Help When BPD Ex Comes Back

[Sputmonkey]

So, I have recently been going through a court battle with my ex BPD girlfriend for child custody/visitation. Both of her parents work for the same company and are making over 6 digits a year, so many is not an issue to them when it comes to attorney fees and what not. Unfortunately, on my side of the picture, I have a father who has lent me money for an attorney and the court fees are only escalating. This is causing more stress in my household.

I was handed a petition from one of her friend’s one morning at 6:00am as I was on my way to work almost 5 months ago. Since then, I have been unable to send anything in writing to her due to obvious legal liability reasons. I could not express how I felt/feel about this situation and it drove me mad. Although the serving of the petition hurt because we broke up 5 months before that after having a 2 and a half year relationship and then 2 months later she found another boyfriend, I had to be strong and hire an attorney within the next week.

Anyway, she claimed in her declaration that I failed to pay child support and that I would neglect seeing my child on a verbally agreed schedule. First off, I proved to the court that I had every receipt of payment made to her since the beginning of our sons birth since his birth (my son is 2). Secondly, I have not caused a disruption in the visitation. Although she told the judge in court, me sitting right there, that I refused to see my child, this was false. There were a couple days I said that I wouldn’t be able to show up for visitation days (due to either work related things, or just because I hurt from all of this, which I see is now is no reason to miss a day out of seeing your little man), but nevertheless, it happened only three times.

Aside from that, her parents are very controlling and micromanaging. She still lives with them, so does our son. During the course of our son’s whole life, she has not given me one chance to make a decision for him. I didn’t know at the time I did not need her permission to act on certain things as far as decision making goes for our son. I gave up the fight on decision making, because I felt that if I fought, I’d just being walking on eggshells and eventually be blown up on for being a bad person or being told I had no right to make that, “any”, decision.

We have been ordered to communicate through an online emailing system where the judge can see all of our conversations regarding our son. We were, and still are, not allowed to speak with each other on drop offs/pick ups, unless the topics pertain to the well-being for our son.  So far, everything had been okay. She did not give me a hard time seeing him. She and I have been abiding by those rules ordered by the judge religiously. My work scheduled recently changed, and she has been more than willing to accommodate and work around my schedule in order for me to see our son on the Tuesdays and Thursdays I have him. I originally had him 4:00pm-6:30pm every night (dinner visits), but she was flexible to accommodate my schedule shift to see him from 6:00pm-7:30pm (One hour less, but better than nothing).

Just a week ago I sent an email through the program we’re using in the hopes of trying to open up negotiations. I sent my proposal of visitations to her, and told her as far as the rest that needs to be sorted out, we’ll just have our attorneys figure that out so we could be done with this. She sent back a message saying shes glad I want to see more of S2. She agreed to only a couple more hours on the weekends, but not having Friday overnights too, only Saturday-Sunday every other weekend. She then said that because there were more hours on the Saturdays and Sundays that I would have him, she said she wanted to take out Tuesday and Thursday during the week all together, and replace it with Wednesday on from 6:00pm-7:30pm. I calculated the amount of time this would mean I’d have with our son, and it equals the same amount. The only difference is, is on the weekends I don’t have him this causes me to go 7 days without seeing him until my next visit, instead of going only 5 days maximum. Obviously, I didn’t agree to this schedule, since I do want more time with him and more frequent, small bursts of visits at a time for his age. I simply responded back with a long written email being patient, covering why she wanted this and her reasoning behind it, as well as giving her the facts to her proposed schedule shift. The judge stated that frequent, small bursts of time spent with a child at this age is appropriate, not 50/50 custody, which is understandable and I agree with him. But currently she has him 90% of each month with her, and 10% with me. I’d at least like to work my way up to having 25% of the time he has with me by the end of the year.

Keep in mind though, she filed for sole legal and physical custody with “reasonable visitation.” We all know how the reasonable visitation is handled. Luckily, we’re only under a temporary order, subject to modification at any time once our orders by the judge have been fulfilled.

