being told you are crazy...

[wishingwell17]

Thanks to all of you for your words of support. I stepped back for a couple weeks in a state of denial.

My last posts were regarding speaking with him. I had ended the relationship during a non-argument time, calmly -  and he wanted to "talk" a few days later.

I was not strong enough, or something enough. I allowed myself to hear his rational voice, kindness, he was reading "the high conflict couple... .  " - all the things I love he showed me and I fell.

Fast forward a couple weeks to now (note:  I have a wicked flu and feeling very poorly):

Last night he blindsided me at 1am in the kitchen and yelled at me "WHY DO YOU ANSWER MY QUESTIONS WITH QUESTIONS!"

This was preceded with me letting him know I ran the dishwasher and watching his face to begin to change and hear him manically say "I washed them", question himself, then question me. I only said "I looked in and saw dirty dishes. Then he yelled the line above (in caps).  I turned and walked away.

He thrashed around the house for 20 minutes, I went to bed. When he came in later I said "I'm sorry for what transpired in the kitchen" He mumbled a very distorted "I'm sor... .  " not ending it.  I said "I did not hear you, did you say something?" and he loudly said "Nope."

I screwed up here: I made the mistake of reacting. I felt so sick with flu, I had no patience, my ability to withstand his 3-year old tantrum was not accessible,  I got up, gathered my things and told him I was sick of his temper. I did not do it nicely at all.  I was upset. I left and went home.

Today he called. Asked how I was feeling regarding my flu.

He continued with telling me he did not say the things I heard. That I am hearing things and this is the whole problem. I manufactured it all and am the crazy one. Maybe it was my flu, or my cold medications.

He said he was calm the whole time. This is NOT reality. He accused me of losing my temper in the kitchen(not even a little bit). He exaggerated everything I said or did x 100. I acknowledged that I did make poor choices at the end when I chose to leave, and it was not the best thing to do, but based on MY EXPERIENCE of the evening I had had enough and I needed to remove myself, I was feeling sick and needed rest. He said that is the PROBLEM. Your mind sees things which are not there and not happening, you believe you see these things, you react to ghosts and it causes all our issues.

I'm no saint. I do get upset. I do not like being lied to or manipulated. Yeah, I lose it sometimes. I do not rage though. I do not assassinate  his character. I do not go after him offensively. I rarely curse.  I am defensive, yes. But I also KNOW what I heard and exactly what I did do. I am also accountable when I screw up, he seems incapable of showing any accountability or empathy. Even when I ask him to try to remove his filters and step into my perception. He said today is is not able to see my perception because it is too twisted.

okay, seriously? This has now become really sick and feeling emotionally dangerous to me. I would not say I am upset at the moment, I feel worried for my spirit. I NEED to leave this for many reasons.  I really hope this is the straw. The difference I am feeling now to two weeks ago is I have NO DESIRE to speak with him or see him. I feel healthy in my response when he stated I was "crazy". I simply said we will need to agree to disagree. (mind you, I have "stuff", no saint but but I'm not hearing or seeing things which do not happen).

I have work to do, I know I have triggers. I know I can learn and be better. I also know I cannot do it with him. I think the "I cannot do it with him" is the key.

I'm reading all I can about NPD/BPD. On this site and others. I am recognizing myself in stories. I see where I need to go to end this and really need to get there.

I know it's up to me... but does anyone have any tips about how to break up other than the links I have read?

How did your r/s end? Did anyone have a respectful split? The only way I can think of this happening for me is he will dump me if I remain distant this week.

Not the healthiest way to go about getting what I need, but I'm not sure it matters?

[Surnia]

Wishingwell

Your story remembers me very much my own.

First of all: Trust your feelings and your reality. He seems to have a lot of controlling issues, a lot of projection. It is not easy to stick with the own perceptions during this. I think you are on a good way.

You are writing you need to leave. What prevents you to tell him it is over?

[wishingwell17]

Thank you Surnia,

Two weeks ago I found a time when all was calm and I expressed to him I no longer wanted to be in a relationship.

He said my decision was unfair because we had not worked through the book (High conflict couple) together yet.

He spent much time telling me why he wanted it to work out and we needed to try. He said he was willing to do what I had always advocated ( the books, using tools)

I caved and could not just end it. What he said was true, I had been asking for this for 4 years.

This last argument where he told me I am delusional and make things up has hit me very hard. I found a letter last night he wrote about the argument, 3 pages, where he paints me black and crazy and himself the kind, considerate, perfect person who was attacked by me. He left out his rage and his behaviors. He changed my reactions to exaggerations. It was bizarre seeing it on paper. As if this made it true?

