A great deal of sadness

[momtara]

It's a tough situation.

"I cannot imagine how traumatic it would be for our son to go a year without seeing his dad who is his entire world."

Yeah, that's the hard part of these situations.  Even if your husband was dangerous and vengeful, unless you have proof of really bad behavior, you can't keep him out of your son's life forever.  So keeping him on supervised visitation for 6 months-a year or whatever, just may make him build resentment for later, and hurt your son.  I understand your dilemma.  I think so far you are being smart. 

My child keeps asking to visit daddy, who only has visitation a few days a month.  Not sure how I'll handle this as my kids get older.  They may resent me.  He acts pretty loving when he's with them.  They don't know the other side.

It's too bad your husband was kept out of your daughters' lives.  A thought, though.  Maybe he's not telling the whole truth about why?

[allibaba]

It's too bad your husband was kept out of your daughters' lives.  A thought, though.  Maybe he's not telling the whole truth about why?

As twisted and sick as my husband is -- I'll defend him here.  He had a good relationship with his daughters, but his ex believes that they are hers and she owns them.  She was horribly jealous and resentful. 

I can say this because he had 1/2 custody of them... .He never spent any time with them alone... .I was always with them AND HE WAS A GOOD DAD.  She is a very very sick and evil woman.

[momtara]

That's too bad.  Well, how are you doing today?

[allibaba]

Awww thanks for asking Momtara!

I just had the absolute most peaceful Christmas that I have had in 10 yrs.  It was a wonderful day... .  I could finally relax.  I think its because I am no longer accountable to him (breaths sigh of relief). 

I had invited my husband to come over from 9-12 for breakfast and presents.  He declined (that would be the polite way of saying it - it actually included him spewing on text messaging for about an hour but I didn't read any of it... .I just responded well if you change your mind let me know.  He calmed down and asked if he could come over around lunchtime.  He spent 2 hrs with our son (and I am really glad that he did). 

I was ok with him being here (not nervous or anything) but happy when he walked back out the front door two hours later!

Not sure if this feeling will last or not but for today I am going to enjoy it.

Alli

[allibaba]

Well... .my husband called this morning and said that its his house and he's moving back in.   I calmly and quietly replied that if he comes, the police will already be here and he started spewing hatred.  Initially he said that he didn't care - just have him arrested. I hung up on him when the verbal abuse started.  He called back talking more calmly and I explained... .

"That this is no surprise - he got fair warning on the consequences of his actions if he couldn't behave in our house.  He crossed that line no less than 3 times in the last month and he's made his choices."

I guess that he realized that I was serious because he dropped it. 

For the last two hours he has been texting my phone.  Throwing everything in creation at me.  Manipulation to threats to more manipulation and back again.  I reiterated one last time that if he gets help, lives on his own for a year, then we can date and make a go of it while he is working on himself.  I also explained that if we get divorced and he gets a settlement then there is no going back - no hope.  I want to be clear on that because I could see him taking the money/ blowing it and then coming back in a year when it runs out.

[Matt]

Well... .my husband called this morning and said that its his house and he's moving back in.   I calmly and quietly replied that if he comes, the police will already be here and he started spewing hatred.  Initially he said that he didn't care - just have him arrested. I hung up on him when the verbal abuse started.  He called back talking more calmly and I explained... .

"That this is no surprise - he got fair warning on the consequences of his actions if he couldn't behave in our house.  He crossed that line no less than 3 times in the last month and he's made his choices."

I guess that he realized that I was serious because he dropped it. 

For the last two hours he has been texting my phone.  Throwing everything in creation at me.  Manipulation to threats to more manipulation and back again.  I reiterated one last time that if he gets help, lives on his own for a year, then we can date and make a go of it while he is working on himself.  I also explained that if we get divorced and he gets a settlement then there is no going back - no hope.  I want to be clear on that because I could see him taking the money/ blowing it and then coming back in a year when it runs out.

Here's how it works where I live:

The person who lives there has the right to come and go as she chooses, and to change the locks, and to call the police if anybody tries to get in without her permission.

