Not being defensive in the face of irrationality

[Parents! Get help here!]

Hi, Dake's wife here.  Sometimes it's easy to ignore irrational accusations, like when I don't let my daughter stay home from school and she tells me I'm an awful parent.

Other times, I have extreme difficulty not acting defensive because of the level of how illogical she is being. Yesterday, she wanted me to drive to a particular supermarket 15 minutes away (passing 4 closer ones) she she could look and see if there was something she wanted because we have "nothing" she can eat. She didn't have anything specific she was looking for and claimed that none of the closer stores would have what she wanted.  I said no, and that I would take her to one of the others or we could look at what we have at home (including many items she  has specifically requested in the past).  After this, she did a lot of name calling and was telling me that I have a legal obligation to feed her, which I was not doing. I know what NOT to do (partly because I did it yesterday, partly because I know arguing with logic when her brain is in such a state is counterproductive), but I don't know what TO do instead.  I spent a good portion of the evening sitting in the driveway in my car; although that was more peaceful it was unfair that I was in the driveway while she was inside watching Netflix. I mean, I don't think I could help her de-escalate at all-- unless I completely gave in to her every whim and I doubt that would actually last long.

In the abstract, I know that arguing and being defensive is useless. But I don't know what to do in the moment other than flee.

[Mrs. Dake]

Hi, Dake's wife here.  Sometimes it's easy to ignore irrational accusations, like when I don't let my daughter stay home from school and she tells me I'm an awful parent.

Other times, I have extreme difficulty not acting defensive because of the level of how illogical she is being. Yesterday, she wanted me to drive to a particular supermarket 15 minutes away (passing 4 closer ones) she she could look and see if there was something she wanted because we have "nothing" she can eat. She didn't have anything specific she was looking for and claimed that none of the closer stores would have what she wanted.  I said no, and that I would take her to one of the others or we could look at what we have at home (including many items she  has specifically requested in the past).  After this, she did a lot of name calling and was telling me that I have a legal obligation to feed her, which I was not doing. I know what NOT to do (partly because I did it yesterday, partly because I know arguing with logic when her brain is in such a state is counterproductive), but I don't know what TO do instead.  I spent a good portion of the evening sitting in the driveway in my car; although that was more peaceful it was unfair that I was in the driveway while she was inside watching Netflix. I mean, I don't think I could help her de-escalate at all-- unless I completely gave in to her every whim and I doubt that would actually last long.

In the abstract, I know that arguing and being defensive is useless. But I don't know what to do in the moment other than flee.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[StressedOutDaily]

Hi Dake's wife...great question, I will be watching to see what others have to say.  My D16 often complains that we have nothing to eat (of course there is plenty of food in the house, and like your daughter food that she has specifically requested)...and goes off on me in a similar fashion. 

[livednlearned]

It sounds like two issues. One is not feeling defensive in the face of emotional/psychological abuse, and the other is feeling that you have to flee your home when she's dysregulated.

Feeling defensive can be reframed as an important sign that your nervous system senses a threat or requires self-care. When you start to sense that your alarm bells are ringing, how long before you leave? I wonder if it might help to begin protecting yourself earlier in the process, not only to practice self-care but to also begin shaping your daughter's behavior.
Your first priority is to have privacy in your own home. It's your right to have this and is especially necessary when you have someone who is verbally abusive and mentally ill living with you. You also have the right to dignity and not be psychologically abused. This is hard to put into practice but recognizing that it is part of your right as a parent can help with some of the other skills that follow.

As for the other issue, how would you feel about wearing noise-canceling headphones and staying in a room with a locked door when your daughter is verbally abusive?

When SD21 came to live with us I created a sanctuary in the house so that I had a place to recharge and manage my stress levels. It took a while to shape her behavior and she still tests boundaries but overall there has been incremental and positive change.

[Mirsa]

Hi Dake's wife,

I'm not sure what I have to add, but my DD17 does this all the time.  She has an awful lot of rules regarding what mom's should do...lot's of requirements for me plus a huge sense of entitlement.  One of her favorite strategies is to act outraged and offended when I set a limit or boundary.  She then twists the story, tells a bunch of people the altered version in order to garner sympathy, and then makes sure to report back about how many people agreed with her that I am so incredibly unreasonable.   This ultimately led to her moving out five months ago when I refused to allow her new boyfriend, aged 21, to 'hang out' (have sex) in her bedroom with her.  She now lives with her father who does allow this.  So my home is suddenly peaceful, but I really can relate to the little vignette you shared, after living it for the past three years.

It's manipulative and exhausting, and as you say, reasoning with her is utterly pointless.   I tended to use the broken record technique of calmly and quietly repeating, "That's not going to work for me.  Would you like to go to the closest store or return home?"   Sadly, she continued with her bullying tactics, and by the time she moved out, I was saying, "I've answered you twice.  A third time is bullying and unfair to me.  I'll make the decision for us now."  And I'll admit to quite a bit of exasperation at this point. 

Best wishes, cause it sure as heck is never easy.  They're relentless.

[Skip]

I spent a good portion of the evening sitting in the driveway in my car; although that was more peaceful it was unfair that I was in the driveway while she was inside watching Netflix. I mean, I don't think I could help her de-escalate at all-- unless I completely gave in to her every whim and I doubt that would actually last long.

It takes a great deal of strength and confidence to deal with a child with BPD.  Here are two really helpful articles:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/support-child-therapy
https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

Do not tolerate abuse.

Do not tolerate abusive treatment such as tantrums, threats, hitting and spitting.

Walk away and return to discuss the issue later. Frankly, tantrums are not tolerable. There is a range of ways to set limits on them.

A mild gesture would be to walk out of the room to avoid rewarding the tantrum with attention.

A more aggressive gesture would be to call an ambulance. Many families fear taking the latter step because they do not want an ambulance in front of their home, or they do not want to incur the wrath of the person having the tantrum.

When torn by such feelings, one must consider the opposing issues. Safety may be a concern when someone is violent and out of control. Most people would agree that safety takes priority over privacy. Furthermore, by neglecting to get proper medical attention for out-of-control behavior, one may turn a silent ear to it. This only leads to further escalation.

The acting out is a cry for help. If a cry for help is not heard, it only becomes louder.

Don't threaten.

Be cautious about using threats and ultimatums. They are a last resort.

Do not use threats and ultimatums as a means of convincing others to change. Give them only when you can and will carry through. Let others - including professionals - help you decide when to give them. When one family member can no longer tolerate another member’s behavior, he or she may reach the point of giving an ultimatum. This means threatening to take action if the other person does not cooperate. For example, when a daughter will not take a shower or get out of bed much of the day, an exasperated parent may want to tell her that she will have to move out if she does not change her ways. The parent may hope that fear will push her to change.

At the same time, the parent may not be serious about the threat. When the daughter continues to refuse to cooperate, the parent may back down, proving that the threat was an empty one. When ultimatums are used in this way they become useless, except to produce some hostility.

Thus, people should only give ultimatums when they seriously intend to act on them. In order to be serious about the ultimatum, the person giving it probably has to be at the point where he feels unable to live with the other person’s behavior.

Anything in the article resonate with you?