Split, NC for 40 days, hoping for another chance, looking for input

[Allranuthin]

This is my first post, but I will begin by saying that everyone has helped a great deal already as I have read other posts and don't feel alone in this any more.  As many other posts express, mine is a long story so I will provide just a few details in bullets to get started:

My Partner:

U BPD? (Exhibits almost all behaviors except self harm)

D w/Complex PTSD from multiple pervasive childhood traumas (emotional/sexual/physical abuse/neglect)

Highly functioning, accomplished scholar/professional in social work

Cognizant that our r/s problems stem from her inability to regulate emotions

One of her professional areas of expertise is emotional intelligence

Aware that she is "not ok"

She is loving and affectionate, the girl of my dreams and she swears I have been hers since we met

Not aware of severe cognitive distortions (b/w, all or nothing, always/never, projection, transference etc.)

Thanks me profusely for being strong, loving and stable for staying by her side through all her "chaos"

When "triggered" she is extremely cruel and emotionally abusive, rageful and controlling

Blames me for being mentally ill

Has tried counseling in the past (c-PTSD diagnosis) her therapist left town, and "no one else will ever help her-she tried 3 different counselors over the relationship, and they "made things worse"

Her FOO is EXTREMELY enmeshed and dysfunctional and the source of her trauma-and manipulate her with guilt and shame is she tries to put down boundaries with any of them.

She wants to have relationships with the FOO but knows since they (especially her mother) caused the trauma that she needs to protect herself, but then they use guilt... .cycle.

The FOO denies anything is wrong with her

NO ONE else knows the depths of her pain, emotional dysregulation, rage or other symptoms and behavior

Me:

Human!  Far from perfect-but rather peaceful, balanced and stable throughout my life, before this r/s.

Do my best to remain calm and level headed, loving, compassionate and understanding-but again human!

She now knows my triggers (including my mother's death)  and uses them to get me to engage and I fail at being a good partner

I understand validation, but have had some difficulty because of the outrageous distortions of "my" truth

Also a scholar and accomplished in mental health administration professional-not a clinician


Our relationship:

Almost 9 years

Wonderful, loving, passionate, both committed and faithful- except during stress, then it can be verbally and emotionally volatile, chaotic and unstable

Have discussed (she initiates) marriage several times as recently as first week of January 2016

Extremely compatible and shared world views.

Shared passions and interests (wonderment, research, traveling adventures, books, sports, music, our dogs, outdoors, ancient history and knowledge).

She would often over the years get upset, say she is done with our relationship, throw her ring at me and leave.  Within hours, (a couple time a day or two)  she would calm down, contact me, apologize and come back home.  Then, she would feel bad she lost control and hurt me

We have discussed counseling for both of us to "get tools" to help our situation.  She was ready and we were actively looking when it happened... .

The story:

She split me black on Jan 29 packed her car and left because I am "controlling, stole her identity, have emotional problems, and am abusive" (projection).  It was an extremely ugly and I can only say a seemingly psychotic break.  She was screaming how desperately she hates me and that I will never have her again.  I have not seen her since.

Trigger: Her ex of a 7 yr r/s has consistently been a triggering force for her-even after she and I began our r/s together. I tried to befriend the ex because they were friends.  I quickly found out the ex is a blatant boundary crosser, and manipulator, knew all my partner's triggers and was very disrespectful of my partner and our relationship. The ex wanted my partner back, or at least away from me. 

My partner's worst triggers are lack of trust, fear of abandonment, fear of being controlled, betrayed and losing her identity.  Most of these are very understandable given her childhood.  Whenever her ex would contact her, she would ASSURE my partner that I can't be trusted, that I am a cheater, that I am just using her, I am controlling her, I will leave her, and that she isn't the same person she used to be (identity).  While none of these things were true, after hearing all these things professed by the ex, my partner would be upset and rageful with me when she came home. It would take days for her to "come back to reality" but she always did-and we would be generally loving and fine until the ex infiltrated again. 

After awhile, my partner finally came to realize that her ex was causing her triggers and much of the chaos between us. I now know I wasn't helping things much because I was reacting to the ex.  My partner asked her ex to just leave her alone, I asked her to leave us alone and she would not stop with texts and calls, all hours of the day or night.   With my support (she truly did not know how to), my partner put down boundaries with her ex and blocked number and social media accounts and prevented her from violating into our lives.  It was pretty wonderful.  After two years of  NC with the ex, my partner began incredible guilt about the boundaries because in August 2015, and again in December) the ex figured out she could send emails to my partner through a work account.  The ex fueled the guilt in the emails. 

