I read this and felt a chill. This is what my BPD mother does. She doesn't seek this for sexual purposes- which is why I didn't recognize it as grooming. Having people "do things for her" and being able to control them meets an emotional need for her.

She will send people on errands for her to do or get something she doesn't need. It's the act of "doing for her" that she wants. She's elderly and has people assist her as caregivers, but she sends them to the store to get her things. This didn't make sense. Why would you pay someone to come take care of you and then send them out to get a $10 box of bandaids at the pharmacy?

She will call me to ask me to make a phone call for her- and she is able to call me so why can't she call herself?

She has also tried this with my kids and other family members and tried to share "secrets" with them asking them to not tell me about it ( they tell me). I had boundaries with my kids so that she couldn't do this with them.

My kids are grown now. We don't live near her. We used to call her on the phone when they visit but they don't want to do that now because it makes them feel uncomfortable. She will ask them personal questions - it's the "friendship forming" behavior. I tried to make the calls on speaker phone as a protective measure and she got angry, saying she wants to talk to them one on one. So now, we don't do this at all.

I wasn't familiar with the term "grooming" until recently and I assumed it was for sexual exploitation so didn't read up on it. This isn't what my BPD mother is seeking. For her, I think it meets an emotional need somehow. She didn't need to do this in a romantic sense as my father took on the role of emotional caretaker for her.

I don't know how common it is with BPD but I did sense something was going on during her interactions with my children and felt I needed to intervene.

Yes, I think I have been sensitive to being around difficult people. I just learned to tolerate it from my BPD mother because of that relationship and my family dynamics.

If I only knew her from attending a work meeting- even if it didn't feel comfortable, the relationship would be different. I could act professionally and also stay at an emotional distance which would be normal in that situation.

What feels different is to act this way with my own mother but in a way, it works better if I do keep an emotional distance.

Responses to questions:

How does he communicate these things to you:

Quote from: CrazytownSA on May 18, 2024, 09:27:36 PM
How do you do that when they're literally telling you that you're a piece a PLEASE READ, a b****, a c***, arrogant, stupid, worthless. I totally get that they are really describing their own insecurities and projecting. I don't say insulting things back, but what are you supposed to say to that?

text? phone call? email? in person? other?
He texts them to me because when he starts saying them on the phone, I tell him that I won't tolerate being talked to that way and hang up when he won't stop.

The stance that I have been taking is that I will no longer allow him to take my peace. When he says insulting things, I have said they don't hurt me anymore and just reflect on his character.Most of the time I won't respond at all, and that really makes him mad. Damned if I do and damned if I don't.

Are you telling yourself that those things don't hurt you and just reflect on his character? Or are you telling him?
I text that back to him when he is texting horrible things to me.

How do you know that when you don't respond, he gets mad?
 I know that because he will call 5-20 times and then will text pages and pages of irate texts when I won't answer the phone.

So on May 19th I, and friends of mine, moved his stuff to storage. On Wednesday(22nd), I dropped off the key to the storage unit at his house when I knew that he would be gone to work. I sent him a text message with the info, and took the advice of Kashi and phrased my text that it was really difficult for me(truth), and framed in a way that I was trying to help both of us, that it would give him access to his things without having to coordinate with me whenever he wanted, and he could get things as he was ready etc etc. That actually worked. His response was "Thanks, I guess. I feel so disposed of".  I told him he will always hold a piece of my heart, that we just aren't healthy together and bring out the worst in each other. I apologized for causing him pain and told him I will always love and care and about him. I told him he's never disposed of, that just can't be together.
Thursday he text me that he was sorry and wished he could have dealt with things differently, that he cries every day, misses me, and that even with as hard as everything was, that it was the closest to happiness that he had ever been in his entire miserable life. This absolutely breaks my heart. It is so so hard. I know that bpd people are broken hurting souls, and I want so badly to be able to help him and heal the hurt, but I acknowledge that there is nothing that I can do that will accomplish that. We will always end up here, except with just more of me chipped away at. I pray for him every day. That is the only thing I know to do. I miss the sweet, loving, and affectionate side, but I just can't endure the angry, cruel, and heartless side anymore.  I pray for God to help me let go and move on. I am really struggling.

I meant that we are here to help and encourage YOU!

Dear Mom,


Wow, CC43 sure has given you such a clear path!

She’s 25 and working, so it sounds like now is the time for you to let her go and live her own life (and we all have to learn lessons) so you too can live your own life.

Trust in the foundation you built while raising her, and trust that God will care for His child.
Yes, there will be some rough spots for her, but DO NOT run to her rescue, she’ll be ok. She might also get involved in some unhealthy relationships as is the nature of BPD but those are her choices, DO NOT try to control her life. I think what she is showing is not that she can’t handle things on her own, but only the tendency of kids with BPD to be deeply concerned with feeling abandoned. But you have to be tough, as long as you guide her (just as you did in raising her), she should not feel abandoned, but DO NOT take care of everything for her.

