Another threatening email...

[formflier]

Start

Your actions as stay at home parent removing your name from the chore chart and making your kids do the chores that you had on the chore chart show how incredibly selfish and proud you are. I have put up with a lot from you "formflier" mental abuse physical abuse our children begged me to leave you and yet I stayed. that is over. I feel I at least have to say this to you even though I feel sure you will not listen. put your name back on the chore chart and list your chores as they were and do them. Remember PTSD is you left reception being off. please call dr. (family therapist) and make an appointment for a tune up. if you haven't called by today and your name is not back on the chore chart by today then my current plans will remain.

finish

I don't plan any response to this... .

If she wants to have a face to face talk with me... .I'm up for that.

I have not idea where her "plans" are.

As always... .I'm more than happy to attend any therapy session... .with her or discuss our situation with a professional... .with her.

If anyone has any other idea... .I'm all ears... .



FF

[CastleofGlass]

Obviously, this is a trap to get what she wants and hold control. Her 'current plans', she will not tell you about until you ask and that is what she wants. She wants you to have this statement in your mind all day wondering what those plans are and what she intends to do. She is attempting to instill fear in you and also using your kids in the message to up the ante. I have experienced the same things. I imagine you already have the same ideas I just mentioned, but just wanted to back your thoughts with my own.

If your pwBPD is anything like mine, she feels as if she has the power in the marriage with you being unemployed and the PTSD. To her, you are the broken one and she is the one 'struggling' to keep it all together. I feel for you, I understand what it is like to have your own personal issues going on and having them used against you from someone who is supposed to back you for life.

[Notwendy]

FF, although each one of these emails, disputes over chores, your wife's moods, undoing plans are individual events, they seem to be of the same theme. These are the trees, but looking at your posts collectively is the forest.

You two seem to be at a standoff over control of the home and kids. This may be escalating in part over the change in your roles. She may have the right to request things from you, but ordering a spouse around isn't acceptable. You are refusing to be ordered around and that makes sense. Underlying this- is that ordering a spouse around isn't being respectful. There is work to be done, but a spouse can not be a boss. There is a reason it isn't a good idea to have a relationship in the workplace. The home is not one.

She wants it one way, you want it another way- otherwise you would go along with her and just agree with her requests. Agreements between the two of you are not working. I don't know why, but they are not working. Whatever you two are doing with regards to the house and kids doesn't seem to be working because this issue- the e mails, the chore chart, the orders, are happening again and again... .

I don't know of a solution but I think a third party- counselor acting as mediator and also someone to check on accountability- someone not emotionally/socially involved with the two of you. ( ie not your pastor but maybe another one)- counselor or pastor, or anyone you both agree on- might be of help.

[formflier]

 

Yep... .

I don't think I could have written that better myself... .

I actually think getting back to the family t as a unit... .would be good

That was where major... .major changes happened last summer.  Things got much better.

Lots of the changes where from me... .I do have issues I struggle with... .they do have an impact on my family.

I believe I am much more aware now... .of what is "mine" and what is "hers".

Example: She stomps in room... .says... .you think this and that... .I know you don't love me... .hate me... .whatever... .

I run that through my head... .and if I don't have any of those feelings... .if what she said is not true... .accurate... .well... .it's not about me.  I can try to validate... .offer support... .and that kind of thing  but I'm not her therapist... .and it is up to her to manage her feelings... .not "toss" them on me... .but... .she can toss all she wants... .it's my decision to catch or pick them up.

My stuff:  For instance... .the other night.  I realized that I made a huge error/assumption in calculating unemployment benefits.  The web page still says I have a "benefit year"... .my error is I thought I could get benefits for that year.  That is the way it used to be.  My benefits actually run out in a couple weeks.  My state dropped out of a federal program... .

I/we have made some plans based on my mistake.  I beat myself up pretty bad about it... .started sort of panicking... .I was tired... .not a good scene.  I was by myself... .family was downstairs... .it was up to me to solve my issues... .attempt to keep them away from my family.  I did some exercising... .and some mental exercises... .sort of trying to center myself... .and went to bed.

I woke up anxious next morning... .but better.  

None of that is my wife's fault... .it's my stuff... .sure... .there was still an impact... .my family might have noticed I was not around... .or wasn't doing things... .

But... .that is my version of trying to not "offload" things to them that aren't theirs.

FF

[formflier]

She wants it one way, you want it another way- otherwise you would go along with her and just agree with her requests.

Notwendy... .not picking at you... .I'm a words guy... .I'm not seeing requests... .I'm seeing/hearing demands and threats if demands aren't complied with.

