He lied

[topknot]

Looking in the desk today for a paper clip - came across a hidden file folder.  Arrested for falling off his Harley drunk last August.  Another motorist called it in. Had the ankle bracelet,  the blow thing in the car. I'm reading this like,  REALLY?  He told me he just quit drinking back then." Oh yeah, people just do that sometime".  I remember thinking that was strange.  Even at Christmas,  he was drinking tonic water. Yup, that didn't last.  How much DON'T we know, for all of us who want to believe them? Just shaking my head here... .

[AG]

LOL. You've only reached a small portion of the iceburg. I doubt all of them are liars because it would just be ignorant to state that all of them do but my experience is that the lying is incredible. What bugs me about it is the ease of how they do it. Let's be honest here though everyone lies. Everyone has lied and everyone will lie in the future. What makes it beyond annoying is when it is pathological or about things that are major. It really messes with me being able to trust people. It is going to be a while before I trust someone on the dating aspect. Yet another thing I have to work on or better yet repair. It is what it is. Your last abbreviation sums it all up. All you can do i shake your head. I have recently started studying on body language. I have a couple of books Ive read on it and I have another book specifically that is about using body language detecting skills to not be lied to or to make it easier to spot a bold face lie out. Next time we should just watch actions a hell of a lot better and not just words. THeyre words seem to be bogus alot of the time.

[myself]

Is there anyone who thinks pwBPD don't lie?

The facts are in. They've even admitted it.

The truth is what they're running from the most.

[BorisAcusio]

I doubt all of them are liars because it would just be ignorant to state that all of them do

As you wrote, it is a proven fact that humans lie on a daily bases. They just take it to a whole new level.

[free-n-clear]

  The lies that annoyed me the most were about insignificant things - but things that she had to know I knew she was lying about. Even when I'd call her out on it and present verifiable facts to prove she was lying, she'd carry on regardless, almost like a three-year-old kid who just doesn't realise that the grown-up saw her kick the cat 

[Alex86]

Well I think solely the whole mirroring thing was a lie. And eventually the whole r/s was a lie. Wasn't it?

[Perdita]

  The lies that annoyed me the most were about insignificant things - )

This gets to me too.  If someone lies about insignificant things, then surely they also lie about those things that are significant.  It destroys the trust. I find myself always wondering what is really going on.

[Changingman]

Everything is a lie if you feel different about everything constantly, have no solid sense of self.

The False Self must be maintained at all times. Even to themselves.

[hergestridge]

Like most liars they don't perceive themselves as liars. They just feel that the truth is changing.

[learnandgrow]

I used to think my BPD wasn't a liar. She never seemed like one. She always seemed fairly trustworthy. And people who did the things I found out she ended up doing... .were "terrible people" in her eyes.

But she was definitely a pathological liar. It turns out she was lying about all of the little things, but also some big things as well... .and continued to deny when I caught her red handed. Like AG said, the thing that hurt most (aside from discovering the extent of the lying) was the apparent ease at which she did it... .like it was no big deal. So cold. It is painful to realize someone you trusted so much, and thought was different than the literature... .and never showed signs of lying was the case study to the letter.

[Aussie JJ]

One that hurts me is I always used to get told constantly I was a liar.  PROJECTION!

Anyway, when I would have an opinion yelling would start I would back down and she got what she wanted and would then justify it saying the only time I didn't lie was when she yelled like that, that is when she got the truth. 

[Huh?]

Whats amazing to me, in my case, is that my ex fiance would rather end our relationship than admit her lies.

She lied during the duration of the relationship (about small things, I hope)

Recently, I confronted her about an article of clothing that had gone missing from my closet.  She believed that it belonged to an ex of mine, which it had not. It was a hand made gift from my Mom to myself that I had never worn.  It had a lot of sentimental value.  When I asked her if she knew where it was, I hadnt seen it in a long time... .she redirected the questioning towards me saying, "I dont know where it is. I havent told you this before but two years ago you put my arms around me in your sleep and called me your exs name"   Of course, I dropped my questioning and started apologizing... .yet, Ive never been known to talk in my sleep and even still, why would she wait two years to tell me? My friends that are girls have all told me if it was her boyfriend that called her an exs name, they would have woke them up immediately and questioned him.

