Toddler mentality

[clairejen]

Hello

I have read in a couple of posts about comparing the BPD mind to a "toddler mentality". What comes to mind are the

---Focus on themselves and their needs above others'

---"In the moment" emotions----when they are angry they feel they'll always be mad; when they are happy they focus on only that, and split off the rage and hurt they felt towards the other person the week or month before

  Can others share what they mmean by the toddler mentality?

Claire

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[dickL]

uBPDw was sexually abused at age 4 , after puberty at 14 she became sexually active w 22bf . she is like her development froze as an impulsive teen , no regard for others and no regard for her children if she is in " love ".her happiness justifies her behavior. she's been in pain her whole life and seeks relief with repeated failed romances. i don't think BPD's are wired not to look outside their world , they don't know how to have empathy. she gets furious when asked about the truth and has tantrums , she's 56 now , breaking things, threatening S and i , using vile words accusing me of horrid things she knows aren't true after 35yrs

[raindancer]

I don't know if this is the proper explanation, but it's my take on it. I'm comparing my BPD with how my kids were as toddlers... .  sometimes he's not too far off

Being stuck in the mindset similar to that of a toddler, sometimes caused by trauma at that age and sometimes what they regress to in dysregulation; uncontrolled temper tantrums that resemble a toddler. BPDs say very inappropriate things including expressing hate without a thought for others' feelings. And cannot communicate emotion/confusion/disappointment and other feelings in a rational and adult manner but rather express it through whatever means serves the immediate purpose like a toddler. Will use childish means of guilt/threats/pleading/obligation and even cuteness to have someone achieve a/their purpose. Cannot express gratitute but rather feel an over-inflated sense of entitlement and often forget that someone achieved for them what they wanted. Remorse - questionnable. Conscience - questionnable. Ability to lie, deceive - absolutely. Ability to frustrate beyond words - absolutely... .  

Pretty much anything a toddler will do.

[amaris]

I concur... .  a list?   

1.  Cannot stand it if I am on the phone and he doesn't know who it is.  Then tests me to see if he is more important by coming up with something really stupid to get me off the phone and will continue to talk to me at the same time until I hang up.   Now, when my friends hear him they automatically go off the phone.  (my kids did this to get my attention at 2 and 3.)

2.  when someone is talking to me about my children he butts in and changes the conversation to be about him.

3.  he will empty the bathroom trash 3 times in a row with one tissue in it just to see what I am doing.

4.  Throws screaming victim fits if he feels he isn't getting the attention he needs.

5.  Has no sense of me needing space from him and will stay in my face until I lose it and tell him to leave the room... .  then he walks out with his head hung down acting like I have crushed him... .  

6.  Says inappropriate things in anger about other people and what he would like to do to them, when in reality he is scared of his own shadow.   

I could go on, but I have described him when he is in BPD mode... .  but also when he isn't he still has the symptoms... .  like an alcoholic.

[waverider]

There are similarities but it is a dangerous comparison. The emotional control and regulation is underdeveloped and as a result the need to be driven by the impulse of the moment is similar to a young child.

The danger is you can fall into unhealthy ways if you treat them the same, as they are not a child and the consequences of treating them the same can be disastrous.

A pampered poodle has 4 legs and can be snappy

A rabid underfed abused pit bull has 4 legs and can be snappy

Similarities but I am sure you would not treat them the same.

A child is inexperienced, pushing boundaries, learning fast, and knows ultimately the parent has authority. They do not have the physical strength of mental ability to dominate and cower you

A pwBPD is experienced, denying boundaries, not learning as they have many years of entrenched behavior with a deep sense of entitlement, they are an adult and you have no authority over them. They can be bigger, stronger and quickness of mind to dominate and cower you

If you attempt to chastise, teach or control a BPD the same way as a child, even when they may be behaving in a childish way, the result will not be the same. As I am sure you have all found out by now.

The point being if you assimilate the two in your own mind you are setting yourself up for provocative destructive consequences.

[raindancer]

There are similarities but it is a dangerous comparison. The emotional control and regulation is underdeveloped and as a result the need to be driven by the impulse of the moment is similar to a young child.

The danger is you can fall into unhealthy ways if you treat them the same, as they are not a child and the consequences of treating them the same can be disastrous.

A pampered poodle has 4 legs and can be snappy

A rabid underfed abused pit bull has 4 legs and can be snappy

Similarities but I am sure you would not treat them the same.

