Loneliness amidst the madness

[maria1]

I feel like everything in my life is impossible. It isn't of course but, relationship and friendship wise I'm surrounded by people who are pretty dysfunctional and seem to be living in pretty deep denial. It's all getting to me, as they continue in their patterns I want to break out but I'm stuck with people who have no idea what I'm talking about really.

I am changing my perspective on my best friend of 20 years, for the past few years I've been the one to initiate contact. I gave up recently and she missed my birthday- followed with one text. I don't want to call her because I'm sick of living the same old patterns with people. She can make some effort. I think she is struggling with stuff in her life but so am I. Feel bad for writing that but I have to say it. I feel like she is family to me and if I give her up I have no family left apart from my children. I think we may have grown too far apart. I find it hard watching her in a relationship where her and her children seem to laugh at her partner. She complains about him in front of them and it all gets to me. Her son is shy and she's always telling him to behave in certain ways. It's getting to me.

I have a new friend who I have got close to over the past year. She is a bit messed up because of stuff in her past, but she is trying. She understands me and I her. She is honest.

BPD ex knows how messed up he is (at times) and he is trying to be better. He doesn't quite get how it's always someone else's fault but he does get that a lot of it is his fault. So many people I know don't get that.

Another friend's husband keeps turning to me for support as they are separating. He sees me as jolly and fun and a good listener. I'm sick of listening to him. I think he is selfish and emotionally immature and I don't like him very much. It saddens me that people think I like them when I don't.

I spent nearly 2.5 months in a relationship with someone who seemed so non disordered it was great! But he was actually so controlled I couldn't deal with it. I suspect he was beginning to pull me into that controlled world, in a codependent rather than an abusive way but I didn't want it. He had an abusive childhood. I am drawn to people who have seen some darkness but I was very tempted to stop seeing him when he told me about the abuse. I felt I couldn't because how awful would that be?

At work I share an office with a woman who lies and manipulates to get through life. She does very well out of it. I'm not well at the moment and I feel I have to keep going because she already went off sick using my own sickness last year. I was badly anaemic so that my heart rate was affected. I didn't tell everybody about the heart stuff. She then went off sick saying her thyroid condition was causing her to have a high heart rate. She uses 'stress' to her own ends. I feel like I'm going under and I can't tell anyone properly because they will think I'm just like her. Saying all that I've gone off sick now because I can't function. Just writing that makes me feel like I'm cheating. I should be able to cope.

I'm trying to be lonely- getting on with it all and feeling awful. My children need me all the time and only get me half the time. They need their dad all the time and only get him half the time. There is no answer to it except manage it and let them express it. I feel like I'm holding up everybody else's sorrow.

BPDex understands my ~. He gets it- maybe he uses it to his own ends but the most difficult thing about all of this is that he was probably the one person who has ever been really properly there for me. He did things for me nobody has ever done. He made an effort. He treated me like ~ at the end too but even then he wasn't that bad. He just needed me gone because he can't do intimacy. He knows that and so do I.

He's lurking in the background now and I won't let him back to hurt me. He wants to be there for me. He managed to do that by busting my boundaries, it's like people have to hold me down to help me and get close. I loved him for doing that.

It's just so hard when I need somebody to just look after me and there's nobody there. Nobody, nothing. Just people who want stuff from me. I feel like I just can't do it all any more. I don't mean I'm suicidal- I just mean I never felt so alone and it feels so, so hard.

[Rose Tiger]

Hi Maria,

I feel like I can relate to your post so well.  People in my life are driving me batty, especially my coworkers.  Sometimes my thoughts are cussing like a sailor and I'm wondering, whoa!  Where did that come from?  I'm usually so easy going and laid back.  I so miss having somebody to tell my troubles to like I did my ex.  It rumbles around in my head and thoughts with no outlet.  I feel like I work on the island of misfit toys with the most dysfunctional people on earth.

I'm trying to figure why I am so annoyed with them, they didn't bug me that much while I was going through hell with the ex.  Is it the lack of having ex to be lamenting about, that I'm transferring to lamenting about people I work with, like it's some sort of coping mechanism in me?  I want to be like Michelle Kwan, the ice skater that said, I don't focus on competing with the other skaters, I focus on besting my last performance.  I wonder if others of us at this stage of recovery are dealing with other people getting on their nerves. 

