Relationship deteriorating rapidly- Pt 1

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Update... .
BPDH has moved out. He took everything he owns and left yesterday to temporarily live with his mother until he finds a new place. He said he met with a lawyer and he is filing for divorce this week.

On Friday night everything had seemed better - we had a good talk; discussed moving forward with MC. He was calm & rational & said that he made an appointment with a lawyer but cancelled it after we talked. He said that he still loves me and should not have said he doesn't.

Saturday morning he left to go wash his car, as he usually does. He was gone for several hours, when I texted him while he was at the carwash and asked him to call me so I could ask him to pick up something at the store for me. I got a shockingly cold reply from him that he doesn't want to speak to me and just to text him instead. I was confused and asked him why he couldn't just give me a quick call. No response. That's when I knew he wasn't at the car wash. He was at his divorce attorney's office. He told me when he got home that he was in fact meeting with his lawyer and had lied to me about it so I wouldn't get upset or try to persuade him not to go through with it. He also said he lied about still being in love with me. He is not.

I was in shock. I thought we'd worked things out (at least for now). I got very upset - anxious and crying. He agreed to wait a while to move out and would start gradually moving his things to his mother's house "eventually." At this point, I couldn't be around him and had to leave to go to a hotel for the night. When I came home in the morning, he was in the process of moving out all of his things. He said he decided not to wait and was leaving that day for good.

I tried to talk to him about not rushing into this and let's instead do a trial separation. He refused, saying that his lawyer said a separation is more expensive than a divorce. He still wants to attend our upcoming MC session for "closure." So I got him to agree to hold off on the divorce filing until we see her this Wednesday. I'm hoping by then that he will have calmed down and be thinking more clearly so that the MC can give some suggestions for maybe not rushing into this and we can talk about a trial separation instead. I realize I'm hoping against hope here, but it's my last shot to save the marriage.

In the meantime, I'm living alone without any physical help & I'm feeling horribly lonely & heartbroken.

[bananas2]

Update... .
BPDH has moved out. He took everything he owns and left yesterday to temporarily live with his mother until he finds a new place. He said he met with a lawyer and he is filing for divorce this week.

On Friday night everything had seemed better - we had a good talk; discussed moving forward with MC. He was calm & rational & said that he made an appointment with a lawyer but cancelled it after we talked. He said that he still loves me and should not have said he doesn't.

Saturday morning he left to go wash his car, as he usually does. He was gone for several hours, when I texted him while he was at the carwash and asked him to call me so I could ask him to pick up something at the store for me. I got a shockingly cold reply from him that he doesn't want to speak to me and just to text him instead. I was confused and asked him why he couldn't just give me a quick call. No response. That's when I knew he wasn't at the car wash. He was at his divorce attorney's office. He told me when he got home that he was in fact meeting with his lawyer and had lied to me about it so I wouldn't get upset or try to persuade him not to go through with it. He also said he lied about still being in love with me. He is not.

I was in shock. I thought we'd worked things out (at least for now). I got very upset - anxious and crying. He agreed to wait a while to move out and would start gradually moving his things to his mother's house "eventually." At this point, I couldn't be around him and had to leave to go to a hotel for the night. When I came home in the morning, he was in the process of moving out all of his things. He said he decided not to wait and was leaving that day for good.

I tried to talk to him about not rushing into this and let's instead do a trial separation. He refused, saying that his lawyer said a separation is more expensive than a divorce. He still wants to attend our upcoming MC session for "closure." So I got him to agree to hold off on the divorce filing until we see her this Wednesday. I'm hoping by then that he will have calmed down and be thinking more clearly so that the MC can give some suggestions for maybe not rushing into this and we can talk about a trial separation instead. I realize I'm hoping against hope here, but it's my last shot to save the marriage.

In the meantime, I'm living alone without any physical help & I'm feeling horribly lonely & heartbroken.

[formflier]

 

What can you do to be extra kind to yourself?

What do you want to say at next MC?

FF

[bananas2]

 

What can you do to be extra kind to yourself?

What do you want to say at next MC?

I'm trying to be kind to myself by setting up a larger support system. I told my father, stepmother, and good neighbor/friend that he has moved out. I'm keeping myself distracted by trying to keep busy so I don't get too depressed. I'm also in the process of switching to a new individual T, as my current T does not provide me enough feedback.

