Friday will be an entire year since i physically SAW my BPD daughter.  I am so sad, nothing is shaking this sadness (than i feel IRRITATED b/c I have worked very hard on my own mental health)

Hi Sendingkindness
Thank you for posting. I have been thinking over many of the things you raise. BT400 has also been posting about setting boundaries and I have been interested in his posts. I am so grateful for people posting here because it helps me know there are others in the world experiencing similar situations and trying to sort out what to do.

All the things you describe and that I experience are covered under the diagnostic criteria for BPD, so it is not a surprise that money issues, anger, tirades and not coping with 'no' are what we have to deal with.

First of all I think everyone's situation is individual - yes the criteria are there but not all bpd folk have all the criteria. There needs to be 5 for a diagnosis. Then there is the individual person. My dd is low functioning - so different from yours - and so my journey with her is different in many respects.

What I am struggling with at the moment is money - similar to your situation. I have come to a point where verbal abuse is not so much an issue for me - most of the time! I know dd has little control and I am her target of blame. I also know she doesn't like herself after the explosions.

But the money situation is worrying for me. My dd does have a pension income but is always asking for money. She lives with me and does very little. When someone wants her to come and see them etc off she goes. I am sure they know when she has money and in this way they exploit her in my opinion.

I used to pay her debts - but I stopped this many years ago. I wish I had done it earlier because once I stopped bailing her out she got bad credit and therefore was not able to keep on getting credit cards or purchasing lots of stuff on credit. So that was a very helpful thing for me!

Last year I told her not to ask me for money and it worked for a while, then slipped back. DD has a couple of court cases coming up and she has been housebound so under a lot of pressure so I was planning on waiting till after these things and then tightening up on the money. But she is getting more desperate for friends and that means being the one to supply them with alcohol, cigarettes etc.

I know some people do believe that if you put up the boundaries it will help the person to see that they need help etc. I think however that it depends on the individual and the parent knows their child best. In my case my dd can't even make a phone call to make a doctor appt and when I do make one she usually backs out through intense anxiety. Lots of boundaries that would be suitable for one person would not work for my dd - just back her into a corner with nowhere to go.

I am not sure from what you say whether your dd does have some source of income - other then you that is? Also in relation to money (I know you are setting boundaries around other things) have you presented dd with a planned withdrawal of funds from you or have you just stopped?

As I say I am struggling with this at the moment so appreciate others' posts very much!

Hi all. This is my first post here. I found this forum after looking for more information on BPD, after I got some idea from the sister, who is in psychology field, that my current partner sounds like someone with BPD.

This might be longer, but there is no other way when a person is potentially bound to BPD during childhood (mother), with ex-wife, and now a new partner (but hopefully not too long).

My partner and me are together for 6 months now. She is a single mother, son of 6. For the very beginning, tings looked nice, although a little bit faster than expected. Nevertheless, it didn't bother me, as I divorced last year, I am 39 years old and I do not look for something casual. Still, there were some things that immediately raised alarm: she introduced me to her kid after a few dates, not even first month passed. She left for vacation for 2 weeks shortly after that, alone, leaving the kid with her mom and stepdad. For a few times I did some babysitting in those 2 weeks, as kid wan't in good mood due to his mom missing, and I provided some fun and toys for him, so I was interesting to him. After the vacation, she looked annoyed with me presence - not a single clear reflection on the fact that I was babysitting her kid in those 2 weeks. She blamed that on here adaptation to time zone again, so I left it there. A little by little, we got along, I practically I started to live with them in a matter of week - in that time she even told me that "she would not like me to leave ever" and that "her kid expressed a wish that I live with them".

It looked fast to me, especially to my sister, but I simply accepted that as someone having genuine trust and feelings for me. We started planning the first vacation for three of us, for beginning of spring. We also paid for vacation in summer. When I say "we", that makes actually 80% or more with my money. I missed to set the right borders there, and expectations quickly went to "I pay for the most of the things": hotels, restaurants, groceries, amazon deliveries,... In this period her unpredicted bursts of annoyance started to become more often. I would do something to help her, or offer my help, or ask her about something - and reactions were very often annoyances - questions with "why", rude tone, questioning every my move. I really felt like having someone who judges all my doings, that I walk on eggshells. My confidence started to deteriorate, I tried to comfort her, to avoid being judged - all the points I learned from the early childhood - but I will return to it.