Today I feel numb. I was at the house but had very little to say, told him I do not feel well. Which is partly true. I left early, peacefully. He can sense I am numb and holding something in.

I think I am afraid that he will tell all our friends and circle of acquaintances what the letter said; that I am bat ___ crazy, delusional and deeply messed up.

His letter scared me to the core. (He left it on his desk, right on top, by the way... .  was this more manipulation?)

I am doing one thing every day to get my things out. I have arranged a place to store my motorcycle, have a friend to help me next week.

It sounds awful but I want to get everything out except one piece of furniture. Which if I have to leave it... .  oh well.

I think two weeks ago when I stated calmly I wanted to end it I triggered something in him and now he is systematically documenting everything so he can "Prove" he was the great guy. I think not leaving then was a VERY BIG mistake and I had no idea what he is capable of and I am getting a glimpse.

I just need to get out and worry about all that later and let people who believe him... .  go too. Right?


thanks for all. 

[GettinStronger]

I have gone as far as to agree with my ex that I am the crazy one "you're right I am crazy, I need help, we shouldn't be together"  All that has done is give him something to throw at me like "even you said you were the crazy one" 

I can no longer even imagine a respectable breakup with him... .  the entire scenario is bat___ crazy .  As I type this I get a text out of the blue where he is picking up from a previous conversation and jumping right in to explain to me and negotiate how we are not breaking up... .  YEP I AM CRAZY BECAUSE OF ALL THIS MADNESS

Good luck to you dear - it's a long road, but I'm hoping my sanity is on the other side.

[gina louise]

wishingwell17 ,

all I can say is ME TOO.

together 4 years , married 2.

I got the twisted distortions to my very clear, calm statements. no raging or cussing on my end. I didn't dare!

I got the letters and e-mails detailing how he has tried to save me, save himself, save the r/s. He stated that he was the Victim and I attacked him over and over. Sure, OK- if ME cringing in the corner of the couch constituted an "attack".  Stated he had no other rational choice but to save himself by throwing me out with no money and no job.

He claimed he was was the good, kind, generous provider. Completely benevolent.

Not a word of his abusive and violent rages, lectures, projection, blaming, splitting. not a peep.

it defies reason, logic and reality. save yourself and take your time. the FOG takes time to clear.

GL

[LuckyEscapee]

In my case there was absolutely no reason why we couldn't have broken up respectfully. That was an entirely reasonable outcome. I tried to do this, I bore no ill will. I wished him well on his new journey/relationship. I accepted I was done trying to fix an unfixable relationship.

He then 100% fuelled a one-sided war and single-handedly kept fuelling his fires of hate (I solidly refused to reciprocate).

it defies reason, logic and reality

This took me a while to accept as I hold these as very important. But it is true. You cannot put your frames of reference on BPD. I felt like Alice in some hateful Wonderland, I had no idea how I had gotten there. Is is a bad nasty person? No he is ill, and that is very sad, but it is also his problem, not mine.

[tuum est61]

it defies reason, logic and reality. save yourself and take your time. the FOG takes time to clear.

GL

Gina Louise.

We all struggle with this behavior. They have BPD.  Whether we stay or leave, we have to come to some sort of terms with it.  What are some of the things you are doing to deal with it?

[gina louise]

tuum est61

I am working on myself.  I am staying away-we live over 2 hours apart now.

I only wrote my post to tell the OP she was not alone. It's been months since I experienced that first hand.

my HUSBAND is not formally dx'ed. he got a dx of bi-polar years ago.

we are divorcing but the L's say they advise MC during the separation.

I am leaning towards it, if he will go. Just for my own sake-to know I really tried all available avenues.

GL

[Surnia]

Wishingwell17

I can so relate with all this. Unfair, right/wrong, writing long letters to prove something... .  all this are not elements of healthy rs. It is in my eyes controlling behavior and difficult to deal with.

I can understand what happend that you gave in. 

I would recommend you to continue prepare your leaving. Please keep us posted!

[wanttoknowmore]

Gettingstronger,

I is so amazing that pwBPD use same type of  vocabulary. On this "I am crazy... but you are crazy too"

Mine says(during argument) " Yes. I am crazy... .  why not go find a better person ... someone who is not crazy" "I don't want to hurt you more with my crazyness... you are such a loving and caring person

... you dont deserve this craziness"  Sometimes, she will stop talking to me ... then says "why do you want to talk to a crazy person?" Its HILARIOUS ... .  what a fun... I cry and then, I laugh! Never bored.