I don’t want to fight with her anymore, and I know that she is trying to alienate me from my son. It couldn’t be any more obvious. I’m not asking for her back, I could care less about that now. All I want is to see our son more often. I even told her that if this is an issue about you wanting more money because I pay less when he’s with me more, I’ll even sign a court agreement stating that I’ll pay a little more than what the California Child Support Calculator comes up with. That this isn’t about me trying to get out of paying less money.

This has been an emotionally draining process and has hit me all at once. I’m taking it day by day here. The advice I was hoping to receive from anyone here is what to do when she comes back. Meaning, my ex BPD has a tendency to come back to me (or any ex’s in that matter, but most likely me because I have a child with her). What do I do when all is said and one and she does come crying at my doorstep and breaks down? I still love her, and it hurts when I see her in pain. No matter how much wrong she’s done me.

Any ideas on how to actually handle a situation like that?

Much appreciated!

[livednlearned]

Hi Sputmonkey,

It's hard going through custody battles with someone who is high-conflict. Likely, her parents are negative advocates who have the resources to make this even more difficult. Did your lawyer propose a 90/10 schedule? Even though it's temporary, that's an unfair schedule.

Also, in the logic of court, it's very strange that she is accusing you of not spending time with your son, but then she tries to prevent you from having more time with him.

It sounds like you are now trying to negotiate with her through the email system (Our Family Wizard?). I think she understands something your lawyer hasn't explained -- she knows that whatever the status quo is tends to become permanent. Temporary orders tend to become permanent orders. The judge will look at what got worked out in the interim and decide that the child has adjusted, the parents were able to make it work, so let it be. She's attempting to limit the time you have even though you could have your son on the weekends because she has her eye on the long game. 

Why aren't you getting weekends right now?

[ForeverDad]

I don’t want to fight with her anymore

Sure, don't fight with her... .but do stand up for yourself and as a father.  Sadly, part of her psychology is to control you by controlling your time with your child.  I recall my Custody Evaluator's initial report: "Mother cannot share 'her' child but Father can... .Mother should immediately lose her temporary custody... .If Shared Parenting is attempted and fails then Father should get custody."  Guess what?  After two years we did try Shared Parenting with equal time.  Yes, it failed as predicted and so I sought and gained custody.  The settlement advocated by our Guardian ad Litem (GAL) kept the equal time.  It still didn't work and so back to court and I now have majority time during the school year.  It wasn't easy, it was a struggle but one well worth the effort.

While this may not mean much in a contested custody struggle, your court should have something like mine has, a "guideline schedule".  Clearly, alternate weekends is Standard, it has been time-proven to give both parents weekends "off" from parenting.  The problem there, though, is how long that weekend is when you have the child.  Friday early evening to Monday morning is reasonable.  (Mine was a full 72 hours, Fri 6pm to Mon 6pm.)  When he gets to be school age then Friday after school to Monday before school is a practical way to avoid in-person exchanges since school then becomes the exchange location much of the time.

So, what about between the alternate weekends?  In my area that guideline schedule said children under 3 would have 2 or 3 short visits, that frequent visits were good for the toddlers; 3 and older would be an overnight in between, generally a Thursday overnight or maybe evening.

Frankly, she is expecting her dictated terms, her opposition, her refusal to relent, to win the day.  Guess what?  You'll have to be the Immovable Wall to counter her Irresistible Force.  You have a right to state your reasonable terms just as much as she has a right to state her unreasonable terms.  If you can't settle, then it is up to the judge to rule.  As LnL warned, the "status quo" is dangerous, if it is 'working' and neither parent objects much then a judge will likely think, "I'm not going to change what has been working".

So what is reasonable?  My county calls the parents the Primary Parent and the Non-Primary Parent.  When I first separated, my court assigned me alternate weekends and an evening in between - 72 + 3 hours or 22.3% time.  I would stand firm before the judge that anything less than 75/25 or 80/20 at a bare minimum is both unreasonable and unacceptable.  Yes, you can't stop a judge from making an unfavorable ruling but an unfavorable ruling, in my view, is far better than making a deal or settlement that is unfavorable.

