Seemingly reasonable contact after n/c, should I reply?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I'm nc for ten weeks now. Relationship "ended" six months ago, he tried to manipulate me into friends with benefits (unsuccessfully) until I walked away in August, in September I returned the things he'd left at my house.  No contact either way since although we live in a small, gossipy town and his house is six streets away from mine.

I'm beginning to feel better although not fully detached. I can see and understand more clearly now.

At the beginning of this year I lost a pendant, not valuable but nice, at his house. I say "lost", I am as certain as I can be that I left it on the mantelpiece in the bedroom. I asked about it several times but he said he hadn't seen it and was uninterested. I considered it lost forever.

This morning he put it through my letterbox, no knock, with a Christmas card with a formal greeting and a note  saying that he'd found the pendant a few days ago when turning his mattress, wishing me a happy Christmas and 2016, with kind regards.

Although I am not detached from him I do not want a reconciliation.

My dilemma is whether or not to send a one line email thanking him for its return or whether to maintain no contact. I have no previous experience of BPD and am not sure if this is as clear and aboveboard as it appears or a subtle way of contacting me. I don't want to appear ill mannered by not responding, this could give him an opportunity to devalue me in our gossipy town. But I don't want to fall for a ploy either - I have recently met a man who is a friend, I'm not ready to start a new relationship. We have been seen around a few times and word may have got back to ex.

What would you do? Comments would be appreciated.

[troisette]

I'm nc for ten weeks now. Relationship "ended" six months ago, he tried to manipulate me into friends with benefits (unsuccessfully) until I walked away in August, in September I returned the things he'd left at my house.  No contact either way since although we live in a small, gossipy town and his house is six streets away from mine.

I'm beginning to feel better although not fully detached. I can see and understand more clearly now.

At the beginning of this year I lost a pendant, not valuable but nice, at his house. I say "lost", I am as certain as I can be that I left it on the mantelpiece in the bedroom. I asked about it several times but he said he hadn't seen it and was uninterested. I considered it lost forever.

This morning he put it through my letterbox, no knock, with a Christmas card with a formal greeting and a note  saying that he'd found the pendant a few days ago when turning his mattress, wishing me a happy Christmas and 2016, with kind regards.

Although I am not detached from him I do not want a reconciliation.

My dilemma is whether or not to send a one line email thanking him for its return or whether to maintain no contact. I have no previous experience of BPD and am not sure if this is as clear and aboveboard as it appears or a subtle way of contacting me. I don't want to appear ill mannered by not responding, this could give him an opportunity to devalue me in our gossipy town. But I don't want to fall for a ploy either - I have recently met a man who is a friend, I'm not ready to start a new relationship. We have been seen around a few times and word may have got back to ex.

What would you do? Comments would be appreciated.

[Moselle]

What would you do? Comments would be appreciated.

Hi Troisette,

What would I do? Smile and think to myself "Nice Try".

I have three children with my BPD/ NPD stb-ex spouse and I can never just say "Be gone". But if I had no attachments like children I would lock that figurative door, with her on the outside and throw away the key.

I'm not sure how bad yours got, but mine is non-cooperative and dangerous. I do not speak to her and I am never in the same venue or physically in the same place ( except in court where I am not afforded that luxury ) We email about the children. I just file it as evidence when she gets nasty

So I'm not a big fan of re-opening any kind of relationship with a pwBPD☺

Do you mind if I ask "Why would you want to?"

[fromheeltoheal]

Think attachments with borderlines, the absolute necessity of having and maintaining attachments to feel whole, although that is subconscious and just shows up as feelings.  If he does exhibit traits of the disorder, you can assume everything he does is in relation to establishing, maintaining or testing attachments, and losing one means abandonment, the worst thing that can happen.

That said, I don't know how your relationship ended, but you can read story after story here from folks who have reestablished contact with their ex, and pretty much unanimously report that it was not only the same, but worse the next time around, because the relationship, and therefore the attachment, was already severed once, so trust is lower and the corresponding behaviors more extreme.  So think back to how things were when they ended, how bad they were, and then make it worse, and decide from there what you want to do.

