Can we finally admit that we're just control freaks?

[M604V]

Hear me out.  I've been ruminating about my life, my life with BPD, the past, the future, your posts, all while cleaning my house all day.  Maybe I just need to vent, maybe I'm on to something, or maybe I'm just high from the cleaning products.

Please keep in mind that I'm typing this: knowing that divorce is neither quick nor easy, that "easier said than done" applies to a lot of life's troubles, and in the exact same marital situation as many of you lovely people.

Is it possible that we are just control freaks? Other than the young children of BPD parent(s), how many of us have to be in the situations that we are in?  None of us, or really close to none anyway.

So why are we here?  Why does this forum exist? Why are there dozens of books on the topic?  Why can't we just walk away?

I suspect that most of us have been in unhealthy relationships before, although maybe not romantic ones.  But we've had a coworker that we didn't like, an annoying neighbor, that cousin who just drove us crazy.  I assume that we've been able to handle those situations with some degree of tact and maturity while still maintaining dignity, ours and the other person's.

Somewhere along the way we allowed this romantic relationship, the dating, the marriage, the sex, the fights, the breakups, the makeups, the intimacy, the finances, the kids, the whatever, to pervert our self-image, our connection to right/wrong and our commitment to our own health.  And I hypothesize that it has less to do with compassion than we realize, and more to do with trying to control and dictate the outcome.  We are desperately trying to write the end of the book first, the "happily ever after" part, and we need this other person to be a part of the story.  Even if they don't want to be.  (The near enemy of compassion is control.  Read more about near enemies here: https://wefixbrains.com/resources/quiet-enemies-of-connection#:~:text=According%20to%20Buddhist%20psychology%2C%20a,our%20relationships%20as%20a%20connection.)

Think about it: how many times has your s/o said they hate you? Dumped you? Cheated?  Done anything to demonstrate a lack of respect and care for the relationship? If you're like me you've actually lost count.  In essence they've communicated to you that they don't care about this as much as you do, or in the way that you want them to. But you're still here.

I loved my wife through active alcoholism, rehab, sobriety, relapse, sobriety, relapse and finally 3+ years of sobriety.  All along the way she showed me that she wasn't capable or willing to be the partner that I wanted.  Because that's all it is, right?  It's just what I want. Nature dictates that the sun rises in the east, that birds lay eggs, that the leaves fall in autumn.  There is no law that states how or what a spouse is supposed to be.  It was just about what I wanted.

I guess I see it like this: we do all these things for these BPD others.  We love them, we live with them, we marry them, we start a family, share finances; we live our lives with them and open ourselves up to be beaten down time and time again.  And we call it love, we call it support, we call it patience, all kinds of things.  What if that's all bullsh*t?  What if we just called it control?  "I want what I want and it has to come via this other person.  I will ignore all the negative, or I will try and change the negative, so that she will behave in the manner that is going to get me what I want."  Isn't that what we're doing?

[Cat Familiar]

  ya got my number for sure.

Great article that you linked!

Control freak, yes indeed. People pleaser, not so much anymore. Perfectionist, on steroids!

My relationship with my BPD husband made a wild left turn nearly a year ago when he had a disabling stroke.

Physical therapists tasked me with endless exercise protocols, of which he was completely unenthusiastic, doing the absolute minimum. I tried to motivate him the way I’m motivated, by avoiding unpleasant consequences (losing strength and mobility), only to be told how “negative” I am.

Friends in the medical community encouraged me to “go boot camp” on him, and all that did was to piss him off. He’s certainly more capable than he claims. All his therapists agree, yet he just wants to sit around and watch TV rather than use the exercise bike, walk around, do his exercises prescribed by his PT.

Finally I had to just back off, so unlike my nature. It’s a living demonstration of the f* around, find out mantra, which landed him in this situation in the first place—extreme alcohol abuse, inactivity, bad eating habits, high cholesterol, high blood pressure.

It’s a learning curve for me, watching someone inflicting self harm, yet no longer trying to intervene.

But at the same time, it’s also been freeing. Fortunately we have the wherewithal to hire home health care aides (who are the ones who now do his exercises with him on the days he’s willing to do so) and I’m hardly spending much time around him at all.

My version of love is caring so much that I tell folks the hard truths, regardless of whether it could potentially damage their feelings toward me. His version of love is being allowed to do whatever he pleases without feedback.

Frankly, I no longer respect him. I’m no longer trying to save him from consequences.