They ae amusing... .  Isn't it?

[SarahinMA]

I know my ex thought I was crazy... half the time, I felt crazy with him.  He made comments numerous times about all women being crazy.  Conflict was looked down upon in his household, so he had always learned to hold all his emotions in.  He had the habit, though, of picking fights or saying something extremely hurtful and then withdrawing, so basically I was screaming and crying at myself.  All the while, he would just looked shocked at why I was so upset.  Extreme passive-aggressiveness and gaslighting. 

Sometimes I wish I could have controlled my anger better- less yelling and more communication, but I had no idea how to get through to him.  I guess you live and learn. 

[wishingwell17]

thanks for all the posts.

I had a phone conversation with him last night. He said things like "I'm afraid to speak with you because of your reactions"... .  

I replied with "Well, we are on the phone, so if you do not like my reaction you can hang up, right?"

In the conversation he changed his position completely from the day before. He was also beginning to escalate and raise his voice repeatedly.

He tried many times to say things which have triggered me in the past, I did not bite. I would allow silence for a moment and VERY softly state it was not my intention to upset him with my question. Then be silent again. He replied things like "YOU ARE MAKING THIS DIFFICULT ON PURPOSE". I did not respond at all.

BTW, I was doing very little talking and a lot of clarifying, which seemed to upset him.

He is CLEARLY setting me up to make me the unstable "crazy" one and do the "breaking up". The letter he left on his desk (which is just plain creepy), the way he keeps repeating over and over "I am afraid of your reaction." feels very bizarre. Experiencing projection like this is really a mind-bender for me. I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry since I just tried to end it two weeks ago and he told me we had not worked through the material, he loved me... .  don't leave him, etc.

The update is I am tentatively scheduled to go to his place tonight. He wants to discuss if we are or have ever been a match. He (now after five years) wants to know "about me" what my dreams and hopes are, what my goals and needs are... .  "

maybe it is me, but this feels VERY WEIRD and to me stinks of manipulation and self serving behaviors of wanting to erase all the abuse of the last five years by asking me these questions and showing this "fake" love and empathy in the last hour.

I photographed the letter he left out on his desk, I showed to to 3 friends. They all felt it was VERY weird and felt concerned for me and what he might be capable of doing. I am not concerned with physical violence, they are concerned that he will do something and then have these "letters" which document his being worried about my behaviors/reactions.  I believe this is all one more giant gaslight/twist. I believe it is all about his inability to face his own behaviors and he is pretending to be who he NEEDS to BELIEVE his is in order to not mentally implode.  I feel it is his way of controlling and walking away feeling he is the good guy and not abusive.


Thoughts?

[Surnia]

The update is I am tentatively scheduled to go to his place tonight. He wants to discuss if we are or have ever been a match. He (now after five years) wants to know "about me" what my dreams and hopes are, what my goals and needs are... .  "

You said yourself, it feels weird. So do you want to go to this meeting? I might be wrong, I sense some insecurity about your own perception in your lines.

[real lady]

 

The update is I am tentatively scheduled to go to his place tonight. He wants to discuss if we are or have ever been a match. He (now after five years) wants to know "about me" what my dreams and hopes are, what my goals and needs are... .  "

Hi ((wishingwell17)) I am glad to hear that HE has HIS OWN place... .  do you think that it is SAFE for you to go to his place? By some indications and your "responses", I think that this may be a "set up" and I would WARN you to consider NOT going... .  tell him you are still ill and can't go out or have anyone in... .  you need time to heal... .  

maybe it is me, but this feels VERY WEIRD and to me stinks of manipulation and self serving behaviors of wanting to erase all the abuse of the last five years by asking me these questions and showing this "fake" love and empathy in the last hour.

I am sensing the same thing... .  

I photographed the letter he left out on his desk, I showed to to 3 friends. They all felt it was VERY weird and felt concerned for me and what he might be capable of doing.

  PLEASE listen to THREE friends and anyone on this site who is encouraging you to BE SAFE and NOT see him.

I feel it is his way of controlling and walking away feeling he is the good guy and not abusive.

You can tell him all that on the phone and NOT in person... .  YOU are the bad guy and YOU can't respond to him as he needs... .  wish him luck... .  ask for your key if he has one.