A child is inexperienced, pushing boundaries, learning fast, and knows ultimately the parent has authority. They do not have the physical strength of mental ability to dominate and cower you

A pwBPD is experienced, denying boundaries, not learning as they have many years of entrenched behavior with a deep sense of entitlement, they are an adult and you have no authority over them. They can be bigger, stronger and quickness of mind to dominate and cower you

If you attempt to chastise, teach or control a BPD the same way as a child, even when they may be behaving in a childish way, the result will not be the same. As I am sure you have all found out by now.

The point being if you assimilate the two in your own mind you are setting yourself up for provocative destructive consequences.

Absolutely agree, WR.

I should have finished my thought or clarified it better in my comparison. It is hard to put tone in writing and re-reading it this morning it comes across as joking, not my intention - my earlier post should be read with a tone of "it doesn't make it right"

I get tired of dealing with a grown man with a grown body and an adult mind, who acts like a child. Yesterday was one of those days where everything I put in my comparison, I was dealing with. Where his behavior was a means to serve his purpose of the moment, without regard for how his behaviors were affecting me.

So this morning, I will add that my pwBPD acts like an unruly toddler while having all the mental and physical capacities of an adult. I try to not use the word manipulate, but his childlike behaviors were a means to manipulate an outcome that meant he got what he wanted and I ended up with the frustration... .  

(more or less like watching someone purposely walk in front of a train just to see if they will be standing once the train passes - I'm powerless to stop him, wouldn't even try, all I can do is stand back and shake my head in confusion of why he'd want to try)

While I do love the man and am willing to help him in his journey of T, I refuse to play the role of parent for him. It's not my role to teach him, discipline him or chastise him. He is a grown man and if he can create a situation for himself by acting like a child, then he can accept the natural outcomes of it like an adult. 

[almost789]

Clairjen, you seem spot on. I can relate to all these posts. It helps me significantly to see my pwBPD as a toddler when he acts up. I believe it helps relieve my anger, it also helps me to understand the complete lack of empathy and consideration for others needs and the focus only on their needs and getting them met. Interstingly, Jeffery Young Clinical Psychologist and inventor of Schema Focused Therapy, which is highly successfull in treatment of BPD. Schema Focused Therapy focus is on limitted reparenting where the therapist in a way "re parents" the inner child of the person with BPD. As in setting limits, providing unconditional love, and meeting the childs needs in a limitted way. I have heard that the arrested emotional development is parallel to what age the emotional or physical defect happened.

[almost789]

I wanted to clarify because the "complete lack of empathy" is inaccurate. Its not that they don't care about people. It is that sometimes in difficult situations their emotions are so difficult to deal with that they can only manage to think about themselves in that moment and aren't thinking about the others needs. That's where the perception of lack of empathy comes from. I don't believe it is because they trully don't care. I think BPD people do care very much for others, it just sometimes doesn't seem that way.

I also want to correct that there is any "defect" that was the wrong word I wasn't sure how to word that. It is thought in some cases to be arrested emotional development parallel to the age when the child did not have his emotional or physical needs met in one way or another.

[almost789]

Also want to clarify that I don't "see him as a toddler" he is a grown man and I in no way picture him as a baby. But I try to understand his thinking as thinking that of a toddler... .  

Jeeze... . I just keep digging me a hole with these words I use at times sometimes.

[Rockylove]

no worries, SummerT321... .  I get that way all the time.  I had a realization one day that left me thinking about the toddler thing.  When my daughter was 2 or 3 and Sesame Street would come on TV, she would get so excited that she'd start jumping and giggling and then crying!  It was like her emotions didn't know which way to go.  My uBPDbf does that same thing when he's feeling love for me.  It makes me sad.  He's no idea which emotion to feel.  He's not progressed beyond toddlerhood in that respect.

[luckyduck]

There are similarities but it is a dangerous comparison. The emotional control and regulation is underdeveloped and as a result the need to be driven by the impulse of the moment is similar to a young child.

The danger is you can fall into unhealthy ways if you treat them the same, as they are not a child and the consequences of treating them the same can be disastrous.

A pampered poodle has 4 legs and can be snappy

A rabid underfed abused pit bull has 4 legs and can be snappy

Similarities but I am sure you would not treat them the same.

A child is inexperienced, pushing boundaries, learning fast, and knows ultimately the parent has authority. They do not have the physical strength of mental ability to dominate and cower you

A pwBPD is experienced, denying boundaries, not learning as they have many years of entrenched behavior with a deep sense of entitlement, they are an adult and you have no authority over them. They can be bigger, stronger and quickness of mind to dominate and cower you

If you attempt to chastise, teach or control a BPD the same way as a child, even when they may be behaving in a childish way, the result will not be the same. As I am sure you have all found out by now.