Doesn't matter who is on the lease, or on the mortgage, or who pays for the place - all of that is irrelevant.

The person who doesn't live there - even if he owns the place! - has no right to come there without your permission.

It might be good to check and see if the law is the same where you live, and if you haven't changed the locks, do that.  And let the police know what is going on.

You might also consider the kind of e-mail my lawyer told me to write, after my ex came into my home when I was gone:  ":)o not come to my home without my permission."  Then if he violates that, you can show a judge that you tried, and get a restraining order or "Order Of Protection" to keep him off the property.

[allibaba]

Matt,

Its the same here.  I'm just glad that he is out now.  I do plan on and need to get the locks changed. 

He went through a full cycle today where he 'pleaded for another chance.  Promised that he would get help.  For real this time.'  I told him that he could live somewhere else for a year and get help while seeing us regularly (therapeutic separation) but I got called Mrs Hitler after that and things went downhill .

Then he spent an hour convincing me to go on a 2 week honeymoon in Costa Rica with him.  I politely declined (our last major issue was on a holiday that was supposed to be our FRESH START). 

This really is a sick sick disease 

[Matt]

He went through a full cycle today where he 'pleaded for another chance.  Promised that he would get help.  For real this time.'  I told him that he could live somewhere else for a year and get help while seeing us regularly (therapeutic separation) but I got called Mrs Hitler after that and things went downhill .

Was this by text, or e-mail, or phone, or face-to-face?

[momtara]

"I reiterated one last time that if he gets help, lives on his own for a year, then we can date and make a go of it while he is working on himself."

Just make sure that you're going to be okay with that after a year.  With my hubby, I told him that it would take AT LEAST a year before we could live together again, if ever, and he heard that as "we can get back together after a year."  He still had a lot to work on after a year.  (But our situation was complicated by being in a divorce, so we couldn't really work together on the counseling, which would have helped).  It's a fine offer to make, but maybe you should throw a 'maybe' in there... .just in case after a year you are not ready.  You'll still be married, right?  So all is not lost.  It is a risk either way, I'll grant you.

Anyway, sounds like you handled it right.  I know it's hard when they tell you everything you want to hear and seem so vulnerable.  And yes, it is a cruel disease, because they mean it as they are saying it.  Then after that they say things like Mrs. Hitler.

I would have probably tried a little longer to work it out with my husband if it was only limited to calling me names (not that that's ok), but threats (even not physical threats), isolation, all those things, are just unacceptable.  I know he threatened stuff to you and that's just not an OK way to live.  No normal person does that.  They should go out of their way to make you comfortable in your own home, not scared.

Hang in there.  I know you care about him.  You know, my husband at first kept pressing me to let him back in right away.  Eventually he was accepting of having to be out of the house for a while.  Now he says he may still want to get back together after a few years of counseling.  So if you are firm with your boundaries, you may be able to get him into the right help and not be rushed, if that's what you want.  At the very least, you want him to get counseling either way, as you will have to deal with him all your life.  (Or maybe it'd be best if you just try to make it so that he steps out of your life.  I know that's hard since you love him, but it's an option.  Part of me wishes he'd move far away, and part of me is afraid of being alone.)

My husband wanted back in right away.  After months of my setting boundaries, he is staying counseling and is accepting of how things are and that he can't come home too soon.  Luckily his counselor tells him what he did wrong so he has to take some responsibility.

[livednlearned]

Matt,

Its the same here.  I'm just glad that he is out now.  I do plan on and need to get the locks changed. 

He went through a full cycle today where he 'pleaded for another chance.  Promised that he would get help.  For real this time.'  I told him that he could live somewhere else for a year and get help while seeing us regularly (therapeutic separation) but I got called Mrs Hitler after that and things went downhill .

Then he spent an hour convincing me to go on a 2 week honeymoon in Costa Rica with him.  I politely declined (our last major issue was on a holiday that was supposed to be our FRESH START). 

