If no one is above this disorder, does that mean that all his relationships will fail?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

If no one is above this disorder, does that mean that all his relationships will fail? Unless/until he gets the proper treatment?

Won't this mean he will distroy ALL of these peoples lives? Do they ever hit bottom and realize they need help?

[Simpleone]

If no one is above this disorder, does that mean that all his relationships will fail? Unless/until he gets the proper treatment?

Won't this mean he will distroy ALL of these peoples lives? Do they ever hit bottom and realize they need help?

[OTH]

If no one is above this disorder, does that mean that all his relationships will fail? Unless/until he gets the proper treatment?

Won't this mean he will distroy ALL of these peoples lives? Do they ever hit bottom and realize they need help?

Yes some hit rock bottom. That is when they tend to get help or attempt suicide. Remember it takes two to engage in a dysfunctional r/s. His relatives may keep healthy boundaries. People who get to see the sick side are the ones he tries to form more intimate relationships with. The sickness often lies hidden until triggered.

[htl67]

I think there are some personalities that are better suited to deal with pwBPD, and don't forget that she may be quite unhealthy herself. You're an emotionally healthy, loving, caring woman. That's why it couldn't work with you for an extended period of time. Be glad for that!

[whitedoe]

I think there are some personalities that are better suited to deal with pwBPD, and don't forget that she may be quite unhealthy herself. You're an emotionally healthy, loving, caring woman. That's why it couldn't work with you for an extended period of time. Be glad for that!

Thank you, htl67... .I needed your comments... .His BDay is this Saturday and I'm having such a rough time with this... .Feeling so down... .

I'll remain NC... .but I ache inside... .I don't understand myself in all of this? I know "intellectually" that he is seriously mentally ill yet, why I am continuing to be "hooked in" and suffering? He is long gone and honestly couldn't care less... .Why can't I just "accept" and move on? Why do I continue to believe that I had some "unique and special connection" with this man... .when I know that it was all "idealization"... .I was nothing more than an "object" to this man... .Aghh... .Slow to catch on?

I'm so grateful for this site!

[estee]

I have now learned through people on this site and my own therapist, that the person afflicted with BPD cannot really love in the conventional sense.  Their actions are all about them, even when they are acts of kindness or apparent selflessness, all geared at achieving a particular response in us.  Therefore, I can relate to simpleone's feelings that the keepsakes are nothing more than a hurtful reminder of an enormous emotional sham.  I can see how one could view such items as nothing more than objects of deceipt and manipulation.  How do you reconcile this apparent dichotomy?

I'm going to repeat here something that I posted on another string on this site. I'm doing so because I still feel tormented by the "dichotemy" that desertbuck is talking about. Perhaps that's why I can't delete photos of us from my computer hard drive. I think it's unfair that he should take from me what was a sincere, honest and adult relationship on my part (that even included a healthy does of skepticism about his adoration for me).

So here's the thing: I'm very familiar with mental illness. In my family and among friends I've been exposed to clinical depression and OCD. And I have an older sister who is a very low-functioning schizophrenic. She hears voices, she is self-centered, she gets deeply depressed. But she has never been cruel to me and has a great capacity for love. I've never experienced a mental illness like BPD that makes someone so cold, cruel and without empathy. Even in my own suffering at some very, very low points in my life, I never lost compassion for other people (if anything, I lacked it for myself.) Yes, it gives me some solace to say, "he's mentally ill and he couldn't help his horrible behavior" but in doing so I then have to accept something that is more difficult: that if the "bad parts" were about his illness then the "good parts" were too. If didn't have any control over his cruelty then he also didn't have any control over or mean the warm and loving things that he did and said. I have a hard time with that for two reasons: 1) That makes me a black and white thinker 2) and that makes him sub-human.

And if he's a monster who completely used me, then I have to loathe someone who I truly cared about and paint him black in order to deal with my emotional pain. And I think we all know what kind of person does that: someone with BPD! In other words, I have to be a little BPD in order to heal from a BPD relationship. It's terribly ironic. And I mean terribly in the truest sense.

[once removed]

estee,

i don't think everything has to be processed here and now. give yourself some time. what you dont and can't understand can wait. that doesn't mean repress it. but things will get clearer coming out of the fog.

i don't think you do need such lack and white thinking. yes i agree you have to accept, in general, if the bad was part of the disorder, so was the good. but that ignores that they are human beings, they DO have feelings, they do have genuine moments, etc. it's hard to say what was "real". what is certain is that they WANTED it to be real, and it was real at the time. the problem is it wasn't sustainable. that doesn't mean they never gave us anything from the heart, or even from the "thought". think about all the intimate details you shared with each other. what wasn't real about that? unless of course they lied over their own intimate details. he isn't a monster. he's like an emotionally underdeveloped child.

[estee]

Thank you, Luckystrikes, for your comment. It has brought me to tears. My post actually came from a feeling I was getting from other posts on this site in which people seem to be saying that the only way to get past this is to see their ex as monsters or less than human (by which I mean without sincerity at all). And I've been having a really hard time with that... .the harshness of it (which, I think, is how BPDs view most people). I actually don't feel that way about my ex and sometimes feel pressured by friends and people posting here to try to feel that way.

