Divorce and Custody Court tomorrow

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

 
So... obviously I haven't read the order... .but...

I'm assuming this flexibility is granted to her... to change the order and schedule.

I understand that life happens... emergencies and that has to be accounted for, but this seems "permanent"... .vice "my car broke down and I'm running late.

Do you think the judge is giving her rope to hang herself with?

FF

[formflier]

 
So... obviously I haven't read the order... .but...

I'm assuming this flexibility is granted to her... to change the order and schedule.

I understand that life happens... emergencies and that has to be accounted for, but this seems "permanent"... .vice "my car broke down and I'm running late.

Do you think the judge is giving her rope to hang herself with?

FF

[livednlearned]

Ignoring the judge's orders flagrantly and repeatedly, for no justifiable reason, especially after the judge was torn on how to rule on custody, is what sunk ex's ship.

Your son's ex can only defy the judge's orders for so long before her disregard begins to attract the wrong kind of attention.

Most reasonable people can and do follow judge's orders.

The crappy part is that we are the ones who have to make sure the behaviors are noticed, which costs more time and money.

[formflier]

So... if these changes are "unapproved"... .I would make sure that there is documentation (via email) clarifying that your son does not agree and that he is attempting to follow the judges orders.  I would also document for yourself lost time and expense.

I somehow got the idea in the posts that these were approved modifications... .can you clarify how they were made?


FF

[Panshekay]

In court the judge had suggested 3 hours so many days a week.  Then our S attorney told the judge that both attorneys would discuss things and decide. I guess our sons attorney suggested Wed 5-7, Friday the same then Sun 10-2. 

I spoke to our son last night and he said Ex’s attorney didn’t agree, so it was changed without anything being said to our son to Sun 3 to 5.  What amazes me is like so many other parents who are going through the same thing, our son is a man, who is an RN who at one time had both SD and S 70% of the time, then SD alienated from him, but always had his S 50/50 until W started to make false allegations, W hid the kids several times for a few weeks until the last 8 weeks prior to court.  The outcome is mind blowing. Our hope is in the new T who is aware of the visitation change and wasn’t happy. I really thinks she gets it. Interesting side note is the CASA lady who testified on our sons behalf called me the other night, she said that EX called and complained about her again to her manager. This is the 2nd time now... .but from what I gather they are onto EX W and what she is doing... .we all know Ex won’t stop but like others have said the truth will be shown. I really think that’s what is happening. Our son was in much better spirits last night. As you all know I have been very supportive which hasnt always been easy, it’s hard to see this sort of thing happen to your own child.  I am hoping once the T starts seeing everyone on a regular basis things will change and he will have his son 50/50 within a few months. . I hope EX remembers what the judge said about not making anymore false allegations. Again, we will see what happens. Thanks for the continued support.

[ForeverDad]

Interesting side note is the CASA lady who testified on our sons behalf called me the other night, she said that EX called and complained about her again to her manager. This is the 2nd time now... .but from what I gather they are onto EX W and what she is doing... .we all know Ex won’t stop but like others have said the truth will be shown.

She was told bluntly she couldn't file new allegations.  While this may not be a new allegation, per se, but it certainly ought to be considered as such.  Can it be reported?  Squeeze a balloon in one spot and it will pop up elsewhere.  May I make a prediction?  Somehow, someway, she'll make a complaint about the Judge's choice of counselor and seek to get a less experienced one to replace her.

In court the judge had suggested 3 hours so many days a week.

So his four hours on Sunday was obviously intended to make up for the shorter time during the week.  He ought to at least get his three hours.  Duh!  However, the three hours was just to start.  Any word from the counselor when the time can start ramping up?  After all, with no allegations sustained against son, he ought to at least get the typical alternate weekends, sooner than later.

[formflier]

  I hope EX remembers what the judge said about not making anymore false allegations. 

While I understand that you guys would like this to stop.  Strategically... .for your son, the best thing she could do for you side is crank out another wild accusation... .

I understand what you are saying... .

FF

[Panshekay]

 I agree FD,  I think you are right. I can see her doing that as well with the new T.  I don’t think she is going to be able to get away with anything. I spoke to our son tonight. T has a huge court case that started today. I suggested he text her to find out when they can meet again, after all she does have $2,000 of his money.