[maria1]

Hi Rose Tiger- well, even if they aren't any other out there going through it, it really helps me to know that you are! I suppose the thing is we re social beings and the recovery we are going through is a lonely one. It's made even lonelier because we've learned to see people and ourselves in a very different light.

Pruning my life right down to the roots is drastic and there's not much left! Maye it's the real loneliness we have to go through to reform and grow but I just wish I could see more good out there than I do bad right now

[Rose Tiger]

Yes, pruning out the unhealthy people in our lives is probably part of recovery.  If you are quitting smoking, it's not good to hang out with smoking buddies.  The lonliness is hard, not having a good support group is hard.  I do enjoy my older daughter, she is great.  I wish she didn't live so far away. 

What are some things you used to enjoy before you got involved with your ex, do any of those sound good?  I'm trying to think of adventures that will put some joy back in the mix for me.  Rebuilding from the ground up. 

[turtle]

Hi Maria1

I went through this process that you are describing.

As I became healthier, I looked around me and realized that I had a whole gaggle of unhealthy people in my world and the balance was way off.  I was the one always doing, giving, planning, fetching, etc.  In the middle of my healing, I knew I didn't like that, but, I was comfortable with them... .  they were a known entity. They were grandfathered in, so to speak.

And... .  as I started evaluating things, I realized that my best friend of about 13 years was the worst of the lot.  In examining things, I really had to take a look at all of the horrible behavior I had tolerated from this "friend."  I was in denial about these behaviors because to look at them meant I would have to DO something I didn't want to do.

You mention your friend missing your birthday party.  At face value, that doesn't seem like such a big deal, so we just roll with it.  As we get healthier, we realize that yes... .  it IS a big deal and it speaks volumes about the condition of the friendship.  It then becomes our responsibility to either eliminate these friendships, or put them in their proper perspective.  It's a hard process, but really... .  what value is there in a friendship where reciprocity doesn't exist?  Not much.  These kinds of people make us feel like we're not alone, but in reality... .  we are.  Just because someone takes up space doesn't mean they are of value.  The worst feeling in the world is feeling lonely in a room full of "friends."

It takes time, but you will develop new relationships with friends that are not so dysfunctional.  When that happens, it's a great thing!  And... .  part of that process IS learning to be alone and resting in that peace.  It took me awhile to get to that point, but I DID and while I love being with my functional friends... .  my time alone is now a prized posession!

As far as being annoyed by others... .  this is still very present in my life.  My tolerance for bad behavior is ZERO and when I'm exposed to it, I get irritated.  VERY irritated.  In a situation like co-workers (or for me... .  customers,) I just have to remember that these people aren't really worth my energy, but when I'm in the moment... .  it's hard to remember that.  This used to grate on me way more than it does now, so I think I'm progressing to a place of balance - with learning what to confront and what to let go like water off a duck's back.

As with so many things, when we are aware of a different way of living... .  we tend to swing to the complete opposite side of the pendulum.  The good news is that balance will come.  I really do believe that!

turtle

[maria1]

I didn't really lose any of that stuff through being in the relationship with BPDex. I have found new stuff since that and during it like listening to live music and going to festivals but I think meeting him was part of a process of pattern breaking of my other relationships. He actually helped me to focus on my stuff more in a way- it was only as he became more attached that I could feel myself pulling away from the rest of my life. As I realised I might be getting stuck he realised I was starting to neglect my own needs and he actually did me a favour by ending it. Does that make any sense?

It was the other relationships that were actually more dysfunctional in a way- I was in greater denial to myself. I could be me when I was with him, now I'm me but I'm lonely

It's a shame your daughter's so far away- daughter's are great. Mine is 10- I miss her when she's away but it's nice to see her learning to be independent. Adventures sound good.

This weekend I'm off to the coast- I was going for a romantic weekend with recent ex but we split and he refused to take the money he'd paid for it and didn't want to go! I've invited a couple of girlfriends from work. Thing is I don't even like them very much right now! But I do really and I'm going to have a word with myself and enjoy it. Sea air and nice pubs and walks- I need to count my blessings!

[mamachelle]

I feel like I work on the island of misfit toys with the most dysfunctional people on earth.