So when my partner split about 40 days ago, in her rage, she accused me of never letting her have friends (the ex) ruining the most important friend she ever had (the ex)! And trying to control her life.  She ran to the ex, and is staying with her until she can afford and apartment of her own. I am painted black.   I have not seen or spoken to my partner since then.  We exchanged a couple emails a few days after she left about getting the rest of her things which I delivered to her parents within 10 days of her departure.  In the email she said she is devastated and the pain is insurmountable.  She said we lost our path.  I validated her pain and voiced mine too and told her I didn't stop loving her.

Today: 

I spoke with her dad. He and I were always ally's in the chaos of the family--we shared the same roles so to speak in being the unheard voices of reason.  My partner profusely professed her love and respect for both of us and loved that he and I are so close.  He was at least one stable force in her childhood.  She would joke how much alike he and I truly are. At any rate, today he told me she is an emotional wreck, but she got into counseling! She has been to see him several times in these 40 days and she breaks down and cries, loses control and says she still loves me, and then expresses anger about me--back and forth.   He assured me that he is helping her to get her own place and there is nothing "going on" with the ex--(he dislikes the situation and the ex) She has her own room at the ex's and she has expressed to him that THAT (intimacy) will never happen between her and the ex again.  I truly don't think it is an issue either. 

So, I guess I want to know your thoughts.  Outside of the obvious tribulations that bring all of us here to this board, It was a wonderful relationship for both of us, and, to me, worth trying again.  I want her back in my life.  I know it won't be easy, but the trade of is well worth it to me.  The contrast of the continuum has always fascinated us... .we love and fight fiercely, passionately!  My hope is we get another chance, but I want to do my part to tone the fight part down!  I have learned so much on this sight, and now realize I couldn't make things better because I was busy JADE ing and not validating.  I was making it worse!  My INTENTION was NEVER that--I truly do love her with all that I have and hate that she had been hurt and betrayed and traumatized so badly by people who were supposed to love her.  I tried to show her that the love she craved and truly felt for me was safe and I didn't know the right way to do that. I had never experienced anything like this in my life and as the r/s progressed I became more and more confused, hurt and almost helpless. I get it now! She knows I wasn't doing something right and she knows she needs help regulating and managing her emotions. I know every situation is different, but I am seeking opinions.  It's helpful for me to consider various possibilities and views.  Do you think it's too late? Will she split back?  Am I going to be in limbo for a long time? Could it happen in days?  What do you think of the ex's presence? I think she is supplying more black paint, but I know it is temporary, she will be split black soon because she is so "pressuring", in her face, and triggering and she is not, never was, in love with her ex.  She was/is? deeply in love with me.  This has just turned my world upside down. We were planning forever, she wanted to marry me, we were aware of the issues and working toward getting help and then everything exploded.  I'm sitting here in the debris!   

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

  Any breakup is tough, and a chaotic one like this after 9 years has to be a particularly bad one.

It was a wonderful relationship for both of us, and, to me, worth trying again.  I want her back in my life.  I know it won't be easy, but the trade of is well worth it to me.  The contrast of the continuum has always fascinated us... .we love and fight fiercely, passionately!

You know what you want. You know it won't be easy, and you aren't sure if it will even be possible.

That YOU are this clear about it is a very good sign.

At any rate, today he told me she is an emotional wreck, but she got into counseling! She has been to see him several times in these 40 days and she breaks down and cries, loses control and says she still loves me, and then expresses anger about me--back and forth.   He assured me that he is helping her to get her own place and there is nothing "going on" with the ex

And that her feelings are all over the place is no big surprise. Honestly, anybody in her shoes likely would be emotionally a wreck and all over the place, even if they were mentally healthy. (Although if she were more healthy, she wouldn't likely have gotten into that life situation!)

Do you think it's too late? Will she split back?  Am I going to be in limbo for a long time? Could it happen in days?  What do you think of the ex's presence?

The nature of BPD makes it hard to predict anything accurate. Given that she has run away and come back very quickly in the past, this is a bit of a departure. You obviously know her very well and have seen the cycles she goes through. Your guess on how quickly it is likely this time is probably better than mine.

The ex's influence (yes, it is a bad one) may have something to do with this.

I'd also add that as long as she is living with the ex, whose influence is both destabilizing and anti-you, your chances of making things work with her for any length of time are reduced. Fortunately, neither she, nor her dad (and I hope not the rest of her FOO) wants her to stay living with the ex.

But as you heard from her dad, she's not "over" you or clear-headed. She's all over the place. I think it is pretty probably that something different will bounce out sooner or later. Keep on hoping, and prepare yourself to do things better than you did before.

Are you hoping she will move back in with you, or would you be happier if she moved into a place on her own [or with a non-toxic housemate] and reconnect with you while not living together?

