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 1 
 on: May 22, 2024, 10:59:44 AM  
Started by GratefulDad - Last post by kells76
Hello GratefulDad, glad you felt ready to check back in again  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

When it comes to the desire to write a letter/email to the pwBPD in our lives, it can be important to really think through our goals and expectations. Sometimes, what's lying underneath that desire, is a tacit belief that "if I could just hit on the correct wording, my message would finally get through". And it's important to interrogate that belief to see if it's connected to reality.

I hear you that you want to validate her, share your feelings, share what you want out of the relationship, and set boundaries.

I'll comment that even as a "generally normal" person, that would be a lot for me to receive in one letter. And, brief backstory, that's even though I do much better with written relationship communication than spoken (my H and I, neither of whom have BPD, had some significant challenges over the last few years, and used email to work through a lot).

To me, it reads a bit like a Hail Mary -- one last big effort to turn things around. Is that at all close, or am I off base?

I ask because relationship issues like yours (and mine) don't happen overnight. It takes years to kind of drift into the problem zone, and it can take significant time to climb back out (again, even between my H and I, we did not resolve our issue with one email -- it has taken probably a year+ to get back to normal).

Again, if I'm off base, let me know -- I'm thinking that if healing the relationship is your goal, it may be more worth it to make a much longer term plan, versus hanging so much on one big letter.

...

Ideally, what outcome would you want, if you were to give her the letter as described?

Based on your experiences, what outcome(s) might you expect?

Do those overlap?

...

We can walk with you through this -- effective communication with a pwBPD isn't always intuitive.


 2 
 on: May 22, 2024, 10:50:59 AM  
Started by NorthStarGuide - Last post by kells76
Hi NorthStarGuide and Welcome

You're not alone in coping with a partner with substance use issues plus BPD; that's no walk in the park. It is good to hear that he is trying sobriety?

Just to get a bit more background on your situation, how long have the two of you been together? Do you have any kids? And what catalyzed his decision to stop drinking?

In terms of your question here:

Would love to know your go to phrases when your loved one enters their borderline zone.

it might depend on what your goals are. If your goal is to protect yourself from hurtful words and actions, then in a sense, no words are required -- you're allowed to have true boundaries and exit the situation.

If he is in a place where he isn't being hurtful, and you want to connect with him, then true emotional validation may be the way to go.

Want to walk us through an example situation, and we can give you some ideas?

...

I am grieving what feels like the loss of my marriage, the loss of my person..... I'm thankful to find this community of support because to the outside world, my spouse is "normal", but to those of us who are close to him, we experience the chaos. 

I'm starting to think that is a key step in choosing to stay in a relationship with a pwBPD -- grieving what you wanted and what could have been, and moving towards acceptance that this person is who he is.

As you process so much, do you have a therapist or counselor for yourself?

Looking forward to hearing more from you;

kells76

 3 
 on: May 22, 2024, 09:59:37 AM  
Started by NorthStarGuide - Last post by NorthStarGuide
Would love to know your go to phrases when your loved one enters their borderline zone.

My spouse stopped drinking alcohol about a year ago and since then it has been very clear that he has the symptoms of BPD. I had attributed his symptoms to drinking but now realize that the drinking was the medication to calm the inner turmoil.

I am grieving what feels like the loss of my marriage, the loss of my person..... I'm thankful to find this community of support because to the outside world, my spouse is "normal", but to those of us who are close to him, we experience the chaos. 

 4 
 on: May 22, 2024, 09:53:09 AM  
Started by Oilwater15 - Last post by Oilwater15
We are getting ready to be in the same town as our son/Dil and grandchildren for 2 weeks for appointments. We have been talking to our son on the phone once a week or every two weeks for the last few months, but haven't been in town. In the past, our daughter in law has invited us over for a meal, and we always go because, well, our son and grandchildren are there. This time, after everything has really escalated and I have blocked all contact with her because of her verbal abuse, I'm thinking we might refuse the invite ( maybe make an excuse)if we get it. In your experience, will that just make her angrier and cause more damage? I realize I am blessed to still be able to speak to my son and I don't want to mess that up. And I also don't want to give her yet another reason to have her pit him and the grandkids against us. I've been reading in these blogs how easily that could happen.

