. So... .well done on deleting her everywhere.

Step by step, we heal. Keep writing if it helps.


-Speck

[Wicker Man]

I suppose its the next step in healing, when you truly stop caring anymore and I long for that day.

You do not walk alone. 

I look forward to the first day I don't think about her.  When the questions - 'what if', 'why', and perhaps the worst, 'if only' are finally out of my mind and she is out of my heart.

Wicker Man

[Struggler123]

You do not walk alone. 

I look forward to the first day I don't think about her.  When the questions - 'what if', 'why', and perhaps the worst, 'if only' are finally out of my mind and she is out of my heart.

Wicker Man

@Wickerman & @Speck

Sometimes I feel like I have everything under control, other days I keep telling myself it was never gonna work out. But deep down, I always wonder the what if's, I didn't want to take the chance at marriage, and find out that I am more empty then I have ever been. I remember the good times were great, but those times when she broke up with me and the push and pull they were hard. Eventually I became numb to it, at which point we were still together just didn't have a label for it. When she kept asking for that commitment, I couldn't give it to her, and ultimately she moved on to someone else, because he could give her what I couldn't. But I promised myself, that I was going to successful, and theres gonna be a time when shes gonna realize that, if she had the patience to be with me during my struggle in my career, she could've been able to taste the success with me, and even if she doesn't, the best revenge is success.

[Cromwell]

@Wickerman & @Speck

Sometimes I feel like I have everything under control, other days I keep telling myself it was never gonna work out. But deep down, I always wonder the what if's, I didn't want to take the chance at marriage, and find out that I am more empty then I have ever been. I remember the good times were great, but those times when she broke up with me and the push and pull they were hard. Eventually I became numb to it, at which point we were still together just didn't have a label for it. When she kept asking for that commitment, I couldn't give it to her, and ultimately she moved on to someone else, because he could give her what I couldn't. But I promised myself, that I was going to successful, and theres gonna be a time when shes gonna realize that, if she had the patience to be with me during my struggle in my career, she could've been able to taste the success with me, and even if she doesn't, the best revenge is success.

I hear you struggler, I thought the same, but the thing with BPD, eventually when you are totally gone, they forget about you quickly due to object permeance. Its why many people say "i cant believe after all that, he/she is just getting on with their life with not a care in the world", well its because it literally is a case of out-of-sight, out-of-mind.

How long have you been apart from yours now? For me it has been 8 months and I dont think about her much at all, besides coming here to view any interesting posts. The N/C, ive never had to do to anyone in my life to this extent, it was a radical step and it feels just a bit strange to have someone on a daily basis for over 3 years and then just one day cut them out completely, and havent spoken a single word since all this time. I would have thought id see something of her, she does work in the same city and she stalked me before, but this time shes just completely gone as well as any of her friends that i knew. Im just grateful for this, and working towards trying to rebuild my life from it all, I gave up even on revenge because I think she would be too stupid to even understand what she had missed out on, my ex told me her life was like the film "groundhog day", i never understood why she felt that way but with my understanding of BPD I think I do now.

I feel the same as wickerman, I hope to just get to the stage that there are no emotions of her that haunt me and that I hardly at all think of her. Id like to store some of the happy times as nostalgia, but generally I want to get over the intesely hurtful memories and I strongly feel im almost at that stage which im really so happy about because it didnt feel like i ever would in the early months of NC. I understand how you might be feeling now to miss her, it does come and go, but fades as time goes on.

[Struggler123]

I hear you struggler, I thought the same, but the thing with BPD, eventually when you are totally gone, they forget about you quickly due to object permeance. Its why many people say "i cant believe after all that, he/she is just getting on with their life with not a care in the world", well its because it literally is a case of out-of-sight, out-of-mind.

How long have you been apart from yours now? For me it has been 8 months and I dont think about her much at all, besides coming here to view any interesting posts. The N/C, ive never had to do to anyone in my life to this extent, it was a radical step and it feels just a bit strange to have someone on a daily basis for over 3 years and then just one day cut them out completely, and havent spoken a single word since all this time. I would have thought id see something of her, she does work in the same city and she stalked me before, but this time shes just completely gone as well as any of her friends that i knew. Im just grateful for this, and working towards trying to rebuild my life from it all, I gave up even on revenge because I think she would be too stupid to even understand what she had missed out on, my ex told me her life was like the film "groundhog day", i never understood why she felt that way but with my understanding of BPD I think I do now.

