Concerned about DD28 new rx for vyvanse

[Parents! Get help here!]

DD28 has admitted to me earlier this week that she does have cravings for drugs. Sometimes all she can think about. She had first appt with new pdoc today and he gave her rx for this stimulant - for ADHD. I know DD has history of ADHD as a child. Not sure it is accurate. She has never tolerated stimulants well, including meth. She gets very angry and aggressive when coming off. Even at age 4 on extremely small dose ritalin.

Questions on my mind tonight:

Is she really is planning to use meth and the rx for vyvanse will cover it on her UA's on her probation and work release program at jail.

Does she really needs the rx to help her focus and keep a job. She was fired this week from the second one after 2 weeks. She made it only one week at first job. Job required to stay out of regular jail and in work release alternative sentence program.

Does she feels desperate to lose weight and hopes rx will supress her appetite -- I think this was her motivation back in 2006 when I think she first started using meth. wanted to lose baby weight - gd was about 7 months old.

I really want to let the pdoc know about her drug use as she said she was not going to tell him. It is in her prior records at mental health center. Her case was closed last year. She did new intake as part of new program.

Am I worrying in vain? Powerless in this situation?

qcr

[qcarolr]

DD28 has admitted to me earlier this week that she does have cravings for drugs. Sometimes all she can think about. She had first appt with new pdoc today and he gave her rx for this stimulant - for ADHD. I know DD has history of ADHD as a child. Not sure it is accurate. She has never tolerated stimulants well, including meth. She gets very angry and aggressive when coming off. Even at age 4 on extremely small dose ritalin.

Questions on my mind tonight:

Is she really is planning to use meth and the rx for vyvanse will cover it on her UA's on her probation and work release program at jail.

Does she really needs the rx to help her focus and keep a job. She was fired this week from the second one after 2 weeks. She made it only one week at first job. Job required to stay out of regular jail and in work release alternative sentence program.

Does she feels desperate to lose weight and hopes rx will supress her appetite -- I think this was her motivation back in 2006 when I think she first started using meth. wanted to lose baby weight - gd was about 7 months old.

I really want to let the pdoc know about her drug use as she said she was not going to tell him. It is in her prior records at mental health center. Her case was closed last year. She did new intake as part of new program.

Am I worrying in vain? Powerless in this situation?

qcr

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Thursday]

Hi q- sounds like you have some new worries... . sorry to hear your DD got fired from her thrift store job. Do you know why? Was it a lack of focus or some other reason. Just to inform yourself, can you call the job, tell them you are her mother and ask why she got fired, how they perceived her, even how she did? Maybe you could get some insight and since she no longer works there, maybe they will tell you.

I know that crystal meth is very addictive and hard to recover from. So, her reports of cravings sound based on truth and grounded in reality. Perhaps she is seeking the RX stimulant to help ease the cravings and maybe you are correct that she wants the RX to mask going back onto meth.

Am I worrying in vain? Powerless in this situation?

To a certain extent, maybe all worry is in vain. As a mother, can you really stop worrying so long as your DD is struggling? I think the trick is to keep the worry from eating us up, from destroying our peace. Are you powerless? Your love for your DD is worth so much and with it you still have the power of your love for her. That is what you DO have. You know you cannot control her or her addiction.

If you believe there is a benefit to her pdoc knowing about her meth addiction, I cannot find any harm in telling the pdoc. I don't think it will necessarily change anything since the RX has already been prescribed and I assume already filled.

Can you ask your DD about these concerns for her motivations? Can you forge a new sort of relationship with her that is more "accepting" of her failings but gives you more of the truth so that you will at least be working with all of the facts? Maybe just present your questions without any sort of judgement, framed more as

I am curious

rather than

I am worried.

I don't know ... . it is all so hard to figure out. I am, however, making new inroads with my SD by revealing to her my curiosity about her thoughts and motivations since they are so different from mine. I am no longer in any position to have any control over what she does AND SD is in a very good frame of mind now... . letting her guard down a bit and I'm trying to find a way back in too... . so this sort of more open style of communication is on my mind and thus... . you can see where my reply to you is coming from. Nevermind that it is the middle of the night and I can't sleep!

Hang in there. You are in my thoughts and prayers sweetie... .

thurs

[qcarolr]

Thanks Thursday. I am curious. What a great opening phrase. DD knows i worry about everything anyway - that is a 'tune-out' phrase for her.