The point being if you assimilate the two in your own mind you are setting yourself up for provocative destructive consequences.

Thank you for this assessment.  I am constantly struggling to keep this in mind.  I have gotten so used to my uBPDH's behavior that I automatically go into parent mode for him.  I'm afraid that the hole he may be digging himself into may have consequences of jail time if he isn't careful (he's having an emotional affair with a 16-year-old girl that I'm worried he could take too far) but no matter what I do it's his choice to make.  Our S ~11 months really does need me to be a parent so I have to save my energy and sanity for that.

[almost789]

Yes Rockylove, exactly. I remember saying to my pwBPD before I knew anything about BPD, I remember laughing one time and saying your acting like a kid! He was happy and showing it in a childish kind of way. I think its one of those things that alot of us find so lovable about them in the early idealization stage, the enthusiasm and exuberance of a child. I never saw the negative temper tantrum because my friend would go silent instead of throw a temper tantrum. I think he conditioned himself to do this rather than let someone see him have a fit like a child. I've connected with several high functioning BPD people and they claim even though having college degree's and being intellectual adults they say that when they get upset they act like a five year old and they are aware of it, but can't control it. Such a polarization they live with.

[Rockylove]

I've connected with several high functioning BPD people and they claim even though having college degree's and being intellectual adults they say that when they get upset they act like a five year old and they are aware of it, but can't control it. Such a polarization they live with.

Oddly enough, when my fiance is in that frame of mind, he will push my buttons until I feel very small myself.  I'm working on that part so I can remain out of my childhood and fully in the present.  It isn't easy, but I'm determined.  I know that it's because he's feeling so small himself and well... .  misery loves company.  So sad that this is the way it is and he's learned no better coping skills. 

[almost789]

Oh yeah, absolutely. When mine pushes my buttons I react quite immaturely. This is the part I am trying to turn off using mindfulness and recognizing my triggers.  This is what non personality disordered people DO have control of where BPD people don't this is why they are considered BPD, lack of control among other things.

[clairejen]

Hi

Interesting feedback. Amaris wrote

2.  when someone is talking to me about my children he butts in and changes the conversation to be about him.

3.  he will empty the bathroom trash 3 times in a row with one tissue in it just to see what I am doing.

----Sounds like a toddler. And sounds like he is invading "boundaries" and privacy.

Summer wrote

I have heard that the arrested emotional development is parallel to what age the emotional or physical defect happened.

----You asked about another word instead of defect. I was thinnking of "trauma".  They get "fixated" or stuck at the developmental age when they were abused, abandoned, or otherwise traumatized.

Claire

[almost789]

Hi Clairjen, Yes, thats the word I was going to use as that is the what we see documented frequently, but I tend to not like to apply the traumatic childhood thing to ALL BPD people because while many are thought to be caused from traumatic childhoods, some are not. It could be simply that the child is predispositioned to emotional reactivity and for some reason or another their needs didn't get met in the way that they needed to be rather than actually having "trauma" in their childhood.

[Chosen]

I agree that in many ways a pwBPD is like a toddler.

However, toddlers are, in many cases, truly ignorant, whereas pwBPDs know what should be done, and what shouldn't be, but they push boundaries and knowingly try break accepted behavorial "rules".  I think pwBPDs are more like toddlers that refuse to grow up and be trained.  Like big bullies when they are dysregulated.

Therefore, although they have similarities, it would be wrong to treat them a way you would treat a child.  In any case, a pwBPD has a "you don't own me" mentality, and they will not accept our "teaching".  If anything, they will use it to control us even more.  Also, for a child, you can teach them something is right or wrong, but for a pwBPD, they know very well which is which, they just choose to do something wrong... .  this is why we should also change our reactions to those actions if we want any positive impact.  Just telling them won't work.

[amaris]

Maybe someone here can give me some suggestions as to how to handle my BPDh right now... . over the past month he has had a series of huge changes in his work with no other choices... . he has been flipping out over every little thing and it is escalating... . this week he found out that his daughter, who he raised and is very enmeshed with, found out her husband has been cheating on her... . now he is enraged and in trying to reach out to her she has told him to back off because she has enough to deal with than have to handle his pain as well... . so now, he is raging at God, the world, and me that his life is over and is threatening one minute to drive off a cliff and the next he is crying... . he is acting like about 4 years old... . what scares me is that it has been going longer than I have ever seen it go in 14 years married to him and his stress level is through the roof.   This is the constant adrenaline saturation that strokes are made of... . is there anything I can do beside validate him and stay out of his way?