I feel the same as wickerman, I hope to just get to the stage that there are no emotions of her that haunt me and that I hardly at all think of her. Id like to store some of the happy times as nostalgia, but generally I want to get over the intesely hurtful memories and I strongly feel im almost at that stage which im really so happy about because it didnt feel like i ever would in the early months of NC. I understand how you might be feeling now to miss her, it does come and go, but fades as time goes on.

We were on and off for 2 years, its been a hectix road. As for the no contact thing, she still wanted to be friends. Her idea was, that its my fault that I didnt commit to her and now this new guy whos giving into all of her needs can. She says she loves me and all those same usual stuff, but when I asked her is there anything i can do and she got quiet and just said, im happy with him when i asked her gave me the courage to finally block her even though I didn’t want to but I didnt want to be reminded everyday. She said that we can be friends but, no friend just suddenly tells you they love you but theyre commiting to someone else. For a long time I blamed myself because with her instability of breaking up I needed time and I needed time for my career. She claims I didnt fight for her and its my fault. i didn’t do what I needed to and she exhausted all her resources. To an extent, I agree she did try but she tried for me to commit to her, she wasn’t willing to stand with me. Its been 12 days since the no contact, but she knows that I’m blocking her and told me the classic line like you deserve better and ill be here when your ready to be friends. To an extent, I have learned to accept this but a part of me always tells me that this isn’t over. I dont know if I made the right decision blocking her and deleting her off social media was a good thing or not. But, at the end when your ex is putting things like its confirmed with a ring and its a picture of her, you dont have much of a choice. Thoughts?

[Cromwell]

We were on and off for 2 years, its been a hectix road. As for the no contact thing, she still wanted to be friends. Her idea was, that its my fault that I didnt commit to her and now this new guy whos giving into all of her needs can. She says she loves me and all those same usual stuff, but when I asked her is there anything i can do and she got quiet and just said, im happy with him when i asked her gave me the courage to finally block her even though I didn’t want to but I didnt want to be reminded everyday. She said that we can be friends but, no friend just suddenly tells you they love you but theyre commiting to someone else. For a long time I blamed myself because with her instability of breaking up I needed time and I needed time for my career. She claims I didnt fight for her and its my fault. i didn’t do what I needed to and she exhausted all her resources. To an extent, I agree she did try but she tried for me to commit to her, she wasn’t willing to stand with me. Its been 12 days since the no contact, but she knows that I’m blocking her and told me the classic line like you deserve better and ill be here when your ready to be friends. To an extent, I have learned to accept this but a part of me always tells me that this isn’t over. I dont know if I made the right decision blocking her and deleting her off social media was a good thing or not. But, at the end when your ex is putting things like its confirmed with a ring and its a picture of her, you dont have much of a choice. Thoughts?

You did the smart thing and the feelings of doing the right thing in blocking her is just going to be because as each day goes on, it really isnt finalised, you havent got closure, and she hasnt helped you get closure (she still wants you as backup plan b). Thats how it comes across, trying to keep you triangulated as the ex lover/still friends, would keep the new guy racing after her demands at the same time as keeping you as a backup. I was triangulated but very aware of it.

Going N/C felt very much the same as the day that I bought my first house and signed the papers. I remember not being able to sleep that night thinking "have I really done the right thing", it is just a form of anxiety or unsureness. It will pass. Just like buying that house was a great move at the time, so ive found that complete nc has got me from a very precarious and unwell state, to back in charge of my life. But I really did throw the baby out with the bath (its a saying we have here, meaning not to just cut something or someone completely out of your life, forgetting the good traits and value in them). I just couldnt do this "we cant be lovers but can still be friends" rubbish either, besides, she was too irresponsible to be a friend, she fitted better in the enemy box and is where she is now, I didnt realise it at the time - sleeping with the enemy - but once I got time to rest and get out of the fog, it is exactly what mines became. One of the biggest revelations I made is that they change entirely with who they are with at any given time. So when she is spending time with this new guy, she will go along with anything he says, mirror him, and if he starts to talk bad about you, she will not go against that.