[M604V]

Thank you so much Cat. I hear you and I appreciate your story.

Your dealings with your husband. I mean, it does come from at least a basic sense of compassion and humanity. Right? It has to. We are still designed to love each other and long for connection.

How long did your progression take, from forcing PT on him to f*ck around and find out?

Have you been able to frame your “indifference” (my word) as love, albeit tough love? I’d argue it is a form of love, no? Except it’s the type of love that allows someone the freedom to write their own book. But yes, I hear you. I suspect so many of us are afflicted with that same disease: we just save people from themselves. But why?

You say you no longer respect him and I hear you. I fear that’s what it might take for me to take the next step in my marriage. I may have to dislike her enough to no longer care about her pain. That may be what it takes.

Thank you for sharing. Stay healthy.

[Cat Familiar]

Thanks M604V, it’s two steps forward, one step back in my process of learning to be indifferent. I quit going to his outpatient PT sessions, as all I seemed to do there was sit and watch, then be told to order yet some new piece of equipment or device that he ultimately refused to use. So now I just drop him off and do my grocery shopping.

I guess it’s love, but it sure doesn’t feel like it to me. But my form of love is perceived as *unkindness* so I guess it’s up to the recipient as to the interpretation.

Recently I did an exercise similar to what you did, recounting my history with him, except I did it as a mental exercise, rather than in writing. OMG! I was astonished to realize how much rancor and inconsiderate behavior I ignored, excused, explained away, as I clung to a very outdated perception of what my relationship was, what I hoped it would be, what I still thought it could be.

Seeing it in the harsh light of day, I was shocked at how much wishful thinking, despite reality, that I had continued to indulge in.

I’m not sure where things will settle in the future, and like you, I have no desire to upset the apple cart at present. I’m putting in new strategies to simplify my life, now that I’m responsible for an invalid. In sum, externals haven’t changed much. He did almost none of the work involved in living on a ranch, but that was always my thing anyway. He did mow the lawn, take care of the pool, and go to the dump every couple of months.

Now I have a gardener who mows the lawn, a pool lady, and trash service, where I just drive the cans to the end of the road where they’re picked up.

Recently I started carving out more time to take care of the animals and the gardens, and to ride my horse. That’s what’s important to me.

[livednlearned]

The inverse of this is being genuinely open to receiving help.

Nothing has hurt me more in my life than accepting help with no strings attached. I was broke from 4 years of custody battle and my L felt I could get the equivalent of sole custody and a friend offered to give me the money. Talk about torture.

It literally brought me to my knees and made me sob. Just cracked me wide open. The vulnerability in feeling gratitude, feeling weak, feeling need, I mean. Kick me in the teeth before doing that to me any day.

Now that I have felt that, I have more compassion for why we don't go there. But going there is probably the thing that broke the spell more than anything else.

All that control, and perfectionism, and people-pleasing for me was rooted in little-kid magical thinking. I'm grateful it got me through the tight spot of childhood but wow, that stuff goes stale quick in adulthood.

Years after I met my current husband, who is kind and supportive and safe, the best friend I could ever wish for, I had what I thought was some kind of breakdown. An old-school psychiatrist I saw reframed it for me as a breakthrough. He believed my feelings of safety were triggering changes. I would be out walking my dog and find myself weeping, without feeling sad.

When you've been through so much relationship pain it can seem nuts to walk into the inferno of your own breaking heart but looking back, it really was a breakthrough. I think it's connected to codependent relationships because you're so focused on the other person's bigger issues you don't have to look at your own.

*Not that I don't still have a few control issues lying around

[SinisterComplex]

Hear me out.  I've been ruminating about my life, my life with BPD, the past, the future, your posts, all while cleaning my house all day.  Maybe I just need to vent, maybe I'm on to something, or maybe I'm just high from the cleaning products.

Please keep in mind that I'm typing this: knowing that divorce is neither quick nor easy, that "easier said than done" applies to a lot of life's troubles, and in the exact same marital situation as many of you lovely people.

Is it possible that we are just control freaks? Other than the young children of BPD parent(s), how many of us have to be in the situations that we are in?  None of us, or really close to none anyway.

So why are we here?  Why does this forum exist? Why are there dozens of books on the topic?  Why can't we just walk away?