 Ex is now making a habit of going  to California every other if not every weekend, probably using that spousal support money for her trips.  FF, yes, you are right... .I just think right now I am trying to focus on my daily life... .I’m sure she will make another accusation, why stop at 19?  I just dread it emotionally. This has been 4+ years of hell. Like I told our son, baby steps. I feel FD is right, one day he will get custody... .but it might take a few years. Thank you both for your insight.

[takingandsending]

I spoke to our son last night and he said Ex’s attorney didn’t agree, so it was changed without anything being said to our son to Sun 3 to 5. 

Panshekay, I guess this is the part that has me puzzled. The judge ordered both attorneys to discuss/agree. Did that happen? It sounds like your S's attorney suggested Su 10-2. xw attorney says no, Su 3-5. What did your S's attorney say? Yes? If anything other than yes, the attorneys are not complying with the judge's order. If I had a guess, I'd say S's attorney sent an e-mail, as did xw's attorney, hence your S being blindsided. I would personally be grilling my attorney, asking him how the discussion took place (in person, by phone, by e-mail), tell him no e-mail in the future but in person or by phone until he gets his hours, the few that they are. And, I do not expect to be blindsided by an agreement that he is representing me in again. I would not accept my lawyer telling me, well they didn't agree at the last minute so there's nothing we can do about it. That is B.S.

[Panshekay]

Thank you Takingandsending... .I am in total agreement, it is BS.  All of it... .and it goes on and on.  Our son told me tonight when he got his son on Friday his son acted weird, and his ex was in victim mode. Since his ex now has all the power to decide medical things our son feels she has most likely gotten another therapist for his son to see. He said it’s either that or she has made another complaint, he said his son acted guilty, like he has in the past when he has lied about his dad.

  I was wrong with what this court appointed T is supposed to do... .she is there to do reunification... .not counseling with my grandson.  I feel like we are starting over again.  I honestly don’t know how everyone goes through all this without losing it.  Everything cost money, a 1,000 here, 2,000 there... .  Our son is contacting the T tomorrow.  Hopefully she can make sense of this because I can’t. I know what I heard the judge say. It’s all a big game and my grandson is the one to lose.

[ForeverDad]

Likely what the judge stated was "on the record" and so your son should be able to get a copy.  To use it with other professionals and refer to it when back in court he may have to pay to get it transcribed in print.

I wouldn't be surprised that she did get another counselor for their son, she may be allowed to do so unilaterally if she has custody now. BUT he as father probably has a statutory right to have access to son's records, including who child's doctors and counselors are AND when there are changes.  That may be an item to add for counselor or when he's back in court, that he needs notification.  Another item to show she's not behaving well as one of two parents.

[formflier]

If the judge has allowed the Mom to still get other counselors... .that (to me) seems to be a serious oversight.

If the judge fired one counselor and installed another, the ability of the Mom to add more could undo the judges intent.

I would ask if there is a way for your L to clarify this part of the order.

FF

[Panshekay]

Sorry, I have been ill.  Last Friday night the T met at our sons home to see him interact with GS.  She was only going to stay an hour but since S can’t be “alone” with his son she stayed the full 2 hours. When there was a knock at the door our S opened it to his Ex, S and T.  He said ex was all “ it’s ok, it will be ok” to his S... .which was ridiculous.

Once GS and T got inside our Sons house he gave his dad a big hug. Keep in mind it was 5:00pm... .our son had made home made Chinese noodles and pizza, our GS favorite, but GS stated he already ate.  The T, GS and Son all sat up to the table to play a game, our  GS got side tracked with a science project they had been working on in Oct. so they did that, then the T had to see the house etc. our son said that the visit couldnt have gone any better... .when Ex arrived she had the nerve to just come inside the house!  The T stayed for a while after ex and GS left  and asked if that is how his son usually acts, and our son said yes, that is his base line. She was impressed, looked around and commented on the art work down  the hall.  I love to paint and watercolor, I had my family all watercolor self portraits! ... .the T thought that was hilarious, we have all of his sons school stuff on the walls and I always make pictures after I visit so they have those memories on the walls in their bedrooms and living room. 