  I wonder if others of us at this stage of recovery are dealing with other people getting on their nerves. 

Yes, I can relate. I'm also in a hiring position at my work so when I hire someone who appears wonderful at first but then engages in dysfunctional behaviors I'm hit with the double triple whammy of hiring, then discovering the issues, sometimes being triggered into memories of BPD ex, and sheer frustration that I may have to follow up and fire that person. I work in a creative field so there is a higher proportion of dysfunction I think. My boss is DXbipolar and is consumed with a series of family dramas constantly and work ones he creates. He is a friend but also very dysfunctional and a terrible manager 

It's hard some days as I feel like I am 'remote viewing' or seeing ahead into the problems others will have or will cause. I don't know if that makes sense but I feel like I'm the only one who is doing any self reflection and it is very lonely at times.

[maria1]

Hi Turtle

It's really hard isn't it? I didn't have a party for my birthday and so I didn't expect her to remember- I've forgotten hers before! But when I have I have rung or sent flowers or done something properly and genuinely to say I'm sorry and I care. I know that it will be because she is busy and has her own stuff. She will think I'm busy in my new relationship and all is fine so in some ways I'm being unfair by just expecting her to come running. Why should she expect me to behave any different when I've gone through something she doesn't really understand?

But last time I saw her I felt differently- I didn't like her as much. I don't like her complaints about her partner and her unwillingness to do anything about it. She liked the sound of my last relationship because it was all sensible and ordered. I didn't like it because I didn't feel anything! We have always seen things very differently about love. She chose a partner she liked but didn't really love. She says she has grown to love him but she doesn't seem to like him very much.

Partly she is right because feeling the way I do about love opens me up to dysfunctional relationships but I'm finding the coldness too much.

I like my new friend who is dysfunctional but aware of her issues. She was a drug user for a long time before having children and she still struggles with alcohol and with impulsive behaviour. But she knows she does and she is waiting for therapy and facing up to stuff. I think that's what I need right now. I don't think I'll ever be able to be friends with 'healthy from birth' people, people who have never gone through dark stuff.

But I also worry I'm actually BPD because I'm shedding all these friends and have shed dysfunctional friends in the past- that it's me who is in denial.

[turtle]

I don't think I'll ever be able to be friends with 'healthy from birth' people, people who have never gone through dark stuff.

Well, I don't know anyone who hasn't ever gone through dark stuff.  Sure, there are people who have gone through way worse than others, but as you get to know people, it seems that everyone has had to cope with, or overcome something.  In the circle of friends that I have now, EVERY single person has struggled and still struggles with something.  It's their reaction to those difficulties that makes the difference.  Like you, I want to be around people who are self aware and on a forward path.  That doesn't mean they're perfect... .  No one is.  And... .  just as an example... .  one of these women is someone who I thought was pretty perfect.  As I got to know her and learned about the struggles she has faced, I was overwhelmed with respect for her reaction to those struggles.

But I also worry I'm actually BPD because I'm shedding all these friends and have shed dysfunctional friends in the past- that it's me who is in denial.

Shedding dysfunctional friends (or reassigning their importance) isn't a sign of BPD.  At least not in my opinion -- buy hey -- what do I know, I'm just a turtle.  In my mind, shedding dysfunctional friends because you are moving on with your own mental and emotional health is necessary and prudent!

If you don't want to be a crack head, you don't hang out in a crack house, right?

I understand about your 20 year friend.  Friendships go through ups and downs.  They go through times of closeness and distance.  Maybe you don't need to do anything about this "friend" right now.  Maybe you just need a little distance to determine how you really feel about her and what her proper place in your life should be.  Maybe she will still be a friend, but she won't have the importance in your life that she used to have.  That is OKAY!

Defining these relationships can be difficult, but the fact that you are thinking about it shows movement and it's forward motion.  I know it might not feel like it, but it's a GOOD thing!

turtle

[maria1]

Yes- I think we may or may not survive our friendship. What you say makes me realise it's OK to just let it be for now because I need to be different in how I interact with her and that's the growth. That will test the friendship and I think I will probably be able to talk to her about it. We will see.