I suspect that most of us have been in unhealthy relationships before, although maybe not romantic ones.  But we've had a coworker that we didn't like, an annoying neighbor, that cousin who just drove us crazy.  I assume that we've been able to handle those situations with some degree of tact and maturity while still maintaining dignity, ours and the other person's.

Somewhere along the way we allowed this romantic relationship, the dating, the marriage, the sex, the fights, the breakups, the makeups, the intimacy, the finances, the kids, the whatever, to pervert our self-image, our connection to right/wrong and our commitment to our own health.  And I hypothesize that it has less to do with compassion than we realize, and more to do with trying to control and dictate the outcome.  We are desperately trying to write the end of the book first, the "happily ever after" part, and we need this other person to be a part of the story.  Even if they don't want to be.  (The near enemy of compassion is control.  Read more about near enemies here: https://wefixbrains.com/resources/quiet-enemies-of-connection#:~:text=According%20to%20Buddhist%20psychology%2C%20a,our%20relationships%20as%20a%20connection.)

Think about it: how many times has your s/o said they hate you? Dumped you? Cheated?  Done anything to demonstrate a lack of respect and care for the relationship? If you're like me you've actually lost count.  In essence they've communicated to you that they don't care about this as much as you do, or in the way that you want them to. But you're still here.

I loved my wife through active alcoholism, rehab, sobriety, relapse, sobriety, relapse and finally 3+ years of sobriety.  All along the way she showed me that she wasn't capable or willing to be the partner that I wanted.  Because that's all it is, right?  It's just what I want. Nature dictates that the sun rises in the east, that birds lay eggs, that the leaves fall in autumn.  There is no law that states how or what a spouse is supposed to be.  It was just about what I wanted.

I guess I see it like this: we do all these things for these BPD others.  We love them, we live with them, we marry them, we start a family, share finances; we live our lives with them and open ourselves up to be beaten down time and time again.  And we call it love, we call it support, we call it patience, all kinds of things.  What if that's all bullsh*t?  What if we just called it control?  "I want what I want and it has to come via this other person.  I will ignore all the negative, or I will try and change the negative, so that she will behave in the manner that is going to get me what I want."  Isn't that what we're doing?

I think it's fair question to ask and fair discussion to have. You will probably ruffle some feathers for many. But I would caution against the ideal being an umbrella is all. Not everyone is a control freak, but I am pretty sure there are many who do fit the bill.

Perhaps the most important thing I want to point out is that you to caution yourself with going down the rabbit hole of a correlation between partners with BPD and their Control Freak significant others. Could there be a correlation? Possibly, but I don't think it would be anything definitive. Why do I say that?

BPD is a disorder that is quite sinister and it does not discriminate. Even the most trained, educated people can be had. Additionally, for as much as see you potential control freaks I would argue I see many who would do themselves some huge favors by taking more control over things that are in their control. For every control freak you may potentially see I also just as many wishy washy flip flopping like a pancake afraid to take control types.

Regardless, I commend you on creating this dialogue and having this discussion.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

 

[Augustine]

Apropos, I just happened to be reading an article yesterday on this very topic.

It isn’t uncommon for partners of borderlines to also have a PD. 56% of them in these couplings, in a recent study. 

Borderline preferences fall into two camps: Cluster B, and C.

Cluster C contains Avoidant, Dependent, and Obsessive-Compulsive personality disorders. 

Borderlines are drawn like bees to honey to Narcissistic, and  Antisocial personality disorders as well. 

It’s interesting to note that the Cluster C group are the least likely to leave their partners, are high in conscientiousness, and the least prone to infidelity. 

NB: I’m not implying that anyone here has a personality disorder, by the way.

[M604V]

@sinister: thank you for weighing in. I certainly don’t mean to disparage or offend anyone, or broadbrush every “BPD other”. But I read a lot of the posts and I can’t help but read a lot of earnest (although misguided) attempts to love our BPDs through this nightmare. It’s clear to me—in others and in *myself—that the lines got crossed at some point. That we determined that the only way for us to be happy is for this story to have a happy ending, and that happy ending can only come via this other persons cooperation. I totally get it and I sympathize. It’s just that in moments of clarity I can see just how dangerous this is, and how it leads down the path of trying to control and dictate this other persons thoughts and actions so that WE can get what we want.

Stay healthy, and thanks again.