If you think you have an obligation to acknowledge his gift and would feel guilty if you didn't, then maybe you do, a one time deal with no opening for ongoing communication, or not, as long as you make your well being the focus regardless, and be honest with yourself about your ability to stay firm in your resolve to be done with him, no matter what he tries.  Take care of you!

[JaneStorm]

I'm nc for ten weeks now. Relationship "ended" six months ago, he tried to manipulate me into friends with benefits (unsuccessfully) until I walked away in August, in September I returned the things he'd left at my house.  No contact either way since although we live in a small, gossipy town and his house is six streets away from mine.

I'm beginning to feel better although not fully detached. I can see and understand more clearly now.

At the beginning of this year I lost a pendant, not valuable but nice, at his house. I say "lost", I am as certain as I can be that I left it on the mantelpiece in the bedroom. I asked about it several times but he said he hadn't seen it and was uninterested. I considered it lost forever.

This morning he put it through my letterbox, no knock, with a Christmas card with a formal greeting and a note  saying that he'd found the pendant a few days ago when turning his mattress, wishing me a happy Christmas and 2016, with kind regards.

Although I am not detached from him I do not want a reconciliation.

My dilemma is whether or not to send a one line email thanking him for its return or whether to maintain no contact. I have no previous experience of BPD and am not sure if this is as clear and aboveboard as it appears or a subtle way of contacting me. I don't want to appear ill mannered by not responding, this could give him an opportunity to devalue me in our gossipy town. But I don't want to fall for a ploy either - I have recently met a man who is a friend, I'm not ready to start a new relationship. We have been seen around a few times and word may have got back to ex.

What would you do? Comments would be appreciated.

My recent ex did the same dance with HIS ex while we were together. She went for it and could not wait to tell me about it while he and I were in Kauai this summer. Why did I stay?

They always use the holidays to pull this. Let him gossip; your behavior will show your town otherwise. Don't let him use the best of you against you!

[troisette]

Hi Moselle, thanks for your reply  and I don't mind you asking.

When I say I'm not detached, that's my lingering emotions. I've been reading about trauma bonding and am beginning to understand why I got involved. Yes, my stomach did churn when I opened the envelope. But I was able to rationalise it quite quickly knowing he's not good for me and I don't want a reconciliation.

One of the many issues between us was what I considered the bad manners of him and his friends. So if this was a genuine reason to contact me, not a ploy, I don't want him to have an excuse to devalue me due to my "bad manners" at not replying to thank him.

On the other hand I don't want to break n/c if this is a ploy.

I don't know whether it is or not. I want to do the right thing.  

[troisette]

Thanks heeltoheal. It's not a gift, that would be emotive. This is something I left at his house and thought lost. Only he's just found it and returned it with a formal note. I wonder do they hang on to our belongings or has he genuinely just found it? Thanks for your other comments too, they are very helpful.

Are BPDs so subtle that he would hang on to it for many months and then return it in this way? I mean, if he were not BPD I would assume that he was returning it, didn't want contact with me (because he didn't knock on the door) and is just being polite with his formal note - tacitly acknowledging the relationship is over.

But, although he's not diagnosed, he has all the traits apart from overt anger and I don't know much about BPDs and how they reconnect. I mean, it's not overt is it? Putting it through the letter box with a formal Christmas card and a formal little note? Or can they be so clever to do that to try to disarm me?

Whatever, I don't want a reconciliation and I don't want to give him ammunition.

[blackbirdsong]

Hi,


Knowing my ex and her behaviour, I would say that this is exactly a standard BPD behavior mine.

Look at this in this direction... .Think of all the things he did to manipulate you and hurt you... .you really think that not responding to his Christmas card is bad? It would be bad if your neighbor did this, the person you rarely see, and you didn't respond.  Or someone who really appreciates you.

The person who hurts you like he did, needs to move a mountain to say sorry for all the things, not send a Christmas card. Give yourself a credit for being in toxic relationship, you have it much more than he.

Someone will gossip? OK, let them. Those people should be irrelevant to you. Bond with people who love you, they know you and know what happened in you relationship.