After vacation, things started escalating. The kid do bedwetting from time to time, but now he started doing that almost every day. In one of those occasions, during the night, she told me that "she wanted me at my place". When next day I picked up my stuff, she insisted that I stay. But then new incidents like that appear. I did many things in her apartment, like electric and water installations, cooking, dishwashing, babysitting... and the first time I rejected to comply for one task to do 3 days earlier than I offered I got "I don't want to live with you. I want you at your place". I told her later over WhatsApp that I will definitely spend time at my place, but now that became a problem - that I informed her about leaving her apartment over a message - she absolutely rejected that she practically throw me away from her apartment. This continued in following two weeks - during one argument in her car, when I simply asked to have the same treatment of my wishes as she had, she stopped the car next to train station expecting from me to leave, which I did. Finally, days after, when I spent the whole day of helping her, she asked me "why did I wear that polo shirt", and when I said "because I liked it", she told me that "then I can wear it alone".

That was enough for me. I packed myself, she asked me then to give her back the keys, which I did, and I left. Many calls after, that night, I returned back on her insisting, to talk, but she didn't offer anything, insisting that this "alone" doesn't mean that. I left her again, realising that it is over - she told me not to call her anymore, anyway. But, tomorrow she called me and begged me to come to talk. I tried to pushed back, insisting that there is no sense to be together anymore, but she started triggering the feeling of guilt in me, that I have more responsability for other human being than for me - but I will return to this.

I returned to talk. And without asking for anything, she offered everything, she realised how she behaved, and how that was wrong, and so on... and I felt like I lost all arguments, so I gave it a chance. But, I don't feel it anymore, this scar I got in last couple of weeks sound familiar, and I started to dig more, with my sister, and especially with my therapist. The following days, she behaved perfectly, but also she wasn't giving me any space. Literraly she wanted to be present every minute of my life. And that bothers me - I lost contacts with my friends, I rarely see them. I don't spend time alone, I don't have my hobbies. I only spent time with her, her familly and friends. Or I get some responsability for apartment or the kid. Right now, I am on a trip to home country, and I am thinking about next moves.

The first obvious question from my therapist was why I didn't mention this "my way or highway" arguments in weeks before. Answer - I saw it normal. Why? Because my ex-wife behaved the same in the first half of our relationship/marriage, before I started with therapy. She was very impulsive, controlling, distrustful. She would start breaking glasses in the apartment during an argument, then she would leave. At some point she would call me crying, asking me to come to her on that and that place. When I would be there, after she realised that my opinion still stands, she would slap me into face. I would leave, she would call, I would return, a slap... and so on. I felt like I am constantly on eggshells, I was the only provided, and she would just spend money on many different things, without thinking for the future, even for until the end of the month. Finally, after years of my insisting, she found a job, but broke after a year, had a psychotic episode, and started with risperidon. After a year she was tested in the clinic for different disorders, where she was really close to BPD diagnose - but, as I said, many of her symptoms, especially her impulses, were under control already by medicine, for a year at least.

That had two important consequences. The first, raising feeling of guilt in me, that I pushed her over the line. The second, she started with therapy and risperidon and her symptoms started melting. We didn't have such arguments anymore, she started working on some her issues, and I started my therapy. So at that moment, this became a blind spot for my therapist, as I never talked about this. It was a blind spot for my sister, as she also never saw that part of our dynamics. But the moment she asked me "why did I tolerate my new girlfriend's behavior", and I answered "because my ex behaved much worse, so it was normal to me" - the short "wait.. what?", from her, started opening a huge box. A couple of therapy sessions after, questions like "why such relationships are close to my heart", or "why do I see that normal", started to unblind some big spot for me.

I mentioned that my sister is in therapy field, and she worked 15 years on her problems and fixed a lot of damage for herself. She gave me a lot of support and recommendations for therapists. We spent nights talking about our childhood. We talked about both parents, and how they mistreated us. We largely concentrated on our father, as he has NPD, clearly visible today, more and more. But our mother was always a blind spot. We kind of looked at her as a victim - she was verbally and physically abused as child by her father, and sexually abused by a family friend, which she was afraid to talk to parents, knowing how her father would react. She married to my father, who, as mentioned, is a classic NPD, that continued that verbal torture. He was alcoholic as well (today he has diabetes, and he lost both legs), and after 16 years of marriage she finally divorced, when I begged her to do it (I was 14 at the time).