So many people make statements like "BPDs don't miss you, never meant what they said, etc." and that has been really throwing me because, as I explained, it sounds like the kind of black and white thinking that we hated in our exes. I've always seen life as gray and I don't want to turn into a different kind of person because of this experience. I won't!

I think most people with mental illness have experienced fierce cruelty somewhere in their lives (many as tiny children) and I feel A LOT of compassion for them. So many friends have also encouraged me to just write him off as a bad, abusive boyfriend. But, unlike other relationships that just didn't work out and may have ended very sadly, this relationship was compounded by mental illness. I've felt both incredible anger and incredible compassion for him... .and for myself. So what I'm saying is that it feels better to hear from someone who isn't just saying things like stay N/C and "he never meant anything he said" and "just move on from this nightmare" with this horrible person. The moving on part is correct and I've been N/C from day one of our break up, and it has been nightmarish. But I still loved this person and believe him to be very much human. My heart aches for him when I read poems and essays by people with BPD. Sometimes I just feel so angry that this beautiful person is so tormented and that I have been deprived of even the opportunity to have a future with him. I know I have to believe that there is someone else out there for me who will love me in the ways I loved to be loved by him but will also be capable of true intimacy, which I think he wanted but was not capable of. So sad.

Thank you, too, for pointing out that I don't have to figure this out all at once. I'm making progress over time and am learning to give myself mental breaks. I came back to this site after quite some time of not visiting for just that reason. I had to take a break and then these feelings of anger and confusion resurfaced in a bigger way. Probably because it's my birthday weekend and that was our first time away with each other one year ago.

[Auspicious]

So many people make statements like "BPDs don't miss you, never meant what they said, etc." and that has been really throwing me because, as I explained, it sounds like the kind of black and white thinking that we hated in our exes. I've always seen life as gray and I don't want to turn into a different kind of person because of this experience. I won't!

That's a good insight

As with pwBPD, we can be tempted use anger and B&W thinking as a coping mechanism too. It feels safer than admitting that we are hurt. Failed relationships hurt   

[LaoWho]

estee,

i don't think everything has to be processed here and now. give yourself some time. what you dont and can't understand can wait. that doesn't mean repress it. but things will get clearer coming out of the fog.

i don't think you do need such lack and white thinking. yes i agree you have to accept, in general, if the bad was part of the disorder, so was the good. but that ignores that they are human beings, they DO have feelings, they do have genuine moments, etc. it's hard to say what was "real". what is certain is that they WANTED it to be real, and it was real at the time. the problem is it wasn't sustainable. that doesn't mean they never gave us anything from the heart, or even from the "thought". think about all the intimate details you shared with each other. what wasn't real about that? unless of course they lied over their own intimate details. he isn't a monster. he's like an emotionally underdeveloped child.

I Agree estee,

I think luckystrikes' rendering of the relationship dynamic is one of the most concise and thoughtful that I've ever come across. Such an understanding can only come from compassion, and maybe it's important to understand that this requisite and inevitable expansion of compassion in we who've had to heal from a BPD relationship is tied to the awareness we've had to learn. In short, we now have to live in a much bigger world than we knew before, one that is much more shaded and ultimately more colorful.

LW

[once removed]

Thank you, Luckystrikes, for your comment. It has brought me to tears. My post actually came from a feeling I was getting from other posts on this site in which people seem to be saying that the only way to get past this is to see their ex as monsters or less than human (by which I mean without sincerity at all). And I've been having a really hard time with that... .the harshness of it (which, I think, is how BPDs view most people). I actually don't feel that way about my ex and sometimes feel pressured by friends and people posting here to try to feel that way.

So many people make statements like "BPDs don't miss you, never meant what they said, etc." and that has been really throwing me because, as I explained, it sounds like the kind of black and white thinking that we hated in our exes. I've always seen life as gray and I don't want to turn into a different kind of person because of this experience. I won't!

I think most people with mental illness have experienced fierce cruelty somewhere in their lives (many as tiny children) and I feel A LOT of compassion for them. So many friends have also encouraged me to just write him off as a bad, abusive boyfriend. But, unlike other relationships that just didn't work out and may have ended very sadly, this relationship was compounded by mental illness. I've felt both incredible anger and incredible compassion for him... .and for myself. So what I'm saying is that it feels better to hear from someone who isn't just saying things like stay N/C and "he never meant anything he said" and "just move on from this nightmare" with this horrible person. The moving on part is correct and I've been N/C from day one of our break up, and it has been nightmarish. But I still loved this person and believe him to be very much human. My heart aches for him when I read poems and essays by people with BPD. Sometimes I just feel so angry that this beautiful person is so tormented and that I have been deprived of even the opportunity to have a future with him. I know I have to believe that there is someone else out there for me who will love me in the ways I loved to be loved by him but will also be capable of true intimacy, which I think he wanted but was not capable of. So sad.