She said she had read the character letters that our Son had given her, and said “you are a great man”. She made the comment again that she could see through his ex and wanted to speak to the judge and the CaSA lady.  Nothing and I mean nothing seems to move with any speed. It’s very frustrating to me. I’m the type of person who likes to get things done... .at work I do all the release of medical records and chart audits Legally we have I think 30 days... .when I get the release I do it immediately, and fax it... .done! ... .that’s how I roll haha, but not everyone is like that.

Everything is still the same, 6 hours per week. The CASA lady has not been released yet from our sons SD case so she can’t call the T, it has to be the T who calls her. It’s the hurry up and wait game. Like I said I have been ill so I haven’t spoken much to our son since last Friday. I want to reach out to the T but am really trying to be mindful and let our son and God handle it... .his ex met with the T at her house on Sun for an hour but we won’t hear how that went. T wanted to see how our GS acted at each parents house. She asked if our Son knew that Ex had signed up GS for basketball and volleyball, our S said, no, she didn’t tell him... .T made the statement “ she sure can’t co-parent can she?” clearly irritated.

On a positive side note our son had bought several of Dr Childress books “Foundations”, he had it sitting on the counter, the T made the comment that she has read his books but not that one. Our S told her that book was for her... .she said, oh,  just to read? And our S said, no... .to read and keep. She was very appreciative, so let’s see what happens next.

[Panda39]

Hi Panshekay,

Hope you're feeling better 

She was only going to stay an hour but since S can’t be “alone” with his son she stayed the full 2 hours.

Now there is an act of kindness 

When there was a knock at the door our S opened it to his Ex, S and T.  He said ex was all “ it’s ok, it will be ok” to his S... .which was ridiculous.

                       

Probably good that the therapist got to see the ex's "performance".

Once GS and T got inside our Sons house he gave his dad a big hug. Keep in mind it was 5:00pm... .our son had made home made Chinese noodles and pizza, our GS favorite, but GS stated he already ate.  The T, GS and Son all sat up to the table to play a game, our  GS got side tracked with a science project they had been working on in Oct. so they did that, then the T had to see the house etc. our son said that the visit couldnt have gone any better... .

  The T stayed for a while after ex and GS left  and asked if that is how his son usually acts, and our son said yes, that is his base line. She was impressed, looked around and commented on the art work down  the hall.  I love to paint and watercolor, I had my family all watercolor self portraits! ... .the T thought that was hilarious, we have all of his sons school stuff on the walls and I always make pictures after I visit so they have those memories on the walls in their bedrooms and living room. 

This all sounds really good, positive interaction between father and son and getting a feel for your side of the family as a whole. Sounds like everyone had fun.

... .when Ex arrived she had the nerve to just come inside the house!

Next time have everything ready a few minutes early, coat on your GS any stuff he has with him by the door.  If he's ready to go there is no need to come in... .better yet if the weather is okay maybe play catch or something outside a few minutes before she is due to arrive... .When this goes back in front of the judge and as your son gains more time (and he will gain more time) with your GS, a neutral pick up and drop off sight might be better... .drop off and pick up at GS school or at the local Police Station etc.  It might be something to suggest if she continues boundary busting.

Nothing and I mean nothing seems to move with any speed. It’s very frustrating to me. I’m the type of person who likes to get things done... .at work I do all the release of medical records and chart audits Legally we have I think 30 days... .when I get the release I do it immediately, and fax it... .done! ... .that’s how I roll haha, but not everyone is like that.

This made me laugh, I'm with you sister why wait to do something later when you can just get it done now and be finished... .have I told you about my slightly OCD tendencies  Perfect for my job maintaining licence compliance at the Hospital I work for.

Everything is still the same, 6 hours per week. The CASA lady has not been released yet from our sons SD case so she can’t call the T, it has to be the T who calls her. It’s the hurry up and wait game. Like I said I have been ill so I haven’t spoken much to our son since last Friday. I want to reach out to the T but am really trying to be mindful and let our son and God handle it... .

It's hard to be a "mama bear" and have to sit and wait I, but hang in there... .clearly this whole thing is a lesson in patience.

