Desperate and ashamed of what I have become

[jrharvey]

Hello. I use to be on here long ago but got away from posting because I felt focusing on BPD was just making things worse. I have been married to my wife almost 6 years now and we dated 2 years before that. Its always been wild from the beginning. My wife is undiagnosed but there is no doubt that she has BPD. We just couldnt stick with a therapist long enough to even get a read on her. Even if she was diagnosed we dont have the money for treatment. Anyways we all know what BPD is and how it turns up in our wife or loved one so this post is not about her. It is about myself.

Ill cut to the chase and be honest that I am so ashamed of what I have become. I have become the abuser. When we fight I am always the loudest one. When she gets in my face I get closer. When she slams things down I will throw it across the room. I am writing because I have hit rock bottom. I lost it. We had an episode where my business partner came by the house to drop off a check and he kept talking about work for about an hour and then he left. Something very small. I was shocked when I came in and she was very angry and yelling that I had talked too long. I was "chit chatting" and wasting time. I did all the typical wrong things like trying to logically explain we were talking about work but it wasnt working "of course". I got sucked down the logic rabbit hole and this went on for 3 hours. It escalated to her screaming, I screamed and we took a lot of brakes. I kept trying to come back with love but she kept pushing me away. It was when she decided to start packing her bags to leave that triggered me. I completely lost it. I just started breaking everything. Every wedding photo, everything glass in the house, every peice of furnitre, I ripped the front door off the hinges. When i finally calmed down I realized I didnt even remember any of this. There were holes in every single wall of the house. Looked like a demolition. I had deeply cut my hand and there was blood everyhwere and on everything. I lost so much blood I passed out for a second. As I lay on the floor trying to hold my wound in, exhausted and giving up she completely switched. She went to being the nurturing, loving caretaking wife she normally is. She said she was so sorry and that all this was her fault etc... etc...

I could make excuses enough to fill a book and complain about everything she has done to hurt me and be extremely abusive but it doesnt change the fact of the things I have done and become. I have not been directly violent to her physically. I have always tried my best to restrain myself the best I could with the exception of a few instances. For example she had an episode, got in my face, spit on me then slapped me at her parents house and I slapped her back. There are some other things that are similar but nothing worse than this. Yes I understand any amount of physical is too much. Thats why I am here.

I went so long feeling abused and feeling like a victim something one day just snapped. I couldnt just be submissive anymore. I couldnt just take a beating and get back up. I was trying to set boundaries with her and of course really triggered her and maybe I took the boundaries too far and too fast for her to handle. I wasnt prepared for the hurricane that came next and I was never able to just let her fire burn out. I always had to react. I tried so, so, so hard to not react and let it effect me but I think she always found a way to use my own triggers against me.

I need to figure something out and I dont know what to do. I dont know where to start. I am so full of anger and pain I dont trust myself to do anything right during an episode. I cant ever go back to that place. She is acting like nothing ever happened but I cannot continue like this. I need this fixed NOW. I dont know how to control this, I dont know where to start. I am completely lost. I have tried just about everything.

I do love my wife very much. I dont want a divorce and she says she doesnt either. There has to be a way to have something of a life that isnt this. There must be.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[kells76]

Hey jrharvey, just want you to know that your post has been seen.

I hear you that there's a lot going on, and you are seeing your part in it. You recognize that how you're responding isn't right, and you want there to be a better way, a different way, almost anything but this.

We are all broken people here. We are all hurtful in our own ways. The difference in life isn't between "the people who aren't hurtful" and "the people who are hurtful". The difference is: "the people who acknowledge they're hurtful" and "the people who don't acknowledge it".

What I recognize about you right now is that you are having this experience that is showing you, in hard detail, what you are capable of, what kind of person you can be. I recognize that you see it and it's abhorrent to you. You aren't justifying what you're doing.

That seems like something positive to hold onto, in the chaos of what's going on. You may be at rock bottom, yet you aren't pretending "it's not so bad".

I want to reassure you that there is a team here who can step in and offer more support and specific guidance. I also hear you that finances are a hurdle for getting more help. You may not know that the DV hotline (https://www.thehotline.org/) not only is free and has call, text, and chat options, but it is also open for people who want to change and become less violent. I am confident that if you explained the complexity of your situation that they would understand.

Let us know how you're doing again, whenever works for you. There is definitely hope to "stop the bleeding" and for you to learn and move forward.

kells76

[Cat Familiar]

I get what it means to hit rock bottom after years of being in an abusive relationship. One night my ex husband (we were still married at the time) threw something at me, not something that could have hurt me, but nevertheless…

Then he chased me down the driveway. For the first time ever, I yelled for help, not that help was possible, since it’s a rural area with large parcels of land, but there are neighbors.