I feel very low. I think I am in acceptance and grieving for all sorts of things and it is all good I suppose. Thank you 

Hi Mamachelle- somebody said to me once you are aware of these things you can't un know them- ignorance is indeed bliss in some ways. It takes a little while to get to know someone and when we do we sure can be disappointed.

I think what we are struggling with is codependency. Have you read 'Codependent no more' by Melody Beattie? It's really helping me see some stuff about me but also aboout others around me!

The two friends I am going away with this weekend are absolute codependents in very different ways. They would also vehemently deny that they are!

[morningagain]

Maria,

When I think about your story with regards to your long time friend, it reminds me of when I reconnected with my Aunt about a year before my separation.  I felt so bad about not contacting her or replying to a few messages she had left with me over the previous year or two, and I tried apologizing.  She kindly interjected and told me she got to the point that it is OK, that if someone has been gone for awhile, then reconnects, it is OK in that moment - she does not know what they have gone through or their state of being.  She gave me the freedom to feel remorse, which I still did, yet feel OK and accepted, and what it does for her is give her great inner peace among other things.  Still, those pangs hit me when people I care about and love stay away, but my Aunt's quiet example means more to me and helps me more than my pain of my actions and of others.



Michael

[P.F.Change]

Cross-posted

Hey, Maria.

I can understand why you're hurting... .  we all long to connect wih others and to feel understood. It is hard to be lonely. I feel that way myself sometimes.

It sounds to me like you have been choosing to put everyone else's needs and feelings above your own for a long time. Can you think of any ways boundaries can help you? How else can you care for yourself?

Re: your "best" friend... .  Does it have to be all-or-nothing? Would it be possible to acknowledge that she is not really what you are needing from a best friend relationship without "giving her up" completely? Have you considered talking with her about how her behavior makes you feel? Does a best friend have to agree with you about everything, or can you respect each other's differences? Just because you do not see eye to eye about love or make the same choices does not mean one of you is wrong.

Re: your friend's ex. If you do not like him and don't want to listen to him, why do you? What would it be like to tell him to leave you alone?

Re: the guy you were dating. If you know what it is like to be in a r/s with someone who has been abused, and you know you need distance from that kind of person, how is that awful? Do you worry more about hurting other people's feelings than you do about hurting your own? Your needs and feelings matter, and you deserve to take care of yourself. Other people will find ways to take care of themselves.

Re: taking sick leave at work. Are you a mind-reader? How do you know what people will think of you? And even if they did think badly of you, so what? Don't you deserve to have needs and take care of yourself? Just because one person malingers doesn't mean everyone does. What exactly "should" you be able to "cope" with? Are you supposed to be so perfect that you never get sick or need a break? Are you not supposed to be susceptible to stress that would wear anyone else out?

I hear you saying you need to be taken care of. That is a valid need that we all have. I am wondering if that is a deeper wound from your childhood... .  were you allowed to have needs? Even if no one else is able to take care of you the way you want, YOU can. I'm not saying we don't need meaningful relationships... .  but you are the only person who is always with you. You can be a friend to yourself or you can be an enemy... .  you can matter to you or not. You deserve to be cared for, and that starts in you.

What are some ways you can take care of your own needs?

Wishing you peace,

PF

[maria1]

Hi Michael- it's a nice way of looking at it- thank you. I've always thought good friends can come and go and be allowed to be quiet sometimes. I think I 'feel' that she will let things drift if I don't work at it. She has said in the past that she thinks I disappear when I am in a relationship. I think it's more that I rely on her less and don't feel like I'm badgering her as much!

PF Change- good questions thank you:

Re: your "best" friend... .  Does it have to be all-or-nothing? Would it be possible to acknowledge that she is not really what you are needing from a best friend relationship without "giving her up" completely? Have you considered talking with her about how her behavior makes you feel? Does a best friend have to agree with you about everything, or can you respect each other's differences? Just because you do not see eye to eye about love or make the same choices does not mean one of you is wrong. I have already been through these things with her a little. I like the fact that we don't see eye to eye on love- it refreshes my thinking and challenges me. It was helpful to me to explore a new relationship with her perspective. We have already reframed the friendship and we haven't had frequent contact for a while now. Last time we met I gently challenged her on some stuff she is going through at work and it may have been too much as she is finding it all hard. She feels her boss is manipulating her but at the point in the discussion where we got to a point of her doing anything about it she shrank away and turned it back to not being as bad as she first said- we sort of went round in circles.