But, after one question "why do you think that you should feel guilty even when someone still mistreat you like that?", everything started to be clear. My mother was very conditional in showing her emotions, when I was a child. If I would do what she wanted, or I did something exceptional in school, or I would be sick - she would show me a positive attention. If I would not do what she liked, she would yell on me, put me in detention for hours or days, avoiding to realise even my existence for days, avoiding to talk to me. She would clearly give me a message that I hurt her. She would spill her dissatisfaction from marriage or work to me, which looked liked random bursts of rage, and built the anxious attachment for me. She would judge my friends, spill over the feeling of guilt, shame, luck of confidence. Me and my sister can't remember one weekend with our parents - they would simply gave us to our grandparents and go for a weekend with friends to play cards. When once I insisted to stay, I was in detention, to spend time in bed for the whole weekend. I was always the one to ask that couldn't join my friends in school for going to play football, video game store, etc. In many cases I felt like I should more concentrate on the needs of my mother and her acceptance, than what I really wanted to do.

As a teenager, doctors told me that I have a chronic HBV. At that time there wasn't any antiviral therapy, and all I could was to sleep well, and eat healthy food. And I did. When all of my friends enjoyed their youth, I spent time at doctors, eating food that I didn't prefer, and go to bed at 21h every night. And every single blood control showed worse results than before. But my mother never showed support and comfort in such cases - she always blamed me because of my results. Like I was doing something to make my liver enzymes worse. Every time I went to doctor, I was afraid to get bad blood results, because that would mean more rigorous regime and, even worse, more feeling of guilt. To the point that in the end I lied to my parents and everyone that I lost HBV. For a decade I spent my time in a lie, experiencing all symptoms, like pain in abdomen, but avoiding to go to doctor, to not feel anymore that guilt.

Today my HBV is under control. It took some 2 years of therapies to go to doctor and western medicine to put my misery on hold.

In my professional career, I am succesfull, in Senior Leadership of a good company. I started giving a great deal to my physical and mental health, and finally, I am again on a cross road. I think I finally broke my normalisation of feeeling guilty, from where it comes, or at least I would like to believe so. I am close to 40, I don't have kids and I don't know if I want to have them. I am afraid to be alone. I would love to have someone, but I struggle to see that someone cares from me if she is not jealous, posesive, controlling, that leave-return-slap dynamic. Obviously, I still have a lot to do on my therapies.

I am on a trip, visiting my familly, preparing for return back to break up with my current partner. One thing I know that I might feel guilty again. But I also want to explain to myself that this guilt is not mine, that I am programmed like this, and that I should finally do what I really want to do.

Do you have this feeling of guilt to the point that you forget your scars and needs, just to comfort that person? How do you deal with that?

Even living at a distance, I feel this way. Distance helps as it's the only real boundary. There is still the phone and text. BPD mother "accidentally" calls  me several times in a row. I don't answer right away as frequently that is all it is but after several times, I do and her reply is that she was fumbling with her phone and didn't want to speak to me. If she does call, it's to ask about her bank balance. She knows her savings are low. She usually checks it on her phone but wants me to check it for her as well. Once I reply how much is in there, she gets off the phone.

"No solution is acceptable" to her. We moved her to assisted living a little over a year ago, with hopes she'd take advantage of the social opportunities there. She mostly stays in her room and orders her meals sent to her room instead of going to the dining hall. She went under Hospice care due to being non compliant with her medical care and it seemed to be more comfortable for her to have palliative care instead. She's actually doing better with Hospice care but finds ways that is not adequate either.

There's been drama with her as well in assisted living. It is better than when she's been in her own home but still, she can not settle into any routine or comply with plans or rules. She can have just about any medicine she wants- but it has to be ordered and dispensed by the nurses there. Yet, she prefers to sneak her own over the counter medicine in to her room. She sends people to the pharmacy to get it for her. Some of them have abuse potential as she takes a lot of them but this makes no sense to me as she already has pain medicines and anxiety medicine ordered for her and she can ask for them.