Thank you, too, for pointing out that I don't have to figure this out all at once. I'm making progress over time and am learning to give myself mental breaks. I came back to this site after quite some time of not visiting for just that reason. I had to take a break and then these feelings of anger and confusion resurfaced in a bigger way. Probably because it's my birthday weekend and that was our first time away with each other one year ago.

no, no no. the only way to get through this is to let yourself feel. you will have a lot of conflicting thoughts and feelings about your ex. welcome, and feel, and process all of them. if you find yourself stumbling on a more acute thought that's significantly more painful, or that you're resistant to processing, try rethinking the thought in a healthier way. if you DO find yourself thinking your ex is a monster, that's okay too. i can't tell you how many times DURING the relationship that i told my ex she was a monster. anger is just fine, it's a healthy part of the process, but you can't force it, and it's not a healthy defense mechanism to just cling to, to avoid other feelings. i tried. most of us have. the more you learn about BPD, but more importantly, the more you learn and work on yourself, the clearer it will all become, the more it will sink in, the more you will be able to depersonalize his actions.

certainly, no one here can speak for a borderline. there are a few unfortunate universal truths, and sometimes those are broadly applied and grossly, unnecessarily, sometimes painfully simplified. after the break up i found myself repeatedly asking my mother (before we found out about BPD) if she was REALLY over me, if she had/could REALLY move on, was she even thinking about me? this was mostly because of the nature of these kind of breakups and what they do to a person. common sense would dictate "of course not, of course not, of course" but that would be logical, and again, it's not that simple. what my mom did say, and what i think it safely boils down to, is "no one emerges unscathed from a three year (in my case) relationship." what your ex is thinking and feeling and experiencing is some complex sht. and i'll warn you, you're likely to experience a lot of it yourself. but you're going to survive it, and emerge. your ex will not. and he will remain disordered.

no, your friends and that may include your family don't and can't understand. it can be frustrating and it can make you feel isolated. choose who you talk to, and about what, carefully. share what you know and have learned. do not expect them to be able to give what they can't give though, or you will only resent them, and feel a heightened sense of frustration, maybe even shame. you're not "just having a tough time". this is a real trauma. it's going to have a profound effect on you. do not feel pressured to move faster than you can. i can't stress that enough. you need to heal. consider sharing the resource articles on here with your closest and most understanding confidants. and remember what this board is for. everyone here knows and understands what you've been through and what you're going through. your story is ours. you should feel compassion for him. that's good. it makes for healthy healing. and it's based very much in reality. along with gaining more knowledge about the disorder, and depersonalizing, compassion also dissipates the anger.

to address the black and white thinking again, whether "the relationship was a lie", whether "any of it was real", whether he "didn't mean anything", etc. fact: most borderlines tell lies. a lot of them. some are more like "lies", in the sense that they really believe or perceive them. they're based on all sorts of things, or they're a reaction to all sorts of things. they have to tell those lies, though. generally speaking, it is to 'save themselves' be it psychologically, or from being exposed, or caught, or what have you. it's not really that they're con artists who scheme or do it maliciously. although, some of them make excellent con artists, and some of them do appear to do some serious scheming. they are not "lying" when they say i love you. we can argue all day about how they mean it, and what it means to them, and what it means to us. im not sure anyone really knows. we all love differently anyway. again, the problem is whatever the felt, they could not sustain it. you could not sustain them. primarily because of object constancy issues, their own black and white thinking, and abandonment and engulfment fears. if you decide that this means it was not "true love", then that is for you to decide. only you know this person and the relationship. just make sure you also know the disorder. see it through their eyes, and it will give you better insight and acceptance of what was "real". you will probably find as i have, there were things that occurred in your relationship that, although i hate to simplify it like this, for lack of a better word, weren't "real". they did mirror us. some of the expressions of love were projections, or in reality, what they wanted to hear from us. some of that's normal, mind you. most of us have said "i love you" because we wanted to hear it back.

the most important thing you said, and a sign of your own healing, is that there is someone out there for you who can love you the right way, and sustain it. it's as true as the pain we're feeling now, and the fact that we're going to emerge stronger from it. you deserve it, and you will have it.

[once removed]

and thank you laowho, that's quite a compliment.

[htl67]

But I still loved this person and believe him to be very much human. My heart aches for him when I read poems and essays by people with BPD. Sometimes I just feel so angry that this beautiful person is so tormented and that I have been deprived of even the opportunity to have a future with him. I know I have to believe that there is someone else out there for me who will love me in the ways I loved to be loved by him but will also be capable of true intimacy, which I think he wanted but was not capable of. So sad.

Hi Estee, I feel this way too about my xuBPDbf. It's tragic and heartbreaking to know that the one thing he desperately wants - a close, intimate rship with someone, is the very thing he is not capable of ever having - without help. I think everyone just processes the pain of these types of rships differently, and to be able to move on, some people may need to view the pwBPD as monsters - to each his own. There were times when I viewed mine as a monster, and I can't honestly say that there may not be times when I'm in that place again, but for me, it's always temporary, and when I'm in a good place with myself emotionally, I always come back to the love and compassion that I feel for him.

 

[vhammer1]

I got to looking through this post and saw someone bring up "the BPD eyes" and I think this is where you will find answers to your questions about sensitivity, or if they actually cared about you. What I finally remember is that I spent a long time staring into my ex's eyes, at the time I thought she had gorgeous eyes. They were green with gold streaks, but there was something else I couldn't quite put my finger on... .until now.

There was nothing there, or there was intense fear and anger. When she was happy, her face was happy, but her eyes registered nothing. The black hole that is someone with BPD begins with the eyes, and the minute that you stare into those "gorgeous" eyes you have actually crossed the event horizon. Seriously, go back and really recall what it was like looking into those eyes and remember what it felt like to know there was nothing looking back.

