Does your BPD spouse/ex imagine things?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi.  My husband (who I am going back and forth on divorcing) imagines things, which is a main reason I am leaning toward divorce.  The final thing that pushed me to get away from him was that he said I had been hitting our son, and told his family about it and took him to the hospital (it all turned out fine because there was nothing wrong).  Anyway, he did it during a day of fighting with me and I thought he was doing it to get back at me.  Slowly I realized he actually believes it.  He also has had a lot of other things he thought he heard me say/do or heard others say, always negative things based on his fears.  Like, he keeps telling me that I told him I'd take our son away from him, when in fact I have NEVER said anything like that, but I know he must have big fears about that.  There are smaller things.  He says I have left the door unlocked a bunch of times, when I never have.  But that's also a big anxiety of his.

When people who are bipolar or schizophrenic do this, there are medicines to treat it.  Not so for a BPD person, apparently.  So I will always have to fight against his imagined fears, and that's hard.

Anyone else have experience with this?

[momtara]

Hi.  My husband (who I am going back and forth on divorcing) imagines things, which is a main reason I am leaning toward divorce.  The final thing that pushed me to get away from him was that he said I had been hitting our son, and told his family about it and took him to the hospital (it all turned out fine because there was nothing wrong).  Anyway, he did it during a day of fighting with me and I thought he was doing it to get back at me.  Slowly I realized he actually believes it.  He also has had a lot of other things he thought he heard me say/do or heard others say, always negative things based on his fears.  Like, he keeps telling me that I told him I'd take our son away from him, when in fact I have NEVER said anything like that, but I know he must have big fears about that.  There are smaller things.  He says I have left the door unlocked a bunch of times, when I never have.  But that's also a big anxiety of his.

When people who are bipolar or schizophrenic do this, there are medicines to treat it.  Not so for a BPD person, apparently.  So I will always have to fight against his imagined fears, and that's hard.

Anyone else have experience with this?

[asunder]

YES!  At first with little things that were not serious, but now she imagines that I am controlling, abusive (even physically abusive), attacking her... .  

it is frustrating to say the least.

[elm911]

  Hi momtara.  My uBPD husband seems to also have an altered perception of things, espcially under more stressful situations.  I sometimes feellike we live in parallel worlds rather than the same one because of how significantly he "misremembers" things.  He "remembers" details that never occurred, and even entire situations that serve to confirm his negative perspective of me.  I have always had an impeccable memory anis used to drive me crazy until I began to understand t better. 

I have gotten to the point where I really do not care anymore because I am very stable in my reality.  But I know that unless he gets help I cannot live in his surreal universe anymore.  I know my daughter and I need more stability and constancy in our lives.  I guess that is what you want for you and your son also.

Best of luck to you.  I know it is difficult, but I hope it works out well for you.

elm911

[cal644]

Yes she imagined things all the time... .  especially how I had affairs, was controlling, abusive, etc... .  I would ask her - do you truly beleive the things you are saying - really?  It amazes me how her "reality" is so far from the truth!

[gina louise]

That's HORRIBLE. Beware of this-he may go further... .  so be extra cautious and protect yourself. pwBPD go to many lengths for sympathy and will file bogus abuse charges and TRO's to gain custody.

During divorce they may manifest worsening behaviors-more extinction bursts, worse rages, more made up allegations- etc.

Mine accused me of even dumber things... .  like leaving the sprinklers on all night, when I wasn't even at the house. His son did it and even admitted to it immediately. But my HUSBAND never quite "forgot" the fact that he accused me first-so in his head it was my fault. Lots of stuff like that-and gas lighting after. He would tell me "Remember the time YOU DID XYZ... .  " and it was completely false!

That felt weird. I felt like I was always in trouble somehow.

He also called me his exW's name during rages-even when yelling directly at ME, inches from my face!

I believe in HIS mind, I sort of morphed into every woman who has ever hurt him-real or imagined.