MC is tomorrow night and I'm trying to get prepared. The main objective is try to get him to agree to a trial separation instead of going full-steam ahead with the divorce. He said that he still "loves me from a distance," so that's something to work with. I spoke with H on the phone briefly yesterday and told him that my father (who is equally in shock), agreed to find me & pay for the best divorce lawyer in the city. I reminded him that this means a divorce is going to financially devastate him and I don't want to see that happen to him. I asked him about a trial separation and he said no, but that we could still discuss it in MC.


This will be his 5th divorce. Each time he has divorced, he has gone running back to his old neighborhood to live with his abusive mother. I reminded him that he is a good man who deserves to be loved, not abused. He had no reply. It's painful for me to watch him revert to his old patterns of letting himself be abused.

[formflier]

   

I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this.

I hope you can take time and look at this from the "big picture". 

Are you chasing after him... .asking him to stay... .(in some capacity) or are you letting him go and telling him you will watch his actions?

He understands the financial devastation... .he has done this many times before.  Any reason to remind him?

I understand that you don't want this to happen, but I assure you that "asking" or "pleading" or "negotiating" with him for a TS is going to be perceived by him as "chasing".  He is "pushing" you away and you are "pulling" him towards you.

For pwBPD... generally the wrong thing to do for push pull is to "go against" their signal.  If they pull, you pull to but a little less.  If they push, push but a little less.

However, you really need to look at the big picture.  This isn't his first rodeo.

I'm so sorry... .

How can you express disappointment at MC and let him know you are available for a TS. 

FF

[itgetsbetter94]

I read your story. I'm so sorry you have to get through this. This stuff is tough.

Get all the support that you need- new therapist, your dad, if you are religious, maybe talk to the priest and pray for your emotional healing and recovery. 

I just came from the appointment with my T... .before me, in her office was the person with BPD (as I later found out) and I could hear loud voices, quarreling, shouting... .I could not help to hear some of the issues- gambling issues, ex girlfriends... .my T is a kind and thoughtful woman but even she was taken aback.

Later she told me once again how in dealing with people with BPD, it's the best cut your loses and run and don't look back. "Your best case scenario is being forgotten by then and not associated with them". She couldn't stress enough the importance of not engaging with them and holding your distance.

Not so long ago, you wrote that you had to get medical help because of the mental breakdown he caused you. Honey, trust me, that wouldn't be the only breakdown if you stayed with him.

There is a reason why this disorder has such a stigma and why licensed professionals don't like working with them. You wrote that your therapist also had to recuperate after his verbal attack.
We are not equipped to deal with pwBPD. They are not like us.

This divorce might be the greatest act of mercy you'll ever get from him. He won't get better. He'll never return nowhere near the idealization phase. From now to eternity, there's only hell with him.

[bananas2]

 
Are you chasing after him... .asking him to stay... .(in some capacity) or are you letting him go and telling him you will watch his actions?

He understands the financial devastation... .he has done this many times before.  Any reason to remind him?

I understand that you don't want this to happen, but I assure you that "asking" or "pleading" or "negotiating" with him for a TS is going to be perceived by him as "chasing".  He is "pushing" you away and you are "pulling" him towards you.

For pwBPD... generally the wrong thing to do for push pull is to "go against" their signal.  If they pull, you pull to but a little less.  If they push, push but a little less.

However, you really need to look at the big picture.  This isn't his first rodeo.

I'm so sorry... .
How can you express disappointment at MC and let him know you are available for a TS.

I am no longer chasing, pleading, pulling, or asking him to stay. Those days are over. I am letting him go, if that is what he wants.
Re: The financial devastation: It's been many years, so I am reminding him what may be in store for him.

I will not be expressing disappointment at MC. My primary objective is to let him know that I am available for TS. If that is not what he wants, then I have the remainder of his possessions ready to go in my car to give to him after the session, if need be, so that he has no reason to ever come back to our home again.

[formflier]

Why remind him... .why not just let him figure it out, natural consequences of his actions.

I'm not aware of any responsibility you have to make sure he remembers things.  Focus on what you need to do... .

Hang in there.

FF

[SunandMoon]

I too have been reading your story, bananas2, and just wanted to come and give you a big hug   
It's horrible that things had been improving and have now gone south so quickly.

He says he is not doing DBT and is doing CBT. I wonder what this is bringing up and possibly triggering in him. You have no way of knowing what he is saying in T and what his T is recommending (based on what your H says)... .And with BPD, that can be anything in the moment.