I had never called for help before, as I was embarrassed at what our relationship was like, but in doing so he quit chasing me. Previously it would have played out that he might have knocked me to the ground and grabbed my throat, or hit me in the belly, and I would be gasping for breath.

This time, something happened within me and I was totally done. I walked back to the house, removed my wedding ring, and grabbed a blanket for the couch. I slept on the couch that night with a knife in my hand, hidden by the blanket.

I was determined that if he tried to attack me in my sleep, I would fight to the death. Thankfully he didn’t.

My rage had a cold steely element with a premeditated plan, whereas yours was more visceral and instinctual. What makes our stories similar is how out of character this behavior is for us.

Thankfully I’ve never gotten to that place again, and in my case, this was the end of the marriage.

You, however, would like to repair things and figure out how to improve your relationship in the future. I urge you to look into Kells’ suggestion and find some counseling. If you are near a college or university, there could be a program for grad students doing internships in counseling psychology. Please check into resources your area offers. I’m sure you can find something.

What I want to tell you is that I completely understand how it’s possible to explode with rage after stuffing emotions for years. You are not alone and you don’t have to ever experience this again, but you do need someone to talk with. It’s not healthy to have to bottle up your feelings for so long.

Cat

[jrharvey]

Thank you Kells. Yes I desperately want to be able to control myself. Its not me. Its not who I am. Ive never been an angry or even close to a violent person in all my life. Being a man and seeing myself lose control is terrifying and I never want to do that again. It shouldnt matter how crazy she becomes, it shouldnt matter what she does. I desperately want to get to a place where I do not react but I honestly feel like I dont even know where to start to learn to cope. Its not for a lack of trying. I have tried endlessly to find programs or research or youtube and even talking with counselors on betterhelp to find some way. BTW Betterhelp has been nothing but a money pit and completely useless. I dont think Ive gotten anything good out of it except venting and waiting sometimes days for a generic copy/paste response. Problem is I feel like the advice is not meant for relationships this intense with this much pressure and this much insanity. The advice may work well for most but for example if my wife gets triggered and I start to feel angry and take the advice to exit the situation and leave the room it triggers my wifes fear of abandonment and she follows me now even more angry. I cant leave the house for the same reason and even if I tried she would block the car or stand in the street. Its constant, in your face, in your face non stop until I explode. For a long time (years) I blamed this on her 100%. Its become natural and instinctual to just blow up now. Maybe I felt some sense of taking back power in the relationship and maybe for a little bit I felt someone good that I wasnt the submissive weak little man that just sat there getting abused emotionally and physically by his wife. Unfortunatley the tables have turned and I think the last event was just too much. Her mother wants her to move back home after all this and obviously it makes me feel very ashamed. That makes it even more difficult because I dont think anyone at this point understands or sympathizes with me and Im not even sure if they should. Im just the typical abusive, angry husband now. Just makes it 10 times worse to deal with because even thinking about calling the DV hotline scares the living crap out of me.

I do love my wife very much and I believe she loves me very much and wants this to work. I was hoping with all this venting that someone, somewhere may have some type of solutions. Im a really dedicated person and would try any program, do any research, practice whatever if it meant getting better for myself. I just need a place to start really.

Obviously the advice I have gotten has been to get out, take a break and take some time for myself. My wife is adamantly opposed to this obviously because of her extreme fear of abandonment. I do think it will help me find myself again and maybe clear my head but I also may come back and not have a wife anymore. Im not sure she could take it and I dont really want to do that to her either. Its been a struggle. Even taking time to think to myself in the home typically triggers her fear of abandonment. Granted that was my fault because I was in a mood and didnt talk to her first to explain I was feeling down.

[kells76]

Sorry if this question is something you've already done -- just getting more of a feel for where you are at:

have you already read the book "The High Conflict Couple" by Dr. Alan Fruzzetti?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=73976.0

Let me know either way.

It also seems to me that what you're doing here -- just getting so much of it "on paper" -- is also important.

So you are making a start.

I also understand some of the conflicted feelings about calling a hotline:

even thinking about calling the DV hotline scares the living crap out of me.

I know that the suicide hotline is there and free and available, but I struggle with trusting whoever might be on the other end. So, you're not alone in not being sure about using a "hotline" type resource. It's not for everyone.

...

How is this evening shaping up so far?

[jrharvey]

Thank you. Edit: actually yes I read the book many years ago down my journey of bpd. I will go back and read again.

[kells76]

Yeah, I'll be curious to hear if you get some new insights the second time around. Or, you might see that it isn't a good fit for your situation, and we can go from there. Win win.

Hope you get some moments of calm tonight;

kells76

[15years]

I relate to the feeling when you no longer get any satisfaction from a submissive role. Suddenly finding oneself becoming very angry, it feels like the other side of a spectrum. It's good to no longer be submissive, but reacting with anger only seems to escalate emotions to an extreme in both parties.