In time you will thank your concept of god for giving you this learning experience.

[Noob]

Eh, who cares. Whether they loved us, whether they are capable of "real" love.   

The question is, are we ready to love ourselves? Enough so that when someone treats us "less than", tries to use us as a puppet for their disorder, can we be willing to say, "nope, not it" and walk, run, or whatever our preferred means of ambulation might be... .AWAY.

That is the kind of sensitivity that now matters.

[Firelite]

I remember laying in bed that night thinking that I honestly didn’t know what was more painful to me in that moment – losing my beloved dog or that fact that this man that I believed loved me, could be so selfish and insensitive towards me at a time when I needed him most?

I feel for you.  I had a similar incident with my exBPDbf but it involved my 23-year-old daughter who was in hospital in another city (1 1/2 hour drive) having just been diagnosed with Crohn's.  She was not responding to conventional therapy, had 2 blood transfusions and was down to 80 pounds. My friends and co-workers constantly offered to drive with me on my many trips to be with her.  My ex only went once.  He was unsupportive, acted aloof and complained about feeling stiff from the ride when we returned.  He was totally insensitive and made me feel like I had put him out.  The one person I thought I could depend on for unconditional love and encouragement in my time of need, was not there.  My crying shoulder was not there.  For the duration of her hospitalization, I never asked him to accompany me again.  In hindsight, at that point I should have seen the writing on the wall, read it in his big blue vacant eyes.  I should have ended it then.   Yes he was an "emotionally underdeveloped child."    

[Caspian]

I deleted all the emails, and left him with everything that had to do with him: pictures, clothes he bought me, momentos- everything. Since the relationship was false, why hold on to any items?

I've struggled a LOT with this during the course of my breakup.  It's still fairly fresh.  The best that I can figure is that relationships with people like this aren't inherently false because they're real at the time.  I've read a lot on the message boards and one thing sticks out to me as being poignant: fact = feeling to them.  Our relationships with them were fact... .at the time.  Maybe that's the fickle nature of the disorder?  Unfortunately, for us the relationship was fact all of the time because it was reality.  We all have our own issues, but for people like us, we now have to deal with the emotional fallout of someone with d or u BPD amongst other issues.  Mine also has diagnosed combat-related PTSD.

I was with my uBPD exbf for 5.5 years until just 2 weeks ago he decided that he'd rather be with someone much less awesome.  I say that for a reason and not because I'm self-inflated.  She's 10 years older than he (he's 31), has no job, almost lost her home 5 days prior to meeting him, has 3 kids, and was involved with someone else during the course of their abrupt hook up.  Within 2 weeks, my also jobless uBPD exbf had asked her to marry him and completely changed his personality to suit her Histrionic personality.  His family finally realizes something is wrong with him because of his manic and abrupt shift.  He traded down in an epic way (I have a BS in clin psych and will be getting my Ph.D. and I've treated him like gold for 5.5 years).  The point is that, to him, this relationship is now reality and I am just another person in his past despite the hard times we went through and his professions of love and adoration.  He tried for two months prior to this to get me pregnant (I mean PUSHED) because he said we were running out of time. I'm lucky, thank God.  Further, he refuses to speak to his own 11 year old daughter because she stood him up one day while we were in her city for a conference.  Yes, that hurts, but she's 11.  This was in January.  It's May and he'll still barely speak with her.  Not sensitive in the slightest.

Anyway, I think sensitivity takes a back seat to these people because they're only sensitive to their misguided wants and needs.  Maybe it's a sort of 'people exist to make me feel less miserable' kind of thing?  I don't know.  All I know is that, in a sense, we're lucky because we are no longer subjected to their mania, mood swings, splitting, and all out crazy.  We have our lives back, for better or worse.  I say this now, but I'm sure I'll get misty eyed later this evening.  One day at a time.  I no longer expect sensitivity from mine because it doesn't exist.  Instead, I pray, talk to friends and family, see a therapist, and am sensitive to my own needs and wants.  Maybe try being sensitive to yourself and it might help?  These people are broken in an inherent way and the only thing that will help them is long-term therapy.  We try to relate and understand our situations the only way we know how: sanely with logic and cause/effect reasoning.  That includes being sensitive to others needs.  It cannot be done in situations like these.  My final advice/thoughts: take care of you because you matter!

[whitedoe]

I deleted all the emails, and left him with everything that had to do with him: pictures, clothes he bought me, momentos- everything. Since the relationship was false, why hold on to any items?

I've struggled a LOT with this during the course of my breakup.  It's still fairly fresh.  The best that I can figure is that relationships with people like this aren't inherently false because they're real at the time.  I've read a lot on the message boards and one thing sticks out to me as being poignant: fact = feeling to them.  Our relationships with them were fact... .at the time.  Maybe that's the fickle nature of the disorder?  Unfortunately, for us the relationship was fact all of the time because it was reality.  We all have our own issues, but for people like us, we now have to deal with the emotional fallout of someone with d or u BPD amongst other issues.  Mine also has diagnosed combat-related PTSD.