This really is a sick sick disease 

Meaning that you will continue to file for divorce, but might not go through with it in a year (if he meets your conditions)?

[allibaba]

He went through a full cycle today where he 'pleaded for another chance.  Promised that he would get help.  For real this time.'  I told him that he could live somewhere else for a year and get help while seeing us regularly (therapeutic separation) but I got called Mrs Hitler after that and things went downhill .

Was this by text, or e-mail, or phone, or face-to-face?

  It was by messenger and I emailed the conversation to myself.

Meaning that you will continue to file for divorce, but might not go through with it in a year (if he meets your conditions)?

We'll draw up a separation agreement and then in a year when we are eligible we'll make a decision on divorce.

So... .he's full court press now.  Has admitted to his friends and family how he has behaved (admitted to physical violence towards me to his family)... .apparently contacted the priest that married us... .gave his heart to god (I'll believe it when I see it)... .asked to come over today to spend time with our son and to get whatever materials I collected on DBT, biofeedback therapist, contact details for psychiatrist... .  I gave him a time frame that he could be here and he was here.

I did get a hearty chuckle out of the way that he described his situation to his family.  He basically told his brothers that "He got put on probation due to bad behavior (mainly breaking doors and name calling) and then messed up and got chucked out on his @ss right before Christmas with nothing."  Apparently his family told him that he deserved to be in a cold motel room for the holidays.

The priest called to congratulate me on my handling of the situation and reiterate to NOT LET MY HUSBAND MOVE BACK IN.

Now my husband is calling all of this HIS CHRISTMAS MIRACLE... .his life changing moment.

I reiterated to him that he should get help if he wants to get help for himself.  That that may not change things for me.  (its been a very long journey that brought me to this point)

The psychologist gave me a bunch of info on DBT and he called to say it didn't apply to him because he wasn't suicidal and didn't burn or cut himself... .then called back maybe an hour later somewhat blown away because he said that it was exactly the therapy he needs.

I told him that I want to be in a marriage where I feel loved and appreciated and validated consistently and if he can't provide that - I am moving on.  I need to be with someone who works consistently and does not spent all of our money on stuff for himself.  He begged me to give him a year (to try to fix himself) before I start dating other people (furthest thing from my mind).  My first order of business this year is to TRAVEL and I told him that I want permission to take our son travelling when I can!

[KateCat]

Oh, my gosh, Allibaba! I hope you have people in your life aplenty to confirm to you continuously that you have performed your own Christmas miracle.

What a gift to your son, and what a gift the priest is giving you by urging you not to let your husband back in. 

And what a gift this boundary may even prove to be to your husband.    It's up to him now.

[momtara]

Great job.  Whether they are able to make that kind of a change for the long term, I don't know, but I'd certainly like to believe it. 

I'd also like to believe that not all cases of BPD turn out exactly the same, especially if they are atypical BPD. 

My worry is that it is very hard to change someone who has been a certain way for a lot of years.  WIth new year's resolutions, we swear we are going to diet.  What happens?  After a few months we fall back into old patterns, no matter how motivated we were.  Real change takes a long time.

[Matt]

I read a study a year or two back, by a group affiliated with Harvard Medical School, that said more than 80% of people with BPD who get treatment, and stay with it for 5 years, show remission of major symptoms;  that is, if I understand right, they no longer act like what we think of as "BPD".

The problem is that most people with BPD don't get treatment, or don't stay with it.

Not sure what you can expect within a year, but I think if he is committed to getting help, you'll see some big improvement.

[allibaba]

THANK YOU ALL FOR SUCH WONDERFUL VALIDATION.  I feel so grateful that there is not one person (in real life or on these boards) telling me that I am making bad decisions here... .even before my husband publicly admitted to his anger issues and violent behavior.

I read a study a year or two back, by a group affiliated with Harvard Medical School, that said more than 80% of people with BPD who get treatment, and stay with it for 5 years, show remission of major symptoms;  that is, if I understand right, they no longer act like what we think of as "BPD".

The problem is that most people with BPD don't get treatment, or don't stay with it.