CC43 has given you an excellent plan to relinquish control of her life to her, she has to make all her own choices, so do not give in to her or let her walk all over you.

Wishing you the best, OurWorld

We are here to help and encourage her,

I used to have a pretty good relationship with my stepdaughter (12). Every time my uBPDh begins his cycle, if my stepdaughter is at our house he screens at her that she is not to speak to me, etc and if she is not at our house she gets told the same I am assuming on the way to our house. I bought her some clothes…a hoodie, socks and bathing suit for Easter and got no thank you, nothing. I tried to make nothing of it as it was Easter and the little kids were all about the Easter Bunny so I pushed it off to that. I then gave her a pair of sandals. They literally got thrown on her floor and once again no thank you. Having 5 kids and believing that all of the kids deserve to get relatively equal things, I most recently bought her a t-shirt and shorts, once again nothing…but this time they were thrown in the laundry pile. Today we went to the pool and she had the sandals on. I said to her wow those look so good, I wasn’t sure if you had seen them since nothing was said to me. She said ya I got them and turned around and walked away. I am struggling big time with her. I understand that this is not her, but this behavior is not acceptable to me. Everything in me wants to either take the clothes and shoes back or say something but I’m not sure what to say. This is a direct line from her dad, my H as he goes shopping and only buys for himself and my stepdaughter and never asks if we need or want anything (mind you 2 of the kids he buys nothing for on a day to day or will put money aside for college for them are biologically his). I on the other hand, always ask if they need anything and always get what is needed and shop for the house, pay for it all with my own money and then tonight repeatedly got told I am leech?  What!  It makes no sense. Back to my stepdaughter, I am stuck!  Everything in me wants to say f you and treat her like she is treating me…ignore her when she talks to me, not include her in anything, not appreciate anything she does for me (I don’t even get thanked for making her dinner)…but the reality is that I do care and I want to treat her like all of my other kids but my uBPDh has made it impossible. I have always treated her the same as them and he has always told me that I exclude her…and he has now pushed her and pushed her to make his accusations a possible reality. He won’t let my parents talk to her or my sister talk to her or my nephew. It is horrible. He has backed out last minute on vacations leaving her to have to stay at home with him while all the rest of her siblings go on a fun vacation or see family, he has refused for her to spend holidays with my family so she sits at home while all of the other kids are running around having fun. It is so sad!  I can see her true feelings in her, but there is nothing I can do. I don’t think she tells her mom anything and if she does I’m not sure why she allows this to be done to her. So my question is what do I do?  I am so over the disrespect,like beyond over it!  Any suggestions?  

There is quite a bit known about how to treat it (i.e., "there's nothing definitive on how to treat it" is not correct). But you're basically correct on the second part - how well a treatment will work for any given individual is a crapshoot.

The treatments that are known to work include (this is not a completely exhaustive list): Dialectical Behavior Therapy, Mentalization-Based Treatment, Transference-Focused Psychotherapy, Schema Therapy, DBT-PTSD, Good Psychiatric Management for Borderline Personality Disorder, and Systems Training for Emotional Predictability and Problem Solving. They are very different approaches and all have different pros and cons. These treatments produce improvements in the average patient, and all work better than "treatment as usual" (i.e., typical psychotherapy), but a lot of patients don't improve. Complete recovery appears uncommon, but does occasionally occur. An interesting case is the woman who developed DBT - she qualified for a diagnosis of BPD as an adolescent, and it was extremely severe, but she found her way out of the disorder and is now a very accomplished and celebrated therapist. Based on current data, Schema Therapy appears one of the best treatment modalities, with apparently twice the level of improvement of most other common treatments (though more research is needed to confirm this). From what I've read and heard anecdotally, a determination to improve results in better outcomes.

Hi - I'm new here and badly in need of support.

Just over a year ago, my husband made a serious suicide attempt. He was hospitalized for two months and then had six weeks of IOP. We got lucky because he was treated at one of the top DBT clinics in the US. His initial diagnosis was BPD but his final diagnosis was 'unspecified personality disorder'. I'm guessing this is because he also has NPD traits. Neither of us had any idea that he had a mental health disorder before then.

Since then, he has been doing really well. We had both become very isolated after he retired, but he now volunteers for three different organizations and is starting to build new friendships. He is also having weekly therapy sessions and we both attended a 12-week online DBT Family Skills training course which was very helpful. He has also tapered off all his medication and has been discharged by his psychiatrist. All this is great news.

Meanwhile, my life is a wreck. Three months after his suicide attempt, I was arrested and charged with coercing him into committing suicide (I didn't). I wish I could go into details but my attorneys have said that I mustn't say anything to anyone while the court case is still pending. The court also imposed a Protective Order, forbidding me to have any contact with my husband apart from virtual contact. I moved out of the family home into a friend's basement because I was undergoing chemotherapy at the time, for breast cancer. I subsequently had a double mastectomy. Once I had recovered from the surgery, I moved into an apartment about half an hour away. This was in March this year. Oh, and my children (2 boys, aged 34 and 33) are no longer talking to me, and I can no longer see my grandchildren as a result. It's a total mess.