I was with my uBPD exbf for 5.5 years until just 2 weeks ago he decided that he'd rather be with someone much less awesome.  I say that for a reason and not because I'm self-inflated.  She's 10 years older than he (he's 31), has no job, almost lost her home 5 days prior to meeting him, has 3 kids, and was involved with someone else during the course of their abrupt hook up.  Within 2 weeks, my also jobless uBPD exbf had asked her to marry him and completely changed his personality to suit her Histrionic personality.  His family finally realizes something is wrong with him because of his manic and abrupt shift.  He traded down in an epic way (I have a BS in clin psych and will be getting my Ph.D. and I've treated him like gold for 5.5 years).  The point is that, to him, this relationship is now reality and I am just another person in his past despite the hard times we went through and his professions of love and adoration.  He tried for two months prior to this to get me pregnant (I mean PUSHED) because he said we were running out of time. I'm lucky, thank God.  Further, he refuses to speak to his own 11 year old daughter because she stood him up one day while we were in her city for a conference.  Yes, that hurts, but she's 11.  This was in January.  It's May and he'll still barely speak with her.  Not sensitive in the slightest.

Anyway, I think sensitivity takes a back seat to these people because they're only sensitive to their misguided wants and needs.  Maybe it's a sort of 'people exist to make me feel less miserable' kind of thing?  I don't know.  All I know is that, in a sense, we're lucky because we are no longer subjected to their mania, mood swings, splitting, and all out crazy.  We have our lives back, for better or worse.  I say this now, but I'm sure I'll get misty eyed later this evening.  One day at a time.  I no longer expect sensitivity from mine because it doesn't exist.  Instead, I pray, talk to friends and family, see a therapist, and am sensitive to my own needs and wants.  Maybe try being sensitive to yourself and it might help?  These people are broken in an inherent way and the only thing that will help them is long-term therapy.  We try to relate and understand our situations the only way we know how: sanely with logic and cause/effect reasoning.  That includes being sensitive to others needs.  It cannot be done in situations like these.  My final advice/thoughts: take care of you because you matter!

His loss.  You sound awesome.

Yes, agreed! It is totally his loss, Caspian... .And yes, there is NO sensitivity in these pwBPD. I think I will forever struggle to get my head around their painful selfishness and total lack of any empathy and sensitivity... .Mind boggling to me even after knowing the diagnosis... .Thanks for posting your thoughts!

WhiteDoe

[whitedoe]

I got to looking through this post and saw someone bring up "the BPD eyes" and I think this is where you will find answers to your questions about sensitivity, or if they actually cared about you. What I finally remember is that I spent a long time staring into my ex's eyes, at the time I thought she had gorgeous eyes. They were green with gold streaks, but there was something else I couldn't quite put my finger on... .until now.

There was nothing there, or there was intense fear and anger. When she was happy, her face was happy, but her eyes registered nothing. The black hole that is someone with BPD begins with the eyes, and the minute that you stare into those "gorgeous" eyes you have actually crossed the event horizon. Seriously, go back and really recall what it was like looking into those eyes and remember what it felt like to know there was nothing looking back.

In time you will thank your concept of god for giving you this learning experience.

Thank you for posting this about the "BPD" eyes... .Yes, in our r/s, as I began to be "aware" of them, I found it "painful" (for the want of a better word) and confusing to look back at him when his eyes were "strangely off", "glazed" looking... .almost as though he were looking "through me". I saw these "glazed BPD eyes" mostly when we were making love... .But, I also saw those "BPD eyes" when he was under a lot of stress,... .and of course, the weekend he dumped me his eyes were "glazed" much of the time... .It was "chilling" to see the transition in him. I turned away from him when his eyes "glazed over" while we made love. It was so confusing as the sexual intimacy "felt" wonderful but his "glazed eyes" didn't match with the experience... He looked "vacant"... .Aghhh... .

Now, I am struggling with so much heartache realizing that while I was loving him with all my heart and soul, he was likely "dissociated"... .I was not loved and adored at all. I was an "object" used to obtain his sexual pleasure. I feel "sick inside" as I remember back to the "eyes" ... .now knowing what that was all about. I gave so much of myself to this man, ... .I now feel like fool... .

Yes, I see your point about those "BPD eyes" and their lack of sensitivity... .I hadn't put that together, vhammer1... .Very good insight! Yes, good for me to think about when I go "back and forth" with denial/ acceptance... .and spinning in confusion... .Those "BPD eyes" are something I will never forget as long as I live... .

Yes, I am very open to God's lesson for me in all of this pain and suffering... .I was literally traumatized by this ordeal. Everyday gets better and I am so grateful for this site but, I wouldn't wish this pain on anyone... .not ever... .

And also, I will always pray that my exBPDbf find a competent therapist to help him find his way out of this horrific mental illness... .

[2010]

I was with my uBPD exbf for 5.5 years until just 2 weeks ago he decided that he'd rather be with someone much less awesome.  I say that for a reason and not because I'm self-inflated.  She's 10 years older than he (he's 31), has no job, almost lost her home 5 days prior to meeting him, has 3 kids, and was involved with someone else during the course of their abrupt hook up. He traded down in an epic way (I have a BS in clin psych and will be getting my Ph.D. and I've treated him like gold for 5.5 years).

When you feel like this- involving your comparisons with another woman- stop yourself and realize that you are setting yourself up to live a Karpmann Drama Triangle. Keeping the drama going becomes more important to the players and it's a way of remaining involved in dysfunction. If you would devalue your ex instead of his new objectified rescuer- you'd have a better chance at coming through this phase (and it is a phase we all went through) to get at the truth of this 5.5 year partnership.