A few days later, I confronted her again.  Again, She denied that she knew where it was and told me to leave her house.  I told her to call me when she wants to have an honest conversation.  I havent heard from her since.  

[Vatz]

She demonized her parents. I was skeptical about when she spoke of her mother. Her dad I may have believed. But then I talked to them on the phone when getting rid of her things. They were amicable enough. I wasn't their family, but they were decent enough to make suggestions and help come to a compromise as I couldn't leave it with them, they directed me to someplace I could.

Towards the recent end of the relationship, I feel like she didn't even bother lying, but because I never asked, there was no need. She was constantly on skype. Admittedly I was on the computer alot and not tending to her. I withdrew. We were still together, but I had a feeling there was already someone else in the picture. Funny how people just know, without knowing.

When we broke up, another guy's picture was on her phone background. Didn't skip a beat. Before it was me hugging my dog, then BAM. As if to say "well, he's old news. This is the new object of my obsession. I should make it official and put it on my phone." It only confirmed the feeling I had maybe a month before the split. She was lining up a replacement. Funny thing is, I'm not actually taking it personally. I've gotten so used to it, that for me it's just another day in the life. But that's probably all the more reason to get away from her, right?

She used to often try to accuse me of things I didn't do. The thing is, like my father I have a very good recollection of events and certain details. So there were times she tried to tell me that I did something one way, or perhaps that I said something to her. I'd go back, recall the event and would more often than not remember how things actually went down, the key I've always found was to recall the sequence of events. I can't tell you how many times she reversed roles when recounting events. I was the one that did and said this thing. I clearly remembered it was actually her. I think it angered her that the "Oh, it was you" trick rarely worked on me. Eventually I felt like I was being the "I'm right, you're wrong" guy that sometimes I just wouldn't call her on it. Unless of course it was something I felt was important.

Who knows what else she lied about. Hopefully I'll never have to worry about her lies again. Some things are better off buried.

I am however, left with an inability to trust someone completely. I just... .can't do it. I might trust someone, but only up to a point, that point I'm afraid may not change. Romantically speaking, I'll always just assume my partner will at some point cheat on me. I'll just never know about it. It's because I don't see myself as someone that a woman will be faithful to. There are so many men who are objectively superior to me. At some point, my partner will just cheat. This relationship and my previous one left that impression on me. I've been to therapy and I've been told by people that "not all people are like that." This belief has become part of me now. I am at the mercy of the whims of women and better men. Whether I deserve it is totally irrelevant. But if I had to guess, I'd say just as the weak deserve their fate, I deserve to be cheated on and lied to.

But that's digressing.

Yeah, there were lies I knew about it. There are lies I don't know about. I just want to bury the relationship and all the lies it came with.

[free-n-clear]

Yeah, there were lies I knew about. There are lies I don't know about.

   That's the thing - when after the idealisation phase we start catching them out lying so often, we start wondering how much of what we had taken as truth really wasn't. It's a bit like Rumsfelds' famous "known unknowns and unknown unknowns". 

[Vatz]

Yeah, there were lies I knew about. There are lies I don't know about.

  That's the thing - when after the idealisation phase we start catching them out lying so often, we start wondering how much of what we had taken as truth really wasn't. It's a bit like Rumsfelds' famous "known unknowns and unknown unknowns".  

Heh, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

Honestly? She probably didn't love me. Thinking about it now, she probably wasn't even attracted to me. I was just someone she needed. If she wasn't mentally ill, and could take care of herself, I wouldn't have even been on her radar. Too many better suitors.

It kinda hurts realizing that the one you love never really *wanted* you in the first place. She just didn't want to be alone. I was far from her first choice. Deep down I believed I didn't really deserve better than that. I still think it's as good as I can get. But drinking the kool-aid and engaging is my own fault. All I could do is move on.

[Tausk]

What about the false self that was presented to the pwBPD to mirror?   Was that a lie?  