I have decided to keep alert. If I see her mood degrading - less anger control or raging -- then I will call and leave a message with her pdoc. I believe DD did talk with him about the aggressive history coming off stimulants. He told her the Vyvanse has the least tendency for this side effect.

DD was late to work - blamed the bus schedule - late many times. This will be the reason on her record for getting fired. Dh is really mad about it since I put some effort into helping her get through the store's bug-infested online system. The login only works about every 5th time, and then her application only showed up every 5th time she got on. It was a nightmare for both the manager at the store and for DD. Online stuff is already hard for DD when it is working as expected. GRRRRR.

My perceptions.

1. Dd wanted to walk from jail with a small group of friends who took a different bus when they all transferred. So she most likely missed the connection that would have gotten her across town on time. And there were two other routes she could have taken. I shared all the bus route info with her. She made her own choices.

Companionship is more important than anything else in Dd's world. I know this. Dh cannot imagine this value system. He is angry. I am sad and frustrated. DD knows what she is doing - she is not confused as I would prefer to believe.

2. DD felt slow and embarrassed in both the jobs she has had. Today she got a day cash job helping a woman pack up for a move. She said " I can't even to this right. I couldn't fold things the right way".

DD does not fold stuff in her own life. It is put in a pile or stuffed in a backpack. One reality is her motor control is impacted by her NLD -- her hands to not do what her brain tells them to do.

I gave her a ride from this job back to the jail today. I thought we had time to get her back on time. She wanted some food and a new bus pass for next month. (I had mentioned the bus pass yesterday and forgot to buy it this morning)  I said the bus pass could wait. Then we parked near the jail at a park, and she called in that she would be late as she missed her bus connection. You could hear their frustration on the other end. I was confused.

Then DD pulls out her day planner notebook and starts to fill out a daily time sheet for the jail. She is filling in a new job schedule request. As if she found a job today and is starting next Monday. She looked the address up on her phone. Then she texted someone who gave a a name and phone number to put down as the contact info.  So when the jail calls, this someone will confirm her new job!

DD knew from my comment that I did not approve of this. She kind of waved me off. I guess I did a good job of being 'curious'! Shook my head, half smile (a calming strategy), sit as observer. After all, I am nearly invisible when in the car with DD, esp if there is a friend with us (no friend today). Maybe I dissociate a bit to manage this without undue stress - kind of an intellectual researcher way of being present. Hmmm, this is very interesting community DD lives in.

She is willing to do whatever it takes, in this moment, to not be rolled back into jail.  The thought of it catching up with her later -- well that is later and to be coped with when it comes. No point in wasting energy on consequences now. [my imagined perception of what might be going on in DD's head]

When I shared this with dh - who got really angry about all of this and very protective of me - I said, "She is who she is and will do what she does. And I can choose to give her a ride or buy her a bus pass or pay a little of her rent, and continue to love her as honestly as I can express to her." Well, something like that was said. And he actually seemed to get what I was saying. He accepted this for me.

I am just very tired. Saw my pdoc today - am starting Zoloft to see if I can lift my depression. ANd pdoc said to stop taking ativan to sleep. I am getting old enough that the risks are really high for dementia and even sudden death. She said there is a new study, published 6 months ago, that show all th benzo class drugs are very dangerous in older people. My take on 'older' is someone getting on towards 80, not me getting on toward 60.  :)h is 63, his mom is in later stages of Alzhiemer's, and he is stopping the tiny dose of ativan he still takes for sleep TONIGHT.

I really appreciate having this bpdfamily to come to and share my story. Thanks for listening and caring.

qcr

[Thursday]

Keeping alert is def better than worrying! I have a bad worry habit also... . our period of diminished contact with SD helped me so much. It was like cutting a tie, this letting go of worry, and I am healthier for it. And I find myself having more empathy and more able to help my DH find a better relationship with SD (job ONE in my mind). I think your idea to wait and see how she handles things and then report to the pdoc is a good plan.

When you posted the other day it seemed like your DD was headed for firing for being late. It seems certain to me, having dealt with my SD and her blame game for so long, that your DD will probably not learn differently about responsibility until she is managing herself. It is such a hard place to get to... . or even to find a place for her to start. From over here, as a detached reader of your story, it seems like her being more in the system is providing a place to start but it is also like the starting gate is right next to a den of hungry wolves, waiting to devour her. It must be so hard to sit with her excuses and I can really see how frustrated your DH is with the situation. He sees your efforts and the damage done.