Comparing yourself with her is just another way to distance yourself from his disorder while keeping him in power. Thinking of yourself as the clear choice of a disordered person's belief about their own happiness is not doing anything other than furthering your denial of the disorder. You've got to devalue him instead of her and appreciate the severity of Borderline thought. Anything else and you are headed down the road of vulnerable narcissism. (I am an vulnerable narcissist, so I know the belief system)

So let's just say, this isn't co-dependency that you suffer from-it's vulnerable narcissism. Altruism is selfless concern for the welfare of others. Altruism is the opposite of selfishness. Altruism focuses on a motivation to help others or a want to do good without reward.  Pure altruism is giving without regard to reward or the benefits of recognition and need.  

"Altruistic" Narcissism, on the other hand, is self concern for the welfare of others. Vulnerable Narcissism is the perception of self-sacrifice.  It focuses on a motivation to help others or a want to do good *with reward*  Vulnerable Narcissism is giving with regard to reward or the benefits of recognition and need. Vulnerable Narcissists feel a sense of moral obligation and duty to help others in order to feel better about themselves. They are rescuers and rescuers need victims.

There is a subtle and powerful seduction in being a powerless Victim. Besides being a great way to elicit pity and assistance from others, the role of Victim lets a person believe that they are not responsible (i.e. able to respond) to what is going on in their life without others helping them.  Often, the victim becomes the star of the drama and this feeds the victim-hood. It becomes a permanent position. This position lets the victim avoid responsibility for their life, since, as far as they are concerned, they will always attract rescuers to help.  That's where vulnerable narcissists come into play.

Triangulation (read definition) in relationships (the arrival of a third party) moves the rescuer (that's you) to persecutor to victim around and around. It solves nothing but creates drama which fuels the disordered belief system of the Borderline victim. Triangulation (read definition) is also a way of determining someone's role in the drama using the roles of other people.  Is he a victim of her? or is she a victim of him? Is he rescuing her? or is she rescuing him? Are you persecuting them both or just her? The drama rules the player's movement.

If you are not yet ready to let go of him- I would highly recommend staying off the facebook site and looking at their photos.  You will only hurt yourself with comparisons that do not, I repeat, *do not* matter to a disorder. This isn't about how great you were and his refusal to acknowledge your sensitivity- it is about a disorder. There is no winner here.  She does not get what you always wanted. The disorder needs your respect. You did not cause it, you cannot control it and you cannot cure it. Look away and prepare yourself for healing. Block them.

Have a read on the Drama Triangle. It is one of the most enlightening things to uncover about a BPD's victim-hood and how they manipulate others. It also helps to identify yourself in the game. As they say, the only way to win -is not to play.

www.therapyideas.net/triangles.htm

[once removed]

i dont want to preach, or open up a religious conversation that offends anybody or anything, but looking for gods lesson is something i've struggled with as well.

god definitely has a lesson, probably more than one. they will not all be clear now, perhaps not for many many years. some of them will be. some of them wont be subtle at all.

you can assume, for starters, that god is working through us, to purify us by fire more or less. this is a time for serious healing, spiritual healing included. this is a time for us to grow much closer to god than we have before. we're more or less "alone" right now, with no one BUT god. if our relationship with god has been lacking, that is probably a factor. god was also saving us and rescuing us from our relationships when he did. the bible says god will not give us more than we can handle. we've probably all felt like he has. he hasn't. we're still alive. and he's still at work. we can't see that now. but we can know he is.

one of my lessons was NOT to be SO certain that "this is what god intends for me." that is what i told myself repeatedly during the relationship. why would god want me to suffer such stress and mental anguish? i knew better. i know what god has in store for me. that's a healthy, happy relationship that thrives with him at the helm. (although this doesn't necessarily mean that that relationship will not involve tremendous sacrifice, suffering, etc. people that have children with downs syndrome, for example.)

before all this, i had one opinion of my previous 3 BPD exes. i did not look back on them with fondness. i looked back on them as mistakes. i KNEW better, than to get with any of them. but i did it anyway. this was during high school, and the experiences absolutely ruined me. i had no mental capacity, i was mentally exhausted, depressed, confidence and self esteem battered, etc. i could have remained single. i could have done GREAT in school. i could have kept a more normal sleep schedule. healthier habits. felt better. had better times, made better and more friends. i could have dated normal girls, had more normal, healthier experiences. what in the WORLD did getting with these stupid girls that i knew better than to get with do me but ruin my life?

well, i've learned an AWFUL lot about myself, for starters. things i clearly needed to learn. i've helped people on these boards. perhaps im going to be able to help others down the road. perhaps my own children. it has definitely pushed me further toward the idea of entertaining becoming a counselor of some sorts.

perhaps i helped in some way, every BPD girl i've dated. perhaps i brought them closer to healing or getting recovery. would that alone be worth it? hard to say at this point, but yes, i think so. my recent ex was an avowed atheist when we got together. she became a prayer during our relationship. she came to believe in and begin to trust god. she would ask me things about jesus that i saw as her hearts longing to know him. if the ONLY lesson at all, was that i could bring my ex closer to god, that alone is worth it.