Towards the end when he was picking fights constantly/daily... .  he certainly invented horrible things in his head that he was convinced I had done to ruin his life.

Yet when I confronted him and asked him to name ONE instance of alleged "abuse" from me to him... .  he would stutter, go blank-and scream YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID!

Complete projection.

I was usually either cringing in fear, or trying to leave the room/house during his tantrums.

But my advice is try not to be alone with him-when it can only be your word vs his. And protect/insulate your child-at all costs.

GL

[momtara]

Well, the divorce has pushed him to get counseling and admit to me that he might have imagined some things.  But it seems to me that there's no way to stop it from happening again, only to learn (through DBT therapy I guess?) to recognize when he may be in an altered mood, so he can doubt himself and question his perceptions.

It's a shame.  My mom is bipolar and imagines things, but when she was on medication she didn't imagine them anymore.  I don't think such medication exists for BPD.  Only maybe to calm down the related anxieties.  I wish there was more funding for this.

Yes, I know it could get worse during the divorce.  My husband is being so nice right now.  I think maybe I have to talk to him some more before things begin in earnest, just to see if he recognizes some of his problems.  I do love him.  It's really such a shame.

[atcrossroads]

Yes.

I left a week ago, and in our last fight (by which I mean him raging at me), he told me I am mentally unstable (emailed my mom informing her of this) and told me he is afraid I may be trying to kill him by putting antifreeze in his food.  When I asked him if he were serious, he replied, "I'm 100% serious.  You are so mentally unstable right now that I have no idea what you might be capable of doing."  He then went on to tell me he plans to get a huge gun this month (when he got paid) to for "safety and protection" against me.  I asked what evidence he had that I was mentally unstable and he shouted, "Why else would you be going to therapy once a week if you weren't mentally unstable?"

So... .  yes, I left that night and spent two nights with my parents.  After telling my T, he told me it's time to go and in the meantime, when you go home (I went home again for 2 weeks), sleep with door locked at night, charged phone and car keys by bed.

Mind you, my husband is a brilliant man who holds down a job and does not normally present as so delusional (he is also staunchly anti-gun except for hunting and such).  But we've been separated in our home for 4 months - tippy toeing around each other and headed to divorce.  He's been drinking a ton (had been drinking the night of that rage).  I fully believe he has convinced himself that I was indeed plotting to kill him.  When BPD's are extremely dysregulated, feel threatened, and are triggered, yes, they can be delusional or on the "borderline" of reality.

It is scary, and I simply could not do the dance (the validating, etc.) any more.  I have been painted 100% black in is mind to the point he believes I would kill him (!).  It was the final push to get me out the door.

Stay safe and please heed G.L.'s advice that this could be a very dangerous situation for you and in fact could escalate to arrest/jail for you.  I have read several stories on this forum of nons who spent time in jail due to their BPD's lies.  They can be very convincing to law enforcement too.

Take care... .  sending strength.  

[cal644]

My wife also thought I was going to kill her and was deathly afraid of me. My responce was have I ever once even got close to raising a hand to you or yelling at you?  Her responce was I know your going to kill me I can see it in your eyes. 

[levi]

Oh yes, my husband also imagine lots of thing everyday, mine also remembers details that never occurred, also i am very very careful to tell him something, cause he twist my words around, stab me in the back.  I am also very stable in my reality, where my husband thinks there is nothing wrong with him i am the crazy one for 31 years now. And he WILL not go for counseling cause there is nothing wrong with him.  And i know that i am not the crazy one.  This weekend after 31 years of marriage i have decided not to care about him anymore, i moved out of our room into another room, and let me tell you it is heaven on earth. At least now i can get up in the mornings without someone blaming me for something i didnt do.

[atcrossroads]

My wife also thought I was going to kill her and was deathly afraid of me. My responce was have I ever once even got close to raising a hand to you or yelling at you?  Her responce was I know your going to kill me I can see it in your eyes. 