Not sure what you can expect within a year, but I think if he is committed to getting help, you'll see some big improvement.

The beautiful thing here Matt is that I honestly don't have a preference on which way this journey goes at the moment.  I (now) do not believe in my heart that my husband has what it takes to get better.  I will grant him the time and space to prove me wrong.  I guess that this is my Christmas miracle. I know that I deserve better in this life and so does our son.  I can say that the codependency that I developed as a child to interact with my uBPD mom is gone (or at least treated enough that the symptoms aren't causing me issues anymore... .)  I posted honestly on these boards for almost a year and many many times people gently suggested leaving.  

I didn't because

1.  I wasn't ready

2. I hadn't fairly and honestly stood up to my husband (his description of being put on probation tells me that I successfully did this)

3.  I still felt able to protect our son against my husband's behavior during the rage (rage never targeted him but I frequently would grab our son just before the rage started and put him in his car seat and then I went back inside to gently but strongly stand up to my husband.)  The reason that I tightened standards up even more over the last couple of months is that I could tell that our son was now VERY aware of the behavior and it was starting to impact him more and more.  The reason that I knew this was that people like KateCat, patientandclear, momtara (and many others posting on this same thread) wouldn't let me put my head in the sand regarding this point (thank you).

The time came and everything fell into place because I am no longer scared of losing this relationship.  It will improve or I won't be in it anymore (my mantra for the last few months).

Its a huge blessing that even the priest agrees on this point.

My husband is once again coming today to play and spend time with our son.  Its a little tiring but I know in my heart that allowing him to do this is best for him and for our son.

[Matt]

I went through something similar, in a different way... .

December 2006, after 10 years of marriage, my wife completely melted down - became violent - called the police and made serious false accusations - we both spent a night in jail.  I decided this could not go on, and talked to two attorneys - one to handle my criminal defense (which was successful) and the other for divorce.

But I decided not to file yet.  My wife filed for divorce, because she thought that would be best for her financially.  I got a place a few blocks away so the kids could walk from one house to the other, and take the same bus to school.  My wife suggested counseling and I agreed;  the guy wasn't effective so we quit after a few sessions.  But we agreed to keep the divorce on hold for a while longer, and she found another counselor, and I agreed again.

This counselor met with us together, and then separately, and told me about BPD.  She recommended "Stop Walking On Eggshells", which brought me here.

My view through that period - by this time almost a year after we separated - was that I would do everything I could to save the marriage, for the kids (then 8 and 10).  Whatever either of the counselors suggested I agreed to, and followed through.  And I was open with both the counselors and with my wife:  I believed she had some sort of problem, and needed to deal with that, or it would not be safe for me to be alone with her.  My wife talked all around it, and the first counselor let her get away with that, so nothing was accomplished.  But the second counselor nudged her toward treatment.

Finally my wife made it clear:  She did not believe she had a problem and she was not interested in treatment of any sort.  We talked about that with the counselor til it was super-clear - she had made up her mind.  That's when I made my decision:  the marriage could not be saved, and I had done my best, so it was time to move on.  I told them both that I would move ahead with the divorce, and shifted my focus from counseling to the legal process, and about 8 months later the divorce was final.

Almost a year spent trying to save the marriage, but it wasn't a waste of time or money, because that's what I needed to do, for myself and for the kids.

[ForeverDad]

If he says he's doing it for you, then any 'miracle insight' moments he has had probably won't last.  (Remember, words and promises mean nothing, long term actions are what count.)  He would have to do it for himself, knowing that a change in himself would not bring you back.  If you told him, get in therapy for a year and then I'll come back, for all we know he might be able to manage a year and then relapse back to old patterns once you were back.  Remember, this is about him, for him getting on the path to recovery, you can't be the reason.  Well, you too, separately, for your new boundaries.  But the marriage, well, this is way too soon to give it any realistic hope.