I think until your child is at least 3 years old you should get at least two visits between the alternate weekends.  And your weekends should be as long as possible, such as Friday pm to Monday am.  Yes, she'll freak about that but likely a judge may just shrug and tell her to live with it.  Or maybe the judge will cut it back a bit to Sunday evening.  You'll still get decent time but ex will feel she 'won' since you didn't get everything you sought.

Remember, this is a game of sorts, posturing.  Negotiation is asking for more but able to live with less.

Final thought?  A minimum of 22-25% is entirely reasonable.  A judge will not criticize you for being - or trying to be - an involved father.

Something I've written before was having this concept when before a judge, state what you feel is best for your child but be willing to work with the judge's ruling. "Your honor, I want to be a very involved father.  I feel I ought to have equal time with our child.  However, I do have to work and I can't get my ex to work with me on a schedule to accomplish that and still work.  So for now I may have to live with less time but I still want to be very involved as father and as much time as is reasonably practical.  I feel our son needs long alternate weekends with me, from Friday pm (or from end of school) to Monday am (or to start of school) and also two or three overnights in between."

Also, get every holiday you can get.  And vacation time too.  For example, my court allows 3 weeks of vacation time per year in 1 or 2 week segments.  Don't let her rob you of that time.

My point?  Now is not the time to be timid.  Nor is it the time to wait for the court to step up and state your case for you, it won't.

[Sputmonkey]

livednlearned

          My attorney didn't suggest the 90/10 split, it just happened based on the judges ruling. Because of her accusations of me not spending time with him, not wanting to spend time with him and not giving child support, the judge ordered this temporary order with a few rules for me to follow: I had to get a copy of what he is allergic to (I was under the impression that he wasn't allergic to anything, but his mother said straight to the judges face that he is allergic to gluten, dairy and wheat). I completed that task, and it turned out he wasn't allergic to anything. In fact, she took him to a specialist and he was diagnosed as "sensitive" to these. He was not medically diagnosed as being allergic to them. We were ordered to take toddler parenting classes, take a course called young parents, bright futures. She ended up not going to the young parents, bright futures class the day the judge ordered it to be on, whereas I did. He gave us until the end of march to complete the toddler classes. I've already completed them, whereas she has not. I know this because she sent me a message through Our Family Wizard (you are correct) asking if I wanted to take the course with her. Was she trying to play nice? I told her that I already completed it and gave her an online link to check it out (to be friendly and nice).

I have paid the ordered amount of child support on a consistent basis, as well as only missing one visit with him because I had the flu.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean when you say she has her mind on the long game? Could you explain that bit to me?

Lastly, I am getting every other weekend with him from Saturday at 10:00am - Sunday at 4:00pm.


ForeverDad

I work Monday-Friday from 8:30-5:30pm, so that is why I get the time on the weekdays the way it currently is.

Since our child did turn 2 years old this previous December, I do have another question that I'd like your opinion on. This is currently going through the LA County Court System, so I'm not sure what rules differ from what county to another one, but would you say it is appropriate to ask for Tuesday and Thursday OVERNIGHT visits, and have him be dropped off by me at daycare before I begin work? His daycare is right up the street from my work. Although, I do live approximately 16 miles away from his daycare.

Do you have any thoughts on that?


Thanks for all of your help!

[ForeverDad]

I have the same schedule as you.  Ex made allegations in front of the magistrate but since she had made allegations in her filing, the court had Children's Protective Services (CPS) check me out.  The investigator appeared in court, stood up and said, "No concerns."  Unfortunately, my ex was never investigated since I hadn't filed allegations against her.  I learned the hard way that if I was subjected to scrutiny I had to ask that we BOTH be scrutinized equally.  May not succeed, but I learned I had to try.