I guess this belief is the epitome of delusional/paranoid thinking.  It is stunning to be told that our spouses believe we are trying to kill them, and even more stunning to look in their eyes and see that they BELIEVE it.  He also told me he has been having horrid nightmares and is afraid he will wake up and find me standing over him with a butcher knife!  All of this, I guess, is because I've detached, and his abandonment issues and dysregulation are in full swing.  I AM his trigger.  It seems he would be relieved that I am now gone.

How horrible it must be to live inside this kind of mind.

[cal644]

LOL - the butcher knife thing happened to me too... .  by this time my wife was sleeping upstairs - she thought she heard a noise and knew it was my comming to kill her with a knife... .  What is wrong with her mind to even consider that... .  I've never hurt anyone in my life before... .  now I'm going to become this cold blooded killer... .  she was always fascinated about the killer programs on the lifetime for women channel... .  maybe she was hoping I would kill her?  I can't understand what's wrong with her - even seperated she is still deathly afraid that I'm going to harm her (delusional)

[atcrossroads]

LOL - the butcher knife thing happened to me too... .  by this time my wife was sleeping upstairs - she thought she heard a noise and knew it was my comming to kill her with a knife... .  What is wrong with her mind to even consider that... .  I've never hurt anyone in my life before... .  now I'm going to become this cold blooded killer... .  she was always fascinated about the killer programs on the lifetime for women channel... .  maybe she was hoping I would kill her?  I can't understand what's wrong with her - even seperated she is still deathly afraid that I'm going to harm her (delusional)

Oh my!  It's like a bad horror movie -- sad, really!

We don't even OWN a butcher knife.  

What's really odd is as far as I know, he only says these "out there" things to me and would deny them if ever called on them.  I seriously doubt he has shared this thought with anyone he talks to (his mother, he has seen a counselor 1x in 4 months - goes again in a week - VERY seriously doubt that thought will be shared), or the couple friends he smears me to.

So, it's like on some level he knows it's delusional or else he would straight out tell it to other people.  If a schizophrenic were hallucinating, he/she wouldn't filter who they told their delusions to.  Yet, the BPD seems able to do that.  I don't know with certainty, but I would be shocked if my husband told anyone he thinks I'm trying to kill him because they would tell him he's nuts.

However, he did tell my mom that I'm very mentally unstable right now and need to be watched... .  so... .  I dunno.

Maybe it's a sort of projection - they have ill will toward us (painted black) and want to kill us.  My husband has never hurt me (nor me him), but he has said some hideous things about the ways he would kill people who've wronged him (perceived wrongs) or what he would like to do to certain people (very violent).  So, maybe it's a projection?

[Clearmind]

We often believe that Borderlines imagine, make up stuff. To us, it appears they do. To them, it’s their reality.

So I will always have to fight against his imagined fears, and that's hard.

How can you validate his fears rather than fighting against them?  This will only create conflict and a tug of war if you continue to push against each other. What can you do differently? He is not going to change.

It’s possible that his fears are not about your son at all – he fears that he will be the one left.

[waverider]

Does he take any antipsychotic meds?

My partner has a running feud with the neighbours two doors up, blames them for everything calling out rude things to her, yelling swearing and other domestic disruptions. Threatening to call the police on them. Blamed them for throwing empty beer bottles (hers) on our front lawn last week.

Thing is, that is the only rental property in the street, and during the last 5 years while these issues with those same neighbours has been going on, there has been 4 different tenents, and it has been empty for the last month. But the non existent tenets are still being blamed for things that are supposed to have happened 5 years and 4 tenancies ago.

[momtara]

Are there meds that would help?

[jaird]

Did mine imagine things? Oh yes, very much so!

We met on a social networking site, and we attended the same high school. She was a year behind me. I knew who she was, and I thought she was cute, but I stayed away because her entire family was dysfunctional, though in those days we didn't call people that, or at least I didn't know that term. Lets just say she had seven older brothers, I knew three of them, and the three I knew liked to drink a lot and fight a lot.