You might call this someone who is "easily influenced" but its not really as simple as that, it is a complex soup of so many different things going on.

She has made it hard for you to get closure by keeping the door open for you but I think back to your post about your last long talk with her and you managed to get your point across really well. Id bank on all these positive things youve done, your intuition knows this isnt a reliable relationship and you will know her better than anyone here. when you think about how ill a person with BPD is, I cant believe (after the 2 month honeymoon period), a further nearly 3 years in a R/S, when the first antics began I shouldnt have stayed around for more than 5 minutes, but yea, was very heavily hooked in by then, emotionally, then I suppose the next step was isolate me from my family, friends, hobbies, work, then move in for the "check" with marriage, and "check mate" with the kid.

my thoughts are that she has made you feel very uncomfortable and upset to say the least, youve acknowledged that and want (and deserve) better in your life than she can provide (yes it actually is supposed to be a 2 way street). My ex let her guard down a lot by her alcohol use, and I found out secrets when she would start to dysregulate. but if it wasnt for this, she could have manipulated me very easily, and who knows what my life would have ended up when the would eventually have had far more control over it.

If you had concerns already, and fits and starts during 2 years, then I can only but imagine what true colours might reveal themselves from her once she got a ring on her finger. You get used to the NC, I could still in a matter of minutes go and message her and we would be back in contact. I noticed 3 months into NC she didnt block me on any of the social media. i like that i overcame this burden and cauterised her out of my system, my only regret was not being able to far earlier when the  started.

If you can stick to what you have set out to do, it gets easier, but its a very difficult time your going through now, and in comparison to how I did, and from what I see in your posts, your a strong person who just needs time for closure so you can move on to something else in life. and thanks for all your posts to me over this time to as well as best wishes, they do help, and helping others here helped me to realise I wasnt alone in that chapter of my life experience. I hope it helps you too.

[Struggler123]

You did the smart thing and the feelings of doing the right thing in blocking her is just going to be because as each day goes on, it really isnt finalised, you havent got closure, and she hasnt helped you get closure (she still wants you as backup plan b). Thats how it comes across, trying to keep you triangulated as the ex lover/still friends, would keep the new guy racing after her demands at the same time as keeping you as a backup. I was triangulated but very aware of it.

Going N/C felt very much the same as the day that I bought my first house and signed the papers. I remember not being able to sleep that night thinking "have I really done the right thing", it is just a form of anxiety or unsureness. It will pass. Just like buying that house was a great move at the time, so ive found that complete nc has got me from a very precarious and unwell state, to back in charge of my life. But I really did throw the baby out with the bath (its a saying we have here, meaning not to just cut something or someone completely out of your life, forgetting the good traits and value in them). I just couldnt do this "we cant be lovers but can still be friends" rubbish either, besides, she was too irresponsible to be a friend, she fitted better in the enemy box and is where she is now, I didnt realise it at the time - sleeping with the enemy - but once I got time to rest and get out of the fog, it is exactly what mines became. One of the biggest revelations I made is that they change entirely with who they are with at any given time. So when she is spending time with this new guy, she will go along with anything he says, mirror him, and if he starts to talk bad about you, she will not go against that.

You might call this someone who is "easily influenced" but its not really as simple as that, it is a complex soup of so many different things going on.

She has made it hard for you to get closure by keeping the door open for you but I think back to your post about your last long talk with her and you managed to get your point across really well. Id bank on all these positive things youve done, your intuition knows this isnt a reliable relationship and you will know her better than anyone here. when you think about how ill a person with BPD is, I cant believe (after the 2 month honeymoon period), a further nearly 3 years in a R/S, when the first antics began I shouldnt have stayed around for more than 5 minutes, but yea, was very heavily hooked in by then, emotionally, then I suppose the next step was isolate me from my family, friends, hobbies, work, then move in for the "check" with marriage, and "check mate" with the kid.

my thoughts are that she has made you feel very uncomfortable and upset to say the least, youve acknowledged that and want (and deserve) better in your life than she can provide (yes it actually is supposed to be a 2 way street). My ex let her guard down a lot by her alcohol use, and I found out secrets when she would start to dysregulate. but if it wasnt for this, she could have manipulated me very easily, and who knows what my life would have ended up when the would eventually have had far more control over it.