I would actually be happy... .or OK with doing this if she would act properly... .if it was part of a negotiation/compromise... .and if there is accountability on her side.  Basically... .that I do my part if she does hers.

That's not what I want.  I would like to clean the house "my way"... .let her do "her way... .but compromise is available.

Hmm... .not sure if I said all that right or now.

But... .you are correct... .it's not working for her... .and I would like it to "go better".

FF

[Notwendy]

Stresses over money and changes in roles are major issues for many marriages, and when there already is maladaptive behavior- these life stresses can be approached in the same way. I watched this over the lifespan of my parent's marriage as they dealt with things over time. If mom was barely able to handle things when they ran smoothly, then things like financial stresses, teen age behavior, did not go smoothly either.

You are dealing with two things that have heavy emotional baggage: Money and Family roles, and who has power. Power is connected with who earns the money. This is the way it is. An emotionally aware spouse will not abuse this, but one who is not, or who has self esteem issues will. Our self image is also formed by what we grew up with. I don't think my father in law cooked a meal or washed a dish in his life. This is not being a MAN to him, and so his son, my H, would freak out if I asked him to wash a dish because this put his manliness on the line emotionally even if he logically saw that it didn't. He would be unhappy as a stay at home parent.

Likewise, if your wife envisions herself as a stay at home mother, even if working is a necessity, she may feel a lot of emotions about her role as a woman, a mother, and still hang on to this.

When my H and I first married, we were both right out of school with equally paying jobs. Then kids came along and I cut back to part time while his salary increased. He has apologized for this now, as he sees how it affected our relationship, but he did abuse this increase in power. First, he declared himself free of anything to do with house and kids. If he did his job- support us, then anything else was my job and that was unfair. He made unilateral decisions with money- declaring that it was HIS money and if I made the money then I would have a say in it. It was his way or the highway and he used his earning the money to justify his decisions. I felt more like a household employee than a wife. This is where my co-dependency kicked in and I went along with this to keep the peace. A more emotionally aware spouse would not abuse this power. A less co-dependent spouse would not have been as compliant.

Your wife may not be navigating her role in a sensitive way either, but this may be all she knows how to do. This is not to excuse this, but to identify the difficulty in this situation- something that could be helped through counseling- a third objective party who does not carry the emotions of your relationship.

FF, you have emotionally big issues- but they are not uncommon in families. And you are both dealing with this in the ways you know how, but they don't seem to be working. A professional could guide you both through this.

[Notwendy]

FF - I see that she is not requesting. She is ordering.

What I meant was that if her way was OK with you- her telling you what to do and how to do it, you would do it. It isn't OK with you.

[formflier]

FF - I see that she is not requesting. She is ordering.

What I meant was that if her way was OK with you- her telling you what to do and how to do it, you would do it. It isn't OK with you.

Correct!  We have both verbalized in and out of counseling that we are equals and not boss of each other.

I don't want to get wrapped up in arguments about "your behavior shows that you believe you are my boss... ."  "no it doesn't"... .yes it does... .

FF

[Notwendy]

These are important things FF but also look at the big picture. How she asks you, what she says to you, an e mail, th chore chart. It looks like a recurrent theme. IMHO, looking at these individual things in detail could be distractions from the whole larger picture of the financial and family role changes- and the emotions tied to them.

[Oooohm]

FF

I've received plenty of those E-mails over the years (Feel for you). Not so much anymore.

I would like to offer some insight... . from my experience with my wife.

Environment Order vs. Mind Chaos... . My wife has actually said to me on occasion that her mind goes a hundred miles an hour and she can never seem to "Calm her mind" therefore she needs everything on the "outside" to be neat and orderly.

Not so much "Clean", She is not OCD... . Tidy... .organized. It's more like... .the more she can cross of her lists (Lots and lots of handwritten lists) the calmer she becomes. With her it's not so much a control "thing" (Controlling me) as it is trying to control her "Environment".

As far as the E-mails... . My wife knows she has a difficult time having a ":)iscussion" vs. a "Conversation"  (Understand the difference with regard to pwBPD ?)

So ":)iscussions" were (in the past) put into E-mails... .to minimize her own dysregulation.  Over the years as I got better at Validating and not JADEing the dysregulations decreased... .therefore the E-mails decreased.  Now we can have ":)iscussions" face to face. (Carefully and cautiously !)

[formflier]

These are important things FF but also look at the big picture. How she asks you, what she says to you, an e mail, th chore chart. It looks like a recurrent theme. IMHO, looking at these individual things in detail could be distractions from the whole larger picture of the financial and family role changes- and the emotions tied to them.