For example, at one of those hearings were were told to get Psych Evals.  My lawyer made sure we both had the same order.   I went, had a 2 hour assessment by a graduate student from the local university.  Conclusion?  I was suffering from 'anxiety'.  Yeah, imploding family and being targeted with allegations?  And only that assessment?  Whew!  Oh, and my stbEx?  We were each supposed to share them with the court and opposing lawyers.  I have no idea if she even went for the evaluation, court didn't care and lawyers didn't care. :'(

So, I have the same work schedule as you.  And what did I walk out with?  Over 22% time... .I got Friday 6 pm to Monday 6 pm and a 3 hour Thursday evening in between, 75 hours every 2 weeks.  I think you getting Sat 10 to Sun 4 (30 hours) is way too conservative.  That's barely half a weekend, do they expect you to prefer to go out partying Friday and Sunday nights?  From what you described, you are perfectly and conveniently capable of picking him up from nearby daycare Friday 6 pm and returning him to daycare early Monday morning.  Both exchanges would be convenient for you and you'd get 3 overnights rather than the one, 62 hours rather than 28 hours.

I believe one problem is that you and your lawyer didn't counter her claims that you didn't want to parent much and that you weren't giving her unofficial child support.  (Beware, courts often view money given outside of court orders as "gifts" and not "support".)  Try to get as much documented as possible and submitted to the court.  For example, next time in court, just throwing this out for your consideration and encouragement to be proactive and not timidly accepting of whatever... .

Your Honor, our first hearing was so brief that I wasn't able to submit all my documents or thoroughly respond to my ex's claims before the order was issued.  A couple points need to be addressed now, getting them straightened out sooner is better.

(1) Let it be clear that I am a responsible father.  I have been providing support for my son all along, even without a court order.  Here is the list of many of the payments and the records I was able to gather supporting it.

(2) Let it be clear that I want to be an involved father.  Among the reason why I haven't been getting much parenting time in the past is that various things happened.  I had a change in job schedules and her way to be helpful was to take the time I was unable to parent but she didn't reciprocate by exchanging with other times when I was available.  So in effect she took but never gave back.  Also, I knew that if I pressed hard for more time then the conflict would have risen and I don't want our son to be exposed to conflict.  Therefore, since I don't know precisely what is seen as a good schedule for an involved father in this area, I propose that my alternate weekends begin and end from the daycare he currently attends which is convenient for me.  I wish to pick him up before the daycare closes Friday about 6pm and will return him there Monday morning after they open about 8 am.  A side benefit is that in this way too we parents would need fewer in-person exchanges and so any risk of potential confrontations would be reduced, something I believe the court agrees would be good.  Second, I would like some mid-week overnights with him.  My understanding is that frequent visits with both parents is good for young children.  After some thought, I have concluded that the Thursday after my weekend and the following Tuesday would be good overnights spaced out fairly evenly between my weekends.  If his mother would like me to have some additional evenings too, I would be agreeable but that can be worked out later.  I wanted to request more in-between visits but I think I can work with this reduced proposal rather well.

Frankly I feel our son needs me even more than just that limited time*, but I can work with that until we both get evaluated for the custody and parenting issues and hear what the experts recommend.  If you need additional information, just ask and I will do my best to provide it.  Thank you.

* Two reasons to ask for more than you hope to get:  First, it lets the judge know you want to be an involved father.  Too many father accept being sidelined into obscurity.  Let him know you do want to be a really involved father and not just doing token visits.  Second, that way if you don't get it all, you can still be satisfied with a reasonable outcome but ex will feel she 'won'.  Judges like to rule for the middle ground, where neither parent feels like a winner or loser.  So ask for extra and when you get less it may still be reasonable.

[livednlearned]

The long game  = understanding how court works and using that knowledge to get more custodial time. The insider stuff that no one tells you except a savvy lawyer. Or people here who have been through this.

It's called a temporary order, but it's still an official court document. There are legal rules that dictate what you see in court, it's not regular logic. For example, with many orders, you cannot argue anything that occurred prior to that order being signed. Even if it's relevant. So when your temporary order becomes permanent, often the judge just keeps the status quo. You were able to get some conditions from the judge -- that's good. And you did everything you were asked to do. That's also good. If you didn't, the order would have no hope of changing. Even when conditions are met, the opposing lawyer will often insist that the child has adjusted to the schedule, and blah blah blah. Next thing you know, temporary is now permanent, and it all happened in 10 minutes at $300/hour without understanding what just happened.