My friend's ex is difficult because he is the father of a good friend of my 10 year old daughter. I would avoid him and had started too but he comes and collects his son from my house each week when he comes for tea. My daughter really enjoys it so I don't want to stop it BUT I should think about laying a boundary around the time he stays. That will be hard for me to do as I think friend's ex will have a tiff and sulk. He is even more emotionally immature than ANYBODY I have ever met including BPDex! I have been thinking to myself this morning I need to do that or stop complaining though!

The thing is I do sort of know what I'm doing and how I'm behaving re the sick leave and re meeting everybody elses needs. I just find it so hard changing my behaviour. I'm on a waiting list for psychodynamic therapy. Tried CBT but never even got to the CBT bit with the therapist on the NHS (UK)

It is a deeper wound from my childhood. My needs weren't met and I never even knew I had any really! Nothing nasty or abusive just all the energy went toward my (disordered I realise now) older brother. I was the quiet one who just got on with it while he was taking drugs, getting arrested and trampling all over anything I might have got for myself any chance he got. I was told I was 'over sensitive' if I got upset about anything.

I'm trying to look after myself and I'm starting by saying no to some things and asserting myself in these friendships is a big move for me. This morning I had to tell my friend who is separating something difficult to do with our children walking to school. It's to do with her husband (the one I don't like) having let my daughter down and then lied about it. Instead of just reflecting all the difficulty back on to me to soak up I had an honest conversation with her. I told her how I was feeling and, when she wanted to 'fix' things between me and her husband and my dauhter I said not to. I should have had that conversation with him too though!

Oh and the thing about the abuse with my ex I dated - yes it was very much partly that I didn't want to hurt his feelings but also I didn't want to judge him just on the fact that he was abused. That seemed unfair. But then I suppose because it seemed unfair I would have set aside what I needed- I didn't in the end though and the relationship ended although I didn't do it in the most up front of ways and sort of manipulated him into a corner I think.

[maria1]

Also what seems to be hardest of all for me to cope with right now is denial. I am working so hard on my own denial and I can't play along with anybody else's. that means I am going to say it how it is instead if pretending with people I have to keep in my life, or I am just going to withdraw from them. By playing Ito other people's denial I usually end up taking stuff on myself and I can't do that any more. Dont know if that makes sense really- for example my ex's husband appears to me to have lied about trying to ring me on an occasion when my daughter was scheduled to walk with his son. My friend says he wouldn't lie. I know he lies and the only way to solve it the way my friend wants is for me to lie to my daughter. I might have done that previously to keep everybody happy but no chance now.

[Claire]

It's just so hard when I need somebody to just look after me and there's nobody there. Nobody, nothing. Just people who want stuff from me. I feel like I just can't do it all any more. I don't mean I'm suicidal- I just mean I never felt so alone and it feels so, so hard.

Hugs, Maria    At least you're not alone here, for whatever that is worth.

I can relate to so much that you and others have said throughout this post. Loneliness has been a major thread through my life growing up as the daughter of a BPD mother. Especially now, as a young adult, independent of my parents and unmarried, I'm very, very lonely.  What helps me (kind of) is to name the loneliness and just be with it. For me, emotions are this huge confusing jungle, and even naming which one I'm feeling is helpful. It also helps me to rationalize my emotion. For example, I'm feeling lonely because I just saw an exchange between a mother and her daughter, and that makes me very aware of my own lack of such relationship, whether as the mother or the daughter. In fact, I don't have anyone who is "family" right now in the sense that they are committed to me. So it really IS a truly lonely place. It makes sense to feel this emotion right now. (I'm not crazy, etc)

Someone (can't find it again to quote it) was talking about reacting strongly toward others (or unhealthy individuals?). Totally relate to that as well... .  lately I have zero tolerance for unhealthy thinking in anyone I meet. Part of that is that I need to have zero tolerance for my own unhealthy thoughts. I'm working so hard on recognizing them and fighting them off every single day! So when they come up with others (even practical strangers), I just can't take it and become very angry... .  

[maria1]

Hi Claire 

I guess it's the lonely child that we need to get back to and reconnect with to strip away all the maladaptive coping mechanisms we have put in place over a lifetime.