P.S. It is so easy to find a right answer when I read others posts. Why is it so hard for me to do this in my own case?  

I believe that we have the same problem, our relationships were a lie, and someone else can see that very easily from outside, it is just hard for us to admit it... .And change something inside us

[fromheeltoheal]

Thanks heeltoheal. It's not a gift, that would be emotive. This is something I left at his house and thought lost. Only he's just found it and returned it with a formal note. I wonder do they hang on to our belongings or has he genuinely just found it?

Are BPDs so subtle that he would hang on to it for many months and then return it in this way? I mean, if he were not BPD I would assume that he was returning it, didn't want contact with me (because he didn't knock on the door) and is just being polite with his formal note - tacitly acknowledging the relationship is over.

But, although he's not diagnosed, he has all the traits apart from overt anger and I don't know much about BPDs and how they reconnect. I mean, it's not overt is it? Putting it through the letter box with a formal Christmas card and a formal little note? Or can they be so clever to do that to try to disarm me?

Whatever, I don't want a reconciliation and I don't want to give him ammunition.

Everyone's different and you know this guy, you would know better, it's just uncanny how folks who exhibit traits of the disorder also practice very similar behaviors, as you may have noticed from reading stories here, and learning about the disorder can take a lot of the mystery out.  :)oesn't make the behaviors OK, but it can make them understandable in the context of the disorder.

So the pendant could have been something he kept as a token of his attachment to you, and he saw you around town with that other guy and had an emotional reaction, so time to return it and sever the attachment.  Or he could have considered it valuable to you and therefore returning it would be a gift, along with the presentation, as attachment bait.  Or it could have been pure and nice, a gesture with no strings attached, never would have been from my ex, she always had an agenda, but again you know this guy.  You would also know if he's clever or not, but we do know that as an attachment gets threatened, the worst thing that can happen for a borderline, the more emotional and impulsive the decisions get, not that he could articulate why, it's just that uneasy feeling of impending abandonment that shows up as behaviors.

[troisette]

Thanks blackbirdsong, sensible comments.

Yes, why is it so much easier to see when you're on the outside looking in, rather than the inside looking out... .best wishes to you on your journey.  

I'm learning a great deal about BPD from everyone else's experiences. I know we all have different stories but your replies are really helping me.  

[troisette]

Thanks heeltoheal.

It's weird, did I know him? I don't think so.

All of your suggestions as to why he returned it are valid.

When I first opened the envelope I took the note and card at face value.

But he spent his whole working life in advertising, and knows how to manipulate... .I'm really beginning to think hard now and wonder if my first reaction was ingenuous.

[blackbirdsong]

Thanks blackbirdsong, sensible comments.

Yes, why is it so much easier to see when you're on the outside looking in, rather than the inside looking out... .best wishes to you on your journey.  

I'm learning a great deal about BPD from everyone else's experiences. I know we all have different stories but your replies are really helping me.  

No problem. I never post on forums. But here I like to post because I feel like I am also talking with myself when replying.

So, I know that each reply helps you, the same is with me. But also, every my response also helps me too to consolidate things in my head.

Best wishes to you too... .  I am sure that you will be ok, I am reading your posts and I see that you are aware that there were things related to you that were also wrong and unhealthy (you mention trauma bonding etc). This is a huge step, that you know this and you are willing to work on it. That is really great.

I always feel bad when I read someone's post and see myself in my relationship, when person is not aware of the whole picture. Either they blame only them self or only BPD partner. But, in my opinion, the key is to figure that they were abusive and manipulative, and we had also issues because we tolerated this The only thing we can do, is not to change them, but to change our self esteem.  

[babyducks]

I think my actions should reflect my values and (hopefully ) my better characteristics.

I no longer base what I do, or don't do,  on my PwBPD's ability to understand and respond.

What I do should be about what is best for me.   That makes it less of a puzzle.

[hopealways]

I would do nothing. It's amazing how the BPD can "reach out" as though nothing ever happened, as though we are not heartbroken. They rarely reach out to say "I'm sorry, I want help, I want this to work". The reaching out is always a "how are you?" or a "you left something I need to return": cowardly ways to test the water and see if you really care so that their ego can be fed.

