Traditional marriage Vs Open Relationship

[lenriquehr]

Hey,

After 3+ years of loving relationship me and my partner started to get ready to marriage. We never really addressed the topic before but we had always said that we envisioned us as living together until death set us apart. (we even shared rings). I´m a religious person (Episcopalian)  preparing to enter seminary and he´s agnostic, so, there is some tension about religious values and grounds over there.

Now we have discovered that we have different views on marriage. I want a traditional, monogamous relationship and he expects to have a sort of open relationship (emotionally faithful but open to sexual intercourse outside of the relationship). That´s difficult to me, tried before and not for me, as a human person. It´s a non negotiable for me. He thinks differently and says my views are unrealistic.

I have read that people with BPD can have a tendency to open relationships, because of their need of feeling loved and desired. But, are they really healthy or desirable for the individual? (he has failed at least 3 attempts of this before, outing emotionally destroyed) It is advisable to try in a traditional marriage setting with a BPD person?

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[Ceruleanblue]

Welcome!

You are in a tough spot, as you already know. I couldn't be in an open relationship, and I don't know of anyone it's worked out well for, even those that don't deal with a personality disorder. I'd bet even if both partners were on board for it, there could be a lot of issues that can arise.

It sounds like he's throwing a game changer a little late in the game. What's worrying too is that he's already tried it, and it didn't work out for him, yet he's wanting to keep trying it. If he wants that, why not just stay single? I know everyone won't share my view though.

If you marry him, can you live with it? Or knowing that he has these views, will you be able to trust him if he agrees to be monogamous?

Is your partner diagnosed as BPD? That's hard enough, and I've read a lot of blogs on here of people who end up heartbroken after a spouse has cheated, or they've tried the "open relationship" and it did damage to them. I feel my BPDh cheated while we were separated, but at least we were separated, which makes it somewhat easier to forgive. I would not want to live married to him, and knowing that he isn't fully committed, and is planning dates with others. I just couldn't, or wouldn't do it.

Are you in therapy, so you can get some help weighing your options?

[rotiroti]

Heya,

What I am reading seems to have a very clear answer. Putting BPD off to the side, I feel like that sort of disagreement would be a deal-breaker for me.

You mention that an open-relationship is not for you, I do not think that is unrealistic at all. Most of my friends (late 20's early 30s) are involved in loving monogamous r/s. There are ones in successful and fulfilling open relationships as well, but that requires tremendous openess and communication, something that can be hard for a pwBPD.

[lenriquehr]

Welcome!

If you marry him, can you live with it? Or knowing that he has these views, will you be able to trust him if he agrees to be monogamous?

Is your partner diagnosed as BPD?

Are you in therapy, so you can get some help weighing your options?

Thanks Ceruleanblue!

I trust him beyond me. He will not cheat me IF he would agree to enter into a traditional marriage. The problem is that he is quite sure about the open relationship.

Yes, we are on therapy, but he´s not willing to share this matter with his therapist as apparently the guy has traditional views n marriage and can be biased. (that´s avoiding to me)

[lenriquehr]

Heya,

What I am reading seems to have a very clear answer. Putting BPD off to the side, I feel like that sort of disagreement would be a deal-breaker for me.

Thanks rotiroti!

Yes. It´s hard to me. It´s a non negotiable. But I´m afraid for him. We have overcome so many things along these years and achieved so many milestones together that I think if I live he will end his life (has tried it unsuccessfully before)

[Notwendy]

This is a tough one. Even without BPD, there is a fundamental difference in values between the two of you and this would be tough for any couple.

I think it is good that the two of you are being honest with each other about this up front. I think it is a good thing for couples to discuss their values honestly before marriage. I am not sure that enough of them do. I think this is the point of "engagement" the planning and discussing goals, hopes, wishes and values before the marriage. It is heartbreaking to break off a serious relationship, but much harder to dissolve a marriage.

Nobody is perfect, but there are some situations between people that are deal breakers. Religion can be one of them if two people each want  their own religion practiced exclusively in the home.  If one values fidelity and a traditional marriage and the other does not, then this is a possible deal breaker as well- even if there is love there. For you to be married any other way could violate your core values. For your partner to go against his wishes could be he doesn't live according to his.

This is not a situation exclusive to BPD, but a difference in core values. I wish you the best in this, as it is hard to consider this, but it is with honesty and love that you are both being up front about it.

[Notwendy]

I see where BPD can impact your acting on your core values if you fear for his life. This is a hard situation.

[lenriquehr]

This is not a situation exclusive to BPD, but a difference in core values. I wish you the best in this, as it is hard to consider this, but it is with honesty and love that you are both being up front about it.

Thanks notwendy!

That´s my hope, that honesty can help us sort this thing out!

[Fian]

Bible makes it clear that marriage should not be "open".  Whether that is a convincing argument is up to you to decide but keep the following in mind:

1.  If the Bible is truly the Word of an omniscient god then you have to assume that He had a reason for designing marriage that way.

2.  If you view the Bible as just the word of man, even then, it is a tried and true relationship that has been proven to work.  Why risk running an experiment with something as important as marriage?

One final thought.  I saw a posting recently where a person with BPD in an open marriage, fell in love with the third person, and it was destroying their marriage.  Once you open the door, you can't be sure what the relationship will be with the third person.