Fast forward 35 years, and this charming, warm, witty woman starts paying attention to me. We start flirting. I am pretty much neglected at home and in a sexless marriage. I love my new found friend. She asks me if there is a certain physical type of woman that I like. I am honest and say I like dark hair and dark eyes, like Italian or Latin. This exBPD GF is blond haired and blue eyed, but I am not even thinking about a relationship at this point, I truly just like her as a person.

One thing leads to another, and she starts sending me quite a few pictures of herself. The kind people take of themselves, by themselves, these days, LOL.

We begin out 27 month affair, which as I told her from the outset I really did not need. I was honestly happy just to have a friend so much like me in terms of sense of humor, and a woman that paid attention to me.

And on this social networking site, of course we both have all kinds of friends-family, people we worked with, lots of high school acquaintances, and some people we don't know at all, but who post interesting things and comment and are intelligent.

As time goes by, my ex gets enraged if any woman, particularly one with dark hair, posts anything on my wall or comments often. She insists I get these women off my account. She is convinced that I want to sleep with them, or they want to sleep with me.

One woman was from Romania, and spoke very little english. But one day she posted a picture of flowers on my wall. A day or two later it was a song she posted on my wall. My ex went ballistic!

A month or two after that I got a message from a latin woman I had just accepted as a friend a few weeks before but had never spoke to. The woman was livid, asking me how dare I tell people she was good at cyber sex! I calmed her down and asked what she was talking about, and asked why would I say such a thing about her when we had never even spoken? It turns out that my ex messaged her and another woman and told them that I said they were good at cyber sex, and did they do women too! LOL

Another time I met an old GF for coffee. We dated 35 years prior. We had coffee and talked and that was it. We had been in touch a few times over the years, and we liked each other as people. I made the mistake of admitting to my exBPD that I met this woman for coffee. Of course she insisted I had "unresolved feelings" for he woman, and wanted to bed her.

Another time two women friends from the same high school were going to the beach and asked on the social networking site who wanted to go. I cleared it with my ex, made sure she knew who these women were, and that we were all just meeting at the beach for a couple of hours. I thought I handled it very maturely and above board. I got home and was texting my ex, telling her I was home. She started peppering me with questions-what did the women wear? um... .  bathing suits. Two piece or one piece? Um... .  one piece, because we are all around 50 years old. Did either of them go in the water with me? LOL, it sounds funny now, but she was frantic. I told her I would talk to her in 20 minutes after I took a shower. She couldn't wait 20 minutes and started calling me immediately.

I know I've gone on too long. But my point is, even when faced with facts, the fact that nothing ever happened, my ex, until the day we broke up almost two years later, referred to these incidents as "dates" or "affairs" LOL.

My ex once told me, when I pointed out that if she wanted to act like a detective she had to deal with only facts, "Something may not be a fact, but if it's what i feel it's real to me".

So yes, mine imagined big time. And even when something was not a fact, she would bring it up once a month or so when she went on one of her rampages and started an argument.

[levi]

My husband will now and then also tell me that i am trying to poison his food or coffee, then he tells me he never ever wants coffee or food from me again, that hurts so much, cause i really like to cook , i love cooking and the bugger get xmas-dinner almost every nite

[AbayaLady]

YES. My uBPD "hears" sounds while we're on the phone and accuses me of cheating. He will bring up these "incidents" over and over again and truly believes this is happening.

He also imagines that people must be talking/thinking about him all the time.

He is convinced the FBI/CIA whoever are following him and tapping his phone. Says it's his reality and it's no big deal to him because he knows it's happening.

No amount of denial or explanation will ever convince him that these are in his imagination. Even if he comes out and says it (like another poster said, that "If she feels it, it is a fact" he will forget and deny this later. 

Don't go crazy trying to figure this out. Use validation to address his fears and change the subject/walk away/hang up/whatever you have to do to get out of any circular conversation that results from these delusions.

Mine haven't led to anything serious yet, but that's why I am undecided. I'm not sure I'm willing to get to that point.