[allibaba]

If he says he's doing it for you, then any 'miracle insight' moments he has had probably won't last.  (Remember, words and promises mean nothing, long term actions are what count.)  He would have to do it for himself, knowing that a change in himself would not bring you back.  If you told him, get in therapy for a year and then I'll come back, for all we know he might be able to manage a year and then relapse back to old patterns once you were back.  Remember, this is about him, for him getting on the path to recovery, you can't be the reason.  Well, you too, separately, for your new boundaries.  But the marriage, well, this is way too soon to give it any realistic hope.

I told him that he's out of this house for at least a year (period - no negotiation).  I told him that even then I'm not sure that I want him back.  I had a rare mini moment yesterday... .I TOLD HIM THAT I DESERVE TO FEEL LOVED, VALIDATED AND RESPECTED by my husband.  If he can't give me that then I will give it to myself.  I told him that I will give him the time to figure it out and he can spend as much time as he wants with our son... .as long as he behaves.

To his credit - he said he was watching COPS on the tv in his motel room last night and it was an episode on DV.  He said that he was surprised to realize that his behavior was far worse than that of the people on tv being hauled off to jail.  He had an ah ha most that he is abusive. 

Thanks for sharing Matt.  I am very comfortable knowing that I have done my best... .at this point I have realized that life without my husband is actually easier... .that being said... .I am still dedicated to my marriage so I won't completely close the door yet.

[momtara]

Sounds good, and you do deserve to be treated well!

"and he can spend as much time as he wants with our son... .as long as he behaves."

Be careful about making promises like that.  Those things stick in BPD's minds.  You may not want to let him spend 'as much time,' esp. if he uses son to guilt you.

[livednlearned]

I TOLD HIM THAT I DESERVE TO FEEL LOVED, VALIDATED AND RESPECTED by my husband.  If he can't give me that then I will give it to myself. 

This is not a mini moment, this is a HUGE important gigantic moment. It's the key to everything. It's a core value about you, and if you focus on this, everything else will follow. Fill your cup, allibaba! Hang onto this insight and build it up big big big. 

[allibaba]

I TOLD HIM THAT I DESERVE TO FEEL LOVED, VALIDATED AND RESPECTED by my husband.  If he can't give me that then I will give it to myself. 

This is not a mini moment, this is a HUGE important gigantic moment. It's the key to everything. It's a core value about you, and if you focus on this, everything else will follow. Fill your cup, allibaba! Hang onto this insight and build it up big big big. 

Ha ha - I guess it wasn't a mini moment !  It was the first time in our decade long relationship that I told him that I literally DEMAND what I deserve in life. 

I am smart, I am beautiful, I am successful and I am incredibly COMPETENT.  He talks so darn much that I actually had to tell him to SHUT UP and LISTEN because I would only say this once!  Poor guy... .he was totally and completely shocked.  To his credit, he is not shocked that he's out of the house... .at least he owns that part... .

As a funny little side note, since I kicked my husband out... .our dogs are acting like I am the freaking dog whisperer.  I say jump and they politely ask HOW HIGH MOM... . 

Don't worry momtara, I have made it quite clear to my husband that I control the schedules with our son.

[livednlearned]

I TOLD HIM THAT I DESERVE TO FEEL LOVED, VALIDATED AND RESPECTED by my husband.  If he can't give me that then I will give it to myself. 

This is not a mini moment, this is a HUGE important gigantic moment. It's the key to everything. It's a core value about you, and if you focus on this, everything else will follow. Fill your cup, allibaba! Hang onto this insight and build it up big big big. 

Ha ha - I guess it wasn't a mini moment !  It was the first time in our decade long relationship that I told him that I literally DEMAND what I deserve in life. 

I am smart, I am beautiful, I am successful and I am incredibly COMPETENT. 

Aaaaaaaand you are a dog whisperer. 

Truth? When you feel that way about yourself, then you attract people who agree with you. People who are abusive don't want you to know that, because then they think you'll leave and find someone better. Turns out that insulting you, hurting you, controlling you and being mean to you is a losing strategy. Opposite of what they were going for.

Keep filling your cup up up up!