If you go back to court and try to roll back the permanent order, you won't be able to use anything relevant that happened before. Order are treated like big heavy steel doors that shut every time they are entered in court. It's near impossible to open them up again. You have to show substantive changes just to be able to modify custody. "Substantive" is open to some interpretation, but basically it comes down to the judge's decision. And he or she will look at the past orders and use that to make a decision.

Like FD said, ask for more than what you think is reasonable. That way you can negotiate down to what you think is fair. During my mediation (for the temporary order), I insisted on having sole legal custody in addition to primary physical custody. I knew my ex would block everything I did if we had shared legal. The mediator and my L put intense pressure on me to accept joint, but somewhere in my codependent FOG I stood my ground. What happened is that the temporary order went forward -- everything we agreed to was included in the order, but one item said, "parties cannot agree to joint legal custody so this matter will go before a judge."

And then it just sat there for a year. In that time, N/BPDx blocked every possible thing you can imagine and then some. When I went back to court, my L was able to stand up and say, "My client has known from the temporary order that N/BPDx cannot cooperate. Here is exhibit A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, J, and oh, we also have a parenting coordinator who says N/BPDx cannot cooperate. We want sole legal custody."

And I got it.

That's the long game. Don't strategize on what is happening in court right now, or whatever order is coming up. Focus on the strategy of how this is going to play out over a period of months and probably years. Don't agree to anything you think is not good for your child. If the right thing is for you to be in her life as much as possible, ask for that.

Once those orders get signed and entered, it's hard to revisit this stuff. Your ex is behaving like someone who understands this -- she might have a very good lawyer. And her parents probably hired someone good. That will help her, so spend time here reading everything you can. There are reliable patterns to how these custody cases go and you can do a lot if you are one step ahead of the other side. Being a step ahead means getting what is fair. If you're behind, it can be hard to recover.

[Sputmonkey]

livednlearned

We have another mediation that I filed with the court. We should be going at the end of this month. I did not inform her I was filing, but I did try negotiating with her on OFW (as stated) to possibly make things go smoother in the mediation. I asked her why she felt a certain way about certain things throughout our order to communicate through OFW, and she has a lot of self contradictions throughout the course of communication since court. I already know the mediation isn't going to be a success.

That being said, do you have any personal advice as far as what to do/say the next time we see the judge to fight through her unreasonable schedule suggestions so I can have a better shot at getting more time with our son? And would it make a difference in the judges eyes when I tried being reasonable and having open-ended discussions through OFW, whereas she shoots down all of my ideas instantaneously, as well as telling me "how it's going to be"? Does the judge even look at that stuff?

ForeverDad

Your story and background is very helpful to my situation, and I do appreciate it.

Would it make a difference in the judges eyes by me having completed all his orders in time? Is that something that he takes into consideration when deciding to give more time?

[ForeverDad]

Would it make a difference in the judges eyes by me having completed all his orders in time? Is that something that he takes into consideration when deciding to give more time?

Maybe, hard to say.  The magistrate I had did little more than be a bump on a log and make minimal 'standard' comments and rulings.  He was certainly not a 'problem solver'.  My lawyer said he was just waiting out the time until he could retire.  However, yours might be different.

So what we all too often face is this, at least at first:

The one behaving poorly seldom gets consequences and the one behaving well seldom gets credit.

What you have to do is be proactive and be the parent with solutions not obstructions.  As I said before, no one is going to advocate for you like you can yourself!  Even your lawyer may be too passive for this case, taking the easy path, letting things stay the way they are, filing forms and holding your hand.  You need more than that.  Every time your ex says No! or Impossible! you need to present your case how it really can work.  Don't do any mental gymnastics, court likes things simple and as close to standard as possible.  That's my thinking, if you can (1) keep returning to the point that 22-25% parenting time is STANDARD (in some states the courts are even quick to advocate 50/50) and (2) there are of course "No Concerns" with you then try to get the judge to agree to do something standard.  Frankly, 10% time is definitely less than standard, especially now that he's no longer a baby and is just about into the preschool years.