If you had concerns already, and fits and starts during 2 years, then I can only but imagine what true colours might reveal themselves from her once she got a ring on her finger. You get used to the NC, I could still in a matter of minutes go and message her and we would be back in contact. I noticed 3 months into NC she didnt block me on any of the social media. i like that i overcame this burden and cauterised her out of my system, my only regret was not being able to far earlier when the  started.

If you can stick to what you have set out to do, it gets easier, but its a very difficult time your going through now, and in comparison to how I did, and from what I see in your posts, your a strong person who just needs time for closure so you can move on to something else in life. and thanks for all your posts to me over this time to as well as best wishes, they do help, and helping others here helped me to realise I wasnt alone in that chapter of my life experience. I hope it helps you too.

Cromwell,

I really do appreciate your input and kind words. I sometimes feel bad because when I write a lot of my emotions are expressed almost as if its a heatwave coming down. I’m sorry that you were triangulated and thats certainly what I felt like as well. I thought to myself, how would I feel if my “supposedly” finance were talking to her ex, would I be comfortable with that? Knowing the details and how abruptly it ended. I sometimes feel like I really do care more about others then my myself and whether that makes me weird or bad. It doesn’t matter anymore because, my intentions are good. Everytime she would have one of her anger episodes, I would just say alright ill talk to you in a bit and give her her space while she lashed out. Its sad but I didn’t think much of these episodes until I thought to myself, that all I could remember were the good things about her. Not knowing that, those good things were a reflection of how I TREATED her. At times my biggest guilt would be that, I won’t find someone like her or she ignored my flaws, but I ignored all her flaws. I would be there for her 24/7, even with the distance. I really like the way you described no contacf. That anxiety is always gonna be there everytime I do something out of the comfort zone. Its really weird how they function, but I remember her once saying I have no empathy I wish i had empathy, I didn’t think much of it, but the signs were there I just thought that I could make her more like me and I don’t know, but one thing I do know is that,  what the new guy was/is attracted to is what I made her to be. I remember when I was with her in the beginning she used to be really mean, but either way BPD doesn’t just go away. I was finally able to make some peace when I understood that whether I married her or not, the outcome was the same. Only difference is, I would not have been able to get out so easily. Maybe this was a blessing I don’t know, but I do know that marrying someone just because you feel pressurized is not love, love has patience, love grows with you not distance you from everyone and everything including yourself. I have my days of where I think of beinf out there in fromt of her to remind her of my existence but then I realize theres no point now. I went through all of this to focus on my career and I think that its time I fulfill that. Writing here makes me feel better, but it does remind me that I was too invovled and thats a problem itself, but day by day, as I get to where I need to be, so will my posts reduce. Everytime I feel like she was great to me I just pull out her text where she got so angry that I wasn’t budging for marriage. Sometimes we just have to change the game using the same cards I suppose, and its time to slowly close this chapter of my life. Thoughts?

[Harley Quinn]

My thoughts are that this is not an end but a beginning for you.  With what you have learned about yourself comes an opportunity to use that knowledge to improve your chances of securing a healthy sustainable relationship in the future with someone who can meet you where you're at.  Focusing on what is important to you sounds like a good place to start.

Love and light x

[Struggler123]

My thoughts are that this is not an end but a beginning for you.  With what you have learned about yourself comes an opportunity to use that knowledge to improve your chances of securing a healthy sustainable relationship in the future with someone who can meet you where you're at.  Focusing on what is important to you sounds like a good place to start.

Love and light x

Thank you sometimes it just gets hard to accept somethings. I’m still trying to wrap my head around, how can someone make the decision of their life, within 4 days. When 4 days before that, this person is trying to get me to marry them and then after this decision is made, your asking me to hold your hand. I never knew you could be so close to someone yet so far. And then your telling me your happy with this person but yet your not over me and you still feel the same way but lets make it work as friends.