The level of emotions that exist in those kind of situations are not to be taken lightly, it increases step by step as the fight progresses, until it finally runs out of energy. To then listen to the pwBPDs euphoric feelings about the future of the relationship is hard when we nowadays are aware of how dysfunctional it is.

[Cliffton]

I know EXACTLY where you are coming from as my partner knows all and every button to press and how hard it is to remain calm and controlled. Like you, I have lost it BIG time - once on holiday in the middle of the night after enduring hours and hours of provocation with my 8 year old son (from a previous marriage) sleeping in the next room separated by only a sliding door. Absolute, out of body and uncontrollable rage like I have never experienced before - horrible.

We split when we returned from holiday for about a month and have split 4 times since but I have never lost it again to that extent although I've come close - much to my shame and embarrassment.

The thing is we can only control ourselves - we certainly can't control our partners and therefore we have to work on ourselves in order to not get dragged down this route again - as hard as that can be.

I will remove myself from the situation if I feel it building and go outside, for a walk or do anything to get away from the increasing conflict but we all know it isn't easy.

Ultimately we have a choice to make as to whether we carry on  (in the hope that things will improve) or we walk away or we modify the dynamics of the relationship to see if that can help. I've come to the conclusion that I cannot live with my partner; I'm unsure where that leaves us - seeing each other occasionally or just going on holiday together ( she's usually great on holiday but usually splits immediately upon our return.

I wish I had a magic answer for all of us; I really do

[SinisterComplex]

Thank you Kells. Yes I desperately want to be able to control myself. Its not me. Its not who I am. Ive never been an angry or even close to a violent person in all my life. Being a man and seeing myself lose control is terrifying and I never want to do that again. It shouldnt matter how crazy she becomes, it shouldnt matter what she does. I desperately want to get to a place where I do not react but I honestly feel like I dont even know where to start to learn to cope. Its not for a lack of trying. I have tried endlessly to find programs or research or youtube and even talking with counselors on betterhelp to find some way. BTW Betterhelp has been nothing but a money pit and completely useless. I dont think Ive gotten anything good out of it except venting and waiting sometimes days for a generic copy/paste response. Problem is I feel like the advice is not meant for relationships this intense with this much pressure and this much insanity. The advice may work well for most but for example if my wife gets triggered and I start to feel angry and take the advice to exit the situation and leave the room it triggers my wifes fear of abandonment and she follows me now even more angry. I cant leave the house for the same reason and even if I tried she would block the car or stand in the street. Its constant, in your face, in your face non stop until I explode. For a long time (years) I blamed this on her 100%. Its become natural and instinctual to just blow up now. Maybe I felt some sense of taking back power in the relationship and maybe for a little bit I felt someone good that I wasnt the submissive weak little man that just sat there getting abused emotionally and physically by his wife. Unfortunatley the tables have turned and I think the last event was just too much. Her mother wants her to move back home after all this and obviously it makes me feel very ashamed. That makes it even more difficult because I dont think anyone at this point understands or sympathizes with me and Im not even sure if they should. Im just the typical abusive, angry husband now. Just makes it 10 times worse to deal with because even thinking about calling the DV hotline scares the living crap out of me.

I do love my wife very much and I believe she loves me very much and wants this to work. I was hoping with all this venting that someone, somewhere may have some type of solutions. Im a really dedicated person and would try any program, do any research, practice whatever if it meant getting better for myself. I just need a place to start really.

Obviously the advice I have gotten has been to get out, take a break and take some time for myself. My wife is adamantly opposed to this obviously because of her extreme fear of abandonment. I do think it will help me find myself again and maybe clear my head but I also may come back and not have a wife anymore. Im not sure she could take it and I dont really want to do that to her either. Its been a struggle. Even taking time to think to myself in the home typically triggers her fear of abandonment. Granted that was my fault because I was in a mood and didnt talk to her first to explain I was feeling down.

So JRHarvey...I will ask some quick questions and then I will chime back in tomorrow. You know your wife cannot regulate her emotions so let's focus on you. Be honest here...how do you feel about yourself? How would you describe your baseline behavior and personality? Are you able to be calm, cool, collected? How often do you feel you are going to lose it? In those moments when you feel triggered or when you feel rage what are your thoughts? What coping mechanisms do you currently rely on? What were your coping mechanisms in the past? The point here is that I will ask piercing questions as a means to get you to write out your thoughts. Typically the best teacher is going to be yourself. What my aim is here is to create open dialogue and not regurgitate crap you've probably already heard or been told.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[jrharvey]

Hi SC. Yes, I do completely understand that my wife cannot regulate her emotions or control herself. I've given up trying to control her at least in my thoughts. My actions might still be very controlling I guess. I really really try hard to just accept her for who she is and ride it out but for some reason my mind just doesn't think normal when I'm under the stress. In any other situation when I'm not around my wife, my baseline is very calm and collected. I never argue with anyone my entire life outside of my marriage. I've never been angry or violent outside of my marriage. I've always been the coolest head in the room. If you ask any of my friends they always say I am a little too nice. Of course, being too nice can be a problem as well and I understand that and worked on that years ago. It was difficult in the beginning of our relationship because I felt like I was a deer being run over by a tractor trailer being my wife.