 5 
 on: May 22, 2024, 08:29:16 AM  
Started by GratefulDad - Last post by GratefulDad
Hey ya'll,

It has been a while since I first and last posted on here. I found a therapist (though he recently retired) that specializes in BPD and have made some progress personally but minimally with my wife as she refuses to go to therapy. Over the last few years, I check in here on the forum to read folks stories, advice, and glimmers of hope but I find it overwhelming and wind up feeling hopeless because of my own personal situation. Apologies for not being a more contributive member of the forum.

Hoping the group can share some advice or past experience with the idea of writing my wife a note to try to validate where they are coming from, clearly express my needs, and ultimately set boundaries.

A little background - my wife and I have been together for 13+ years (11 married) have 2 kids (8 and 5). Looking back, I first noticed something was off when we were dating but didn't realize at the time. When we were planning the wedding, she had her first real BPD episodes and I almost called off the wedding. Her mother actually tried to talk me out of marrying her, knowing her BPD trends and how difficult it can be to live with her. Things were pretty okay before kids with exception of some unexplainable (at least in my eyes) episodes occasionally. Then almost immediately after the birth of our first child, my world got turned upside down. I thought I was losing my mind and questioned reality. It has been downhill since and peace is so rare my anxiety and depression are hard to manage. I cherish the good moments, but it has gotten to the point that I don't trust her when she's "normal" and am waiting for the storm to inevitably come. All things considered, we are blessed with a great life - nice home, neighborhood, community, friends, activities, church, she's a stay at home mom, etc. but she hates me (at least 90% of the time). The constant criticism, put-downs, name-calling, yelling, silent treatments, lack of intimacy, etc. you all know the drill - she's swimming against the current of our relationship and life in general. Through therapy, I'm much less defensive than I used to be and practice validation when I have the energy. I don't want a divorce for sake of not seeing my kids 1/2 the time (at best) and for leaving them with her unattended the other 1/2. I was away last week for work (which she is still holding against me) and my 8 year old, completely unprompted, said "dada, I don't like it when you are away because mom yells more and I don't have you to run to for comfort."

Where we are now - I've become an expert on BPD, read countless books, listened to podcast, read forums, therapy etc. I've also given up alcohol, which was a major crutch to deal with the onslaught of attacks, and have worked on myself a lot. Without her participating in DBT therapy, however, we are not in a good place as a couple. Her sister is trying to help get her into therapy so I'm minimally hopeful. Her rage episodes have become almost constant, she is rarely "normal," and I don't fight back much but have a hard time communicating back in an effective way because I am exhausted. She's become almost impossible to have a conversation with and I am at my wits end.

Please share your advice with my thought here: I'm thinking about writing her a letter for her to read on the plane this weekend (she's going to visit her cousin). My intention in the letter is to provide validation, explain how I feel and my basic needs/expectations in our relationship, and to set boundaries. I'm not going to make an ultimatum but I do want to ask her to make a decision to against me or with me.

What are your thoughts? Has anyone tried a letter to try to get effective communication started when verbal is impossible? Will this totally blow up in my face and give her something else to use against me?

Thanks in advanced!!

 6 
 on: May 22, 2024, 08:09:02 AM  
Started by divina - Last post by divina
Thank you both for your very insightful posts. You have given me much to think about from very different perspectives.  I apologize if I don't answer quickly. I don't get notified when there are responses to the thread.

I had a win in celebrating her birthday.  I hope it isn't temporary. 

 7 
 on: May 22, 2024, 07:32:04 AM  
Started by SendingKindness - Last post by SendingKindness
Thanks so much @Sancho! As you say,it’s helpful to know others are wrestling with these issues. At  this point, I haven’t completely cut off my financial support, but almost.