My mum died when I was 18 and so I have no idea whether I would have a healthy relationship with her now. I realise you can be lonely with people in your life just as much as when they aren't, maybe more so.

We can, I believe, in time and slowly as we heal, make our own families within ourselves and within real friendships. I need to have faith that I can do that. It comes and goes. This place really helps when I have a wobble.

[morningagain]

Hey Maria  

I soo feel for you.  Been thinking about loneliness a lot over the last week in particular.  I was so lonely with her, lonely without... .  figured out I have been lonely my whole life.

The last few days, for the first time in my life, I have been so much less lonely with myself whether I am alone or with other people.  I think it has to do with starting to feel stronger about living my values and some mild successes in holding my boundaries (I do not like the term 'defending' - holding boundaries has to do with me, not someone else - 'defending' implies I am being attacked and therefore a victim)

No doubt in my mind that coming to truly love myself starts with a more honest look at myself.  I could never have done so without my BPDw, or the people that have loved and supported me, including the wonderful folks here.  So thank you, Maria  

I discovered I never did understand what "loving yourself" meant.  Just figured I did.  Whoa was I wrong.  I loved a 'fantasy' about myself and hid my ugly truths from myself.  To love the whole person, I need to include the whole person, and I have made a lot of progress.

If I think of anything that might help, I will be sure to re-post.  Hoping this helps you, if even just a little.

 

Michael

[maria1]

It does help Michael, it truly does- thank you. It also truly helps to see you here in a different way right now. You seem solid, more sure of who you are. You seem to have dropped the anger and the hatred and moved into a peace which moves me. Good for you my friend   x

[gina louise]

Maria1,

Me too, me too, me too.   "Hi!"

after my HUSBAND and I split I began to realize just how FOG'ed in a few of my friend  r/s were-how slightly off balance they felt and how they didn't have time to listen to my pain once I began to speak.

But they vented to me at length and olny when they had real problems. I was their toxic waste dump. They loved me for this kind service I performed. I listened and didn't judge and let them vent over and over... .  

I was so concerned with their feelings that I neglected mine for a long while... .  just like I had with my H. Putting others first began for me in my FOO, and it's a difficult and complicated habit to break.

But like you I know I have to do this-to separate and to protect myself, my soul, my energies.

I felt it when I started getting irritated with them- their stories of pain and woe antagonized me! I was less able to give, give and give. I knew something was happening within me.

I was finding a LIMIT, a limit to my need to give!

I know that putting real and emotional distance between me and HUSBAND helps me to heal. And I need to do the same with these friends and co-workers who don't give me back even a little of the energy and love they drain from me.

I need to place a stiffer boundary and a retaining wall around ME and my needs.

I need to be more assertive when they refuse to hear me, as my HUSBAND used to.

I am trying to extricate myself gently- for them and for me. To be busy or not answer when they call to use me as their emotional dumping ground. To draw back, with compassion. To recognize and defer to my own Self for once.

To stay further away-if that's what I NEED. Saving others is not what MY Soul is FOR!

Not anymore.

You are not a alone here!

GL

[morningagain]

It does help Michael, it truly does- thank you. It also truly helps to see you here in a different way right now. You seem solid, more sure of who you are. You seem to have dropped the anger and the hatred and moved into a peace which moves me. Good for you my friend   x

Thank you Maria, again    And yes, what you just said about me resonates truth.  It feels really good to 'hear' you say that, with no lingering 'downside' of my progress (like anger or hatred or resentment that may have some utility in a partial detachment, but are poisons in my soul nevertheless)

And so glad for you that my words and my own progress have helped you.  HEY!  How cool is this?  I get to be a good guy and a help without being a 'rescuer', or a 'victim', or a 'persecutor'.  

BIG   !

Michael

[gina louise]

maria1,

I had an older sister who was also disordered, and she too got the time, attention and energies of my whole FOO directed towards her.  Growing up she was also the beautiful/tragically addicted one and I was the kid sister... .  so guess who got shoved to the bottom? they didn't even have to say it aloud, but when I objected-broken promises, cancelled plans, sister was in trouble again-I was told. Some things MATTER MORE. As a child I didn't understand, as a teen I struggled and it hurt me, as adult I tried very hard to be the better, bigger, more deeply understanding sibling. I learned that lesson well.