I lied to her and myself with the presentation of a false self.  And she mirrored the false self, which was so intense because it affirmed the lie.  When my ex stopped mirroring and idealizing me, it was in part because the false self was a lie. When the mirror shattered the lie was exposed.  And a big part of the difficulty in letting go of the my ex is from not wanting to be honest with myself about the lie that I've been holding since I was a child.

If I had a real self and presented the truth when I met my ex, I would not have felt like I found my soulmate.  

Looking at myself is what leads me to detachment.

[hergestridge]

I think most of us grow up learning that truth is important, that it has a value is itself. The only truth my sbtxwife knows is being "true" to herself, her feelings and her current mindset.

Whenever we discussed something that could be solved by checking the facts (i e "what does the law say?", "what time do they close?" she could be all against looking it up if the debate had started to get a little heated. Winning = important. Fact = not important.

When she describes her personal history it's all revisionism. She says she hasn't felt she loved me for the last year. I told her she told me just a few weeks ago that she felt all those loving feelings coming back. She didn't like that and told me not to tell me how she's been feeling, and that she's propably been unstable or something (!).

Actually, my four year old daughter has exactly the same problematic relationship to the truth. She's handling the truth better than my xw now to be honest.

[Promises]

The lies were shocking.  So many, so blatent, never admited he was wrong or apologized.  Even Lies I could prove were lies.  It's like he actually believed them.  Constantly heard "your crazy". I don't know what your talking about" "would you just drop it". Always accused me of lying.  It was absolutely sickening and made me question if anything he said was real.  If he didn't lie he would instead leave out huge, important pieces of information intentionally. 

[learnandgrow]

Oh, does this ring true for me. I didn't think she was a liar... .until I uncovered the lies. And then she denied them... .after being caught red handed. It was the most unsettling thing I've ever felt... .because she denied so vehemently and with such ease it was as if she really believed it. She projected onto me as well in the same way. It wasn't lying if I "didn't ask" or she "didn't tell." It's scary because it was so undetectable.

The lies were shocking.  So many, so blatent, never admited he was wrong or apologized.  Even Lies I could prove were lies.  It's like he actually believed them.  Constantly heard "your crazy". I don't know what your talking about" "would you just drop it". Always accused me of lying.  It was absolutely sickening and made me question if anything he said was real.  If he didn't lie he would instead leave out huge, important pieces of information intentionally. 

[tbddbt]

My wife does this all the time. I ask her about a lie and even show her how I have 100% proof and she is so outraged and convincing in her denials. It's extremely unsettling.

For instance:  One time, she had me convinced that she swallowed a bunch of sleeping pills.  I told her I would call 911. She didn't relent. Again, I made sure she wasn't bluffing, at the same time, I needed to do something before it was too late. After going back and forth,  I finally called 911, while she hit and scratched and tried to pry the phone away from me.

The police arrived and she locked herself in the bedroom. I force the door open, and she tells them that I was drunk and had been hitting her! (Both of which we're complete lies). Thankfully, they didn't believe her.

After the police leave (she never really took any pills), she starts punching and kicking me and blaming me for calling the police on her. I said its because I didn't want her to die!  She then says in the most convincing manner that she never said she took and pills and that she didn't tell them that I was abusing her!  If I hadn't been there and it didn't just happen to me, I would have believed her!  It makes me wined how often she really does lie to me.

And yes, she constantly calls me a liar!

[tbddbt]

Sorry, I just noticed a couple of typos in my post. Stupid autocorrect!

[Blimblam]

What about the false self that was presented to the pwBPD to mirror?   Was that a lie?  

I lied to her and myself with the presentation of a false self.  And she mirrored the false self, which was so intense because it affirmed the lie.  When my ex stopped mirroring and idealizing me, it was in part because the false self was a lie. When the mirror shattered the lie was exposed.  And a big part of the difficulty in letting go of the my ex is from not wanting to be honest with myself about the lie that I've been holding since I was a child.

If I had a real self and presented the truth when I met my ex, I would not have felt like I found my soulmate.  

Looking at myself is what leads me to detachment.