[almost789]

Validate, DON'T place ANY of YOUR needs on him. Like your need for him to calm down and act normal! hehehee.

DBT, distress tolerance. Get a DBT book, go online to DBT self help. It's nearly impossible to turn this around once it's kicked in. He needs to be able to recognize it before it comes on, not after. Learning the DBT skills can help him handle these situations better without going off the deep end.

[qkslvrgirl]

Sometimes when he's acting childish, I just ask my uBPDh, "how old are you right now?" - and he usually says 12 or 13 years old.

He cannot tolerate change, either: A few years ago he accused me of changing - and I came right back with, "Of course I've changed: Everything and everyone is constantly changing. It is impossible not to change". As an adult, he could not continue that line of baiting.

Tangent: A couple of the Board Advisors have used a quote about change - Nothing changes until you change. That is SO true - in essence we can only change ourselves and unpack our own emotional baggage. From my observations, the BPD is trying to hold the world in place (change avoidance); and that is going to lead to conflict with the growing Non partner. I thought that my changing would act like a light to his path; but I'm no longer sure.

[waverider]

I thought that my changing would act like a light to his path; but I'm no longer sure.

Your changing is primarily to protect you and to ensure you are not making it worse than needs be. You cannot directly change them, but if you cut of their avenue of soothing by projection onto you, they MAY seek healthier methods of coping and learn self soothing skills.

You have to be stable before they have any chance of changing. Even if they dont change you will still be a better person for it, and it is something you can do. Being able to do and change something will reward you with a greater sense of direction and self awareness.

[qkslvrgirl]

Thanks for your comments, Waverider: I totally agree that change and discovery of our own lives is a significant benefit to an unbalanced relationship.

You commented at the beginning of this thread that, "A pwBPD is experienced, denying boundaries, not learning as they have many years of entrenched behavior with a deep sense of entitlement, they are an adult and you have no authority over them. They can be bigger, stronger and quickness of mind to dominate and cower you."

The challenges versus the benefits of even the remnants of a co-dependent relationship are often questioned on this board in the form of: ":)oes it ever get better? Why do you stay? Is this the mental equivalent of staying with a physically ill or disabled relative?

Just wondering how to answer the "Why do I stay" question for myself, now that I see there is so little hope of having anything other than a limited and circumscribed/boundary filled life with a pwBPD. My conclusion was that maybe I can enjoy my life and let the primary relationship remain unfulfilling. Ugh!

Quicksilver Girl

[waverider]

Thanks for your comments, Waverider: I totally agree that change and discovery of our own lives is a significant benefit to an unbalanced relationship.

You commented at the beginning of this thread that, "A pwBPD is experienced, denying boundaries, not learning as they have many years of entrenched behavior with a deep sense of entitlement, they are an adult and you have no authority over them. They can be bigger, stronger and quickness of mind to dominate and cower you."

The challenges versus the benefits of even the remnants of a co-dependent relationship are often questioned on this board in the form of: ":)oes it ever get better? Why do you stay? Is this the mental equivalent of staying with a physically ill or disabled relative?

Just wondering how to answer the "Why do I stay" question for myself, now that I see there is so little hope of having anything other than a limited and circumscribed/boundary filled life with a pwBPD. My conclusion was that maybe I can enjoy my life and let the primary relationship remain unfulfilling. Ugh!

Quicksilver Girl

I can only answer that from my circumstance, by not engaging in combative behaviors my partners high alert defensive reactions have substantially dropped. That is, many of the boundaries that were conflict zones have now become non issues, as they become more accepted.

We do a lot of things together and get on well but her participation is not a prerequisite, its just an option. If she doesn't participate, its not a let down. At first enforced "me time" felt almost like some kind of passive aggression. Once established it just becomes us being individuals with less co dependence, and when we do things together it feels less of a chore or duty, but more of something we both choose to do. Less pressure if you like.

So no, creating your own independence does not develop into isolationism within the RS, though it may seem to go through that phase.

The desire to fight back or defend fades, where you at first had to bite your tongue becomes an impulse that doesn't even register anymore. If you can substantially remove conflict , or fear of conflict, then it becomes easier and less threatening to have more open and rewarding interactions.

Resentment fades into periodic frustrations, and even regular relationships have that.

It is possible to have a rewarding and happy, yet dysfunctional, relationship, as long as you are capable of changing whats most important to you.

