Do BPDs remember their outbursts the day after?

[JazzSinger]

Hi,

I’m a newbie here. 

My husband is a BPD.  After outbursts that include put downs, name calling, and horrible,  false statements about me, the next day, he often claims he has no recollection of it.  If I repeat the things he said to me, he denies it, and becomes furious.  He usually ends up saying I’m trying to start an argument with him.  If he does remember the outburst, he somehow makes it my fault. 

During his outbursts, his eyes often appear to be glazed over, which is why I sometimes believe he’s in a daze, and doesn’t remember what he said.

Do BPDs typically have no memory of the things they’ve said during an outburst? 

Is he gaslighting me?

I’m confused. 

Thanks in advance for your comments. 

[Notwendy]

My best response is, yes and no.

These outbursts serve a purpose for them. PwBPD can not handle their own uncomfortable feelings. They may be able to hold off for a while, but like a little kid who eats too many cookies- gets a stomach ache, throws up- but then feels better and runs off to play ( and eat more cookies later), a pwBPD needs to throw up the feelings. Afterwards, they feel better, and of course if they feel better- you should too- right? Feelings all gone.

Except that you are the one that they emotionally puked on, and that doesn't feel good.

I have a mother with BPD. For reference, she is elderly - I am middle age- and so this is a familiar pattern. I think there's a spectrum of severity and she is severely BPD. Sometimes I think she is so dissociated that she doesn't remember well, if at all. Other times she does but she rationalizes it. I think pwBPD see things from victim perspective, so if your feelings are hurt, that doesn't fit into how they see things. She also has a way of rewriting history- to what fits her own thinking.

I compare this to a dry erase board. If she decides it happened differently or it didn't happen- well it's how she thinks it. Bringing up past outbursts doesn't seem to help.

But actions do, and then, when things are calmer, there is a chance to address what was said or done but for me, that has taken acting on them. For instance if she's rude to me during a visit, I leave the room.

[Pook075]

I would also answer both yes and no.  I have a soon to be ex-wife and an adult daughter with BPD, and for the most part they do remember their outbursts.  My wife almost always apologized as well, which is not very common for BPD from what I've heard. 

But at the same time, when either one of them are especially toxic, then they do not apologize and I have a feeling that shame has a big part of that.  In other words, they remember but they know they were wrong and they don't want to revisit it since it's uncomfortable.

One last scenario is when they're highly unstable, their viewpoint of the situation is way off so their reactions feel way off to us.  For example, I mentioned that we needed to start eating healthier last year before the breakup- but my wife's brain translated that to "You're fat and not attractive anymore."  So I got the silent treatment which I didn't recognize at first, because I literally said, "We really need to start trying to eat healthier meals."  Why would I expect blowback from that? 

But that night, my wife ended the silent treatment and screamed at me over another trivial thing, which left me perplexed.  I thought the blow up was over talking while we were watching TV together, while my wife was picking out "horrible" things I did to her all day long.  So her viewpoint was that her bad behavior was justified because of my continual actions, while I just wanted to eat a healthy meal and talk about our favorite TV show.

The answer is "yes and no" because they don't see these interactions like we do, they see something completely different and react accordingly.  So if you ask, "Why'd you scream at me last night over the dishes," they might be thinking, "I screamed because of the thing you did in the car, the thing at the restaurant, the thing in Walmart, the thing in the living room, and the thing with the dishes.  I screamed because you've been mean and disrespected me all day long and I don't deserve that."

That's why there's no easy answer when someone asks, "Why does someone with BPD do_____________."  The answer is because their thinking is disordered because of a mental illness.

[zachira]

I would answer both yes and no as well. I think sometimes they remember dumping their dysregulated emotions onto others which helps the person with BPD to feel better temporarily. Other times, the person with BPD is completely dissociated from their inner turmoil. People with BPD have split personalities which is why they can be so charming to people outside their inner circle and so abusive towards close family members. Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) which is a diagnosable mental health condition of having more than one personality, sometimes multiple personalities, is more common than most people realize. The person with BPD may not have diagnosable (DID) yet the split between all good and all bad with no capacity for seeing a more balanced picture of people and situations is definitely a main characteristic of people with BPD.

[livethequestions]

Hi JazzSinger,

Based on my own experience, I would agree with what other members have said.

My spouse (who has undiagnosed BPD) recently told me that when they get in that dysregulated state, it's like it's happening to somebody else, and so there is that sense of distance (for them) between who they feel they are usually, and who they become during an episode. Sometimes, they seem to remember roughly what topics were brought up, but no details.

They have said a lot of nasty, horrible things to me during episodes, that I know now not to bring up again, because they would just deny having said them. I do think there is an element of blacking out, and blocking out the worst of it for them. For example, they insist that they have never ever called me names, but they have, many times. The less nasty things, they might remember and bring up and even apologize for.