One of them got concerned and told me about it. BPD mother called me up angry about that. Now, I don't get calls from either her hospice nurse or her helpers. I wonder if she has ordered them to not call me- which would be typical for her.

This is the NPD side of her. Breaking rules for their own sake, because doing things in secret- keeping people in the dark- gives her a sense of power I think. And "don't tell NW" somehow does something for her but it's difficult to have a relationship with someone who isn't honest with you.

"Trapped by your own values"- yes and also empathy. I feel sorry for her. I feel very sorry for her suffering. I feel badly that my kids don't want to talk to her because I know she'd want them to. She wants the attention from them. She wants what her extended family have- a close relationship with kids and grandkids. I grew up wishing we were more like them too. It's not as if they didn't have challenges sometimes but there was a stable marriage, compatibility, and they act like parents to their kids. Their kids didn't grow up afraid of their parents. And somehow I feel obligated to create that for my mother- but my instinct to protect my own children from her behavior is larger than that.

If I express empathy for her situation, she exploits it. Mostly by lying to me or witholding information and I get into a rescuer position with her, make a plan, and she undoes it. And yet, I do feel sad for her and don't want to see her suffer but efforts to help her have not been adequate for her. She makes her own decisions.

Hi,

Thank you so much for that thoughtful response. The reframing is something extremely useful and a lot for me to think over.

I completely agree that his silence is at heart him being at capacity and a coping strategy. I very much think that he actually feels he is protecting me from his rage by going silent.
The length of time it tends to go on for makes this harder, in the earlier days of our marriage (its been 15 years), he would go silent for a few days, but lately its been months at a time. And sometimes there are just basic things that need to be discussed, I guess I need to find a way to communicate these while demonstrating I won't go any further at the time being.
I would like to be allowed back into my own bed, but I think my presence would aggravate him more at present.

Managing his mother is another story, she lives with us, and puts a lot of pressure on me to call him, interact with him etc. She is desperate for me to end this, and she calls me a doormat and him a 'proud type', she does not understand the nature of his needs. It can be hard to deflect that pressure, but when he thinks I am doing things under her direction it makes him extremely upset. There is obviously a deep wound there in relation to her.

There is a double irony here, I am a speech therapist by profession and often deal with selective mutism, and was also selective mute myself as a child as a trauma response. So, what you are saying should not really come as a surprise to me, yet often we need the outside perspective to join the dots. But yes, I remember well that the anxiety would overwhelm me so much that the words would literally disappear from my head, it was never that I was just being stubborn or difficult. When I work with children now I work to make them relaxed and secure and put no pressure on for them to speak unless they are ready, while also always providing the opportunity to talk.

I'm trying to think through now how to give him that space, and stop trying to 'fix' him, but while leaving the door open to communication. I had sent him a message saying I was ready to talk when he is.
I also sent another message a few days back saying that I love and support him and that hasn't changed, I can see he is frustrated and overwhelmed. He did then make brief eye contact with me the next day and ask me where our daughter was, which was positive. I think for now I will continue to let him be. I'm going away for a month in July, back to my family (pre-arranged nothing to do with the current situation, we live abroad from them). This will give him a fuller space, though I would like to communicate before then, I will see.

Thank you for giving me this space, it can feel like so much thought and energy goes into considering his emotional needs, that there is none left for mine. I don't really know where to begin on looking after myself. I am just counting the days to my holiday right now.

It happened again, my 6th sense was triggered, yet again, this time at a convenience store, I was getting a large diet soda and some Korean BBQ, and the clerk behind the counter as I was leaving the store said to me "I wish I had a husband like you..." as I smiled and waved good-bye clearly showing my wedding band...

The meeting was all of 90 seconds, give or take, the girl behind the counter was slender and attractive, around 6 foot, 5 inches tall (I'm 6 foot 2 inches), about 10-15 years my junior so she did catch my eye and I smiled at her as I approached the counter.  She struck up a conversation as I was checking out, I don't remember the exact exchange of small talk / pleasantries, but it did involve her giving me a good discount at the register of her initiative, I mentioned that I do like to save money (who doesn't).  After I had gotten my receipt, I thanked her, and told her to have a pleasant day.  She then told me "I wish I had a husband like you", I held up my left hand and flashed my wedding band waving good-bye as I was leaving the store.