[once removed]

hey allranuthin and

im glad youve found us and are feeling less alone as you read the stories of others. there is a lot to your story that resonates with the experience of other members and i think youre in good company .

i do have thoughts; theres a lot to work with here and i can probably be more coherent if i start from the beginning and work my way down.

The story:

She split me black on Jan 29 packed her car and left because I am "controlling, stole her identity, have emotional problems, and am abusive" (projection).  It was an extremely ugly and I can only say a seemingly psychotic break.  She was screaming how desperately she hates me and that I will never have her again.  I have not seen her since.

it seems to me this is less projection and more the fear of engulfment being expressed. BPD is triggered by intimacy, and revolves around those core fears of abandonment and engulfment. a person with BPD has an unstable sense of self; a sense of self is gained through attachments (you), but this is unsustainable. they will grow to resent themselves and ultimately you. when she says you are controlling her and stole her identity i think thats what she is communicating.

So when my partner split about 40 days ago, in her rage, she accused me of never letting her have friends (the ex) ruining the most important friend she ever had (the ex)! And trying to control her life.  She ran to the ex, and is staying with her until she can afford and apartment of her own.

it sounds like the three of you are in what is called a karpman drama triangle, the three points of which are rescuer, persecutor, and victim. the roles can switch around, in fact two people can occupy all three spaces in this triangle. from her perspective, the two of you have traded the role of persecutor and rescuer back and forth.

After awhile, my partner finally came to realize that her ex was causing her triggers and much of the chaos between us. I now know I wasn't helping things much because I was reacting to the ex.  My partner asked her ex to just leave her alone, I asked her to leave us alone and she would not stop with texts and calls, all hours of the day or night.   With my support (she truly did not know how to), my partner put down boundaries with her ex and blocked number and social media accounts and prevented her from violating into our lives.

see what i mean here? ultimately your well intentioned support was resented. thats not your fault but it may help explain her perspective. i sense that she has a lot of shame about her own inability to assert herself but its largely something she must learn to do for herself. as you mention, this has been taught to her by her family for her entire life, so its deeply ingrained. the great news is that she took the step to seek counseling again, and of her own accord.

I have learned so much on this sight, and now realize I couldn't make things better because I was busy JADE ing and not validating.  I was making it worse!  My INTENTION was NEVER that--I truly do love her with all that I have and hate that she had been hurt and betrayed and traumatized so badly by people who were supposed to love her.

thats a great attitude and its very important that youre learning from mistakes. try not to kick yourself though. navigating these relationships is extremely challenging. validation is at the top of the list of tools for a relationship with someone with BPD (its a great skill with everyone really) but there are many more that will be crucial. keep learning and asking questions. given the circumstances (not speaking) its a productive opportunity to understand what it will entail to revive this relationship and sustain it should that happen.

Do you think it's too late? Will she split back?  Am I going to be in limbo for a long time? Could it happen in days?  What do you think of the ex's presence?

i think there are no guarantees, but there is hope. i think the ex's presence is a significant issue. whether or not she has any feelings for them, they demonstrate a great deal of power over her, and she is living with and relying on them. i think that is out of your hands.

it must be very painful to have gone fourty days without speaking to her on top of the explosive last night. i think youve done yourself a lot of good to give the two of you space, especially as shes going through counseling. obviously she is struggling with her feelings about you, and in a therapeutic environment, that may be a great sign. do you expect her to reach out? have you thought about when/if you might reach out if she doesnt?

[MapleBob]

Well, let me first welcome you, Allranuthing! You've come to a good place for your questions to be answered, as many of us have been through similar - if not identical - situations with people in our lives.

I think that your situation sounds very hopeful, actually - maybe one of the most hopeful ones I've encountered in a while. You've identified your part in the situation fairly quickly, and she seems to be at least seeking help with things on her own end. I'd advise you to put aside any notion of a diagnosis or cure for her and steady up/be accountable/validate HARD if/when you're given the opportunity to do so. She's trying to make up her mind about what to do about you (and this ex of hers). It sounds like she's having a deep personal crisis and you need to do your best not to have one simultaneously!  

I'm personally well aware of the trials and tribulations of being in a relationship with someone that has a close, ongoing relationship with an ex. You try really hard to be cool with that fact, and it almost seems healthy most of the time (who doesn't idealize the idea of being mature enough to able to be friends with an ex?) ... .but those other times add up, and they cause damage. And it sounds like your partner's relationship with their ex is doing some serious damage to your relationship with her. I think it's going to be crucial at some point down the line for you to set boundaries with her about this person.