It began when we were pre-teen and carried through our middle age.

My parents were still paying my sisters rent when she was age 47.(not long ago)

My mothers last real words to me were "if anything happens to me-TAKE CARE of your sister!"

"?" Ever dutiful, I said Of course, But inside, I traitorously thought WHY?


I have very very LC with FOO.  On purpose.

GL

[maria1]

Michael- that just made me smile! 

[morningagain]

Michael- that just made me smile! 

 

[maria1]

Hi GL   Thank you for your posts. The disordered sibling is a strange one to deal with. My father was pretty self centred and narcissistic I think too. He just upped and moved the family every few years for his career with no thought to what effect that had on us. Probably the last thing a disordered boy needed!

When my brother died at the age of 34 my father felt terrible guilt because he felt relief also. All so messed up. My brother felt terrible guilt because my mother died of cancer and he blamed himself for her illness.

I was starting to see a pattern of 'fixing' relationships at the end of my relationship before the BPD ex. I was with a man who had been single for 10 years. He was great with my kids and he gave up his job to help me with the child care. He was an ex dope smoker and an absolute gaming addict. I didn't want to change him because I had spent the whole of my relationship with my children's father waiting for him to grow up. But that boyfriend kept going on about how he would just change himself. He was still seeing a possibility through my eyes though and I played straight into it. As soon as I saw the real him I just went cold on him. I realised I'd been living a fantasy.

I'm realising in my relationship with BPDex he really was trying to change. He knew he'd messed up with his ex wife and son. He knew his emotions got out of control. He would ask me for the answers. I tried to give my point of view, I tried not to control- I knew I'd been like that before and didn't want to be. I would see him desperately trying in a way I'd never seen anybody try before. I still see it now and I still love that in him. It takes such effort.

I wish I saw the same effort in others around me. If I could see someone with that effort who keeps trying and doesn't run away into disorder when it becomes too painful maybe I'll find new friends. Actually just writing that I can think of 2 people at least who are like that and who are real friends.

There are so many people on her like that too  

[myself]

Hi Maria, sorry to read you've been feeling lonely lately. It's true, you start whittling away at the stuff that weighs you down sometimes and there can end up not being much left over. It's freeing, but too quiet, too. I've been feeling it lately due to everyone around me being married, or they just got engaged, they're living with their girlfriend/boyfriend and etc. They all seem to 'have it made', at least compared to me, but when talking with them, they all have their problems going on, too. Everyone I know has issues, and more of them than not aren't even really working on them, so nothing changes.

I feel like your subject line, every day, adding in 'Healing' while lonely. One long-time friend calls me 'brother', and I was thinking recently, seeing as we barely talk much anymore and live far apart, that we're not really brothers. That's when I realized, he IS like my own real brother: distant, silent, with lingering unanswered questions, etc. What The FOO?

I think some of what you're (we're all) going through here is that we've had blinders on for so long, to so many different aspects of our lives, including those involved us, that once we start removing them, we see so clearly it's hard to stand it at first. It takes some real getting used to. Feeling healthy, and recognizing healthy, it's kind of like being in another world.

As we come to like and respect ourselves more and more, our friends will, too. If there aren't as many friends, the ones who have remained (or have been freshly found) will be truer deeper friends. They most likely will have stuff they're working on, and good for them. There'll be less stuff between us, then, because we'll still be working on our stuff, too.

One thing I've gotten out of this BPD experience is focusing on my own perspectives more. If I'm seeing what's going on around me as 'madness', it will seem more like madness, and will affect me more like madness. When I'm seeing things more peacefully, it feels more peaceful and I react more calmly. Even when it's MADNESS going on. I'm not yet able to completely be in control of that yet, but, maybe someday. Consistently balanced, I mean. This will help with loneliness, friendships, relationships, and all the rest of life. Sharing it with fairly clean connections, as best we can.

I know it's not the same, but you have LOTS of 'friends' here, Maria.    