[cbas]

Yes, mine has gone from full blown visual and auditory hallucinations, to very subtle twists in what I said to her.

Some of it has been projection of her own stuff, and attributing it to me.  Some of it comes out when things are going good ie, we're all hanging out laughing and happy, she starts twisting something I said earlier in the day, seems to just "need" to create chaos and make ~ up in her head.  There was a time I would then apologize for something I thought I did or try to make amends.

Also any mention of firearms, in the kind of head space you describe, concerns me.

[cbas]

Regarding meds, mine is on Respiridone 1.5mg.

[Levi Love]

Yes.

I left a week ago, and in our last fight (by which I mean him raging at me), he told me I am mentally unstable (emailed my mom informing her of this) and told me he is afraid I may be trying to kill him by putting antifreeze in his food.  When I asked him if he were serious, he replied, "I'm 100% serious.  You are so mentally unstable right now that I have no idea what you might be capable of doing."  He then went on to tell me he plans to get a huge gun this month (when he got paid) to for "safety and protection" against me.  I asked what evidence he had that I was mentally unstable and he shouted, "Why else would you be going to therapy once a week if you weren't mentally unstable?"

So... .  yes, I left that night and spent two nights with my parents.  After telling my T, he told me it's time to go and in the meantime, when you go home (I went home again for 2 weeks), sleep with door locked at night, charged phone and car keys by bed.

Mind you, my husband is a brilliant man who holds down a job and does not normally present as so delusional (he is also staunchly anti-gun except for hunting and such).  But we've been separated in our home for 4 months - tippy toeing around each other and headed to divorce.  He's been drinking a ton (had been drinking the night of that rage).  I fully believe he has convinced himself that I was indeed plotting to kill him.  When BPD's are extremely dysregulated, feel threatened, and are triggered, yes, they can be delusional or on the "borderline" of reality.

It is scary, and I simply could not do the dance (the validating, etc.) any more.  I have been painted 100% black in is mind to the point he believes I would kill him (!).  It was the final push to get me out the door.

Stay safe and please heed G.L.'s advice that this could be a very dangerous situation for you and in fact could escalate to arrest/jail for you.  I have read several stories on this forum of nons who spent time in jail due to their BPD's lies.  They can be very convincing to law enforcement too.

Take care... .  sending strength.  

I just so happened to come across this thread accidentally, but I am glad I did.  My spouse just sent me essay sized email titled "FINAL RESPONSE".  Long email short... She says is 100% sure I have PTSD and that is why she is going forward with the divorce after our 3rd separation in 6 years.  I was told I emotionally abused her from day one. 

I responded with very few words basically telling her I love her and understand what she is going through and am here for her.   

HOWEVER, I keep feeling inside how very little what she said is based on hard facts.  The words "Extremely Dysregulated" fit very well and have notice the longer we have lived apart (11 months), the more dysregulated things have become.  I am in the divorce dungeon awaiting execution. 

I am torn... I love that woman so much.  I hate that she thinks once she has finally gotten rid of me, her life will return to normal...?   

PRAYING FOR A MIRACLE...Thank you all for taking the time to write here.  I read them all, it helps. 

[sweetheart]

A distorted perception of reality has been and is a constant feature in my dBPDh’s dysregulations, when he is under any kind of stress, or when he simply misplaces something; in that it will have been stolen by someone.
As our relationship has gone on the seriousness of this disordered thinking has gotten worse.
What started out as ‘have you taken my phone charger?’, is more often becoming, ‘you have Muchhausen by Proxy and I’m going to report you to Children’s Services for abusing our son.’ Sigh!

I always feel that there is a kernel of reality somewhere in the thinking at the starting point, somewhere.

At first I thought it was a delusion, (at times these thoughts have crossed over into an acute psychotic episode) but realise now it is a form of dissociation and disordered thinking. Whatever it’s origin my h’s distorted perception of reality is absolutely real to him.