Which goes back to the thread title, and stop believing they are a toddler... . they are a pwBPD

[qkslvrgirl]

Waverider: We do a lot of things together and get on well but... . participation is ... . just an option... . Once established it ("me time" just becomes us being individuals with less co dependence, and when we do things together it feels less of a chore or duty, but more of something we both choose to do.

Yes! That is where we (my uBPDh and I) are at now - just reached this point.

You are right - there is less and less irritation (resistance) for me, as I become more an observer than a reactor. Assumptions (on his part) have lessened as I've learned to 1) listen without reacting, 2) recognize potential "hoops" being held out and choosing not to jump; and saying 'no' by my behavior without justifying. He has dropped a lot of toddler antics because it provides no reaction (positive or negative).

So what I am experiencing is the beginning of me creating my own life and choosing to participate as a couple when I want to do so. It is actually a LOT less stressful, you're correct about that.

Thanks for your insightful comments, Waverider.

The glass is half full again - haha!

[amaris]

It is all about just not allowing yourself to fall into thinking that your safe when you never are... . at least not until they say they need help.  Learn to recognize the signs that something is not right.  I went with my BPDH tonight for a simple walk... . he had been acting like he wants to spend time with me... . he always complains he doesn't have enough time with me even when we are together days on end... . what he is really saying is that his gaping hole isn't being filled by me.  anyway,the walk... . our daughters husband just had an affair... . he had just came back from being over there... . I should have been more on my game... . but wanting to get out of the house I went for the walk... . so sorry I did... . he started in on me being a horrible wife who doesn't meet his needs... . how he is always alone (?) and on and on and on... . I just had to sit there and seethe knowing that unless I just validate his feelings he would not stop... . out of desparation I say, that yes he has a point (his point was that I was not a submissive wife, which is my trigger to explode)  and yes I can see how he feels... . that was all it took for him to calm down somewhat, though he continued to blast me with accusations with me saying I can see how he feels... . and now he is in his office pouting cause he still is needy... . sometimes I literally hate my life... .

[waverider]

It is all about just not allowing yourself to fall into thinking that your safe when you never are... . at least not until they say they need help.  Learn to recognize the signs that something is not right.  I went with my BPDH tonight for a simple walk... . he had been acting like he wants to spend time with me... . he always complains he doesn't have enough time with me even when we are together days on end... . what he is really saying is that his gaping hole isn't being filled by me.  anyway,the walk... . our daughters husband just had an affair... . he had just came back from being over there... . I should have been more on my game... . but wanting to get out of the house I went for the walk... . so sorry I did... . he started in on me being a horrible wife who doesn't meet his needs... . how he is always alone (?) and on and on and on... . I just had to sit there and seethe knowing that unless I just validate his feelings he would not stop... . out of desparation I say, that yes he has a point (his point was that I was not a submissive wife, which is my trigger to explode)  and yes I can see how he feels... . that was all it took for him to calm down somewhat, though he continued to blast me with accusations with me saying I can see how he feels... . and now he is in his office pouting cause he still is needy... . sometimes I literally hate my life... .

So now when he is feeling insecure and wants someone to tell him his crazy thinking is acceptable and understandable he knows how to get that validation... . right?

Use of S & E without the T can dig you a hole that gets deeper each time. You need to work more on how to bring a little more T into it without being to confrontational about it. I know that's not easy but it needs to be done.

It is the T that pushes them onto self soothing

[Linlu53]

Amaris, I can so relate to your situation. My uBPDh always has me put speakerphone on so he can hear my conversations, always talks while I'm trying to talk, etc. I admire how the person at the top of this thread is learning to set boundaries, but I'm beginning to feel overwhelmed that I will not be able to do what's necessary to support my H and get myself healthy. I feel smothered by him and he has no idea why. As far as the toddler thing, my husband talks in baby talk or at least like a small child. He was left with his abusive father for a month when he was just 2 while his mother was in the hospital. He suffered verbal, emotional and some physical abuse his whole life from his father and shows great disrespect for his mother now. I think he resents her for allowing it to go on. His dad died when my husband was 20 and now he acts like his father was a saint. I never deal well with his rages. And if I set boundaries, I never know how to go through with the consequences. Because I fear his anger. For instance, every Sunday we go to church. Service starts at 10:30. He is always running late. Even though we have 2 cars he will not let me leave to go on time. I have insisted at times, but he just doesn't come then and says it is my fault that he didn't go. If I stay and wait for him then I am mad at him and embarrassed to walk in an hour late. He thinks nothing of it. So many situations like this. No time with friends or even my own daughter. He gets offended if I try to have a life outside of him. I hope to learn some things here.