You might also find it fertile ground to explore just how similar you are to her father. I've found that with cluster-B being such an "arrested development"-style group of disorders, it brings out the rebellious teenager in them towards actual or perceived parental figures. The similarities between you and her father are actually a good sign of compatibility, but it takes a lot of work and grounding to be able to see your partner as not literally a parent at more-disordered times. You might do some research into Imago Theory (Al Turtle has a great website about this stuff, check Google) and see if any of it connects with you.

Have you two had much in the way of contact since the breakup? If not, I think you'd be well-advised to drop her a brief message saying that you know she's having a hard time and that you'll be there for her if/when she needs you or wants to talk any of these things through. Then wait. Things will either get better or worse, but they WILL eventually get easier, either way things go.

[C.Stein]

Hello Allranuthin,

You are definitely between a rock and a hard place.  I think it is good you both are very aware of BPD and the challenges it presents in a romantic relationship.  That said your ex seems to have given up the fight (so to speak) with regard to addressing the BPD related issues that are damaging the relationship.  Is this a fair assessment? 

As you clearly are aware, her ex is not only triggering but enabling and using the BPD to her own ends (which is despicable).  I believe it is clear that any forward progress in your own romantic relationship cannot begin until her ex is no longer part of her life. 

Her getting her own place right now is probably a good thing but only if it gives her distance from the ex.  This is something she needs to do for herself because she will be unable to see anything clearly until she does.

How can you be there for her as a friend and supportive of positive personal growth without becoming a part of the triangle?  I feel it is important to maintain and strengthen (if possible) the friendship if there is to be a road back to a romantic relationship. 

[livednlearned]

Really good responses 

I only have one thing to add, and that is along the lines that MapleBob raises about the similarity between you and her dad. He is split white at the moment (from what it sounds like). Do they go through periods where that's not the case? Is it a fairly stable relationship overall?

I'm wondering because there may be potential for Karpman drama triangles to form, if they haven' already. Where you are the persecutor, she is the victim, dad is the rescuer. These roles tend to shift, and with BPD, they can shift on a dime. I can see the temptation to ally with dad. I can also see the temptation for dad to be rescuer by trying to reunite the two of you, causing either harm to his own relationship, or further harm to yours.

What role is he currently playing in your relationship with her (if any)?

[Allranuthin]

I am touched by the support I am receiving here... .I wish I had known I had a family like this a long time ago.  I don't have the quote technique mastered but will try to answer the questions posed to give you more insight. 

I was asked if I am looking for her to come back here to live.  No, not right now, or in the near future.  The way she did this breakup has been like doing surgery with a chain saw.  There is a lot of healing to be done.  If she sticks with her counselor it will take some time until she can sort through everything. At this point I don't even know who she is anymore, and I feel that after 40+ days she is still extremely days regulated and hating me.  There was a new development.  I got a call this evening from a mutual friend who my partner has known all her life.  My partner texted this mutual friend tonight with seething hateful and accusing texts, because she found out this friend has not cut ties with me--and is not on "her side" in this breakup.  in fact this whole situation has actually brought me and the mutual friend closer.  This friend has been "part" of my partner's FOO because she worked with her mother for over 30 years and has witnessed all the dysfunction and disease that my partner grew up in.  At any rate... .my partner painted her black and swears she will NEVER forgive her for spending time with me during this out of control ordeal.  My partner told her it's done and after knowing her for 35 years she will never speak to her again!   I haven't talked to any other mutual friends about any of this, but I know she has.  She has a need to get people "on her side" no matter how disruptive, out of control and hateful her behavior is.  Not only I am grieving the love of my life, life as I knew it, but also faced with the repercussions of an all out smear campaign to defame and berate me, so everyone blames me and feels sorry for her. She distorts everything to make herself look like a hurt and wronged victim--and she is very believable because I have fallen for it too.  So that is my news today.  So tonight I am in a good bit of pain and sorting through emotions right now.  I will post again soon to answer the other questions you all have posted.    Thanks to all of you again. 

[Grey Kitty]

You can read about how to use the quote feature here:

Quoting a Post

Go ahead and share your story here whether you get the quotes right or not--It is only about 100X as important as the formatting 

That mutual friend (now painted black by your ex) could turn out to be a good supporter to for you--as somebody who does understand the sort of crazyness you've lived through.

You sound more sad about her mental illness than mad about what she did to you. I hope this friend has that kind of balance too. There is a time and place for anger, but having somebody who will get lost in it with you or drag you back into it regularly probably isn't what you need today.

[C.Stein]

So tonight I am in a good bit of pain and sorting through emotions right now. 

While it does help to understand what drives this behavior in your ex it doesn't make the hurt and pain any less.  I am so very sorry you have to deal with this kind of pain.  It cuts so deep when you are painted black like this.