[HappyNihilist]

  Hi lenriquehr, and welcome to the family! I'm glad you found us - there are lots of people here who understand. It helps to talk. 

You're in a tough spot.   It's great that the two of you have been talking about issues like this before getting married. But it's disconcerting to realize that the two of you have such different views on marriage. Also, you're concerned about his health and safety if you were to end the relationship. I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

You say that a monogamous, traditional marriage is "non-negotiable" for you. You know what you need and want out of a marriage. Being in an open marriage would be against your core values and expectations.

He feels that a monogamous marriage is "unrealistic" and has the expectation of being able to have sexual intercourse outside of the marriage. You believe that he wouldn't cheat if you held him to the monogamous, traditional marriage that you desire. But being in a monogamous marriage would be against his values/expectations.

If you were to get married, one of you would have to compromise your expectations. That's a difficult place to be.

Open relationships can definitely work, but they require a lot of openness and communication and maturity. These aren't necessarily things that come easy to someone with BPD. As you said, he's tried and failed three times before with an open relationship. That's definitely a pattern, and not one that bodes well for anything different happening with your relationship.

Have you talked with him about what caused the previous three open relationships to fail? Is he willing to learn from those experiences?

I don't advise anyone to sacrifice who they are and what they value for anyone else. But there is room for discussion and possible compromise in a relationship. Keep being honest and open, and don't rush into the marriage before you feel comfortable with the direction it will go in.

[formflier]

 lenriquehr,


It seems that you have your core values sorted out... .

I think you need to address this in T... .not with a goal to convince him... .or anyone else that he is right... .or wrong... .or you  are right or wrong.

Big life issues like this need to be communicated in a an even... .non-judgemental... .yet firm way.

The T can help manage the "temperature" of the discussion and make sure that each side can discuss things clearly.

Have equal time... and all that.

Ultimately you will have to figure out what YOU want the future of the r/s to look like for YOU.  If the other person is not willing to share the same vision... .that is their choice... .and then you have a choice to make.

 

Please keep posting about this... .

FF 

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

BPD or no BPD, I don't see how anyone can go into a marriage with this 'issue' unresolved.

It´s a non negotiable for me. He thinks differently and says my views are unrealistic.

Gee, he wants to screw around the rest of his life without consequences and the tool he uses to get you to go along with him is calling your views unrealistic... .

Non-negotiable is the norm.

Do NOT agree to this until you've completed seminary.  I wouldn't want to attend a church with a pastor in an 'open' marriage and certainly would tell people to flee from such a person instead of approaching them for spiritual counseling... .

[Notwendy]

So , your partner thinks your goals are unrealistic. They are not unrealistic to people who want a traditional marriage. People have attained them. Some have made mistakes, but they still entered the marriage with this goal. What your partner may be saying is not that your goal is unreasonable for you, but that this goal is unreasonable for him.

[Notwendy]

One way to look at this is without judging either values and considering who is most likely to be affected by the differences.


You are religious and your partner is not. This only becomes an issue to either of you if you want the other person to feel similarly or participate.

For instance, if you wish for a partner to worship with you, read the Bible with you, go to church with you, then your partner might not want to do this. But if both of you are fine with doing your own thing religiously, then this may not be an issue.

As to fidelity in marriage. For your partner, an open type marriage is fine with him, so whether or not you choose to be faithful physically is OK with him, since his idea is each person can choose to do this or not as long as you are emotionally faithful to each other.

For you though, for your partner to be physically intimate with someone else is something that would bother you. Your core values affect you. Your partner is who he is. So- he's fine with what you want to do. You are not fine with what he wants to do. The decision to stay in this relationship or not is up to you. This is your value to act on or not.  I know this isn't easy to consider what to do.

[thisagain]

You've been in a monogamous relationship for three years and he's just now springing it on you that he doesn't believe in monogamy? 

I'm wondering if this is just a fleeting impulse that occurred to him because the marriage talk is scaring him? My partner tends to bring up the open relationship possibility when things are going "well" with us and so she gets scared of getting too close. Then once I tell her that's a dealbreaker, she flips over to the abandonment fear and says she didn't mean it and begs me not to leave her. Just tonight, after a few weeks of overall huge improvement since I've been applying the lessons here, she picked a fight with me about some inappropriate "friendships".

Whether it's a whim of his or a consistent value/expectation, I would be VERY careful about taking the next step in your relationship (living together, marriage, etc) until you've sorted this out. I don't know anything else about what your partner is like, but I don't think it's realistic to expect a person with untreated BPD to have a monogamous marriage if they have expressed desire to sleep with others. If he's a typical pwBPD, he has problems with empathy (considering how his actions will make you feel), feeling too controlled or tied down by you, painting you black / devaluing you and your relationship, and impulsive behavior. That's a recipe for cheating.

I don't think my partner would cheat in a deliberate or premeditated way, but I do worry about what happens one day when I say something innocuous that makes her paint me black and decide I'm ruining her life, then she sees an attractive person, she feels deeply threatened by the idea that I want to keep her from having sex with that person, she's unable to step back and consider anything other than the extreme emotion she's experiencing in that moment, and there you go. That's one of the many reasons why I won't live with her or get engaged until we're having less conflict.