We had a big fight yesterday again. For some reason things seem really really bad lately. I don't know what the deal is but had a relatively long time period of calm and all the sudden it's fighting almost everyday. I'll go through all my thoughts of what happened yesterday. Although I didn't get angry enough to break things, I was still raging pissed off.

I was on the phone for work and I didn't realize how long it had lasted. Phone call was an hour. Person I was talking to was an old friend who called me with help about a project and we got into talking about my recent trip to Vietnam and my dog and stuff because they are my friend. I just went along with it. Not thinking too much. I thought everything was fine and even after the call went up to my wife kissed her and offered to make her coffee because she had just got out of bed. I had no idea the whole time she was triggered and really pissed. She went off on me saying I was chit-chatting on the phone and not working and that I was wasting time. I did a typical trying to talk to her and saying I understand but this is a friend I haven't talked to in a very long time and it was work related and they just happened to ask me questions about other stuff and it went on. Got more upset and started raising your voice and I started raising my voice. In my head I am thinking right away getting offended because why am I not allowed to talk to a friend on the phone? She talks to friends all the time and why does she think so bad of me for doing the same thing? I then stop myself and think okay It's just her getting upset. No big deal. Tried to talk calm a little more but every word upsets her more. In my head I am thinking okay. Here it goes again. I guess it's going to be another fight and nothing I can do about it. We both agreed to stay quiet and just do our own thing. She goes outside and works and I stay inside and try to work but I can't focus. I tried to take my mind off of it and forget but the images and pictures of everything that happened keep popping up. I try to push it away and it just keeps being forced on me in my head. I cycle between thinking that it will be okay She just needs time to cool off and this is totally unfair and why is she being a hypocrite? In the meantime, I realize I can't get any work done. It's been 2 hours and I haven't gotten a single thing done because I can't focus and can't do anything. Then I start to get angry that I can't get work done and start to blame her. She knows I have trouble with this and she decided to start a fight anyways. She was so worried about me wasting time and working but now she has ruined the entire day and I can't work at all. Now that's stuck in my head. I try to push that away and just say okay. Calm down. Calm down. Calm down but I can't. I can't just sit here and not know what she is thinking. I go outside and try to talk to her. She's obviously still sarcastic and acting cold and distant. I thought maybe I would walk out and suddenly she would be saying sorry but I should have known better. My intent was to talk it out but of course with her being sarcastic I now start blurting out things like the fact that she was worried about wasting time. But now the entire day is done because she had to start s***. Now I'm saying stupid stuff like you always try to ruin things when it's good. Now she's being even more sarcastic and saying things like there you go again. Let it out. Let it out. Let it out. Show the world who you really are blah blah blah. I get angry and say I need time to myself. I'm getting really upset and I need to go. I tell her I can't be in this house with her like this and I need to get out before I get angry. She's sarcastically said you do whatever you want and I can do what I want. Meaning she will leave as well and go who knows where. I go take a shower and somehow the warm water cools me down emotionally. I start to think about the book that kells recommended that I've been listening to again. I go back and read the list of things that I can do to call me down. The first thing I read is to think about the positive effects of giving a positive reaction and the negative effects of giving a negative reaction. I remember that it finally the house they will trigger her cause more problems so I decided to stay. She walks in and says she's sorry and I say I'm sorry and I'm not leaving. She asked what changed my mind and I said I read the notes and show her. Unfortunately she started bringing up what happened again and I got defensive again. I don't even remember what happened but it blew up that she went back outside. This point all I can think about is all the stuff she did in the past to hurt me. Thinking about how I've never actually had a birthday with her because she always gets triggered and loses her temper and leaves. Maybe she is upset that a little bit of attention is on me. I don't know. I think about how she's threatened divorce when I had to go home to visit my mom because she has a stroke. I think about how she came to visit my mom and her house after she had her stroke and needed rest and she started a huge blow up fight causing my mom to be extremely stressed out and really pissing her off telling her to get out of the house. I think about how many times I've been in another country and she abandoned me when I don't know the language. I keep thinking about the fact that the things that she gets upset about I can't do anything to change. Even if I wanted to change it now at this point the things she is upset about are just random everyday stuff that makes no sense. Like she will get upset about one day if I want to drink coffee even though she knows I drink coffee every single day for. For example, if someone sends me a friend request on Facebook that I don't know. I can't control that crap. She told me to leave the house in Vietnam because I got a random friend request. Even her parents said she was crazy and needed to calm down but she wanted me to get out of her house. I could go on and on and on and think about all kinds of different stuff but it's just a long list.


