Rage and hate in front of children

[Parents! Get help here!]

I have been off for a while, after having received much comfort and support here some months ago.

I try all the time to improve myself so as to deal best w BPDd, 37. I am fine when she is, but still don't do well when she is in insane state. Most of the time, when she's around or not, I am as if trying to crawl back up the side of a stone mountain after having been thrown down to the bottom by a person who seems to wish me harm. When she's not around for months and I attain a certain level of well being, I am inevitably focused on improving my oh so not-good-enough self. I have become much more patient and skilled but she always finds some excuse to be abusive.

I am devoted to her well being and that of her children. This she takes for granted until she snaps and calls me vile names. It is incredible how she can suddenly characterize me as low scum, unfit to be near her or her children. The day before yesterday she ranted like a true insane person for an entire day, nearly spitting hate at me, because of a basically innocuous remark. All in front of the kids. I cry at some point, and can't stop. She did not snap back until late yesterday morning and then she was simple sane sensible and explained the vanishing of the hate as being thanks to an email that she had sent to someone who has been giving her a hard time.

My 'self.' with no direction from 'me' forgives all instantly and treats her as if she's a sane sensible nice daughter. The thought crosses my mind, 'should I do this?' but there's no time to think and I have no energy to put on an act. (I'm recuperating from surgery right now.)

I read something about 'being' forgiveness. I feel like I am that, but I don't see what good it does anyone.

Today I raised my voice a bit because there was such a demented mess in the kitchen that I nearly fell down. She snapped instantly again into vicious name calling shrew. She exaggerates my 'wrong doing' to an insane degree, telling her boys that I am dangerous and shouldn't be around children. That I want to ruin her life and their lives and that I do that by always causing some kind of upset. This describes her completely. Nearly everyday she has some 'crisis' to pull everyone into, or some insult to be avenged, some outrage to pass on to me and her poor innocent kids.

Her language is hideous and vile. When I was a child my mother once took me along when she visited her sister, who had had a nervous breakdown, at a mental hospital. She left me in a waiting room. I sat there hearing the obscene and profane shouts and screams of the inmates.

I really wonder what kind of insanity I'm dealing with. Now her children are starting to be on the receiving end of her abuse. She refuses to get counseling, denying there is anything at all the matter with her. It's me, or her husband, or the kids who are at fault. She seems to have enough rage in her that she could, or will, destroy everyone she 'loves.'  Is this really BPD or is it something else like schizophrenia? How can it happen that someone can go through life like this, destroying even children, without anything stopping them?

[Glenna]

I have been off for a while, after having received much comfort and support here some months ago.

I try all the time to improve myself so as to deal best w BPDd, 37. I am fine when she is, but still don't do well when she is in insane state. Most of the time, when she's around or not, I am as if trying to crawl back up the side of a stone mountain after having been thrown down to the bottom by a person who seems to wish me harm. When she's not around for months and I attain a certain level of well being, I am inevitably focused on improving my oh so not-good-enough self. I have become much more patient and skilled but she always finds some excuse to be abusive.

I am devoted to her well being and that of her children. This she takes for granted until she snaps and calls me vile names. It is incredible how she can suddenly characterize me as low scum, unfit to be near her or her children. The day before yesterday she ranted like a true insane person for an entire day, nearly spitting hate at me, because of a basically innocuous remark. All in front of the kids. I cry at some point, and can't stop. She did not snap back until late yesterday morning and then she was simple sane sensible and explained the vanishing of the hate as being thanks to an email that she had sent to someone who has been giving her a hard time.

My 'self.' with no direction from 'me' forgives all instantly and treats her as if she's a sane sensible nice daughter. The thought crosses my mind, 'should I do this?' but there's no time to think and I have no energy to put on an act. (I'm recuperating from surgery right now.)

I read something about 'being' forgiveness. I feel like I am that, but I don't see what good it does anyone.

Today I raised my voice a bit because there was such a demented mess in the kitchen that I nearly fell down. She snapped instantly again into vicious name calling shrew. She exaggerates my 'wrong doing' to an insane degree, telling her boys that I am dangerous and shouldn't be around children. That I want to ruin her life and their lives and that I do that by always causing some kind of upset. This describes her completely. Nearly everyday she has some 'crisis' to pull everyone into, or some insult to be avenged, some outrage to pass on to me and her poor innocent kids.

Her language is hideous and vile. When I was a child my mother once took me along when she visited her sister, who had had a nervous breakdown, at a mental hospital. She left me in a waiting room. I sat there hearing the obscene and profane shouts and screams of the inmates.