My SD has the same bugaboos about having companionship. Last year my DH got injured at work. He and I kept SD informed and we needed her help with fetching his car from the parking lot where he had left it and she needed to bring someone with her to maneuver two vehicles (hers and DH's) but she brought this stranger to DH's bedside in the emergency room. DH was in pain trying to be cordial to some stranger (and you know that sometimes the companion isn't really very... . savory (can't think of a better word). UGH. Over and over SD, when unemployed, would bring her unsavory friends to job interviews, she brought them family gatherings, invited them to meals we were paying for etc. We made a boundary about her not bringing over anyone we didn't already know when and if she showed up at out house. And we have to have notice if she is bringing someone we do know with her when she comes.d

DD knows what she is doing - she is not confused as I would prefer to believe.

Half of being more effective as her parent is knowing that she knows what she is doing. Is the other half understanding why? I called SD out on bringing the unsavory kid to the emergency room and she explained that she was so nervous and afraid of the hospital (read seeing her Dad in the hospital) she needed someone with her. I do need to remind myself in these situations that she really doesn't automatically think of the person on the receiving end of her decisions.

However, as she gets better she is gaining a smidge of empathy. And surprisingly, empathy is now more about her loved ones than strangers. 

It's sad to hear that your DD felt slow and embarrassed as we all know that is a normal way to feel when we start a new job. She will need to succeed with something to learn that this feeling goes away as we become more competent. So much of what they need to learn, so much of what they have missed is because they can't tolerate these negative feelings. Sounds like your DD may be self sabotaging in a way too. What do you think?

If your DD feels slow and unable to do something it is understandable that she would not want to continue to feel this with her thin skin and low self-esteem. Even if impacted by motor-skills she can still learn. I find that all of the short-cuts that SD utilizes to make her life easier really impact her functioning in the long run. I have no idea how to fix this except to point it out to her in a gentle sort of way... . and show her how to do things more than once.

Here is an example- SD always burned herself when taking something out of the oven (this is an example from when I first started living with her and DH) so she and DH decided that she shouldn't be the one to take things out of the oven. This was a decision that worked! but it didn't help either of them. He became chained to having to always be around when she made food, kept her dependent on him. He didn't mind. (this dynamic has been very hard to change!)

I felt like she needed to reprocess this task and we started with a little song about pot holders being our friends... . she loves goofy stuff like this. I got a magnet with a hook and we kept the pot holder on the hook stuck to the front of the oven. She learned to put the potholder back on the hook when she cleaned the kitchen... .

because I sat in the kitchen and did paperwork while she cleaned the kitchen when it was her turn... . and kept an eye on things for almost a year. I would make theatrical gestures and use an accent and say,

"Now, where do we keep the potholder? And why?"

Humor helps us... . for a long time it has held us together. It is like a glue that sticks information to the soft spots in her brain.

Then DD pulls out her day planner notebook and starts to fill out a daily time sheet for the jail. She is filling in a new job schedule request. As if she found a job today and is starting next Monday. She looked the address up on her phone. Then she texted someone who gave  a name and phone number to put down as the contact info.  So when the jail calls, this someone will confirm her new job!

DD knew from my comment that I did not approve of this. She kind of waved me off. I guess I did a good job of being 'curious'!

Maybe the curiosity about this particular situation could be a well timed question,

"I'm curious what will happen when the jail finds out you tricked them?" 

I think you have it nailed, what goes on in her head, but no harm in trying to reconnect the dots for her with your curiosity based questions. Maybe just asking the questions sets up new neural pathways to get her to figure out how to get what she wants (not being rolled back into jail)

And lastly, good for you, taking care of your health. I just had another birthday and I still think older is older than I am! Sorry you are feeling so tired. I keep my fingers crossed that you and most everyone on this site will catch a break.

thursday

[qcarolr]

My observation and listening to DD's comments is that working takes too much time away from be with a friend - whichever friend is available. So she had this guy that had turned quickly into 'bf' the week she was between job#1 and job#2. I described him on my other thread - the charismatic conman. When she started her new job, and he would not travel by bus and hour each way to spend her half hour lunch with her, this relationship faded quickly. So she connected with a new guy that took the morning bus half way, then he continued north and she continued south. Seems they both lost their jobs about the same day.

As I ponder all this, it is just a continuation of the dysfunctional community that DD has been attracted to for so many years. Even before she became homeless. In my mind I can rationalize in all kinds of different languages (ie. recovery, psychology, sociology, neuroscience... . ) the WHY of DD's life. Does describing and analyzing to give me something to hold onto as explanation really help? Or does it just feed my kind of obsessive thinking and planning for how she needs to make her life better. The ever present paradox of support vs. enabling (recovery language).