Yep... .we need to talk about... .in counseling... .the "theory"... .the forest... .the big picture... .not what happened on may 15th... .or 18th.

We almost always agree on big picture... .but then implementation... .the day to day decisions... .don't make sense... .at least to me.

FF

[formflier]

 

Update

I spoke with family therapist from last summer.

He has moved to florida.  Great guy... .we had good conversation.

He wants me to have conversation with my wife and ask her.

"Is what you are seeing PTSD issues that are resurfacing"... .or ":)o you have a problem with the way we are relating and running the household"

His take is that if it is his words (me not barking every time she says bark)... .then we need to stick with this in MC and not involved additional specific PTSD treatment at this time.

If he is adamant that she is seeing PTSD issues... .she needs to be very clear and descriptive about that... .and we'll go from there.

We have MC scheduled in one week.

FF

[Notwendy]

You two may agree on the big picture logically,

but if there are underlying emotions/triggers that are not addressed, then they may fall apart in action.

You are also triggered when this happens, but it may not be about you, but something going on with her.

Remember, she isn't triggering you, the triggers are your emotional responses to her behavior/actions.

Your situation may be OK with both of you, logically and practically, but a role reversal and financial worries are too laden with emotions to say it is totally fine. Even if you feel it is fine with you, and she says it is fine- it can't be if this stuff is going on.

The change in my role from working part time to full time stay at home mom was emotional for many reasons, even if it fit an acceptable social mode, and I loved being able to raise my kids. It shifted the power in the marriage and H took advantage of this. However, what made me prime to be triggered by him was this:

A loss of affirmation at work, a loss of my identity as a professional, a loss of autonomy from earning my own paycheck. A loss of equality and balance in my marriage. A loss of socialization outside of my family, a loss of something I enjoyed and was good at. A feeling that I failed in my profession.

A took on what is one of the most important jobs someone could do- raising our kids, but not something society gives a lot of credit for. I lost face with my colleagues, so much that going to my college reunion made me want to cry as I knew so many of my friends had moved on in their careers, while also raising kids.

So, to consider your wife. You say you are conservative Christians and the greatest thing a woman can do in your culture ( I am not a conservative Christian but I have many friends who are and am familiar with their practices) is raise the kids and be home full time. Many of my friends in churches like yours have large families, the moms are home full time. they home school. This is also their identity. Your wife has self esteem issues anyway. I am not surprised that she is hanging on to any power and control she has in the home- even if the solution you have is the best for all of you logically.

Just like me being a SAHM was the best solution for us logically- there was still emotions I had to deal with, but they were mine, my H didn't do them to me, but he could trigger them. If you talk to my H about doing the dishes, he is fine with it. However, while doing them, the voice of his father plays in his head " what kind of MAN are you boy, doing the dishes, no SON of mine who is a self respecting man does that" so he freaks. I didn't know this at the time, I just thought his rages over the dishes- since I only asked him once in a while- were him being a jerk.

Once I understood that, I just took on the dishes. I did them most of the time anyway. It wasn't worth it to me. He did other things. They were just dishes to me, but to him, it was much more.

Get to the emotions FF, in counseling. Maybe that is the key... .

[Hmcbart]

My wife used the chore list last year as a way of blaming me for her actions. She was getting angry and yelling and saying mean and nasty things to our oldest son. She started self harming. She went to Counceling and decided that it all stemmed from the fact that I didn't do enough to help around the house.

A chore list was created. I followed through and did the chores I was asked to do plus some of the ones she said were hers to do. Within 3 months she had completely quit doing any of the chores she agreed to and also never followed through on my requests for affection.

At this point she let me know that the chores weren't really the issue, she just thought they were. It's how I treat her that's the problem.

I think, in my opinion it could be a combination of what Wendy was saying and projection. She needs to get rid of these negative feelings and the chore list is a convenient way to do it.

But I'm dealing with a lot of my own issues and my thoughts could really be irrelevant.   

[maxsterling]

Wow.  I find her email interesting - that reads almost exactly like something I may get. 

[formflier]

 

Constantly moving the bar... .yeah... .that is stereotypical

[formflier]

 

So... .there is a message on the chore chart that says

"Nobody is better than anyone else.  Everyone does chores (or should)"


I'm not going to erase it... or post another message... .it will stay up there... as long as she leaves it.

Kids and I are back at house.  She is out... .her phone is off.  We're putting dinner together... .no idea where or when wife will be back.

I sent her a text inviting her to the park... the declined saying she had things to do.

FF