On many occasions it has been believed by the professionals that are involved in his life, especially those who haven’t known him long. I have been referred to Adult Protective Services twice in the last two years, some believe we are a ‘high conflict couple’ (we’re not, I learnt from here years ago not to JADE) even stating my reality is enough to trigger my h to accuse me of verbally abusing him.

My h has been on many different types of medication over the years with a variety of diagnoses, but this feature of his thinking has remained constant, only varying in intensity, never being eradicated.
Validation does not work for me with this, and yes in my honest opinion you will always be faced with your h’s distorted reality..

My line in the sand has just recently been crossed, which has made it easy to now decide that we have to live separately.
The line is that just recently he is now accusing and involving our s11 in his crazy distorted thinking. I have always been able to protect myself against this aspect of the disorder, but my son cannot, not even if I am running interference for him.

I did wonder when our son would become part of the dysfunction, perhaps kidding myself that he would not. Our son has always been split ‘good’ by his father, but in the process of becoming his own person our son is starting to assert himself and not accept his father’s behaviours anymore.

We are in a fortunate situation as my husband will be housed in supported living with lots of input from professionals, he will always be looked after, just not by me anymore.
I do expect my decision to cause my h to dysregulate and consequently there will be a sharp increase in accusations and allegations coming my way.

[formflier]

Paranoia used to be central to my relationship.  Usually my wife would find a "kernel" of truth and then run with it.

FF parked next to a new woman who started coming to church would lead to me carrying on an affair with this woman.  Because when she walked out of church I "avoided" her by walking away from her so as to not tip off my wife.  (ignoring the fact that I was walking over to speak to someone...)

Levi Love I would encourage you to start a new thread and we can get into some details about how you are doing.  "divorce dungeon" doesn't sound like a nice place.  I bet we can help...

FF

[Levi Love]

Thank Sweetheart & Formflier.

Sweetheart I am new to this and was confused about what you said:

On many occasions it has been believed by the professionals that are involved in his life, especially those who haven’t known him long. I have been referred to Adult Protective Services twice in the last two years, some believe we are a ‘high conflict couple’ (we’re not, I learnt from here years ago not to JADE) even stating my reality is enough to trigger my h to accuse me of verbally abusing him.


Hey Formflier,

I am not sure how to start a thread properly in the right spot. 

Thanks

[sweetheart]

Levi Love can you tell me what about the piece you highlighted that you don't understand and I will clarify it for you?

[Levi Love]

hello Sweetheart, sure.

(we’re not, I learnt from here years ago not to JADE)

[sweetheart]

Are you referring to JADE?

It’s an acronym meaning Justify, Argue/Attack, Defend, Explain.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0

[Levi Love]

Thanks Sweetheart,

  I read the whole thing immediately.   Very helpful. 

[formflier]

Do you have a new understanding of JADE? 

How does it relate to you being or not being a high conflict couple?

FF

[PeteWitsend]

I don't know if my uBPDXW would "imagine" things; for us it was more of a matter of projecting her own behavior or motivation on others, or the notorious re-writing history.

When projecting... an example was she once told me that she feared my mom would alienate her from our kids.  How?  My mom lived ~1500 miles away and was rarely allowed to speak to our kids (due to XW pressure) and saw them even less often, maybe once a year.   I learned over time that when I heard an unlikely story, this usually meant my XW was planning on doing that.

Sure enough, after our divorce I was planning a visit to see my family w/my kids & S4 told me "Mama said Grandma is mean to her and lies about her."  ... right.

When re-writing history, she would simply make things up to justify her outburts and behavior after the fact.  and there was never anything too absurd to claim, even things obviously false or verifiable, like a text message.  Typically she would pick &  escalate fights, then when I'd point out I had been sitting there minding my own business before she started screaming at me, she'd claim she only did that after I swore at her, or "looked arrogant" or "gave her the side-eye" etc. etc.  Then we could argue about whether I did that or not.

Sometimes her "re-writes" would be more extreme, and include more bizarre accusations.

Man, I am so glad I'm not married to her anymore!