[Smedley Butler]

i can only speak for myself, but i am definitely not a control freak.  if anything, i have ceded virtually all control to my wife thinking, for many years, that that is what she needed in order to be happy (she is the virtual definition of a control freak and, no, she still isnt happy).  at this point in my marriage i no longer need, expect, or really even want anything from her in the way of support.  she has proven to be incapable of that.  i am in it for my kids, that's it.  if there is anything i am a "control freak" about (i wouldnt call it that), it's maintaining as stable a life as possible for my girls while they're still young.  i do try to "control" the environment that they are raised in, but i think that's just part of parenting. 

interestingly, my wife has accused me of being a control freak and/or a controlling husband many times, which is interesting because outside of my job, virtually everything about our lives has been based around what SHE wants.  i think she needs, wants, and has control of SO MUCH in our family, and is so accustomed to that control just being sort of the default, that when i push back the slightest bit on something, she cant handle it and sees it as "being controlled".

[livednlearned]

M604V, since codependence originally came from people enabling alcoholics, I wonder if the codependence/control thing makes more sense when the BPD person is also an addict or substance abuser.

What you wrote fully applies to me.

I got a lot out of the article too. "Near enemy" is kind of advanced healing territory for me.

[SinisterComplex]

@sinister: thank you for weighing in. I certainly don’t mean to disparage or offend anyone, or broadbrush every “BPD other”. But I read a lot of the posts and I can’t help but read a lot of earnest (although misguided) attempts to love our BPDs through this nightmare. It’s clear to me—in others and in *myself—that the lines got crossed at some point. That we determined that the only way for us to be happy is for this story to have a happy ending, and that happy ending can only come via this other persons cooperation. I totally get it and I sympathize. It’s just that in moments of clarity I can see just how dangerous this is, and how it leads down the path of trying to control and dictate this other persons thoughts and actions so that WE can get what we want.

Stay healthy, and thanks again.

Of course, my friend. I don't think your intent was negative. I was essentially just providing a nudge to help for future reference. On here we always have to think big picture and think of the membership at large. The important thing is to have this dialogue though. We cannot just bury our heads in the sand and go in circles with the yes you're right arguments and no you're wrong arguments. Sometimes the best thing to do is to just create the dialogue and it doesn't matter who is right or wrong, moreover, it doesn't matter if there is a direct right or wrong in general.

Personally, I like to see more bold discussions like this because they will typically produce the most substance and provide more insight from varied personalities throughout the membership here.

Keep the discussion moving forward.

Please be kind to you and take care of yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

 

[ForeverDad]

i can only speak for myself, but i am definitely not a control freak... interestingly, my wife has accused me of being a control freak and/or a controlling husband many times, which is interesting because outside of my job, virtually everything about our lives has been based around what SHE wants.  i think she needs, wants, and has control of SO MUCH in our family, and is so accustomed to that control just being sort of the default, that when i push back the slightest bit on something, she cant handle it and sees it as "being controlled".

When I had first separated, my then-spouse burnt all bridges.  In family court her lawyer asked me, "Do you want her back?"  Somehow I sensed it as a trick question, if I said "Yes" then he would turn to the magistrate and excitedly proclaim, "See? He's a controller. He wants her back under his control."  Instead I replied, "No, not as she is."

Yet, I had not "given up and left her" until there was no other option.  By nature we here were not and are not controllers.  Yes, we don't give up hastily, we do try to help, endlessly, but it's not in a controlling way, no matter how much the other spouse may claim.

I'm fairly sure your question was triggered by your spouse's spiteful words, right?  There's a word for that... Projection.  If that's what your spouse is claiming, then she is projecting her perceptions and actions onto you, in a way, Blame Shifting.

[Cat Familiar]

I’ve got to admire those here who are not control freaks like me. It’s aspirational for me to get to that point of view.

The way my mind works is that I look for what is effective. And when I’ve seen people in my life who have BPD (not just my husband) doing things that are so clearly (in my mind) self sabotaging and self damaging, I’ve tended to speak up, regardless if that would cause a negative response toward me, and typically it did.

So, if that’s controlling, I freely admit to it.

Metaphorically this situation reminds me of a phrase “asleep on the railroad tracks.” Believe it or not, I once had a coworker with a serious drug habit when I worked at a business that was adjacent to railroad tracks. The rest of us would cover for him and try and keep an eye on him. There were a few occasions when we actually found him asleep on the railroad tracks. Fortunately the trains were few and far between.

So, yes, I’ve had a sense of moral superiority that I admit to, thinking I was *saving* someone. But the irony is that my efforts were always resented and as a result, ineffectual.