I am sorry your husband has hurt you like this. I am a newbie here, too. Sending you healing thoughts

[livednlearned]

Do BPDs typically have no memory of the things they’ve said during an outburst?

In Shari Manning's book Loving Someone with BPD she describes the physiology of memory during times of intense emotional flooding, and if true, there does seem to be a kind of amnesiac affect. A woman with BPD wrote that she often felt like she was returning to a house fire with everything burnt to the ground, only to discover from bystanders that she was the one who set it on fire.

That can also trigger tremendous shame and many pwBPD are masters at behaviors designed to avoid feeling shame. Accountability is often the first to go.

It's probably more important to protect yourself when you see your husband lift the match to light it.

It seemed to me for my uBPDx that it was cathartic to discharge this fury. Once he felt better, I was supposed to feel better too 

[ForeverDad]

There's a word I can't recall right now, cognitive distortion is all I can come up with right now.  Maybe dissociation or a dissociative state?  Basically, the persons with BPD (pwBPD) work themselves into such an emotional state that they almost become another person.

Do they really remember or not?  I don't have that answer but I will comment that it's astounding on the one hand they seem to have a very good memory for their perceptions of old hurts yet on the other hand easily forget and deny past apologies.  Selective memory?  Hard to confirm whether it is consciously or unconsciously done.  It just is.  That's what we need to deal with.

When I was still married to my now-ex, it became worse and worse over time, especially after we had a child.  In the morning I would leave a spouse who was reasonably normal and I didn't know whether I'd return to a ranting and raging spouse.  Or in the morning I would leave a spouse who was ranting and raging and I didn't know whether I'd return to a reasonably normal spouse.  Predictably unpredictable.

I recall one time I came home in the evening and was relieved that she was calm.  Then in the middle of her describing her day's events she suddenly transformed, her face contorted, she became a different persona and it was all because something she was telling me had triggered her.

[cranmango]

In Shari Manning's book Loving Someone with BPD she describes the physiology of memory during times of intense emotional flooding, and if true, there does seem to be a kind of amnesiac affect. A woman with BPD wrote that she often felt like she was returning to a house fire with everything burnt to the ground, only to discover from bystanders that she was the one who set it on fire.

That can also trigger tremendous shame and many pwBPD are masters at behaviors designed to avoid feeling shame. Accountability is often the first to go.

This resonates with me very much. I spent 20+ years enduring regular outbursts from my father, who has strong NPD/BPD traits. Name calling, insults, blame, yelling. Awful stuff.

He’s getting older now, and the rage episodes have been less of an issue. He has a vague sense that he has lost his temper at times and has made generic apologies (“I know I wasn’t always the best dad” or “I’m sorry if I ever did anything to upset you”). But I truly don’t think he remembers the details. He knows we aren’t close, and he doesn’t fully understand why. And he periodically expresses sadness that we aren’t closer.

The other possibility is that he does remember and simply can’t bear the shame of it. I know that one of his deepest fears is failing as a parent. So perhaps denial is his survival tool.

But of course I felt the sting of every word. And I remember every awful thing he ever said. I carried it around like an anchor for years and years. I am trying now to set that anchor down and let it go. It’s not my burden to carry. My survival tool has been distance and hard boundaries.

JazzSinger—I’m so sorry that you’ve been hurt like this. It’s so confusing to be hurt in this way, and then be told it didn’t happen or that it’s actually our fault somehow.

[EyesUp]

There's a word I can't recall right now, cognitive distortion is all I can come up with right now.  Maybe dissociation or a dissociative state?  Basically, the persons with BPD (pwBPD) work themselves into such an emotional state that they almost become another person.

@FD, are you looking for "cognitive dissonance?"

Cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs, values, or attitudes. People tend to seek consistency in their attitudes and perceptions, so this conflict causes unpleasant feelings of unease or discomfort.

I imagine that BPDs live in this state of conflict - a lot. In the absence of coping mechanisms, the oft-cited disordered thinking kicks in and yields unpredictable behaviors - outbursts, etc.

In my experience, I was surprised - for years - when my n/BPD x wife would respond to the most innocuous comments or circumstances with perceptions that were perfectly contrary to what I would have thought would be "normal".  Up is down, right is left, salty is sweet... and with zero apparent ability to acknowledge or remember it. 

Before I understood more about BPD, I tried to reason, discuss, debate...  that was all invalidating to my x - no matter how gently or politely I attempted to have a discussion. I began to journal everything, and in time, I saw the repeated patterns - which helped to validate my own perceptions... 

This activity was key to moving forward for me - when my attention turned to knowing my own thoughts, and away from attempting to make sense of someone else's...

[JazzSinger]

Thank you all for your responses.  It helps to know I am not alone. 

I totally understand the ”Yes and No” responses. Indeed, there have been times when he’s apologized for the insults But lately, he just blames me, or seems to not know what I’m talking about.   I think he’s getting worse.  I need to end the pain. It’s feeling like divorce is inevitable.