Being at the gate with the wolves  is a good description. DD like the wolves though, and prefers to run with them than to stay on the path. It is more exciting. It is known to her and maybe more comfortable, at least in the beginning with a new pack. I have to let go of the consequences of her choices. I did attempt to ask her some questions about how she was planning to pay rent with a pretend job. She gave me the 'oh mom' look without comment. Maybe I don't really want to know the details of her plan. Or she has not details of her plan. But with the support of someone willing to vouch for her pretend job, there is a bigger picture here that she is giving me a peek into. She did not have to show me all this in the car. She could have gotten out and done all this at a table in the park.

We tried the boundaries around not bringing her friends. She was very defiant about it, and this led to living in the depths of h**l in 2013.

There are supportive job opportunities for DD through the mental health center. I have tried a few times to get her connected with this support. She is not interested and fears being labeled as 'retarded' by her friends. The impacts of the slow processing speed are a very real part of her LD. At least based on all the testing, with this score at 2 out of 200, repetition does not make things faster for her. And maybe this is showing my own limiting bias having spent so much time advocating for her as a child.

We will see how next week goes. Gd is out of school and summer camp does not start for another week. I have told DD I will not available except early Tuesday (to drive her to 7:30am appt) and Friday (for an 11:45 appt). I know she will call to ask and I will say no. And so far she has been texting back "OK" when I have to decline her while she is in this program. This will be a test of the effects of the Vyvanse as well. Testing her self-control and anger levels.

qcr

[peaceplease]

It has been awhile since I have been over to the parents board, here.  qcr, my daughter happened to lose two jobs in the past month.  The first one, she was terminated after they got her background check.  She told them in interview that she had a retail theft charge in 2007.   However, her conviction was in 2008.  They told her that if it was seven years that she would be okay, as it does not show up on report.  It show up, and she failed the background check.  She was in training for a few days, then let go.

She came home, and went on phone and followed up on job she applied for, previously.  She was scheduled an interview within five days.  She was hired.  This past Thursday, she was terminated for lying on her application.  She applied online, and there was a question that asked if she ever worked for them before.  She replied no, as she did not work at this location.  However, they were asking if she ever worked for the chain.  She was not being purposely deceptive, but misunderstood the question.  She does have problem with filling out forms, and often needs help, too.  

The other managers really liked my daughter, and were surprised that she was terminated by this certain manager.  The one guy told her to talk to the head boss, as he believed that her being terminated was unfair.  He knew that my daughter worked for chain in another location about nine years, ago.  My daughter talked about it in training, so she was not purposely lying on application.  She feels like she has really let down her son.  She dreads him hearing that she was fired, again.  

I agree that her wanting a prescription for ADHD medication can be either of her wanting something that will stimulate her, or a prescription that will hide her meth use.  They both would show up under amphetamine on drug test panel.  My dd gets wicked when she comes off Adderall, too.    

How long have you been taking Ativan?  I am dependent on sleep meds.  They are not benzos, but I can not sleep without them.   I do worry about developing dementia, as my memory has been declining.  I know that it is a normal part of aging,(slower recall) but I think these meds age the brain quicker.   My mother has dementia, but she is 89, and it is expected that 50% of people in their 80s will develop dementia.    I agree with what age "elderly" is anymore.    The older I get, the number goes up.  

Happy to hear that you are taking care of yourself, too.  I hope you have a great summer with gd.

peaceplease

[qcarolr]

peaceplease

I think the system is broken by too much information. The data is given so much priority and the person's life can be destroyed. There is no compassion in the workplace of large companies any longer! Or things are as they have been for a long time, there is just an easy tool now.

I do have to say that Savers, where DD worked, put in a lot of energy into getting over hurdles bugs in their new computer system caused. They accepted DD in spite of her extensive misdemeanor record. I am very sad and frustrated that she is not able to show up.

Ativan. I have been on varying doses for about 25 years. I have not used much on the past 10 years. Only .5mg at bedtime to get me to sleep. The same for dh.  I have used it as needed when feeling really agitated during the day - even .25mg helps me. The less you take, the more effective a tiny dose is when needed. Dh was taking more during the day until he got his new boss that treats him with respect and trust. Dh also went on Lexapro about that same time for his social anxiety.

Yoga would probably work as well - trying to figure out why I resist going or doing the DVD i have at home.

qcr