PLEASE... .  PLEASE... .  THINK about what you are looking for and ASK yourself if you really think that he is TRYING to be genuine and healthy with you in any way... .  IF NOT, seeing him will accomplish nothing... .  

[gina louise]

wishingwell17

The update is I am tentatively scheduled to go to his place tonight. He wants to discuss if we are or have ever been a match. He (now after five years) wants to know "about me" what my dreams and hopes are, what my goals and needs are... .  "


this would feel very ODD and disturbing to me. As if suddenly he's deciding after 5 years he doesn't know you- and you might not be compatible?

My HUSBAND did this to me as well, very late into our 4 years together-it felt to me like the whole set of Unspoken Rules in our relationship had suddenly been thrown out. Like he was testing me very suddenly- and I was failing.

It seems like a way for them to manipulate the topic of conversation and keep the focus on YOU and not on them and their behavior.

I would refuse privacy and ONLY agree to meet in a very public place.

Did you meet with him? What happened?

GL

[tuum est61]

I believe it is all about his inability to face his own behaviors and he is pretending to be who he NEEDS to BELIEVE his is in order to not mentally implode.  I feel it is his way of controlling and walking away feeling he is the good guy and not abusive.  

WW17

Yes, this is the cause and his intent. He's protecting himself.  He is a person with BPD.  

I had a phone conversation with him last night. He said things like "I'm afraid to speak with you because of your reactions"... .  

I replied with "Well, we are on the phone, so if you do not like my reaction you can hang up, right?"

In the conversation he changed his position completely from the day before. He was also beginning to escalate and raise his voice repeatedly.

He tried many times to say things which have triggered me in the past, I did not bite. I would allow silence for a moment and VERY softly state it was not my intention to upset him with my question. Then be silent again. He replied things like "YOU ARE MAKING THIS DIFFICULT ON PURPOSE". I did not respond at all.

BTW, I was doing very little talking and a lot of clarifying, which seemed to upset him.

It would be upsetting to him since you weren't very validating regarding his fears and perceptions that you were making it difficult. Rather than "not respond at all," you may have said to him "I can understand how you might be afraid to talk to me."  Because obviously he is - as misplaced as that may be to you.

Try SET on his other complaint about you making this "difficult.". "S. I don't want this to be difficult to you." E. I can see how that would be very frustrating. T. How could we do this differently?".  Even if you are leaving, still try it.  It helps you detach from his emotions and ultimately from him - if thats your destination.

Be careful with "clarifying" - that can just be another way off trying to justify, defend, argue, or explain - JADE - is invalidating - and won't help.




I also wonder, like GL and Surnia,  about the purpose of the "discuss your goals" meeting.  Sounds like he is trying to practice some actual intimacy - isnt it too little too late?  Why would you go do this?

[wishingwell17]

hello all,

thank you very much for your concern and am very happy to inform I am not going to meet him.

He called again late this morning and claimed he did not ask me to meet him tonight (?) he said I claimed I needed time to process, which I did, and then we discussed the only day he had was Monday night after 8pm and I agreed. Just more weird forgetting, but I am grateful.

The conversation did not go well. He now claims he does not rage (this is just completely ridiculous, it has been discussed so many times) and he now claims my perception of anger is skewed and my tolerance is low therefore I am unable to have a healthy normal relationship. (my T says my tolerance is too high, and I agree with her). He was escalated during the call, very aggressive and was VERY controlling. I tried to validate his feelings.  He was very angry when we hung up, he has not called again. We have no new date to "discuss" and I am not going to make one for "discussion". 

During the call I thought to myself. I do not NEED his approval to be done. I am done now.

All that is left is to allow a week to pass which I believe will allow him to calm down and then let him know my decision.

I spoke to a friend who will assist me next week when I go pick up my things. I do not think anytime this week is a good idea as he is not regulated and very quick to yell and seems not to remember anything ( scary). I will wait till this weekend to let him know of my decision. It is no longer a discussion. It will only be about when a good time to get my bikes and few items. I can wait a couple weeks+ if this is what is necessary.

To answer your questions about his asking me now about learning about me and my goals. It is too late.

In 5 years he has not met my family, friends more than 1x each or invested anything outside of a gain for himself in me. I have repeatedly asked him to try to invest himself in my world. He has not, and in the last few months I have not asked anything of him as I started to TRY to detach. He now states I have not invited him in, he is not wrong there, for the last few months I have not.

He did claim he was trying with me, and  do think he was in his way. But even with his best efforts he is unable to empathize or regulate his anger.