I really wonder what kind of insanity I'm dealing with. Now her children are starting to be on the receiving end of her abuse. She refuses to get counseling, denying there is anything at all the matter with her. It's me, or her husband, or the kids who are at fault. She seems to have enough rage in her that she could, or will, destroy everyone she 'loves.'  Is this really BPD or is it something else like schizophrenia? How can it happen that someone can go through life like this, destroying even children, without anything stopping them?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[donnab]

It's the illness, you absolutely must not take anything she says personally or as a reflection on you. I am reading Stop Caretaking The Borderline or Narcissist. How to End The Drama and Get on With Life and this is a point that is raised. We need to have a firmer sense of self esteem to with stand these comments. This was a revelation to me! I have spent years being distressed by the things my dd says to me when she is in a emotionally charged state and this one statement was so liberating.

It does not sound like schizophrenia to me as that is characterised by delusional thoughts and hallucinations, seeing and hearing things others do not. I worked in mental health for 14 years and actually most of the people with schizophrenia were very gentle people not given to extremes in mood.

I recommend the book above and looking at ways to look after yourself, you and your grandkids need you to be emotionally strong to counteract the negative aspects of this disorder x

[Eyeamme]

Hi Glenna,

I could have written what you wrote. My daughter was so abusive last time we visited (We live on opposite coasts) that I have called a timeout.

I totally understand the heartbreak of the grandkids. I was banned from them too. The thing that got me to realize it was BPD is when she started attacking my husband verbally. I could buy that it was me that caused her vileness but when I saw her do it to HIM I realized she is sick. 

Does your daughter treat everyone like she does you? It helps to look at all your daughters relationships to see it isn't you. It does sound like BPD. Does your daughter and grandkids live with you?

All of this is so hard. You are not alone.

[Glenna]

Thank you donnab and Eyeamme for your thoughtful and helpful responses.

Unfortunately, I have a real denial problem. The minute she acts normal some part of me kicks in to announce happily that the worst is over and she will never be so horrible again. Then when she is I am actually shocked and think, 'no, no. this wasn't supposed to happen again!' She has been having rage fits since she is about 15. 22 years. And I have been going to support groups for years.

My father was a binge drinker and most weekends he didn't come home until he was in very bad shape and had spent his pay. It was never acknowledged that we as a family had a problem. I was completely relieved every Monday - as in thank god that's over! sure that things were going to get better, because, geez, couldn't he see how much pain and sorrow he caused? Well, if he could, it didn't make him change his ways. Did this early training in denial set me up to be like this?

She is not in a fury now, but her thinking is twisted and she is very nasty. She is now telling me, as if factually, how horrible I am. She makes changes in the sentences I said to make them malicious and troublemaking. When I say I didn't say that, she just ignores. She weaves a separate false reality that justifies her rage.

I had surgery last week, which has made me more vulnerable to horrid scenes. She was perfect on the day she picked me up and was pretty nice the days after. Then it broke. Stress destroys her.

Eyeamme,

She comes with her 2 boys to stay with me as much as she can. They came in Dec and she stayed longer than planned bc of my surgery. Her basic nature is good, but as I wrote above, stress makes her sick.

She does the same thing to her husband and now she is starting to do it with her oldest boy which horrifies me. He is such a nice normal boy.

Donnab,

Thank you for the clarification. And I will definitely get that book.

[Eyeamme]

Glenna,

I am partly in denial too. It is hard to get your mind around.

[penny52]

Hi, I am so sorry for the pain that you are going through, I too have been in denial( undiagnosed  dd 27)for a while, but I'm truly seeing the light for the first time. I have now read two books about BPD and they have helped me understand about taking care of ourselves,  and I start therapy next week. If we are not healthy We cannot help anyone. The books that I've been reading, Stop walking on eggshells and the other one is When hope is not enough, I learning how to communicate with my daughter, and not to get myself so involved. I actually physically have to stop myself from calling her to check on things, social services are involved so I have voice my concerns to them and I'm just going to have to be here for her and the grandchildren. I hope by all of them going to family counseling which they are court ordered to do that someone will see that my daughter has a problem. Please take care of yourself.

[meantcorn34]

I don't know if this is the right thing, but it works for me. When my son starts up with his venom, I tell him I'll listen when he has calmed down and can speak respectfully. Then I either go out somewhere or go into my room and lock the door. I do not listen or respond to him if he is outside my door, turning on the radio or tv to distract myself.  I no longer sit through his rants. I feel much better nowadays.

Your grandchildren are an issue that's more than I have to handle, but I think you can model behavior that will be helpful to them to survive their mother. I really feel for you. So sad.