My daughter is not working, but received some funds last November in a legal settlement-I’m not sure how much, but I know something came through for her.I think over $100K.  After that she was spending a lot of money - more than I was providing. She took a month long trip to Mexico and had other related expenditures. I don’t have the whole picture, but that’s part of the reason I decided to tighten up. I asked her to provide more information about her assets and needs before I provided more to her - i have been foregoing things like vacations in order to help her, so it was a bit of an eye-opener when she took an expensive holiday! I think (again, I don’t know) that she has now burned through the funds she got in the settlement, which is why I’ve suggested she get a financial plan in place before I provide more. She is almost 40 and also owns her own home, which is far larger and more expensive than she needs (3 storey heritage house with a swimming pool and high maintenance costs), so another reason I have been asking for a financial plan before I provide more funds. She seems to feel I owe her a lot, and makes up stories about childhood abuse as a way of trying to get it, I think.I feel she has lots of options ( eg selling her house, applying for financial assistance) before coming to me, which I am now thinking should be a last resort. She is very resistant about these other approaches, likely because I’ve been the easiest way to get funds in the last year.

 8 
 on: May 22, 2024, 06:43:14 AM  
Started by BPDstinks - Last post by BPDstinks
Friday will be an entire year since i physically SAW my BPD daughter.  I am so sad, nothing is shaking this sadness (than i feel IRRITATED b/c I have worked very hard on my own mental health)

 9 
 on: May 22, 2024, 06:16:15 AM  
Started by SendingKindness - Last post by Sancho
Hi Sendingkindness
Thank you for posting. I have been thinking over many of the things you raise. BT400 has also been posting about setting boundaries and I have been interested in his posts. I am so grateful for people posting here because it helps me know there are others in the world experiencing similar situations and trying to sort out what to do.

All the things you describe and that I experience are covered under the diagnostic criteria for BPD, so it is not a surprise that money issues, anger, tirades and not coping with 'no' are what we have to deal with.

First of all I think everyone's situation is individual - yes the criteria are there but not all bpd folk have all the criteria. There needs to be 5 for a diagnosis. Then there is the individual person. My dd is low functioning - so different from yours - and so my journey with her is different in many respects.

What I am struggling with at the moment is money - similar to your situation. I have come to a point where verbal abuse is not so much an issue for me - most of the time! I know dd has little control and I am her target of blame. I also know she doesn't like herself after the explosions.

But the money situation is worrying for me. My dd does have a pension income but is always asking for money. She lives with me and does very little. When someone wants her to come and see them etc off she goes. I am sure they know when she has money and in this way they exploit her in my opinion.

I used to pay her debts - but I stopped this many years ago. I wish I had done it earlier because once I stopped bailing her out she got bad credit and therefore was not able to keep on getting credit cards or purchasing lots of stuff on credit. So that was a very helpful thing for me!

Last year I told her not to ask me for money and it worked for a while, then slipped back. DD has a couple of court cases coming up and she has been housebound so under a lot of pressure so I was planning on waiting till after these things and then tightening up on the money. But she is getting more desperate for friends and that means being the one to supply them with alcohol, cigarettes etc.

I know some people do believe that if you put up the boundaries it will help the person to see that they need help etc. I think however that it depends on the individual and the parent knows their child best. In my case my dd can't even make a phone call to make a doctor appt and when I do make one she usually backs out through intense anxiety. Lots of boundaries that would be suitable for one person would not work for my dd - just back her into a corner with nowhere to go.

I am not sure from what you say whether your dd does have some source of income - other then you that is? Also in relation to money (I know you are setting boundaries around other things) have you presented dd with a planned withdrawal of funds from you or have you just stopped?

As I say I am struggling with this at the moment so appreciate others' posts very much!

 10 
 on: May 22, 2024, 05:18:41 AM  
Started by ompluscator - Last post by ompluscator
Hi all. This is my first post here. I found this forum after looking for more information on BPD, after I got some idea from the sister, who is in psychology field, that my current partner sounds like someone with BPD.

This might be longer, but there is no other way when a person is potentially bound to BPD during childhood (mother), with ex-wife, and now a new partner (but hopefully not too long).