god has definitely made it clearer what i ought to be looking for, and expecting in a relationship. my standards have been raised significantly, and it is far clearer to me what i really deserve. this has helped me to trust him like never before. as i said, not everything is subtle. the night we had our ambiguous breakup, i had been 5 days out of kicking a 6 year long habit of serious sleeping pill abuse. of course my instinct was to gobble them down, but i didn't. the test of faith was just too obvious. i don't know how i made it through that night, but i did. infact i didn't sleep for 40 hours. i am stronger now, and i have not touched the sleeping pills in the 3 months since.

i don't think the lesson is don't trust. it's who to trust and how to trust, and what trust is, when it's broken, etc. it's learning boundaries. we do not want to become those with guarded hearts. we want to be able to love more fully, feel more joy, and spread and share it. there is sorrow in our hearts. those things are impossible, with sorrow in our hearts. we don't want to hide ourselves or learn defense mechanisms or shield positive influences. we dont want to close off. but that doesn't negate the need for boundaries. it does not mean allow a disordered person into your life, to corrupt all of that. that's not what give someone the shirt off your back or turn the other cheek means.

god clearly wants me to learn the lesson of having gotten myself into dating 4 of these people. what about me attracts them and what about them attracts me. the underlying issues of my own. how else am i supposed to heal, and how else am i supposed to present myself to "the one" when the time comes?

bottom line, i don't have the answer. i think god expects us to learn a LOT of things from this. some of them he will perhaps not reveal for many years. maybe a decade. maybe two decades. but a lot of things. some of them obvious. focusing on him, and those lessons, and trusting and having faith in him, being CERTAIN that he is purifying us and making something more of us through all of this, is key. he has amazing things in store for us. but there is a point and a lesson in all of this, "mistake" (on our parts) or not. it was not pointless. it was not a waste. he will reveal things about himself to us, and reveal things about ourselves to us.

think of this as growing pains.

[Caspian]

If you are not yet ready to let go of him- I would highly recommend staying off the facebook site and looking at their photos.  You will only hurt yourself with comparisons that do not, I repeat, *do not* matter to a disorder. This isn't about how great you were and his refusal to acknowledge your sensitivity- it is about a disorder. There is no winner here.  She does not get what you always wanted. The disorder needs your respect. You did not cause it, you cannot control it and you cannot cure it. Look away and prepare yourself for healing. Block them.

www.therapyideas.net/triangles.htm

I removed him right at the beginning and he's since lost all of the audience from my side.  I would hear about it via my friends and family who were appalled on my behalf.  I don't hear or see anything concerning it anymore and I am grateful for that.  They're both blocked and he more so in other methods of contact. 

As for the vulnerable narcissism, I'm going to have to reflect on that.  Thank you for giving me something to consider.  At this point, it's all so fresh that I must admit my pride is incredibly wounded.  I would be lying if I said that wasn't the case.  I do need to not compare myself to her and I think that I will in time.  There is so much reflection that is going on in my life at present and it's not all good, but it will work out for the better eventually. 

It's a hard road to travel and I've come to realize it's full of self-doubt and second guessing.  Another point you made is also spot on and that is the removal of myself from the triangle.  I'm trying to work on that right now.  It is reality in so much as the loss of method for contact, but I still allow myself to engage in the drama in my own head.  Thanks again for the insight.  All of this is eye opening. 

[whitedoe]

I remember laying in bed that night thinking that I honestly didn’t know what was more painful to me in that moment – losing my beloved dog or that fact that this man that I believed loved me, could be so selfish and insensitive towards me at a time when I needed him most?

I feel for you.  I had a similar incident with my exBPDbf but it involved my 23-year-old daughter who was in hospital in another city (1 1/2 hour drive) having just been diagnosed with Crohn's.  She was not responding to conventional therapy, had 2 blood transfusions and was down to 80 pounds. My friends and co-workers constantly offered to drive with me on my many trips to be with her.  My ex only went once.  He was unsupportive, acted aloof and complained about feeling stiff from the ride when we returned.  He was totally insensitive and made me feel like I had put him out.  The one person I thought I could depend on for unconditional love and encouragement in my time of need, was not there.  My crying shoulder was not there.  For the duration of her hospitalization, I never asked him to accompany me again.  In hindsight, at that point I should have seen the writing on the wall, read it in his big blue vacant eyes.  I should have ended it then.   Yes he was an "emotionally underdeveloped child."    

Thank you for your comments, Firelite. Before I found this board, I didn't know what to think of a man who behaved with such excruciating insensitivity, selfishness... .The crazy confusion of it all? A man who claimed to love me so deeply (in words and "sex" - I pause to call it "love making" any more?) and yet had absolutely no compassion for me. I was not only hurt and devastated but also embarrassed by the selfish way he acted. I would "make excuses" for his lack of support, selfishness.

Oh, there was definitely unconditional love in our r/s... .it flowed from my heart to his but certainly not the other way around. I have cried a river over this man. Sadly, I have many more examples of his insensitive and very selfish behavior. I know exactly what you felt inside with your ex acting "put out" when you needed him most. Yes, you state it so perfectly, Firelite... .mine was also unquestionably an "emotionally underdeveloped child"... .and I grieve this reality... .And yes, mine also had the "vacant, almost glazed, blue eyes"... .chilling for me to accept... .