While there was nothing that indicated BPD; however, I do feel that something with that interchange was clearly "off" - fortunately I was only passing through the area a couple hundred miles from home, so I doubt I will ever see this person again - it was certainly memorable with the 'weird' vibes factor.

I would have thought nothing of the exchange of pleasantries if she said "thank you" or something similar.  However, when I was told she wanted a husband like me - that triggered me and I couldn't get out of the store fast enough.

Thoughts?

Looking on some feedback on boundary issues with my 39 y o undiagnosed BPD daughter.
Short history – my daughter grew up happy and healthy, successful in school, lots of friends, but a bit of a handful in her early teens, which I thought was normal at the time. I was a single mom of 2, but she had regular interaction with her father, which she seemed to enjoy. She went on to university, got a Master’s degree with my support and entered the work force. Largely successful, getting increasingly good jobs. But she moved around a lot, and never lasted long in romantic relationships. I remember overhearing phone conversations with her colleagues, where she was angry and berating them for their work, which I thought was pretty unusual at the time – I was surprised they put up with it. Her relationship with me was (took me awhile to realize) a bit tenuous – I think now I walked on eggshells a lot to avoid confrontations. She had moved 3000 miles away from her home town, so we were in touch digitally, and sometimes travelled together and visited. She estranged from her father and brother during this period. 
Fast forward to 2020 – she lost her job early in the year due to the pandemic, just after buying a house on her own with a big mortgage. She tried valiantly to get an income stream going, but I’m sure it was super stressful time for her. Later in the year, she phoned and told me that as a result of therapy and use of psychedelic drugs, she now remembered all kinds of physical and sexual abuse growing up – crazy and awful things -she said I’d whipped her every day, tried to burn her down in a garden shed, hired rapists, etc. That followed a 2 year period of total estrangement – she would not respond to any of my attempts to reach out to her. At the time, I followed advice I had received to let her be, and not turn up on her doorstep unannounced.
She got in touch a year ago and sounded terrible. I thought she might be on drugs, but I think now was maybe having a psychotic episode. I was so worried about her I called the mental health crisis team in her community who told me they thought she had stress-induced psychosis. They said anything I could do to reduce stress might help. I offered her some financial assistance as she had no income and seemed unable to get work due to her difficult behaviour.  This was probably a mistake in retrospect, but I thought I was doing the best thing at the time. I gave her a monthly amount on a credit card and also paid all sorts of overdue bills – mortgage payments, utilities, vet bills, and even replaced her car when a baillif towed it away for non payment – all in an attempt to reduce stress.
During all of this, she has been incredibly abusive to me – regular emails, texts and phone calls that include swearing, name calling and obscenities. I was (maybe misguided) trying to show I was there for her no matter what and would not abandon her.
I’ve been rethinking my approach this year, as it seems to have been completely unsuccessful in helping her, plus I just can’t afford this, being retired and on a pension! Over the last year, I  dipped into my savings and given her more than I make in a year (call me crazy!). Her father is not in the picture, and she has alienated all others who might offer help.
Earlier this year, I told her I was going to take a different approach and had some boundaries I was going to put into effect.  I said that if she wanted further financial support from me, there were going to be conditions – polite and respectful communications, that she develop a financial plan and budget (I have offered to pay a financial advisor to assist her with this), attend regular therapy sessions (also offered to assist) and also apply for whatever financial assistance she might qualify for (I provided links she could use for this). She absolutely refuses to believe there is anything wrong with her. She blocks friends and relatives who try to suggest she get help and regularly accuses me of being the one who needs it. She refuses to apply for any kind of government assistance, as it is beneath her.
She is now going completely ballistic on the basis of my boundaries. This weekend, she sent a string of 20 rage emails using every obscene name and insult for me that she can think of. After warning this would result in blocking, I have now blocked her for 30 days. I have not responded to her rage emails.
I am still somewhat conflicted on this, which probably only people in this community might understand.  I feel like her thinking is so clearly disordered, that I wonder if I should be handling this differently? While she is brilliant and has been very capable in the past, she now seems truly mentally ill, and I worry she won’t be able to figure this out. She has never been suicidal, but it is always a worry at the back of my mind. She is very isolated (lives alone),but keeps in touch with some friends and family (although she has alienated so many). I’m not totally privy to her finances – I don’t think she’ll run out of food, and I think she may have to run up a credit card without my assistance – in other words I don’t think she’ll be in any danger without it.
Looking for information/experience/reassurance about this. I am hoping that if I stick to my guns about boundaries, that this will be a positive influence on her – that she will maybe eventually realize she needs help and look for it. I might be delusional myself about that!  Thank you if you have read this far - any suggestions or advice appreciated!