My partner and me are together for 6 months now. She is a single mother, son of 6. For the very beginning, tings looked nice, although a little bit faster than expected. Nevertheless, it didn't bother me, as I divorced last year, I am 39 years old and I do not look for something casual. Still, there were some things that immediately raised alarm: she introduced me to her kid after a few dates, not even first month passed. She left for vacation for 2 weeks shortly after that, alone, leaving the kid with her mom and stepdad. For a few times I did some babysitting in those 2 weeks, as kid wan't in good mood due to his mom missing, and I provided some fun and toys for him, so I was interesting to him. After the vacation, she looked annoyed with me presence - not a single clear reflection on the fact that I was babysitting her kid in those 2 weeks. She blamed that on here adaptation to time zone again, so I left it there. A little by little, we got along, I practically I started to live with them in a matter of week - in that time she even told me that "she would not like me to leave ever" and that "her kid expressed a wish that I live with them".

It looked fast to me, especially to my sister, but I simply accepted that as someone having genuine trust and feelings for me. We started planning the first vacation for three of us, for beginning of spring. We also paid for vacation in summer. When I say "we", that makes actually 80% or more with my money. I missed to set the right borders there, and expectations quickly went to "I pay for the most of the things": hotels, restaurants, groceries, amazon deliveries,... In this period her unpredicted bursts of annoyance started to become more often. I would do something to help her, or offer my help, or ask her about something - and reactions were very often annoyances - questions with "why", rude tone, questioning every my move. I really felt like having someone who judges all my doings, that I walk on eggshells. My confidence started to deteriorate, I tried to comfort her, to avoid being judged - all the points I learned from the early childhood - but I will return to it.

After vacation, things started escalating. The kid do bedwetting from time to time, but now he started doing that almost every day. In one of those occasions, during the night, she told me that "she wanted me at my place". When next day I picked up my stuff, she insisted that I stay. But then new incidents like that appear. I did many things in her apartment, like electric and water installations, cooking, dishwashing, babysitting... and the first time I rejected to comply for one task to do 3 days earlier than I offered I got "I don't want to live with you. I want you at your place". I told her later over WhatsApp that I will definitely spend time at my place, but now that became a problem - that I informed her about leaving her apartment over a message - she absolutely rejected that she practically throw me away from her apartment. This continued in following two weeks - during one argument in her car, when I simply asked to have the same treatment of my wishes as she had, she stopped the car next to train station expecting from me to leave, which I did. Finally, days after, when I spent the whole day of helping her, she asked me "why did I wear that polo shirt", and when I said "because I liked it", she told me that "then I can wear it alone".

That was enough for me. I packed myself, she asked me then to give her back the keys, which I did, and I left. Many calls after, that night, I returned back on her insisting, to talk, but she didn't offer anything, insisting that this "alone" doesn't mean that. I left her again, realising that it is over - she told me not to call her anymore, anyway. But, tomorrow she called me and begged me to come to talk. I tried to pushed back, insisting that there is no sense to be together anymore, but she started triggering the feeling of guilt in me, that I have more responsability for other human being than for me - but I will return to this.

I returned to talk. And without asking for anything, she offered everything, she realised how she behaved, and how that was wrong, and so on... and I felt like I lost all arguments, so I gave it a chance. But, I don't feel it anymore, this scar I got in last couple of weeks sound familiar, and I started to dig more, with my sister, and especially with my therapist. The following days, she behaved perfectly, but also she wasn't giving me any space. Literraly she wanted to be present every minute of my life. And that bothers me - I lost contacts with my friends, I rarely see them. I don't spend time alone, I don't have my hobbies. I only spent time with her, her familly and friends. Or I get some responsability for apartment or the kid. Right now, I am on a trip to home country, and I am thinking about next moves.

The first obvious question from my therapist was why I didn't mention this "my way or highway" arguments in weeks before. Answer - I saw it normal. Why? Because my ex-wife behaved the same in the first half of our relationship/marriage, before I started with therapy. She was very impulsive, controlling, distrustful. She would start breaking glasses in the apartment during an argument, then she would leave. At some point she would call me crying, asking me to come to her on that and that place. When I would be there, after she realised that my opinion still stands, she would slap me into face. I would leave, she would call, I would return, a slap... and so on. I felt like I am constantly on eggshells, I was the only provided, and she would just spend money on many different things, without thinking for the future, even for until the end of the month. Finally, after years of my insisting, she found a job, but broke after a year, had a psychotic episode, and started with risperidon. After a year she was tested in the clinic for different disorders, where she was really close to BPD diagnose - but, as I said, many of her symptoms, especially her impulses, were under control already by medicine, for a year at least.