[waverider]

Amaris, I can so relate to your situation. My uBPDh always has me put speakerphone on so he can hear my conversations, always talks while I'm trying to talk, etc. I admire how the person at the top of this thread is learning to set boundaries, but I'm beginning to feel overwhelmed that I will not be able to do what's necessary to support my H and get myself healthy. I feel smothered by him and he has no idea why. As far as the toddler thing, my husband talks in baby talk or at least like a small child. He was left with his abusive father for a month when he was just 2 while his mother was in the hospital. He suffered verbal, emotional and some physical abuse his whole life from his father and shows great disrespect for his mother now. I think he resents her for allowing it to go on. His dad died when my husband was 20 and now he acts like his father was a saint. I never deal well with his rages. And if I set boundaries, I never know how to go through with the consequences. Because I fear his anger. For instance, every Sunday we go to church. Service starts at 10:30. He is always running late. Even though we have 2 cars he will not let me leave to go on time. I have insisted at times, but he just doesn't come then and says it is my fault that he didn't go. If I stay and wait for him then I am mad at him and embarrassed to walk in an hour late. He thinks nothing of it. So many situations like this. No time with friends or even my own daughter. He gets offended if I try to have a life outside of him. I hope to learn some things here.

Stick with it there is a lot to learn here, a bit at a time, that will make you feel less powerless. It will take time, but staying as is will cause you to wilt and loose your own sense of self.

You will have to start by learning that his displeasure is not the ruling force in your life. You have probably taught him that if he shows displeasure he will be allowed to pander to his own selfish ways.

YOU gave him that control, you can learn to take that control away. Control is YOUR choice to give and take back. It is not their choice to take it from you, against your will.

Work on Boundaries and enforcing them. His actions lead to his consequences.

[amaris]

So now when he is feeling insecure and wants someone to tell him his crazy thinking is acceptable and understandable he knows how to get that validation... . right?

Use of S & E without the T can dig you a hole that gets deeper each time. You need to work more on how to bring a little more T into it without being to confrontational about it. I know that's not easy but it needs to be done.

It is the T that pushes them onto self soothing


Waverider... . can you give me an example... . ?  Use of S & E without the t means, use of sympathy and empathy without the truth can deepen the hold of his mentality, is what I think you said... . when I point out truth that what he is saying makes no sense and in a few hours will not even make sense to him, he talks right over me.  The only thing that will get him to shut up is to say I can understand how he feels, when I am really not... . so give me some tools here, please... .   Please note:  I was trapped with him in the car and could not escape at the time... . normally, when he resorts to this craziness I just leave him talking to himself and come back a few hours later and he is fine... . this time I could not do that... . thanks!

[waverider]

Waverider... . can you give me an example... . ?  Use of S & E without the t means, use of sympathy and empathy without the truth can deepen the hold of his mentality, is what I think you said... . when I point out truth that what he is saying makes no sense and in a few hours will not even make sense to him, he talks right over me.  The only thing that will get him to shut up is to say I can understand how he feels, when I am really not.... . so give me some tools here, please... .  Please note:  I was trapped with him in the car and could not escape at the time... . normally, when he resorts to this craziness I just leave him talking to himself and come back a few hours later and he is fine... . this time I could not do that... . thanks!

Dont say you understand, firstly because you dont, so it is not the truth and secondly sometimes it can actually be invalidating because they are often telling you that you dont, and you are saying they are wrong and that you do.(In that case they are actually right & your are the one fibbing). Try using the term "you can only imagine" instead.

Being pushed into a situation where you lie to keep the peace causes you to resent not only them but also yourself.

The truth should be phrased more from your point of view, eg " I am finding it difficult to follow what you mean, can we talk about this later after I am in a better frame of mind to think about it'. or " I hear what you are saying, Its not the way it looks to me"

If you use terms like "but" & "you are wrong", "thats rubbish" etc it directly invalidates the S & E you may just have used and the cycle starts again. The truth is still your view point as opposed to stating undebateble facts, that's too confronting. Even absolute facts are more palatable if you prefix them with "I believe". eg "I believe I did a good job"

Empathy for being caught out in a car though, that is the one instance where deflection and defuse should be employed. At all cost try to avoid touchy issues in a car especially if you are  a passenger.  As the driver when caught in this situation I have stopped the car and refused to sit in it while this sort of nonsense is happening. Its always a hard one, and they know this.