This is the problem with the disorder. I wish it could be different. I know we all want the "I'm sorry, I want help, I want this to work".

[Should I stay or...]

I would thank him for returning your pendant but if you'd like closure as well maybe you can word your reply something like... .

Dear ... .

That was very kind of you for returning my valuable, it reminds me of all the wonderful memories that we shared together. Those memories are now carefully placed in a closed chapter in my heart.

Best of life always... .Troisette

[Moselle]

One of the many issues between us was what I considered the bad manners of him and his friends. So if this was a genuine reason to contact me, not a ploy, I don't want him to have an excuse to devalue me due to my "bad manners" at not replying to thank him.

On the other hand I don't want to break n/c if this is a ploy.

I don't know whether it is or not. I want to do the right thing.  

Troisette, the only bad manners here is holding onto something which was yours and not giving it back. I think he had it all along. And as you said, you left it on the mantelpiece.

I don't think it's a ploy. I think he genuinely feels the need to reconnect with you. I've read other peoples experiences here where Borderlines do this for years after a break up. In my opinion he's not considering you and your needs in this. It is about his pain and his needs.

My ex has similar periods of maganimity where she compliments me and is so kind. They are followed by periods of acidic hatred and abuse.

During the marriage this affected me profoundly. Now I smile and say "Nice try".

She asks me regularly if we can be friends. My response is that "I have many friends and none of them steal, commit fraud, violence or verbal abuse. I'd like to keep it that way"

Now she calls me "future friend" . I'm not sure if she'll ever give up. But as for me, she is gone.

I read an article recently about Adele's new song Hello and the urge we all have have to say "Hello" to our ex's ( BPD or otherwise). It's quite a fun read

www.beta.iol.co.za/lifestyle/love-sex/relationships/want-to-say-hello-to-your-ex-dont-1951855

[troisette]

I have slept on it and have decided not to reply.

Thank you everyone for your views, they have been helpful and supportive. Thanks especially to those who focused my mind on valuing myself, putting myself among those who value me and ignoring gossip. Thank you for the article Moselle, Adele singing "Goodbye and Good Riddance" instead of "Hello" made me smile.

I think your suggested note well worded Should I Stay - I think he might interpret it as a challenge.

I have found ten weeks of n/c helpful. Increasingly so week-by-week. Although I am not detached, I didn't want contact from him. So I am putting my needs and gut feeling first and not contacting him. It feels right. And I have a feeling of relief.

Thanks again, your input has been much appreciated. And best wishes to you on your journeys. 

[hopealways]

This is typical BPD behavior: to test the waters before reengagement and to self soothe, all before the recycle cycle begins which ends once again in a discard.  Don't fall for it. BPD behavior does NOT change.

[JaneStorm]

This is typical BPD behavior: to test the waters before reengagement and to self soothe, all before the recycle cycle begins which ends once again in a discard.  Don't fall for it. BPD behavior does NOT change.

Absolutely. They are compelled.

[apollotech]

FHTH:

If you think you have an obligation to acknowledge his gift and would feel guilty if you didn't, then maybe you do, a one time deal with no opening for ongoing communication, or not, as long as you make your well being the focus regardless, and be honest with yourself about your ability to stay firm in your resolve to be done with him, no matter what he tries.  Take care of you!

Hi troisette,

I think the above is very good advice. It is not about him or what he may or may not be trying to do. It is about you and what you want. Are you in control of yourself (Can you send a thank you note and then terminate communications?)? That's the real determining factor regarding a response from you.

[Moselle]

I'm beginning to feel better although not fully detached. I

Although I am not detached from him I do not want a reconciliation.

My dilemma is whether or not to send a one line email thanking him for its return or whether to maintain no contact. I have no previous experience of BPD and am not sure if this is as clear and aboveboard as it appears or a subtle way of contacting me. I don't want to appear ill mannered by not responding, this could give him an opportunity to devalue me in our gossipy town.

Troisette, it sounds like you feel a bit targeted by your ex and in some sense your community.