For now, all you can do is move forward with protecting yourself - gathering a support network to help you through this, finding a place and home care, trying to distract yourself from the pain and confusion by doing things that give you some pleasure when you can.

And if it does come to divorce, please take him to the cleaners! You will need the money and he sure needs the lesson!

I'm sure this is devastating for youbananas2... .remember to focus on you now 

[Radcliff]

bananas2,

I am so sorry to hear about the latest turn of events.  I am glad you've reached out to family to bolster your support, and that you will have good legal representation to make sure your needs are met with regards to finances and care/assistance needs.

You didn't mention any additional assistance being lined up to help you around your home with daily needs related to your disability.  Do you have help lined up there?  As you know, the physical challenges add to your total stress load, so getting the right help there is an important part of your self care.  Can you let us know how you're doing in that regard?

Please keep us posted.

 

WW

[bananas2]

You didn't mention any additional assistance being lined up to help you around your home with daily needs related to your disability.  Do you have help lined up there?  As you know, the physical challenges add to your total stress load, so getting the right help there is an important part of your self care.  Can you let us know how you're doing in that regard? WW

I haven't been able to line up any assistance with activities of daily living. I do have a very helpful neighbor, but as my condition worsens, I will need more help. I'll be looking into that soon through the insurance company and my doctor.

Latest development:
He texted me this morning and said he is not going to attend the MC appointment tonight bc it would make him "too uncomfortable." So unless he changes his mind (I doubt it), there is no hope for a trial separation. I'm currently trying to get him to answer me about when he intends to file the divorce papers and if he is going to take the $2000 retainer fee from our joint account.
My only leverage right now is that he is asking to talk to me about dividing up the finances, but I have so far not replied. If he withdraws a significant amount of money, then that's going to be a problem for him when we go to court. "Go to court" - I can't believe I'm typing those words.
This is so sudden & shocking.

In a matter of weeks, he's gone from trying to improve our r/s to being completely cold and callus. It's almost sociopathic. It's as if he's a different person now. It breaks my heart.

Thank you my BPD family for all your support. It means the world to me. 

[formflier]

"I will be at MC tonight.  Please keep your commitment you made to be there."

I would suggest that you go.  Don't fight with him about this... but don't let him off the hook.

Does he have access to his own funds to pay retainer?  Do you have a lawyer lined up?

I'm still getting this sense that you are "chasing" after him for answers... .perhaps I'm misreading.

What is there really to talk about.

You don't agree to joint funds being spent on divorce... period.  No more debate.  He may spend them... .but instead of debating it... settle it in court.

Same with MC... .you are going... you expect him to keep his commitments.  No more debate, but don't expect him to show.

Do you see the mindset I'm trying to get you to shift to?

FF

[bananas2]

"I will be at MC tonight.  Please keep your commitment you made to be there."

I would suggest that you go.  Don't fight with him about this... but don't let him off the hook.

Does he have access to his own funds to pay retainer?  Do you have a lawyer lined up?

I'm still getting this sense that you are "chasing" after him for answers... .perhaps I'm misreading.

You don't agree to joint funds being spent on divorce... period.  No more debate.  He may spend them... .but instead of debating it... settle it in court.

Same with MC... .you are going... you expect him to keep his commitments.  No more debate, but don't expect him to show.

Do you see the mindset I'm trying to get you to shift to?

FF

Thank you, FF. I did tell him in text that I would be there tonight and explained that I expected him to be there too, as he had promised. I left it at that. I do not expect him to show.

He does not have access to his own funds for the retainer. All of our funds are joint, and I will not agree to him using our funds to pay his lawyer. He will have to borrow the money from someone. As a matter of fact, I am not agreeing to discuss any finances with him whatsoever. That will be done through my lawyer. I have one lined up, but want to ask the marriage counselor tonight if she can recommend one. If she knows someone, I will compare with the one I have in mind, make a decision and call tomorrow. If he stops depositing his paychecks in our account, he is in for a world of hurt. I know my disability law, and that is financial abandonment of a disabled person. 

I've stopped "chasing" answers. The only thing I've asked of him is to let me know when he intends to file or if he has done so already. I'd just like a "heads up," but at this point, it looks like I'm going to just get served without any notice. I fully intend to have an attorney tomorrow.

Does anyone know if it is admissible in court to give video/audio evidence even if it was obtained without consent? I fear he has video/audio of me being extremely upset with him after I found out he cheated on me/lied to me. I'm sure it portrays me in a bad light, especially if he recorded only the parts of me being angry but having eliminated the parts about his cheating/lying.