[allibaba]

What a long crazy trip this has been (metaphorically speaking!)... .   Since the 22nd of December the following has happened:

In a nutshell - I kicked him out - followed by 3 days of silence and bitterness (Dec 22nd)

Said he was moving back in whether I liked it or not - I countered with the cops would be here if he came. (Dec 26th)  Followed by 24 hours of BPD texting.

Then it was "I won't make it out here without you" - I countered with "should have though about that before you became violent."

Then it was "All we need is time away together" - I countered with "we tried that."

Then it was "I'm sorry - I need help - I'll get better." He even admitted his behavior to friends and family.  Explained that while I enabled him for a long time, but that I stopped about a year ago and the issues are his not mine - I countered with "you are out for 6 months maybe more regardless."

Then it was "We should move back home together"  - countered with "relocating - we tried that."

Which all led to a critical meltdown in which he realized that he has hit bottom.  He has arranged to be admitted into inpatient treatment (addiction + mental illness) which will last for 3-12 months.  He went home (to his family) to wait for admission.

He says that he will make all of this up to me regardless of whether I take him back or not (says that he is selling his possessions to pay me back financially and will work and get the help necessary to be a good father regardless of if he needs to move down the road so that our son can run back and forth between houses).  I told him that talk is cheap. 

He has given me free travel permission, told me that he is too sick to take any custody of our son, has told me that all he wants is a year to try to get better (in inpatient treatment)... . and if he can't make some progress then we need to file for divorce.  Its like the BPD has disappeared and a shell of a man is left.

I took him to the airport before he left and he was shaking and scared like a little boy. 

So everything that I have ever wanted has happened... . all my husband wants is to get help now... . and he's made all the arrangements to get help himself.

And he's been out of the house since December 22nd and I have never been happier.  Still waiting for the other shoe to drop and for me to have a critical meltdown but it hasn't come yet.  All I see is the positives of living a healthy life with our son.  Not sure how I am going to handle things if he gets treatment and gets better... . but that is something to worry about another day... .

[Matt]

Wow, this is encouraging.

My adult son went to residential treatment for addiction - two stints of six months each - and it helped a lot.  I don't think an addict can be "fixed" - he'll always be an addict - but I met people who had been clean and sober for 10, 20, 30 years and more.  Or some people do very well, then relapse, and then get back into recovery, and do well again.  Relapsing is common but it isn't "failure" - you get back on the horse.

So... . if he is committed to getting sober, he could do very well.  Or not.  It's out of your control but there is certainly hope.

One of the things I learned is that it's best for the addict to feel support but also to have a lot of distance from intimate relationships;  I was told, "Tell him you love him and want what's best for him, then leave him alone."  I think it's also best for you, too, to keep some distance while he's in treatment, and maybe afterward too.

You have the opportunity to rebuild your own life and take care of your son - establish a good routine that will give him a sense of security, which is very important to kids.

Then later you can decide what kind of contact to have with your son's father - whether to complete the divorce and only communicate about your son, or whether to try to fix the relationship.

Take it slow!

Best wishes,

Matt

[allibaba]

Wow, this is encouraging.

My adult son went to residential treatment for addiction - two stints of six months each - and it helped a lot.  I don't think an addict can be "fixed" - he'll always be an addict - but I met people who had been clean and sober for 10, 20, 30 years and more.  Or some people do very well, then relapse, and then get back into recovery, and do well again.  Relapsing is common but it isn't "failure" - you get back on the horse.

So... . if he is committed to getting sober, he could do very well.  Or not.  It's out of your control but there is certainly hope.

One of the things I learned is that it's best for the addict to feel support but also to have a lot of distance from intimate relationships;  I was told, "Tell him you love him and want what's best for him, then leave him alone."  I think it's also best for you, too, to keep some distance while he's in treatment, and maybe afterward too.

You have the opportunity to rebuild your own life and take care of your son - establish a good routine that will give him a sense of security, which is very important to kids.

Then later you can decide what kind of contact to have with your son's father - whether to complete the divorce and only communicate about your son, or whether to try to fix the relationship.

