Validate This How was my response?

[daz_bpd]

She had another outburst last night, and told me she is going to her ex-bf's apartment. i have been sleeping while the following messages came through. i wasn't ready yet to face the drama when I woke up this morning and ignored my phone when it was ringing.

Her: I broke down last night. It was really bad. I am sorry.

Her: How  I feel dont matter to you. You only wanted to call me to stop me from going to [her ex]. But i was messaging you about it and you ignored me.

Her: I passed out late and Im still feeling bleak. Not that you care.

Her: Baby please forgive me. Im just overly exhausted.

Her: I didnt go anywhere last night.

Her: I fainted at the office this afternoon. And where are you when I need you. Being a b___.

Her: I wish you never act like a girl. That you were always man enough. That i dont have to run to another coz I cant count on you. I wish.

Her: I CANT TAKE THIS ANYMORE

The constant theme is that she feels I am ignoring her while she cut off communications and blocked me last night. I was the one calling her and she wasn't responding when i was concerned about her health - she was mentioning severe anxiety, stress and fainting due to excessive heat in the room. Of course, those are also her main 'weapons' when trying to elicit a response from me 1. That I don't care or love her 2. That i am not fulfilling my role as man 3. That she is stressed, sick, exhausted, fainting ... .4. She threatens to go to someone else

Here are my (hopefully) more validating responses uses S.E.T. How did I do?

ME:The excessive heat, and financial troubles will make anyone in your position feel stressed and out and uncomfortable. I know how upsetting it is when a loved one isn't available to talk and communicate when I need it most.

ME: I was very concerned about you, but was unable to call you after you removed me from contacts, AND the comments you sent me suggested that you didn't want me in your life anymore.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[babyducks]

Hey Daz

I like this 

I think this is a great step forward.   

Nice job.

How did she respond?

'ducks

[daz_bpd]

Her: ok

Which is a massive improvement, since responses in the past have lead to hours of arguments and bickering.

Unfortunately, I clumsily asked her if she went to work today (when she mentioned having nearly fainted at the office), and then quickly changed it to -'how you feeling?' but she saw it and quickly got angry

Me: Are you wanting to talk with me now?

[12:41:54 PM | Edited 12:42:21 PM] Me: How are feeling?

Her: ?

Her: What the heck YOU DONT EVEN READ MY MESSAGES

Her: YOU CANT HIDE THE FACT THAT YOU DONT GIVE A DAMN. ITS SHOWS SO NATURALLY

Her: STOP PRETENDING BY ASKING ME HOW I FEEL NOW

I do tend to 'shut off' when I see her messages littered with rude comments and demeaning insults, but I did slip up

[formflier]

ME: I was very concerned about you, but was unable to call you after you removed me from contacts, AND the comments you sent me suggested that you didn't want me in your life anymore.

Do you see JADE in here?

FF

[formflier]

I do tend to 'shut off' when I see her messages littered with rude comments and demeaning insults, but I did slip up

And... .IMO... .you should switch off... .

She clearly wants to drag you into a debate about your love for her... .that you are not a man... .etc etc.

Those debates will lead to JADE... .or invalidating her... .   Hard to see a good way out of those... .other than ignore.

When she is reasonable... .validate her bigtime... .be nice... .reinforce positive behavior.  When she goes negative... .don't feed that cycle.

Thoughts?

FF

[daz_bpd]

@formflier, I agree. Which article has the JADE material? I can't find it.

Ignoring her when she calls me or messages me often has her getting even more angry.

Needing to ALWAYS be available for her, is her way of trying to control me.

[MaroonLiquid]

Ignoring her when she calls me or messages me often has her getting even more angry.

Needing to ALWAYS be available for her, is her way of trying to control me.

Of course it gets her more angry.  She needs an outlet and it creates an extinction burst.  Extinction bursts work like a slot machine.  My wife used to ignore me (Silent treatment) when I didn't give her what she wanted.  It would work because she knew I hated it.  Eventually I would give in to stop the ST.  She has cut down the ST a ton because it doesn't work anymore.  I just go on about my business.  Berating texts and belittling you will eventually stop when she realizes that it doesn't work when you stop answering her.  Make sense? 

[Jessica84]

I've had this happen to me before where my bf had an entire conversation with himself via text or email. Got mad at me, then got over it all by himself before I even had a chance to read it! Then once I responded, he got mad all over again. The only way out is a quick apology for not responding sooner and validation on top of validation. You were on the right track with validating her feelings about the stress. Maybe add how awful it is to feel unloved or ignored. One thing that also helped me is choosing not to look at it as him controlling me, but rather him trying to regain control over his own emotions. Helps me take it less personal.

[babyducks]

ME: I was very concerned about you, but was unable to call you after you removed me from contacts, AND the comments you sent me suggested that you didn't want me in your life anymore.

Do you see JADE in here?

FF

FF raises a good point.   

My quick and easy rules of thumb are:

1) "I" statements are better than "You" statements.  Always try to speak in the first person.

2) Avoid the use of the word "but" as it tends to negate whatever comes before it.

I would have tried to phrase these thoughts more simply.   Remember when your pwBPD is in a state of heighten emotional arousal only part of sentence may be understood at a time.   When I get upset I know I find it difficult to listen.

I was very concerned about you. (pause or texting break)

I called and I couldn't get through.  (which is still a little jade-ing)

While I understand your point about her comments suggesting she doesn't want you in her life, I would have framed it a little different.   I think its good you are starting to draw some boundaries around her threats.   

When I read texts like last nights I feel like you don't want me in your life.

What do you think?   How would you tweak that to make it better?