I did establish my boundaries and I have stated that I wanted to heal and go on with my life. That he made his choices. I can not be blamed for them anymore. And a lot of times he tried to take my own words and say them back to me. Trying to tell me that I assume his choices when they aren’t  what he feels. And then he calls himself dumb and not right in the head as reasoning why he is doing what he’s doing.
I just stood my ground and I could see the rejection statements. The blaming, and I don’t know if it will work. But I refused to feel that way anymore again. I haven’t been on these boards because I was really working on moving on. I felt more confident in my steps to healing. I couldn’t prepare for a surprise visit. But I am more proud of myself.

Thanks for your reply, jaded! I think that I would feel the same way if a friend was in my position. As I mentioned, I am working with a therapist now, and hopefully over time this will help with my perspective which I am aware often doesn`t put me in a secure position.

I am grateful for this community. Things with my ex are up and down. That is the baseline. For example, he started the day by saying we can`t be friends, later explaining it`s because he doesn`t want to become dependent on me, and finally called to apologize and thank me for being there. I recognize that I didn`t react as I once would, and I`m happy with that. I recognize that the anxiety that I felt in the past when he`d make this sort of announcement isn`t out of love or fear of missing him entirely; I get anxious because of the unknown of when if how he will contact me again. I think that`s something I want to work on; being okay if he did leave for good. Things have definitely shifted on my end, towards what exactly I`m not sure. I remember when I started posting on this forum, I hoped that after a few months everything would `smooth over`, and an indication of doing better would be that I didn`t post as much. What I`m finding instead is that I post here regardless. The relationship will not reach a perfectly pleasant state where I don`t to some extent benefit from a support group. The ups and downs come with the territory of these interactions.

Hi! I'm new here and dealing with a friend/roommate with possible bpd

I've known this girl for about 5 years and had a very good friendship with her mostly. She's always leaned on me a little more than I on her, but I have been fine with that. A few years ago I noticed that she was starting to copy everything I do and put me on a kind of pedestal. But friends influence each other, right? And who doesn't want to be idolized?

Over the past year, things have taken a bit of a turn. We will be totally fine and enjoying time together but the next day I'll receive multiple loooong text messages (the record is 24 in a row!) about how hurt she is and how she's done pretending she's ok when she's not. Another common thread is her positing that I have become someone she doesn't even know anymore. These have left me completely baffled as I thought things were all good and groovy.

Feeling very hurt by this, I initially responded to such messages by defending myself and my actions. I hoped that explaining my perspective would help diffuse the situation. However, I have been getting these text messages (she never confronts me in person, only over text even though I asked that if she is feeling hurt by me, that she bring it up in person given that we are roommates), with increasing frequency. She never specifically can pinpoint what I've done to hurt her, but seems to think I have crossed some boundary she set (maybe I did unintentionally, but truthfully, I cannot think of what). For a bit I just ignored her recent messages, but this just seemed to make things worse.

After reading Walking on Eggshells, I believe she may have BPD or at least some BPD traits. Knowing this, has helped me understand her behavior, but doesn't help that my feelings have been repeatedly hurt over the past year.

I am planning on moving out before our lease ends (I'll still pay rent dw), but would like to remain friends or at least friendly, but I have no idea how to break the news that I am leaving to her without her blowing up at me again.

I feel like I am walking on eggshells and know I have to get myself out of this situation out of care for myself, but I don't just want to throw our good times together down the drain.

Can someone go from being a pwBPD's favorite person to being just casual friends?
How can I tell my friend that I'm moving out without making it seem like I want to end our friendship and without making it seem like it's her fault (even though it is)?