At that point the next time we met we just exploded right away and yelling and screaming at each other. Each person yelling louder until she got upset and got her keys and left the house. I left the house too afterwards.

I know I have to stop these thoughts but for some reason I physically can't and I don't know how. That's what I need work on. Maybe it's my body's way of telling me that just can't do this anymore. I don't know. I want to be able to just let everything go and have a happy marriage but it just seems so impossible and pointless.

[Cat Familiar]

You are still buying into her model of the world. What makes you think you need her permission or approval to do what you want?

If you quit JADEing (Justifying, Arguing, Defending, Explaining), you will quit engaging in these circular pointless arguments.

I was on the phone for work and I didn't realize how long it had lasted.  Phone call was an hour. EXPLAINING Person I was talking to was an old friend who called me with help about a project and we got into talking about my recent trip to Vietnam and my dog and stuff because they are my friend. JUSTIFYING I just went along with it. Not thinking too much. EXPLAINING I thought everything was fine and even after the call went up to my wife kissed her and offered to make her coffee because she had just got out of bed. I had no idea the whole time she was triggered and really pissed. She went off on me saying I was chit-chatting on the phone and not working and that I was wasting time. I did a typical trying to talk to her and saying I understand but this is a friend I haven't talked to in a very long time and it was work related and they just happened to ask me questions about other stuff and it went on. JUSTIFYING/DEFENDING Got more upset and started raising your voice and I started raising my voice. In my head I am thinking right away getting offended because why am I not allowed to talk to a friend on the phone? She talks to friends all the time and why does she think so bad of me for doing the same thing? DEFENDING/ARGUING


I do some things my husband might not agree with or approve of (I get really involved with politics—and we’re on the same side, but he thinks I spend too much time and focus). It’s not his business, as long as it doesn’t interfere with our relationship, which it doesn’t.

It’s not your wife’s business who you talk with, how long you talk, and what you talk about. Period.

There’s nothing about that conversation that you need to apologize for, defend, justify or explain.

When I have seen a look of disapproval from my husband, I just smile, shrug my shoulders, and keep on doing what I’m doing.

You’ve given her too much authority over you. Time to retake your autonomy.

[jrharvey]

Yeah I mean deep down inside I know I shouldn't have to defend and justify but how do I stop without starting a war and if there is a war how do I control my own self?

[Cat Familiar]

You just stop.

War takes more than one participant.

You exit gracefully, telling her you will be back in say an hour. If she’s still upset, do it again…and again.

Nothing good will come from trying to reason with her when she’s upset.

Period.

[jrharvey]

Cat... You mentioned this.

You are still buying into her model of the world. What makes you think you need her permission or approval to do what you want?

I already know this and often times this exact quote is my biggest trigger. I 100% agree that I don't need her permission to be on a phone call but the problem is when she is angry and trying to tell me that I am wrong. I get all pumped up and trying to stand my ground and set boundaries. The very thing that sets me off is telling myself over and over that I don't need her permission and why does she continue to demand it? I am a person and I can do what I want etc. And she is trying to troll me. The fact that she wants me to stay in her little box or else my life as hell is one of the main reasons I lose my temper and go out of control. I don't know how to not lose control at this point. It's not as simple as telling myself not to. I have told myself over and over and over and over and over again not to lose it. I have tried and tried to keep my calm. I have left the house. I have left the room I have done just about everything and no matter what I do and how much I try to stop my thinking I just end up losing control. I am able to control myself for a long time and under pretty heated circumstances, but the more she throws a fit, The more she insults me, the more she yells and screams and tells me she wants a divorce or tells me to leave or whatever at some point I eventually snap. Yeah I can leave the house and go somewhere. I have spent many nights in the hotel especially when we are traveling. The problem is her parents get really upset with me for leaving thinking. I am abandoning her. I also don't calm down. I stay angry for days. Even if she is apologizing so much and begging me to come back and so angry for days. Sometimes I can act normal the next day but I just don't let things go the way that she does. Maybe about 6 hours later. Everything can be destroyed and she thinks it's all okay but not me. I am very, very deeply hurt for a long time. Hell I'm still hurt and angry about things that happen months or even years ago. Maybe that's part of the problem and maybe that's why I get so angry. If I could let go of all of the past I would but it's tough when the past is like yesterday.

[Cat Familiar]

You’ve got a deep reserve of anger. I understand. I did too, in my previous marriage, even long after I divorced him.