And what is very toxic for me is he makes me his scapegoat for both deficiencies. And, if I am honest I may be toxic to him in my inability to be the partner his BPD requires for feeling well or keeping more balanced.

He has gotten worse in the last few months and in response my nerves are fried, I'm on edge and I felt like my spirit weighs a ton.

tuum est61 :

thanks for the reminders. I will reread the SET tools just in case they are required during our communication. I will focus on getting out as quietly as possible. I AM the bad guy to him and nothing I say will change the mechanisms of how he perceives me.


THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH for your support, your input, insight, suggestions and care.

It will get better, one day at a time.   

[Surnia]

Ww

I am glad in a way that the meeting wasn't. I had so mixed feelings about that.

During the call I thought to myself. I do not NEED his approval to be done. I am done now.

Good you have support from a friend to pick up your things. And yes, it will get better. You do something for you and this will help to get over it.

[real lady]

hello all,

thank you very much for your concern and am very happy to inform I am not going to meet him.

  thanks for letting us know that YOU ARE SAFE... .  

He was very angry when we hung up, he has not called again. We have no new date to "discuss" and I am not going to make one for "discussion". 

Of course, you did not satisfy his need to be right and let him deal with himself. He couldn't make you accept the blame for his behavior. You did good.

During the call I thought to myself. I do not NEED his approval to be done. I am done now.

All that is left is to allow a week to pass which I believe will allow him to calm down and then let him know my decision.

If you are living apart... .  don't you think that IF he would have been listening that he would KNOW that you "are done?"... .  why bother telling him... .  just say "You are right, I see you in ways that obviously you are not, I am not good for you. I release you and hope that you find someone who is much better than me who will love and care for you even better than I did... .  I will say goodbye now".

I spoke to a friend who will assist me next week when I go pick up my things.

I think that TAKING A FRIEND with you is a GOOD idea... .  you may also want a police officer there to "keep the peace"... .  

I can wait a couple weeks+ if this is what is necessary.

get them when he is not home and leave the key if it is his home... .  

He has gotten worse in the last few months and in response my nerves are fried, I'm on edge and I felt like my spirit weighs a ton.

Then it looks like it will NOT be getting better. Any contact can be MORE volatile now... .  be careful. NC  is best... .  say goodbye in a note.

[wishingwell17]

real lady:

If you are living apart... .  don't you think that IF he would have been listening that he would KNOW that you "are done?"... .  why bother telling him... .  just say "You are right, I see you in ways that obviously you are not, I am not good for you. I release you and hope that you find someone who is much better than me who will love and care for you even better than I did... .  I will say goodbye now".

thank you. he did call late last night. It was a very short call, less than five minutes. He stated he did not want to leave it as he did earlier, just hanging up.

I said "Okay. You said you had much work to do, were running very late and had not slept and were tired, I did not expect to hear from you."

He stumbled with his word and said "yes, this is true."

He said "I have a lot of things to say". I responded with "I understand you have a lot of things to say, I also understand you are very tired and have much work to do, perhaps this is not a good time."

He stumbled in his words again and then after a long silence said "Yes, I think not talking now is a good decision."

He said "good night". I did the same and hung up.


I will not meet him in person, I have made plans every night this week through friday beginning tonight in order to be busy with a friend or at the gym and not lie.

Yes, if he had been listening he would have heard me. But I didn't  use the words "I'm done." In this he may still feel there is a crack in my armor.

Or it would not surprise me if he is in the "victim" mode and has taken the "I'm afraid to say anything... .  " stance. It has gone both ways in the past.

However, in the past I was not ready to leave the r/s and I tried to find solutions to heal us. I am not doing this at all this time.

Your words are good and I will memorize them for when we do "talk" which I suspect he will not wait past Saturday and I will request be on the phone. 

Just a note about the police. His ex wife threatened the police on him (I found out by reading some info recently about his divorce. This was not fair of me to look into, but I did it and learned enough to give me conviction this time - and I felt like I was reading about OUR relationship). I think this would be viewed as too strong of a reaction and might trigger him. The friend I am bringing with me is a friend from childhood. She has a double black belt in karate.  He is aware of her skills and her very balanced and healthy personality. If he knows someone is watching he will be his "public" self.  Please know I will not hesitate to call the police if there is a threat to my person, however I do not believe it will go there. 

Thank you all for your help and advice. I will keep you posted.

And, I will surely be in here a lot as I read, learn and process all which has surfaced for me during this r/s and heal.