I know the feeling well. Is there something you can turn your talents to? A hobby, a cause, an adventure?

[troisette]

That's perceptive of you Moselle 

I am feeling vulnerable, less so than I did. Ex is a high functioning charmer  so I've had to be careful since we split. No commenting on him about our break up apart from close friends outside the area where we live. Any negative comments here would rebound on me. So "Rise Above" has been my mantra. As I said, he's a former ad man who has expertly packaged himself. The contents don't match the packaging but I only realised that once I became involved and it would not be apparent in his superficial friendships. So a bit of concealed injustice as well 

Although this is also connected with my childhood FOO stuff, when I felt like an observer of my family, also the scapegoat so there are links... .

But, I am feeling much better now I have decided not to reply. Taking on board the comment about why worry about gossip if he devalues me because I didn't acknowledge the return of the pendant. So what? is now my view. I also have clearer perception of the relationship and its imbalances.

The ten weeks of nc have been of great help in distancing myself and I don't want to risk the possibility of stirring things up by making any form of response - and possibly receiving a reply from him. Don't want to have to deal with that, just want the peace of no contact with him.

I have friends and have a social life, I'm lucky in many ways. The shock of my responses in the aftermath of the break up with someone I later realised was BPD was overwhelming. I'd never felt that tsunami of grief, really disabling and shocking. That's why my present situation is precious to me and I want to let sleeping dogs lie and get on with rebuilding my life. That includes rediscovering my creativity which I think will be nothing but a good thing and I'm thinking of taking a sunshine break in January. So alongside anxiety about meeting ex at Christmas parties, there is also positivity about building my new life.

Thanks for your reply. As I said, perceptive.

[thisworld]

Hi Troisette,

And congratulations on the long way you have come in your healing and NC. And in my experience, yes, this is typical BPD behaviour and yes, these people are capable of ploys like this - indeed, they have an in-built set of skills which allow them to do these things way more swiftly. How does he feel about it? God knows. Maybe he feels he is sincere, maybe he is more intentional in his manipulations. Ask him at two different times, he would probably give different answers.

From what I read in your post, I sense that you are actually afraid of this guy, so he still has some control over you. This fear, which I have too, is reasonable because it is in their capacity to start smear campaigns sometimes. However, responding in the way you think would satisfy him would not prevent this. Respond politely, positively and you know what, he could still badmouth you. If he feels warm towards you, he may try to sabotage that or push you away by badmouthing you. If he gets angry because you don't respond, he may again badmouth you. You cannot control his actions through what you think would work with reasonable individuals. This may be very scary but accepting it and raising above it will give you freedom, and then he won't be able to hurt you. You simply won't care and in between maybe there will be an opportunity for you to see your real friends and rational people in general.By the way, many people won't care about what he says even though they don't say this to him directly.

If he knows your sensitivities and values (like being a polite person) - which he does- he will most probably try to hook you from there. However, there are a lot of people who don't respond to Christmas cards from their exes and that doesn't make them impolite or rude.

What is he going to say to people? "I returned her pendant and she even didn't say a thank you." Anyone in their right mind would think "Argh, I wonder why." and then drop it. What will you do if he just puts one foot in the doorway with this little card and then starts demanding more? Are you OK with responding to everything he wants because you are afraid that he may badmouth- which he may be doing anyway.

If you feel you have to contact him, if other options are causing you too much anxiety, maybe you can just write the most boring thank you note ever, without anything personal about him or yourself. He may try to get more personal but eventually his interest would wane. However, this doesn't diminish the risk of what you are afraid of.

If there are particular individuals that are important to you and you fully trust, you can share this situation with them so his probable smear campaign won't affect them. Don't be afraid that new people in your life could be affected. If they are worth your time, they will ask you what is happening here. And for the rest of the world, no, not contacting with an ex does not make you an impolite, rude person. Some people will even see a strong character in it and appreciate you for that.

If I received this from my ex, I would even be suspicious of "under the matress" (is he saying this to make me reminiscence (his usual habit), is he saying this to explain why the pendant was not returned until now, is he trying to make me think why he is turning the mattress:)) I would never know because he is made of layers and layers of lies. Sometimes it is best to keep our thoughts on what we can do or want to do. The rest is too confusing and usually leads nowhere.