Perhaps the reason you feel you need to stand your ground is that you think there is something valid in her criticisms. If you can tell yourself she’s full of  then perhaps you can not get triggered.

Just think of her as a toddler throwing a tantrum, because that’s essentially what it is.

And why even stick around for a minute listening to this bull ? If you were to leave within a minute of it happening, and consistently do that every time, telling her you’ll be back in a half hour (time enough for her amygdala to calm down), she will eventually quit doing it.

But you have to do it EVERY  TIME!

Also see if you can find free counseling in your area. No one needs to be carrying the burden of years of unresolved anger.

[SinisterComplex]

JRH...I am happy my teammate Cat chimed in here. Cat responded along the lines of how I would've responded. Not surprising we align sometimes, but I digress and place my focus upon you.

I will back Cat up here and put it like this...you need to NIKE this S ! What I mean is...no talking about it, no thinking about it...Just Do It! As in...breakaway and do what you have to do to keep yourself from making mistakes and gain space away from her so she can calm down. You truly need to focus on fortifying a BS force field around you. She is going lob insults at you and strive to get you to engage, etc so she has the upper hand, I don't need to tell you this...you know this so you need to find a way to refrain from engaging. The definition of insanity applies here...you are doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So how about you try something different to break the destructive cycle? Will it be easy? No. Will it feel awkward and unnatural at first? Yes...definitely, but that doesn't mean that you change course. No, you stay the course and battle through the muck to find happiness.

So here is a moment of tough love...you need to put time and effort into the art of not giving a S . I'm serious. I see too much well I do this, but she has a problem or her parents have a problem. Well guess what? Tough S that is a THEM problem, not a YOU problem. Focus on doing YOU ok? Something I need you to try to wrap your head around...adopt the mind set that it is better to be respected than liked. I will reiterate a favorite phrase of mine...if you try to please everyone you will effectively please no one!

Conflict and confrontation are necessary if you want to grow and move forward but my friend you have to remain calm and steadfast and learn to stay in control of your emotions and not let your emotions control you.

Now head up good sir. You can do this and you will do this. Do not lose hope. And a tip for you...pretend you put on an imaginary rain coat every day because my friend you will have BS  rain upon you every day. The difference between those who are happy and successful and those who are unhappy and struggling is the happy and successful people let BS brush right off their rain coat and go about their business because it is out of their control. The unhappy and struggling people let the BS ruin their day.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC- 

[jrharvey]

So ok, just to clarify this is what I am dealing with. Maybe your answer wont change but in my opinion it changes everything with my own actions.

Im not doing the same thing over and over. I am trying different things. I HAVE BEEN saying screw it and leaving over and over and over again. So many times I have told her I cant be around you right now when your being like this and I am leaving. Ill pack my stuff and go find a hotel somewhere.

The problem is this ALWAYS makes this worse. Her family now thinks that I am the bad guy here. The last time we faught at her parents house it was brutal. I had already spent the night at a local hotel because my wife lost her shiz and her dad missed work and spent all night and morning calling and going from place to place to place looking for me. When I did finally come back he was so exhausted and upset with me for leaving.

Not even a few days later she got raging because of something silly like a friend request on FB from some random girl I dont know and of course thought I was screwing her when I left the house that other day or something. Who knows. We argued and I said I need to go. I tried to leave and of course her parents are freaking out trying to hold me, stop me from leaving. They locked the doors and hid the key so I couldnt get out. Come to find out its her moms birthday and they are begging me to just calm down and go to the birthday party. I tell them I cant do that and for them to go without me because I cant be around this toxic environment with a wife that friggen hates me right now. And of course now I am the bad guy. Im the one that is the angry, selfish, crazy one that wont even go to my mother in laws birthday becasue my wife is acting up and its not her because we all know how she is. I hear them say... just forgive her, just love her. "Please just love her". WTF! You have any idea how much I love her and how hard I am trying? Come on... she just said if we divorced she would take my house? WTF! They say no, she just wants to feel loved. She just needs love. "Please love her". Jesus.

That was just a devistating experience. It was embarrasing. Her parents know shes nuts. They have talked and talked and talked to her but of course nothing helps much. And of course everyone relies on me to be the strong one. To them I AM THE MAN. I am the strong one. I need to be there for her. I need to love her no matter what because she NEEDS me. I cant just abandon her when she NEEDS me. They want me to be a rock. She can scream, insult, hate, hit, do whatever she needs to do and stay strong. They dont think I am good for her anymore and want her to leave and live at home because #1 I keep leaving the house and abandoning her and #2 I keep losing my temper when she has her episodes. During the last big fight they kept texting me, begging me to not leave the house and then finally they just told me to let her come home and move back. Now they just text me that they want her to move home and nothing else.