[maria1]

Myself

Thank you so much. It has helped me so much just posting and getting these replies and realising what I'm going through is all part of it. I had a quiet day- dropped my kids at school after a difficult getting up time, spoke with my 'real' friend about some stuff we told each other we needed to do today- she was insecure about doing hers and so was I. We did it- she helped me and I helped her. I had that difficult conversation with 'friend' who is separating. Tried to remortgage my house which I've been putting off for months because I was scared of the answer which was, of course no! Facing up to reality of the debt I'm in and what I need to do about that.

Did some work, had a hot bath. Felt supported by folks on here, like there are people who get me out there. I'm not so alone. But I am too every day and that's part of what I have to go through. I can't fix this sadness overnight.

Decided to go NC with BPDex, decided I don't need to, that things are establishing a balance for me. Sort of.

It's a journey. I have no idea where I'm going. I really want to be loved and I just need to say that sometimes. Feeling the love from these boards though so thank you once again!

[gina louise]

Maria1,

You have been a consistently shining light for me here on these boards, as have many others-and that's what helps me feel less alone.  I value your honesty, your strength and your willingness to share your struggles.

Even when I was lying in bed next to my stbxBPDh, I could feel very lonely and alone... .  unnoticed, unwelcome.

SO it really does me a lot of good to feel the warmth and compassion from kindred souls.


it is a journey, and I am very appreciative to have fellow travelers such as you, and many others like myself(sounds funny!) and michael999 and ambi and rosetiger... .  and so many more.

GL

[ConfusedMichael]

Hi Maria, I hope you're doing better today.

I can certainly relate to a lot of what you're saying.  Just the other day I was speaking about some very similar stuff with my new OT, trying to explain how hard I sometimes find it to keep faith in close friends and family  - relationships I once took for granted.  A good friend said she'd give me a call for a chat two weeks in a row and forgot both times.  It's not a big thing, but in my current mindset just something like that can really sting.  I find myself getting similarly frustrated with family members over relatively small things.  It's difficult to keep perspective.  Some actions do show that people don't value us as highly as we thought, and we're better placed to recognise that now.  But in other cases it's easy for us to let our experiences turn molehills into mountains and be too harsh on those around us.  As my OT pointed out in my own case of the missed phone calls, I've isolated myself so much over the past year that just having those small chats was something that was on mind a lot over the past couple of weeks.  My friend is balancing a relationship, family life, a busy job and a new apartment.  If I were doing the same I likely wouldn't of given the missed call a second thought.  We'd simply chat next week instead.

My BPD ex too was the one person who I really felt understood me and made the effort to support me, at least until everything collapsed.  It's now been 13 months since I last heard her voice, but there still isn't a day that goes by without me missing her company.  For all her faults, she was my best friend, and a positive force in my life for a long time.  I know that's gone now, and like you I know there's no going back.  It still hurts.

[ambi]

But in other cases it's easy for us to let our experiences turn molehills into mountains and be too harsh on those around us.

I find that as I learn and practice new behaviors and responses, the pendulum swings a little too wide at first.  When I started learning to express my anger, it came out inappropriately at times.  It has taken some time to find balance.  The same thing with boundaries.  At first, I wanted my boundaries upheld no matter what.  If before, I had been to flexible, now I was inflexible.  It takes time to find that balance. 

[LetItBe]

But in other cases it's easy for us to let our experiences turn molehills into mountains and be too harsh on those around us.

I find that as I learn and practice new behaviors and responses, the pendulum swings a little too wide at first.

I am trying to find that balance, too.  I've recently reunited with my uBPDbf, and we both made so much progress in our learning and growth while we were apart.  I can tell he is being very mindful about how he interacts with me, tracing the source of his difficult feelings that arise back to himself instead of me, and I appreciate that.  I've been very encouraged, and he's made some realizations I wasn't sure would ever be possible for someone with BPD (before I learned that they can improve).  As well as things are going, I still find myself vacillating between trust and fear.  For example: Why did he not acknowledge that sweet quote I sent him?  Is he taking me for granted now?  Why did he not invite me to this family obligation he has to do today?  (Yet he's invited me on his family vacation several months from now.)  Yes, I have big abandonment issues, and the fact he broke up with me several months ago doesn't help.  I suppose this is a great topic for therapy!

[morningagain]

it is a journey, and I am very appreciative to have fellow travelers such as you, and many others like myself(sounds funny!) and michael999 and ambi and rosetiger... .  and so many more.

Me too