... .his ex met with the T at her house on Sun for an hour but we won’t hear how that went. T wanted to see how our GS acted at each parents house. She asked if our Son knew that Ex had signed up GS for basketball and volleyball, our S said, no, she didn’t tell him... .T made the statement “ she sure can’t co-parent can she?” clearly irritated.

Good observation by the Therapist 

It sounds like things are going well albeit a somewhat slow    I'm glad to hear your update everything sounds like positive progress so far.

Keep us posted going forward 

Panda39

[ForeverDad]

One of the tasks, if not the primary one, is to reintegrate the father-child relationship.  Let's hope T wants to meet with judge to (1) move reintegration along faster and (2) speak frankly that her observations thus far have led her to conclude the wrong parent has custody.

[Panshekay]

Oh Panda39, we have bonded!  What a coincidence that we both work for a hospital and do the type of work we do.  Like I always say, I deal with facts, so it drives me batty when facts aren’t checked, when so called professionals just go by what ever Ex states.

So CASA lady has been trying to reach our son.  He has tried calling her back but she has family things going on this week.  On Wed visitation our GS arrives at trampoline park with a heart monitor on. DHS had been investigating ex for Munchausen by proxy but dhs management shut that down.  Not sure what happened with all that.

 Ex has had Gs checked by 2 cardiologists, and had several ekg’s, which came back normal. Now GS is wearing a heart monitor for 30 days... .ugh.   Our S got a call from T yesterday saying ex will bring your son to your HOUSE at 5, then you will immediately drive him to my office (which is across town) after I see you and your son you will drive son back to your house where Ex will pick him up at 7.  Our son said I am not supposed to be alone in a car with my son, per his ex. T said she had already told Ex to bring Gs to his house. So we both wondered what was going on.

So tonight his ex arrives with son at his house, he immediately drives to T office. She watches GS play, then she asks our son if he has anything to say to his son.  So our S says, I love you and miss you and I will always keep you safe when you are with me.  Then T says to Gs, do you want to say anything to your dad?  Do you want to read the list you wrote down for me? Gs shuts down and says no.  So T says ok, you can go back to your dads house and play, Gs gets all panicky and says he is hungry and wants to go out to eat, so our S says, buddy, I have dinner at home for you, Gs then says he wants to play at T office, our son says again, buddy let’s go home and play, Gs says, oh, to moms house and our son says no, to our house.

Gs starts fiddling with the heart monitor, and our S sees that the battery is dead... .he tells T, here Ex is so worried son has cardiac issues but yet she can’t charge a battery! So Gs gets ready and Our S asks T when he gets more time with his son, it’s been 5 weeks and the judge had said to resume 50/50 visitation asap, T says, well I have only gotten all your records 2 weeks ago (which is a lie, when we first met her she said she got a huge box from the court with all the records) T tells our S that he has to meet with Ex before longer visitation can happen, son asks why, that is not what the judge said. Then T says well your ex is concerned when you meet her to get son,  you don’t act happy around her (are you kidding me.)  and until you can meet together and discuss those issues visitation will stay the same!   

Our son says why is Ex determining that?  T says, she isn’t, T is in control... .(WOW).  Our son says he doesn’t feel like anything is changing, then T says, well I got an interesting email late today from Your Ex’s Attorney.  Just then Gs comes back into the office and T tells our son she will have to tell him about the email later.  Our S apologizes for being impatient but he can see this is going to all go ex’s way, she never has any consequences and gets to make all the decisions.

He is going down the rabbit hole again. Unfortunately he still owes his Att $6,000, so he has to pay that before he can take ex back to court. I am perplexed over all this. What the heck is happening? 

[Panshekay]

Son spoke to CSA lady. She has been released from his SD case. She said she spent 4 hours with his ex last week talking to her. Ex was hurt the CASA lady wasn’t on her side during court and felt betrayed. Please keep in mind CASA Lady doesn’t have much experience with people like EX. Ex told her she hated her attorney and didn’t want to go back to court again.  She said she thought he was useless as an attorney, and that’s why she didn’t come out better in court?  REALLY? 

 So, Ex is still playing the victim... .she pants a picture of a horrible att, but yet is still using him... .these are the things I see... .and life has taught me not to buy into anything she says. I have no doubt she will start with accusations again, which will lead to court.