[babyducks]

When she is reasonable... .validate her bigtime... .be nice... .reinforce positive behavior.  When she goes negative... .don't feed that cycle.

Thoughts?

FF

   

Don't add any drama to the endless debate of do you care for her, do you love her, are you doing enough for her.   You will never win that argument.   The only way to win is not to play.   When she goes big time negative practice a stock phrase, a boundary.   Rehearse it and then use it.

Something like [her name] I can not allow myself to be talked to like that.   I'm ending this conversation now.   I will talk to you again tomorrow.   

Or whatever works for you.  Put it in your own words.   

[formflier]

@formflier, I agree. Which article has the JADE material? I can't find it.

Ignoring her when she calls me or messages me often has her getting even more angry.

Needing to ALWAYS be available for her, is her way of trying to control me.

Daz,

Hope things are going well for you.  I'm following up on some older posts.  Looking forward to an update... .when you have time.


https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=118892.0

The lesson above seems to be the main "JADE" lesson.

Discussion point:  There are some that would suggest that you should NEVER JADE.  I'm not in that crowd.  I believe that it is important for "nons" to be able to state their truth... .in an appropriate and emotionally healthy way (yep... .that can be a big topic)

My thought is that if you feel that you need to explain something... .do it clearly ONCE... .and then move along.  They may claim they don't understand... .try to ask follow up questions... .etc etc.

Be very mindful of their emotional state... .if they are baseline... .then continuing a discussion may be OK.  If they seem triggered... .move along.

Final note:  If they are already triggered... .and aren't listening... .saying you truth ... .even once... .is not likely to be of help.



https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=66672.0k

The one above talks some about why a person might try to "explain"... .and the dysfunctional dance.

FF

[daz_bpd]

The last few days I withdrew from her, and focused on myself. I was lying to her and made up stories so that she wouldn't bother me.

I don't know which is worse, that I did this OR that I felt much better and was actually having a life again, I was able to get a lot of work done and do some fulfilling activities and generally feel happier and healthier. 

[babyducks]

Hi Daz,

Seems to me that it's perfectly understandable that you would need a few days to recharge your batteries, you've been through a lot. 

I'm pretty sure there is a spot on this site about radical acceptance that says something about accepting things for what they are, and try not put judgments on actions and feelings. 

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0

I guess I am wondering, that now that you have had a few days to let the emotional temperature return to normal for you, what would you like to focus on next?

'ducks

[formflier]

 

daz,

How are things going?

FF

[daz_bpd]

I want to start dating again and meeting other people. I want to rebuild my wealth again and focus on my work. I want to maintain my schedule, and activities related to health, and happiness.

[formflier]

I want to start dating again and meeting other people. I want to rebuild my wealth again and focus on my work. I want to maintain my schedule, and activities related to health, and happiness.

Great goals!  What is your first step in that direction?

FF

[daz_bpd]

Ive been speaking to her again and don't want to let her go. Im upsetting my parents who found out I have been helping her financially and ruining my own life in the process. Both my parents just want to see me happy and doing well.

I'm either hurting her for leaving her and 'abandoning her' or I am hurting my parents for not being a better son, and taking care of myself by setting proper boundaries with toxic woman.

Both my parents are very angry and upset I hadn't cut her off much sooner (like a year ago).   

[formflier]

I'm either hurting her for leaving her and 'abandoning her' or I am hurting my parents for not being a better son, and taking care of myself by setting proper boundaries with toxic woman.

Good to hear from you again. 

I'm very curious how you are the one that is taking ownership for hurting others... .when your actions (I don't believe) were intended to hurt others.

Boundaries are the answer:  Especially when you are dealing with people with BPD traits... .but very much so for life in general.

You are not responsible for her feelings... .or your parents... .unless you do something directly to them... .that is generally thought to be hurtful (IMO). 

So... .(an example to explain) ... .you call up your parents... .and call them names... .say horrible things  and you parents are hurt by this... .it is appropriate for you to "own" the hurt... .and make amends... .ask forgiveness... .etc etc.  Extreme example used to clarify a principle.

So... .you parents have a choice to make about this information they found out... .if they want to be hurt an disappointed... .that is their choice.  But you are not responsible for their hurt... .you did not do this to them.

I think the same is true for your girlfriend.  She is (or should be) responsible for herself and should be thankful for whatever generosity you choose to provide. 

Removing your generosity is not "doing something" to her... .or hurting her.  Now... .she may "feel hurt" that you don't give her money anymore... .but that is her error... . 

If she feels bad that she lacks resources... .those are her feelings for her to sort out... .not to "toss" them at you.

Thoughts?  Are you following the logic/thinking that I was using here?

FF

[daz_bpd]

Yes I am following and you are right, logically that makes complete sense, its up to me to internalise that so I don't feel guilty or responsible for how others feel, despite my best intentions.

I have let all this go on for far too long though. Ive had the knowledge necessary to make better decisions, but ive let my emotional attachment to her override common sense regarding financial matters, and with general life decision-making.

I really have to make some decisions for myself now that will likely upset both her and my parents. In the long run it is what is necessary in order to take complete responsibility for things and regain complete independence. Ive allowed my girlfriend and my parents to sway my judgement, that, up until a few years ago actually did me very well - i had enjoyed success early on, being on my own. I had my wealth, health and lifestyle in order but was missing a great relationship, and by pursuing that I allowed the other parts of my life to crumble.

[formflier]

Y

I really have to make some decisions for myself now that will likely upset both her and my parents. 

Big focus on your thinking in this area... .it is still about others... .not about you.

"I really have to make some decisions for myself now... ."


Is a much better way to say it.

Read your sentence... .read mine.  How are they different?

FF