Take it slow!

Best wishes,

Matt

This is good advise Matt... .   especially the loving but distant part.  He's told me that there will be a period in treatment that he'll literally have no ability to contact us. 

I think that the thing that scares me is that I had no idea addiction was an issue (knew about BPD, knew about OCD, knew about anxiety).  He says that he's been lying to me for about 4 yrs and that he just can't do it anymore.  I guess that explains where my disposable income has been going .

[ForeverDad]

He needs to know that recovery is for him and not you or 'us'.  If he doesn't do it for himself, then treatment and therapy is less likely to work.

I recall that a prolific poster and moderator here in past years, JoannaK sometimes wrote that when the spouses got counseling and made progress toward recovery that often they both became different persons and saw the other differently through more balanced eyes... . and sometimes they decided they didn't have a future together.  For that reason also, neither of you should hope - or promise - that if he just seeks therapy and 'recovers' that you two can automatically get back together.

[Matt]

He needs to know that recovery is for him and not you or 'us'.  If he doesn't do it for himself, then treatment and therapy is less likely to work.

I recall that a prolific poster and moderator here in past years, JoannaK sometimes wrote that when the spouses got counseling and made progress toward recovery that often they both became different persons and saw the other differently through more balanced eyes... . and sometimes they decided they didn't have a future together.  For that reason also, neither of you should hope - or promise - that if he just seeks therapy and 'recovers' that you two can automatically get back together.

Yeah, I think this is very important.  Best for each of you to get help for your own issues - for you maybe it's about codependency? - and just focus on that - wish him well but little or no contact - don't make getting back with him one of your goals.  Then as you go down a healthy path, you can see where that leads.

In rehab, they told my son, when you leave her get a house plant, and take care of it every day for six months.  And then get a pet, and take care of it every day for six months.  And then form a friendship, and maintain it for six months.  And then, if everything is good, you might be ready for a relationship - but still take it slow.

The idea was, if he jumped back into a relationship too soon, it's not likely to work, and it's going to add stress which can lead to relapse.  Better to build a strong foundation, by taking things slowly and building good daily habits.

Same thing for your husband, probably, and in a way for you (and me) too.

[Grey Kitty]

What a long crazy trip this has been (metaphorically speaking!)... .

And he's been out of the house since December 22nd and I have never been happier.  Still waiting for the other shoe to drop and for me to have a critical meltdown but it hasn't come yet.  All I see is the positives of living a healthy life with our son.  Not sure how I am going to handle things if he gets treatment and gets better... . but that is something to worry about another day... .

 I'm glad to hear how you feel about it. You still sound strong and centered, and are happy with the boundaries you chose to enforce.

I still hope he rises to the occasion... . but whatever happens to him, you are a success story!

[momtara]

Well, that may explain a lot of the odd behaviors.  You said they started a few years ago.  If it were BPD, it probably would have been present earlier.  Is it drugs, or alcohol?  The outcome all sounds wonderful!  You are getting time to be on your own, your son will be safe and in a HEALTHY environment, and you may even get your husband back if you want him.

My exH took a similar trajectory to yours.  He had to hit rock bottom and admit to his issues too.  Unfortunately, he DOES have BPD and he may have to be in therapy for it for the rest of his life and may not get better.  If he had an addiction, at least there is a stated therapy (it doesn't always work, but at least it exists). 

The big problem with my ex is that he lies and tries to get revenge when triggered.  If your husband can overcome those kinds of things, then maybe there's a shot.  It does make sense that someone would say and do cruel things when trying to cover up a big secret.  You just have to see if he really does make progress and take responsibility.

[momtara]

Oh, still be careful about custody.  My exH said that he'd be too sick to take care of our kids if we divorced.  I thought, hooray, he won't be around them much.  But as the divorce progressed, he filed for primary custody!  He may have been saying he was sick just to guilt me into not leaving. 

Anyway, if you are separating and not divorced, your H may not be lying - but try to subtly get in writing what his visitation will be, if that becomes an issue.