I am so very sorry to hear of your daughter's illness and also of your huge "let down"... .such a lack of love and support when you truly needed and deserved it. Also, it strikes me that what you and I both needed was so "easy" to give... .Nobody was asking someone to borrow $50,000, dig a well or shingle a roof here? We're talking about loving kindness, compassion, a hug, an assurance that we are not alone in difficult times... .Isn't that what loving someone is all about? pwBPD truly don't know love, do they? I hurt for myself... .but I hurt for this man that I loved so dearly... .perhaps even more than myself. What kind of life can it be to not know love and compassion... .?

Please keep posting, Firelite... .We will help each other through this painful healing process! It helps me so much with "acceptance" when I read other posts that describe "my story"... .It is BPD and not my "defectiveness"... .God knows how much I loved him and showed him this love through "actions" everyday that we were together (2 years)... .I need to understand why I ever let someone treat me so badly... .

WhiteDoe

[whitedoe]

But I still loved this person and believe him to be very much human. My heart aches for him when I read poems and essays by people with BPD. Sometimes I just feel so angry that this beautiful person is so tormented and that I have been deprived of even the opportunity to have a future with him. I know I have to believe that there is someone else out there for me who will love me in the ways I loved to be loved by him but will also be capable of true intimacy, which I think he wanted but was not capable of. So sad.

Hi Estee, I feel this way too about my xuBPDbf. It's tragic and heartbreaking to know that the one thing he desperately wants - a close, intimate rship with someone, is the very thing he is not capable of ever having - without help. I think everyone just processes the pain of these types of rships differently, and to be able to move on, some people may need to view the pwBPD as monsters - to each his own. There were times when I viewed mine as a monster, and I can't honestly say that there may not be times when I'm in that place again, but for me, it's always temporary, and when I'm in a good place with myself emotionally, I always come back to the love and compassion that I feel for him.

 

Yes, how beautifully put, htl67... .I agree with you completely. I do much the same myself, going back and forth but always coming back to love and compassion... .That is simply who I am. It's wonderful to connect with someone who "gets it"... .and understands this painful process... .

Thanks for your comments! They are so helpful to me... .I know that I say this often, but OMG, this site is such a God send to me... .

WhiteDoe

[whitedoe]

I deleted all the emails, and left him with everything that had to do with him: pictures, clothes he bought me, momentos- everything. Since the relationship was false, why hold on to any items?

Anyway, I think sensitivity takes a back seat to these people because they're only sensitive to their misguided wants and needs.  Maybe it's a sort of 'people exist to make me feel less miserable' kind of thing?  I don't know.  All I know is that, in a sense, we're lucky because we are no longer subjected to their mania, mood swings, splitting, and all out crazy.  We have our lives back, for better or worse.  I say this now, but I'm sure I'll get misty eyed later this evening.  One day at a time.  I no longer expect sensitivity from mine because it doesn't exist.  Instead, I pray, talk to friends and family, see a therapist, and am sensitive to my own needs and wants.  Maybe try being sensitive to yourself and it might help?  These people are broken in an inherent way and the only thing that will help them is long-term therapy.  We try to relate and understand our situations the only way we know how: sanely with logic and cause/effect reasoning.  That includes being sensitive to others needs.  It cannot be done in situations like these.  My final advice/thoughts: take care of you because you matter!

Great post, Caspian... .You make a lot of sense to me. Thanks for sharing your thoughts... .Yes, I also get "misty eyed" over all of this, still. It's been 3 mos since I was "dumped" now. And yes, one day at a time... .

WhiteDoe

[Crocus]

Yes

[Crocus]

Sadly, I hit rock bottom recently, and nearly died. I had read so much after the diagnosis was made, but by that time I was also too deeply entrenched in the constant cycle and nastiness/cruellness/emotional and psychological brutality of it all.  I simply didnt have the strength left, physical or mental, to enforce No Contact again (after several attempts that were thwarted by various maniupulations).  Several weeks later, I am out of the psych. hospital and doing pretty well, considering.  Great irony is that I am now being prosecuted for assault as, whilst at breaking point, and before attempting my own life, I slapped her and broke some of their possessions. I was arrested and charges were brought.  So, after years of abuse, the ex gets to play their favourite role in front of an audience - the victim!  And, I am sure they will do a great job .  You can tell, by my smile I hope, that there is light at the end of this tunnel! It was hard won, but I have my freedom... .Good luck to you all xxx

[Noob]

Sadly, I hit rock bottom recently, and nearly died. I had read so much after the diagnosis was made, but by that time I was also too deeply entrenched in the constant cycle and nastiness/cruellness/emotional and psychological brutality of it all.  I simply didnt have the strength left, physical or mental, to enforce No Contact again (after several attempts that were thwarted by various maniupulations).  Several weeks later, I am out of the psych. hospital and doing pretty well, considering.  Great irony is that I am now being prosecuted for assault as, whilst at breaking point, and before attempting my own life, I slapped her and broke some of their possessions. I was arrested and charges were brought.  So, after years of abuse, the ex gets to play their favourite role in front of an audience - the victim!  And, I am sure they will do a great job .  You can tell, by my smile I hope, that there is light at the end of this tunnel! It was hard won, but I have my freedom... .Good luck to you all xxx

Oh, man I am soo sorry to hear your story... .

Could have very easily happened to any of us. Glad we are done.