It’s exhausting, there are days I feel like a walking dead person. Although I’m not the one that has to live this daily like our S... .he is my S and this is my GS.  Does anyone know if a letter can be written to the judge and how do you know it even will get to the judge to read?  Thank you for the continued support.

[ForeverDad]

I suspect a letter can't be written directly to the judge.  But that's a legal question.  Possibly if a letter is sent it would just have to be addressed with both parties or lawyers present.

[ForeverDad]

If you or your son can't contact the judge directly without starting an action, which I somehow feel would be the case, he can contact the T.  If he wrote reasonable concerns and asked for a written reply, would it help "hold her feet to the fire" and be accountable?  I just don't know.  Here are some points he could politely make.  I'm not sure how much of this is accurate but I think it's pretty close.  I'm assuming some of this was in the judge's specific statements.  Let son QUOTE the supporting passages from the recording or transcript.

• The original schedule started at 2 hours on each Wed & Fri and then 4 hours on Sunday, a total of 8 hours per week.  Without son's input and without adjustment to expand the visits on other days, Sunday was shortened to two hours.  And mostly in public scenarios.  However, transcripts have judge stating ____.
• Son has cooperated fully with the hours permitted him.  He has had 6 hours per week for going on 6 weeks now with no increase.  However, transcripts have judge stating ____.  (I think judge said increases should occur after the initial two weeks?)  Then why no increased time yet?
• Son has been informed by T and lead to believe that his ex is claiming their child is not ready for more time with father and that is why there is has been no further restoration of his parenting.  Transcripts record Judge stating that the goal is to return to equal parenting time.  Why specifically has son's parenting been kept at 6 hours per week this long?  His ex has a history to obstructing father's parenting time so her personal views should not influence the T's decisions and the judge's stated expectations.
• A new T was ordered for their child.  (Presumably... .) Why hasn't father been able to bring his son to the new T for half the sessions?  Transcripts have judge stating ____.
• Father has real concerns that the longer he is limited to minimal parenting time with his child that the child will become even more accustomed to having minimal time with him.  Delays without basis are contrary to the judge's stated expectations.
• Father is looking forward to the future and wants time such as during Spring Break, a common week for vacations (or staycations).  Holidays and typical summer vacation time is fast approaching.  Historically, father was blocked by mother's allegations to various agencies from many past holidays and vacation periods.  Often these require advance notifications.  Father asks for approval to begin requesting such events, or if currently declined, that the time notice requirement be waived once he does get more time.  For example, father doesn't want a vacation notice to be objected to if while his parenting was still limited he didn't send notice by a certain date as usually required.

[Panshekay]

Thank you forever Dad.  All great ideas. Cuttently im tiring to stay out of the rabbit hole, not always successful doing that.  As you all know it’s so exhausting. Bottom line is our GS life is being destroyed. There has got to be a special hell for that.

[livednlearned]

Panshekay, I wish I could give you a break, just give you a day off so you could have a short respite and shore up some strength for the next leg.

It is heartbreaking, genuinely heartbreaking.

Your you, your son, and your grandson are in my thoughts and prayers.

LnL

[Panshekay]

Thank you LnL. So many parents are going through this. Today when I spoke to our son he told me how thankful he was for this site. He said because of this site he was forewarned that things would never end. Because of that he felt he hasn’t been blindsided as much.  Our son knows 2 other men who thought once divorced things would be better, so when it wasn’t they were more devastated.

 I truly try and look for the blessings in the small things. Like this site and the knowledge you all have provided us as well as the empathy. Through this we have met incredible people.  Knowledge is very powerful, hearing others stories I have learned that we are not alone. Without all of you I truly don’t know where we would be.  Like FD has said, at least our son is seeing his son, how many parents haven’t seen their children for years?  Yes, there are days I go down the rabbit hole, and many days I cry or wake up crying but I have a husband who loves me, 3 great adult children, 7 grandchildren who mean the world to me and I do know (although I wonder) there is a reason for everything. Thank you all for your kind words and encouragement. Like I have said before, you all have saved us.

[RolandOfEld]

I am locking this thread because it has reached its length limit. The post originator is welcomed to open a continuation thread on this topic.  Have a great day.