Best,

[Moselle]

Thanks for your reply. As I said, perceptive.

You're welcome. You'd never guess why I can empathise with you on this ☺

[Justacowgirl]

Troisette-

I agree with hopealways, do nothing.  I received flowers and candy tonight in my hotel room - I didn't tell him where I was staying so you can imagine my anxiety.  I'm not responding because that gives him hope and keeps me on edge anticipating continued contact.  The end is the end and yes, it hurts like h***, but believe me, if you fear him for any reason (me too), then you've made the right decision.  Don't give him anything.

[shatra]

thisworld wrote

Maybe he feels he is sincere, maybe he is more intentional in his manipulations. Ask him at two different times, he would probably give different answers.

----I find that frustrating. I would consider that "lying", but pwBPD seems to just respond based on their current feeling and that current feeling changes at the drop of a hat... .and so along with that changes their thoughts and opinions, etc.  I can't rely on them

[troisette]

Thank you this world; yes I am afraid of him. Not physically but because I know how expert a manipulator he is. But it's also within me of course. Linked to part of my FOO issues: I had a manipulative charmer brother, ten years my senior. After our father died he bullied me with my mother's co-operation. Over the weekend I have been thinking about your's and Moselle's comments and have realised that after my father died my brother modelled the male role for me and that there are aspects of ex that resemble him. Not in any positive way, just the negatives. Hence my fear, my brother had authority over me and I felt powerless. I'm mimicking that in this situation I think, with ground to do so but also due to my conditioning when a small child.

All of you have been so helpful and wise. I posted three days ago, fearful that I would somehow be punished by badmouthing if I didn't respond. I had no idea whether my ex could have a hidden agenda, I just knew instinctively that I didn't want to contact him. Didn't know why really.

In those three days my mindset has changed, understanding that thanks are not a requirement, realising the imbalances and how my perspective was skewed, relief that I will not contact him, realisation of some of the reasons I stayed with him longer than I should have done. All due to this thread. Thank you people!

Oddly, I also realised that yesterday was a year on, to the day, when I was subjected to some nasty bullying by one of his female friends, he warned me in advance that she would do it and thereby colluded when she did, in his presence. I was astonished that adults behaved in such a way, it was my first realisation that weirdness was around me. I was gutted as he defended her, describing her as fragile and said he couldn't stay at my house, he was too distressed. Needing to separate myself, I went to stay with a friend the next day, I was distraught by the unfairness. He pursued me by email and I returned. I should have ended it then. So apposite timing.

[thisworld]

Dear Troisette,

I'm so happy to hear that you are feeling better, less anxious and more empowered now. If your fear and anxiety returns, please know that it is normal and it will pass, too. And ı can so relate to what you have shared about your FOO. I'm the adult child of a narcissistic mother (albeit low grade) and go through similar feelings when I feel unsafe.   

Even in the midst of your anxiety, please try to remember that you have some power, too, and you are not as powerless as you were once in the hands of other manipulators. That was past, you were younger, didn't have the adult power you have now and sometimes these fears trigger our past hurts. You already know this and if you can't remember this when you are scared, maybe write a note to yourself and carry it with you. A reminder of present reality pulls us out of our fears based on the past.

I have had to deal with a narcissistic controller, manipulator, abuser once. With him, after lots of practice and help from peers, I managed to drop some hints about how I could damage him too and we had a silent negotiation. He understood and stayed away from me, not saying a word to anyone.

With the borderline now, after all those years, I'm not sure if the same would work because he is more impulsive, I don't know to what degree he would be able to pursue his narcissistic interests and I will be working with a therapist experienced in abuse to see what I can do to protect myself. The narcissist was very predictable, I can't judge this new person because I knew him for two months only and he is also a drug addict. 

I hope your guy is more controlled than the heavily dysfunctional person I allowed into my life.