That had two important consequences. The first, raising feeling of guilt in me, that I pushed her over the line. The second, she started with therapy and risperidon and her symptoms started melting. We didn't have such arguments anymore, she started working on some her issues, and I started my therapy. So at that moment, this became a blind spot for my therapist, as I never talked about this. It was a blind spot for my sister, as she also never saw that part of our dynamics. But the moment she asked me "why did I tolerate my new girlfriend's behavior", and I answered "because my ex behaved much worse, so it was normal to me" - the short "wait.. what?", from her, started opening a huge box. A couple of therapy sessions after, questions like "why such relationships are close to my heart", or "why do I see that normal", started to unblind some big spot for me.

I mentioned that my sister is in therapy field, and she worked 15 years on her problems and fixed a lot of damage for herself. She gave me a lot of support and recommendations for therapists. We spent nights talking about our childhood. We talked about both parents, and how they mistreated us. We largely concentrated on our father, as he has NPD, clearly visible today, more and more. But our mother was always a blind spot. We kind of looked at her as a victim - she was verbally and physically abused as child by her father, and sexually abused by a family friend, which she was afraid to talk to parents, knowing how her father would react. She married to my father, who, as mentioned, is a classic NPD, that continued that verbal torture. He was alcoholic as well (today he has diabetes, and he lost both legs), and after 16 years of marriage she finally divorced, when I begged her to do it (I was 14 at the time).

But, after one question "why do you think that you should feel guilty even when someone still mistreat you like that?", everything started to be clear. My mother was very conditional in showing her emotions, when I was a child. If I would do what she wanted, or I did something exceptional in school, or I would be sick - she would show me a positive attention. If I would not do what she liked, she would yell on me, put me in detention for hours or days, avoiding to realise even my existence for days, avoiding to talk to me. She would clearly give me a message that I hurt her. She would spill her dissatisfaction from marriage or work to me, which looked liked random bursts of rage, and built the anxious attachment for me. She would judge my friends, spill over the feeling of guilt, shame, luck of confidence. Me and my sister can't remember one weekend with our parents - they would simply gave us to our grandparents and go for a weekend with friends to play cards. When once I insisted to stay, I was in detention, to spend time in bed for the whole weekend. I was always the one to ask that couldn't join my friends in school for going to play football, video game store, etc. In many cases I felt like I should more concentrate on the needs of my mother and her acceptance, than what I really wanted to do.

As a teenager, doctors told me that I have a chronic HBV. At that time there wasn't any antiviral therapy, and all I could was to sleep well, and eat healthy food. And I did. When all of my friends enjoyed their youth, I spent time at doctors, eating food that I didn't prefer, and go to bed at 21h every night. And every single blood control showed worse results than before. But my mother never showed support and comfort in such cases - she always blamed me because of my results. Like I was doing something to make my liver enzymes worse. Every time I went to doctor, I was afraid to get bad blood results, because that would mean more rigorous regime and, even worse, more feeling of guilt. To the point that in the end I lied to my parents and everyone that I lost HBV. For a decade I spent my time in a lie, experiencing all symptoms, like pain in abdomen, but avoiding to go to doctor, to not feel anymore that guilt.

Today my HBV is under control. It took some 2 years of therapies to go to doctor and western medicine to put my misery on hold.

In my professional career, I am succesfull, in Senior Leadership of a good company. I started giving a great deal to my physical and mental health, and finally, I am again on a cross road. I think I finally broke my normalisation of feeeling guilty, from where it comes, or at least I would like to believe so. I am close to 40, I don't have kids and I don't know if I want to have them. I am afraid to be alone. I would love to have someone, but I struggle to see that someone cares from me if she is not jealous, posesive, controlling, that leave-return-slap dynamic. Obviously, I still have a lot to do on my therapies.

I am on a trip, visiting my familly, preparing for return back to break up with my current partner. One thing I know that I might feel guilty again. But I also want to explain to myself that this guilt is not mine, that I am programmed like this, and that I should finally do what I really want to do.

Do you have this feeling of guilt to the point that you forget your scars and needs, just to comfort that person? How do you deal with that?

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