As part of the court proceedings, I have had two in-depth psychiatric analyses, both of which show that I have no sociopathic or psychopathic tendencies, and no evidence of selfishness or manipulative behavior. The reports state that my husband's behavior around the time of his attempted suicide consisted of 'manipulation on a daily basis that meets the criteria for verbal and emotional abuse'. My husband's own therapist has said that my husband put me in an impossible position during the period leading up to his suicide attempt.

The reason for this post is that last week the court modified the conditions of the Protective Order to a 'residential stayaway'. This means that my husband and I can start to have normal contact, apart from the fact that I am not allowed to go back to the family home. At the same time, my attorney informed me that I will almost certainly come out of this with a felony conviction. The only good news is that I should get a suspended sentence so hopefully I won't have to go to jail. But the conviction will follow me for the rest of my life.

I have a choice now about whether to try to rebuild this relationship or not. I'm really scared of going back to how I felt before my husband's suicide attempt - by which I mean all the things that Randi Kreger describes as 'non-BP responses to borderline behaviour': bewilderment, loss of self-esteem, feeling trapped and helpless, withdrawal, guilt and shame, isolation, hyper-vigilance and physical illness, adopting BPD-like thoughts and feelings, and co-dependence.

I have been trying to use the time apart to look deeply at how I got myself to this place. I have been having weekly therapy and I have read everything I can find online about co-dependency and BPD. I have also read "Walking on Eggshells" and Marsha Linehan's autobiography. I can see how, over the years, I have enabled my husband's dysfunctional behavior - unknowingly, and with the best of intentions, as I'm sure is true of most partners of people with undiagnosed BPD.

I'm hoping that my year's worth of therapy and introspection will help me to avoid going back to how we were before. I'm also hoping to reconnect with all the things that I love about my husband, and to rediscover the reasons why I fell in love with him in the first place. When he is not triggered, he is passionate, intelligent, enthusiastic, and great fun to be around. But even if I can succeed in all that, how am I going to avoid feeling resentful when I am bearing the consequences of his actions in such a major way - by having a felony conviction for the rest of my life? Apart from speeding tickets, I have never broken the law and this is devastating to me. I'm finding it very hard to see how I can let this go. And if I can't let it go,  I don't see how we can make the relationship work.

I feel that I have shielded him from the consequences of his behavior for too long now, and a felony conviction, for *his* suicide attempt, feels like one time too many.

To whoever reads this - thank you for listening. I'm not asking for answers, but it has helped to write it down.

There are probably multiple reasons why he is making these claims for the child.

He might be claiming sudden recovery and child abuse in an effort to try to make you look worse than himself.

He might even be trying to maneuver himself into a smaller child support obligation.  He might be disordered but even disordered people know the reality of money.  (Courts typically draw a line between child support amounts versus amount of parenting.  In other words, you can't bluntly say you would forgo child support if he just goes away.)

Likely too he may not be very inclined to parent but he just feels impelled to sabotage your parenting.  (What we've seen here sometimes is where the disordered parent seeks to look good to others and poses as a good involved parent but then once they get a nice order they eventually retreat to a lower level of parenting, a level comfortable for them.  You can't allow that much since it has been documented he can be dangerous.)

That you've had supportive agency intervention and his mental health hospitalizations send a tremendous message to the court.  Court is unlikely to reverse that or even relax his restrictions (supervised status) anytime soon.

That said, do not let your fears of an uncertain future divert you from seeking the best (or less bad) outcome for yourself and especially your child.  He will try to make this all about himself but your priority must stay on target - you and your child's welfare.

A professional or agency should be tasked with supervision.  They're trained for it.  He may complain about the expense and instead seek you, family or a friend to assume that responsibility but resist that.  That's on him.  You know the old wisdom... "Let your eyes not feel sorry" when he has to pay his consequences.

As mentioned already, you deserve an in depth evaluation and assessment.  A cursory Psych Eval is not enough, besides it doesn't account for how he might parent.  If you do seek a GAL or a Custody Evaluator, ensure they have a solid reputation with the court, not just anyone can handle these tough cases.

Hello
I had exchanges that he initiated, and I too continued to hear from him but not as often as before. He tells me to write to him but I tell him that he can do it too. in fact, I refrain from writing to him in a reasonable manner for fear that it will scare him away even though he insists that I write more... am I doing right not to respond to his "requirements"?
I do not know ..
then he told me that he has been taking medication recently (I hope it will help him) is it prudent to ask him in the future if he feels better now with the medicine?
is it good to say that it is good for him to follow this treatment? I'm afraid to express myself on this for fear that if I congratulate him he will do the opposite...

Thanks for your advices !