What helps me most is thinking along these lines: Because I was a victim of a narcissistic (albeit low grade) mother, I have developed so many ethical criteria based on how I would never treat others the way I was treated. This is good but sometimes it takes away some power that I have because I may be too passive, too ethical, devoid of tools people naturally use to protect themselves. With therapy, I have come to a point where I allow myself to suspend my passive ethics temporarily if it is a matter of protecting myself or survival. I don't damage people, I don't attack or don't retaliate for revenge, but I can do reasonable stuff to protect myself that is beyond my usual limits in my relations with others. This makes me feel more empowered.

Just wanted to share.

Best, 

[Skip]

Are BPDs so subtle that he would hang on to it for many months and then return it in this way? I mean, if he were not BPD I would assume that he was returning it, didn't want contact with me (because he didn't knock on the door) and is just being polite with his formal note - tacitly acknowledging the relationship is over.

It was a nice gesture and the card was considerate. He did this on your birthday, too (even if it was late).

Is it a conspiracy? Probably not. pwBPD are impulsive, not calculating. Have you seen him be this calculating in other areas?

Is it opportunistic? Could be. Maybe he found it weeks ago and now he wanted to makes a gesture so he released it. That gesture could be letting go. It could be missing you as the holiday approaches. This is typical break-up stuff (BPD or not).

Is it manipulation? I guess I'd ask manipulation to do what? Have you think about him? At that level, if that is manipulation, probably yes.

Is it a sign he wants to try again? It could be a subtle probe.

Should you respond? This is really about who you are - not him. It sounds like that is what you would normally do. A sign of moving on and strength is being able to be ourself.  Are you there yet?  

I think this is how I would look at it.

[troisette]

Thank you this world, the comments you make about ethical criteria sometimes taking away our power is valid and accurate in my case too. More to think about... .

Skip, it seems you misunderstand the circumstances around my birthday gift - if I have referred to it in previous posts. It was demeaning in content and presentation. The scruffiest of re-used  wrapping, a gift I already possessed with the easiest card he could muster on the computer. Very upsetting to receive from someone who, as an art director, prides himself on his choice and presentation of gifts. The tacit message appeared to be how little he cared or valued me.

[Indiegrl]

this world (nice nick!)

I can relate to this;

This is good but sometimes it takes away some power that I have because I may be too passive, too ethical, devoid of tools people naturally use to protect themselves. With therapy, I have come to a point where I allow myself to suspend my passive ethics temporarily if it is a matter of protecting myself or survival. I don't damage people, I don't attack or don't retaliate for revenge, but I can do reasonable stuff to protect myself that is beyond my usual limits in my relations with others. This makes me feel more empowered.

- thanks for sharing, for putting so clearly into words what I have been thinking about, but not grasped completely. I think it's about boundaries too. If I become "harsher" than I normally like to be, I get anxious. Afraid to be rejected, I guess. Reading back on the emails that I wrote but did not send my ex, wow, they are actually better than the moderated ones I did send. At that time I thought; I can't send away this aggressive and not understanding stuff, I have to be way more considerate not to hurt him like he has hurt me. Well, now I see that I was not in any way being mean or ugly in the angry and honest mails I did not send him. ":)o to others what you would like them to do to you" - sometimes that is wrong, I guess, or rather: Doesn't work well. Thank you.

troisette,

it seems like you have found your self-esteem - you come across as a very wise and confident woman - me like :-)

Skip, it seems you misunderstand the circumstances around my birthday gift - if I have referred to it in previous posts. It was demeaning in content and presentation. The scruffiest of re-used  wrapping, a gift I already possessed with the easiest card he could muster on the computer. Very upsetting to receive from someone who, as an art director, prides himself on his choice and presentation of gifts. The tacit message appeared to be how little he cared or valued me.

[Skip]

Skip, it seems you misunderstand the circumstances around my birthday gift - if I have referred to it in previous posts.

The quality of the birthday card or "if you referred to it" are not really central to my message.

The point was that he is a card giver (some men aren't) and that card giving is not extraordinary.  We were discussing your "dilemma as to whether or not to send a one line email thanking him for its return or whether to maintain no contact."  

My apologies if my comments weren't helpful.