I can relate to this so much!  I also think that the creation of the false self is something everyone does.  The very nature of our consumer culture is to shame us into buying crap and it starts young look at the commercials in childrens cartoons.  We define our realities through consumption through products we use to define us.  Ideas we have of ourselves that become our guiding light in life.  We like to think of ourselves in a certain way to avoid feeling shame guilt and fear.

Who we think we are... .is a lie we tell ourselves to feel good about ourselves.

[AwakenedOne]

Well I think solely the whole mirroring thing was a lie. And eventually the whole r/s was a lie. Wasn't it?

Yes.

[Danie14]

Yes the lies are unsettling & sometimes just plain dumb. Mostly I don't even bother to call him out on them anymore. I really don't see the point in arguing with him at all.

I tell you the most unsettlingly lies he tells are the ones when he tries to take my stories & make them his own. He will take and re-tell a story I have shared with him in the past like it happened to him.

The most heartbreaking lies are the reworking of history lies... .makes me doubt myself... .question my reality... .my own mind. That's a h3ll of a thing.

& yes he argues until he's right... .he's even admitted this to me.

I wanted to add that all of his lies make me seriously question his reality... .everything he's ever told me is questionable on every level

[free-n-clear]

The most heartbreaking lies are the reworking of history lies... .makes me doubt myself... .question my reality... .my own mind. That's a h3ll of a thing.

  Hi Danie14. This type of lying is so common among pwBPD, it's been given it's own - unofficial, non-clinical - name. It's known as Gaslighting. The term refers to the name of an old movie in which the villain does exactly this - virtually drives a woman insane by making her doubt everything she had known to be true, with his lies.

[Promises]

Oh, does this ring true for me. I didn't think she was a liar... .until I uncovered the lies. And then she denied them... .after being caught red handed. It was the most unsettling thing I've ever felt... .because she denied so vehemently and with such ease it was as if she really believed it. She projected onto me as well in the same way. It wasn't lying if I "didn't ask" or she "didn't tell." It's scary because it was so undetectable.

The lies were shocking.  So many, so blatent, never admited he was wrong or apologized.  Even Lies I could prove were lies.  It's like he actually believed them.  Constantly heard "your crazy". I don't know what your talking about" "would you just drop it". Always accused me of lying.  It was absolutely sickening and made me question if anything he said was real.  If he didn't lie he would instead leave out huge, important pieces of information intentionally. 

exactly.  Mine would deny so adamantly and not back down.  With ease is right.  It's sickening how second nature and easy it was for mine.  And evolved into gas lighting.  I have even been told I must have had a nightmare when I wasn't even sleeping.  I remember every word but the lie was on the phone at night so it must have been a nightmare.  Unreal these people.  Gaslighting and manipulation were his favorite 2 tactics.

[Promises]

I'd like to share the last of countless ones.  While other lies were more serious this was one of the most damaging and my last straw.  He was married, had only been separated for about 6 months before we met (if that was even true). They were working on the dissalusion process (supposedly) the whole time I was with him.  She knew about me and even though he says he couldn't stand this women, she always made me feel insecure which he intentionally tried to make worse by texting and joking with her an unreasonable amount.  Learned my lesson on dating married men believe me.

Anyway I sensed they were more intimate than he let on.  He tried to get out of this by actually giving me his phone account password to prove he never texted back.  Like I said he seemed to actually believe his own lies because his text records showed he always texted back, it was daily and sometimes he started it which he denied ever doing.

It was then I saw proof  biggest betrayal I could ever imagine.  He had been FORWRDING HER MY TEXTS.  I couldn't even make this stuff up if I tried.  

His explaination, "You told me too"

He encouraged me to look at his bill and it uncovered not only had he been lying but he had been sharing my private texts to him with his wife because after he thought about it he remembered I had "told him too"

I don't have to explain to any of you that I would never have done that and even if I had I would have remembered it.  I had to explain it to him and it never got through.  At times I thought he had some kind of brain damage and this was one of those times.  Of course he insisted he was right until I finally started to question if I had.

Recovering from this relationship has been harder than I ever imagined it would be.  Much needed counseling appointment tomorrow.