You think I dont want to not give a shiz? Of course! I would love to just hapily not give any Fs in the world and just go about my day while she loses it like a todler but for some reason I cant find the skills or power to do that. Right now I give way too many Fs. Its my marriage. Its my family. Its my entire future. Either she and they are in it or not and I either try or I dont.

The entire purpose of being here on this forum right now is to see if there is ANY WAY at all possible to be that rock they want me to be and that everyone seems to think I should be. Just not react when she goes nuts.

Leaving the house obviously causes more problems that it solves. IDK. Maybe its still the right thing to do but its already caused so much pain and anger from everyone I just dont know what the right thing is.

[15years]

Your parents in law puts a lot of responsibility on you, like not even discreet. They are participating in abusing you.

When you're being the strong one, you might be fine for a while, her raging/lecturing/guilt trpping, you listening. But when she has released her aggression yours has just been built up and later it's easy for her to trigger a break down from you. I did the same literally one hour ago and that was after reading this post so I should have known better, it's hard. I'm out taking a walk (we parted on good terms) and when I get back she will believe we have resolved something, but we haven't. That's another reason why it's important to not stay there for the show. Be assertive whatever that means...

What I do notice is that you seem to be explaining your boundaries to her and her parents. It's understandable but it would be more effective to just do it. "I need/needed to take a break, I'm getting/was getting upset.".

I think your PIL would understand. But if you're telling them you needed to leave because their daughter was crazy, they will feel obligated to defend her.

Her moving in with her parents, that wouldn't probably end well for them. I think they need you. They're taking rescuer role now for their victim daughter and saving her from you the persecutor. If you're out of the picture, they wouldn't be heroes for long.


Edit:
Yes I was right, now got back from my walk:
"Sorry things got intense ...(hug)... I love you"
"I love you too"

All good now then? No because she still sees herself as the victim.

[Cat Familiar]

You’ve got a longstanding pattern here with your wife being out of control, her parents expecting you to be the mental health bodyguard, and you enduring years of abuse.

This is serious stuff that is not going to go away easily. You definitely need some professional help before things get worse.

What local resources have you looked into?

[jrharvey]

Your parents in law puts a lot of responsibility on you, like not even discreet. They are participating in abusing you.

When you're being the strong one, you might be fine for a while, her raging/lecturing/guilt trpping, you listening. But when she has released her aggression yours has just been built up and later it's easy for her to trigger a break down from you. I did the same literally one hour ago and that was after reading this post so I should have known better, it's hard. I'm out taking a walk (we parted on good terms) and when I get back she will believe we have resolved something, but we haven't. That's another reason why it's important to not stay there for the show. Be assertive whatever that means...

What I do notice is that you seem to be explaining your boundaries to her and her parents. It's understandable but it would be more effective to just do it. "I need/needed to take a break, I'm getting/was getting upset.".

I think your PIL would understand. But if you're telling them you needed to leave because their daughter was crazy, they will feel obligated to defend her.

Her moving in with her parents, that wouldn't probably end well for them. I think they need you. They're taking rescuer role now for their victim daughter and saving her from you the persecutor. If you're out of the picture, they wouldn't be heroes for long.


Edit:
Yes I was right, now got back from my walk:
"Sorry things got intense ...(hug)... I love you"
"I love you too"

All good now then? No because she still sees herself as the victim.

Thanks for that post and I get it. Everything you say is helpful. I dont think my wife sees herself as the victim when all is said and done. She generally legit takes the blame but she also tends to push it away and think "ok thats the past" now.

[jrharvey]

You’ve got a longstanding pattern here with your wife being out of control, her parents expecting you to be the mental health bodyguard, and you enduring years of abuse.

This is serious stuff that is not going to go away easily. You definitely need some professional help before things get worse.

What local resources have you looked into?

Thanks Cat. I havent seeked out help in years but back a few years ago I had seen multiple counselors, read all the books, was on this forum daily and gave betterhelp a try when things got too expensive with the other counselors. Counseling just sucked and was inefective period. I may have had uncarring counselors but they all cared way more about how they were getting paid than giving ANY advice or info at all. Just months and thousands spent on litterally nothing. Betterhelp was just useless. Months of talking with no responses or few and far between with copy/paste stuff that jsut didnt apply to a relationship of this intensity. Just a paid place for me to talk. No real solutions. I did recently start talking with a pastor (I am not religious) and he has been very helpful but I honestly dont feel super comfortable going on and on about the bible IMO. Just me. I respect him for even talking with me but sometimes not super helpful.