Yes, your lawyer probably knows the court better than you do but you know your case best.  I recall when I was assigned alternate weekends after I filed for divorce my lawyer turning to me and telling me, "Shh, keep quiet (he didn't want me to say the wrong thing) and we'll fix it later."  Well, my divorce process wasn't the 7-9 months he had estimated, it was 23.5 months and the court never changed the temp order.  After nearly two years going though every stage slowly, it was on Trial Morning that my ex couldn't delay any more (she had a favorable order and so of course she delayed) and so I was greeted with the news that at least she would settle.  So I walked out with equal time in the final decree.  But my lawyer wasn't apologetic that his "we'll fix it later" didn't happen until some two years later.  That's why we say, get the best order you can reasonably get from the start.  That 10% is below normal and you don't want that if you can get out of it.  Yes, you can't do much if the judge orders something - that's out of your hands - but you don't have to settle/agree to too little.

Remember how I said we settled on Trial Morning?  Well, I almost forced us to proceed with the Trial.  She was told by her lawyer she would probably lose (I learned much later) and so we agreed to 50/50.  But I felt I ought to also be Residential Parent.  I said I'll be RP or we go in and start the trial.  Both lawyers insisted being RP meant nothing but inside I felt that I would rather risk the judge's decision rather than settle for her taking the subtle lead with school.  So I set that boundary and wasn't mortified to do so.  She relented.  So I walked out with not only equal time but also Residential Parent.  Good thing too.  I was going to change to my school for the next school year but within weeks she was causing scenes are school over the school pickups and school dumped her like a hot potato, giving me one day to get him registered for the last 5 weeks of kindergarten in my school.  If she would have stayed RP, they would have been stuck with her and her antics.

I'm not saying you should do that.  It worked for me but you may see other priorities and other opportunities.  That's okay.  You will find excellent peer support here.  Collectively, we have lots of wisdom and practical solutions, we've "Been there, Done that".  Pick our brains.  And then pay it forward to newer members as your circumstances permit.

[livednlearned]

I agree with FD -- if you come in as the reasonable person with solutions, and have documentation to substantiate what you are saying, it will go a long way. You also need to have a strategy for how you will negotiate. Don't tip your cards if you can. At least, don't tip them what your bottom line is.

This is a really good article to read about how to approach your case. You want an assertive approach, and you want to be a good client so your lawyer can represent what you want, not what the lawyer wants.

Your ex may not be a high-conflict personality, but she is probably scared, and that might make her parents scared, so they could be driving the pace right now, it's hard to know. One or both of them may be BPD, or your ex may have told them something false about you so that she is the victim.

If your ex does block access, make sure you document that. And if she makes false allegations that are not true, address that, especially in front of the judge. "The allegation that I did not make time for my son is false. I saw him every time I was scheduled to see him except day/date when I had the flu. It concerns me that when I make a request for additional time, I am told that I cannot see him. On day/date I was denied, and on day/date I was denied. I have met all of the obligations put forth by the judge, and completed everything ahead of schedule. I respect that ex did not have time to meet these obligations, however I ask that double standards are not applied to me when it concerns focusing on what is best for our child."

Or whatever.

[ForeverDad]

Another point is that she will claim she is The Mother and she can't bear to be apart for 'her baby' and should get nearly all the parenting time.  Since you mentioned she's using daycare, I would suspect that means she works too or lets daycare do some of her parenting?  Well then see if there's an angle you can use to explain that she's already allowing daycare lots of the time with the child (which is good, children of a disordered parent need friends and socialization since they're at risk of being isolated) so you can have time too.

My custody evaluator made an interesting statement in his initial CE report summary.  He wrote, "Mother cannot share 'her' child but Father can."  He was an excellent and perceptive evaluator, he could perceive what the core issue was.