[ozmatoz]

In a matter of weeks, he's gone from trying to improve our r/s to being completely cold and callus. It's almost sociopathic. It's as if he's a different person now. It breaks my heart.

Experiencing the same exact thing right now.  uBPDw has had $5,000 in cash on hand for a retainer for months... .  Now its non stop I hate you, you're a terrible father, get out, followed by "I've already moved on with someone"... ."I've started the process"... .and yes the $5,000 is no longer in the house... .

It is crazy how fast things can change in their world. 

I wish you some peace and good luck. 
-Oz

[bananas2]

Experiencing the same exact thing right now.  uBPDw has had $5,000 in cash on hand for a retainer for months... .  Now its non stop I hate you, you're a terrible father, get out, followed by "I've already moved on with someone"... ."I've started the process"... .and yes the $5,000 is no longer in the house... .

It is crazy how fast things can change in their world. 

I wish you some peace and good luck. 
-Oz

Thanks, Oz. I'm so sorry you are experiencing the same. Please PM me if you need some extra support. I'll do my best.

[formflier]

Have you ever hired an attorney before?  Been through divorce before? 

I would recommend talking to at least 2... .they usually do free consultations.  Depending on how savvy you are at hiring lawyers you may want to talk to more.  I really hope you can be comfortable with someone.

Fortunately/unfortunately I've had to hire and work with tons of lawyers over the years.  I get a sense pretty quick if they are going to work or not.

Ask if your state is "one party consent" or not (about the recording).

FF

[Radcliff]

bananas2,

How did the MC session tonight go?  Did you at least get some good solo time with the MC?

On the recording question, I know enough here to be dangerous.  But let me come at this from a different angle.  So many of the things that happened with my wife that I was embarrassed about or could otherwise have been used for emotional blackmail just evaporated when I talked to my lawyer.  There are buckets of stuff that are upsetting and embarrassing but are part of being human and just don't matter in a court case.  The thought of those tapes coming out must be very upsetting.  There is a good chance they'll never see the light of day.  I'd recommend trying not to worry about it until you talk to your lawyer.  Spend your energy finding a good lawyer.

I echo formflier's advice about talking to several lawyers.  It is an important relationship, and you'll get a feel quickly for some of the red flags.  For example, if the lawyer is hard to get a hold of or doesn't return calls, that's not good.  My lawyer gets back to me usually within a day, always within two, and faster if there is a legitimate reason.  Also, your lawyer needs to be a good listener.  It's OK if they cut you off if you start to get repetitive -- for what you're paying, that's a good thing -- but they need to listen to and understand your concerns.  It's a service business, after all!  Plus, if they are able to build rapport with you, you will more easily be able to trust their advice.  I talked to six lawyers before selecting mine.  She works in a small specialized practice with just two partners and three associates, in a converted house in a nearby small city.  If there is a relevant area where you may have some knowledge they don't, such as disability issues, you'll want a lawyer who is confident but open enough to listening to your input there.

As a first step, I'd recommend reading "Splitting," by Bill Eddy and Randi Krieger.  There is a section on picking a lawyer.  Don't wait for delivery, I'd download it on Kindle and start reading.

Finally, I am so so sorry for this awful outcome.  It must be devastating.  The sudden flip does not mean that the love was not real -- it likely is an awful effect of the illness, with his defense mechanisms kicking in.  I am sorry that you have to bear this pain

Keep us posted.  I'm sorry this is a terrible, terrible, time, but you are not alone.



WW

[pearlsw]

Hibananas2,

There is so much going on here I don't quite know where to jump in! Firstly let me offer a great big   to you! I feel like I have been living identical parts of this narrative myself in the last few weeks. I got the "I don't love you"... .I thought we were fixing things, then we weren't... .trips and calls to the divorce lawyer... .negotiations, offers, than all suddenly (seemingly) dropped, etc.

One thing I know is these relationships aren't over til when you think they are... .but in a way... .they are not on either. I hate that we are in these kinds of limbo situations and it often seems like the only way out is what we do ourselves to finally end it.

Others here have a lot of wisdom and insights, as I am struggling a lot myself lately I just want to send   and   's and wish you some peace as you get through this tough, tough time.

~pearl.

[Radcliff]

Hibananas2,

It's been a little while.  How are you doing?

 

WW