[SinisterComplex]

Thanks Cat. I havent seeked out help in years but back a few years ago I had seen multiple counselors, read all the books, was on this forum daily and gave betterhelp a try when things got too expensive with the other counselors. Counseling just sucked and was inefective period. I may have had uncarring counselors but they all cared way more about how they were getting paid than giving ANY advice or info at all. Just months and thousands spent on litterally nothing. Betterhelp was just useless. Months of talking with no responses or few and far between with copy/paste stuff that jsut didnt apply to a relationship of this intensity. Just a paid place for me to talk. No real solutions. I did recently start talking with a pastor (I am not religious) and he has been very helpful but I honestly dont feel super comfortable going on and on about the bible IMO. Just me. I respect him for even talking with me but sometimes not super helpful.

Hey JRH...sorry I kinda had to disappear for a few days as I was swamped with multiple priorities. Still here, still paying attention. By all means I hope you stick it out here. You have some work to do and honestly man what sucks is that you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I do understand and get your struggles. You have been abused yourself. Its obvious the immense mental and emotional torture has beaten you down. To be fair...I'm not excusing any abuse, but every human being has a breaking point. Hell I'm trained for conflict resolution and confrontation and if I am pushed far enough the Incredible Hulk comes out. We are not robots so S happens sometimes. However, abuse and physical violence are never the answer. 

Honestly I give you credit for trying to make things work. And I also give you credit for having the courage to open up like you have and sharing what you have. That takes fortitude good sir. I'll even say it man terms...you nutted up and you are trying to face the music. That earns respect. 

Have you looked into Dialectical Therapy (DBT) for yourself? Even if you can't afford a therapist I recommend looking into it or checking out some videos and ebooks. You have to learn some healthy mental health coping strategies.

The most important thing here is that we have to focus on you. You can change YOU. You cannot change your wife. You will have to lead and she will follow. Can things improve and get better?...yes. However, be under no false pretenses that things will be great and easy. You are still going to have ups and downs which I am sure you know, but you can improve your situation and how you respond and react. I honestly care to help people more like yourself because you know you have a problem yourself and you want to get better and you are willing to be able to vulnerable enough to admit to it and seek out help and counseling. You are someone who is coachable. That is vitally important. As I always say...you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

The important part to understand for DBT...it is not just for people with BPD. I think for you personally maybe you develop some new strategies for yourself. Hey I'll be real...there is no magic cure and I will make no guarantees, and you have to be prepared that your marriage may not last and be ok with that. In essence, I want you focusing on improving yourself to be that "rock" you want to be. Now having said that keep in mind if you can morph yourself into that "rock" it is not just for your wife and other people. No, you turn yourself into a rock to handle the world on your own terms. Make sense? You gotta do it for YOU and you have to make yourself mentally understand that it is for your own good. You cannot have the subliminal agenda that you are being incentivized to do it for someone else or the whole process will fail and you will end up right back where you started.

My friend this is going to take time, but you can do this. Keep posting as much as you need to. You need to have outlet to vent.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[GardenSpring]

Hi jrharvey. I'm sorry your going through this. I'm hopeful that you will find a way through this because you seem motivated to find a way through it. Your experience echoes my own experience in the early post-honeymoon phase. I also felt a lot of shame when I started feeling overwhelmed by my anger. I never considered myself an angry person prior to my marriage, but somehow this side of me manifested with my wife. I'm going to share my own experience in what helped me get through this very tough phase. Please note there are downsides to this approach and I'm still trying to figure my own way forward with my partner. The first thing that helped was I stopped disclosing my most sensitive fears with my wife. I noticed she had a tendency to try to trigger me with my fears during her rages. I think it's an attempt to validate her emotions. By not telling her what triggers me, she wouldn't have the means to trigger me. After years of doing this she is only left with two fears that she knew about long ago and that I have long resolved in my heart: becoming like my father and not being compasionate enough to my son. She even brought them up today as a matter of fact, but they just sound like an old scratchy vinyl record that keeps skipping at this point. The downside is you are adding to the emotional intimacy issues, and it helps to have a support person(s) outside of your marriage that you can open up to about your fears. The second thing that helped me was to disassociate myself and the healthier side of my wife from the BPD behavior. With my wife there is usually a turning point where I know the BPD switch has flipped. It usually is a strongly worded false accusation, fear baiting, shaming or blaming. I just tell myself that the BPD is in control now and I am about to hear a bunch of false and illogical statements. I tell myself I own my own truth, not her. Telling myself this does help. I do fall into the trap sometimes of arguing against the illogical or false statements, but it never seems to help. I have heard validating the underlying emotion can be helpful, but in my experience I just get the response that I'm a liar or that I say the right things but I'm a black hateful soul inside, so to say the least I haven't seen it help. Telling myself I own my own truth works for about 3-5 days for me, but then I get fatigued. Some final thoughts are expect escalations from your BPD partner especially if the aren't getting a rise out of you; also, know your limits and prioritize self care. I hope this helps.