So true that logic, facts and common sense mean little to a person living by perceptions, moods and feelings.  Here's my story about demanded apologies.

About a year or so before my marriage imploded (with a police visit and events afterward) I gave in to my then-spouse's demands that I apologize, often for what she resurrected from years before, even though I'd already 'apologized' for them.  I gave in.  I would apologize for whatever she demanded.  Yeah, to keep the peace.  Soon she was demanding I had left something out of my apology and insisted I apologize yet again.  While I'm not generally this sort of person, I started leaving out portions of what she demanded.  Sure enough, I had to start over.  Once or twice I recall it was up to a half dozen times I had to restate my apology but I kept leaving out different segments. And she never caught on!

Finally, after months, I told her (a new Boundary for me) that henceforth I would only apologize for what I decided merited an apology.  And just once, not over and over as she would rehash past triggers she had never let go.  Yes, that wasn't received well but I couldn't share the crazy either.

I've always wondered about that hearsay that the disorder lessens over time is because eventually the children are grown and gone.  My marriage failed, or at least much sooner, because we had a child.  Her biggest childhood trauma was with her stepfather and so when we had a child I morphed in her perceptions from husband to father.

It's possible you did the best anyone could do in this situation. Validation may help to decrease the drama in the moment but it's not possible to control what another person does. It was her choice to pursue it.

Validation won't change distorted thinking and in your case, it was to the point that the relationship didn't continue. That's not a wrong thing-it was a situation that wasn't repairable, but not all relationships are repairable. The distorted thinking was a factor in the situation- you couldn't change it- but we can't change how someone else thinks.

If you do plan on leaving, even if it's temporary, I would speak to an attorney beforehand, and have plans on how to file for divorce and manage child custody up front. 

Physically leaving often triggers the pwBPD and they may escalate things to such an extent that you have to file for divorce to protect yourself and your kids at that point, so it's better to have this lined up beforehand than be scrambling to find an attorney on top of whatever insanity she's creating in your life.

Get as much information as you can about what life would be like if you divorce and if you don't. 

I think it's reasonable to assume things will at least be as bad as they are now if you remain married, and could only get worse; they will not get better on their own. 

I recall discussions here about BPD possibly lessening over time, as people get less emotional over time, or at least the emotional fluctuations get less severe.  I don't know if that's true.  There are plenty of stories here from older posters (post age 60 or so) of these problems continuing into old age, and then facing added complications of having to cope with health problems related to aging, on top of the BPD.  So "toughing it out" in hopes of improvement over time is a bad bet. 

It might be helpful to pay a local attorney for an hour consultation to understand how things would go if you do divorce, in terms of custody, child support, alimony, etc.  Of course, things could get nasty and divorce is never pleasant,  but at least then you'd be able to weigh your options better. 

Do not fall for any "free consultation"... you get what you pay for, and legal advice is no different.  If you find the attorney you're meeting with is pushing you to file, get an opinion from another. 

I hope she does too. If she's recently lost her husband, this is a stressful time for her.

I think a part of her reaction is the "shame" about something not being OK being brought to light- by your decision to move near your son and not her. But this reaction also confirms why you made the decision.

One of the unspoken "rules" in our family was to maintain the appearance that all was "normal" at home. We were not ever to mention there was anything "wrong" with BPD mother. BPD mother was able to "mask" her issues in public for the most part.

When my father needed assistance, the "normal" expected situation was that he was being cared for by his wife. But instead, at home, BPD mother was dysregulated.  Again, I think it is wise that you don't put yourself in a situation where this might happen.

Reading about the Karpman triangle can help you to understand the dynamics. BPD mother ( and I think pwBPD in general) perceived herself in victim perspective. Even if the motivation for a decision was not directly intended to hurt her, she could perceive it as her being attacked, and then retailiate in anger.

To your D, and truthfully- you chose the son as a more secure situation for you.  This is the reality of the situation. However, to your D, the other side of this is that she knows and you know, there are issues. She may feel shame at this. But compromising your own well being isn't a wise solution.

We had a lesser than this situation but it illustrated the feelings. My BPD mother disliked my father's family but we kids were close to them. She and my father's family were cordial to each other for the sake of my father. After he passed, I assumed they'd have little to do with each other. Some time later, they planned a family get together, and invited us kids but not BPD mother. We  knew she'd get upset to learn we were attending. We didn't want to hurt her feelings but we wanted to see them.

Understandably- she'd be upset that we made plans to visit them instead of coming to visit her. Also, by her not being included- brought to light the relationship.

She was very angry when we told her. But to not go to see them, in order to avoid her feeling this way would mean we'd miss out on seeing them.

How she expressed her feelings was not direct. (sometimes what is said as the reason isn't the actual reason). She said she was angry that she wasn't invited. This didn't make sense. I said "but you don't like them and you wouldn't have gone anyway" and she replied "but they should have invited me as your father's wife".

She then, said she wasn't going to speak to us. She also said she wasn't going to send my kids anymore presents for their birthdays. I told her that was OK- it wasn't about the presents for them anyway- we don't expect them. Several weeks later she called, acting normal, as if nothing had happened. I hope your D comes around too.

To make the comparison- your D did feel hurt at not being chosen. (but this was a choice in your best interest, just as we chose to visit my father's family- because we wanted to see them). It also brought to light there were issues- behavioral issues with your D, and in my situation- the strained relationship between my mother and my father's family. Neither decision was intended to be hurtful but to the pwBPD it felt that way, and they responded that way. Hopefully with your D, she will come around in time.

Unfortunately, where we live, bribery is alive and well in the legal system and the culture still doesn't value men and women equally.

We were supposed to draw up an agreement saying that everything we own is split 50/50, but I never signed it.

The one blessing is that we live in a very small community where word travels fast, and his reputation is VERY important to him. His culture is also very prideful, so I believe he would want to appear to be being fair.

Now I just need to think about how to keep this relatively calm and civil, because he also is very big on revenge.

I read your "rant" -- which it really isn't -- a few times. You don't seem to be asking for a reaction or response, but I'm going to post anyway. Everything I'm writing is in good will to you, so I hope you take it that way.

You should reach out to a professional therapist if you haven't already. I realize you're between jobs and such, but there may be free services somewhere online or in your community.

I say this for two reasons:

First, you may be hurting more than you suggest even in the post, and I think talking to someone professional about it could help.

Second, you're only 25 and have had now had four children, including two with your wife with BPD. I think it's important to think not only of your own health and welfare in all this but also your children's. If this is a challenging time for you, it must be for them, as well. The difference is you're a young adult, with some life experience and understanding. They are not.

A lot of the rest sounds familiar -- the outbursts, the arguing, the triangulation with others to keep you isolated or off balance. None of that is unusual when involved with someone with BPD (or CPTSD, anxiety, etc.). The degree of severity, though, suggests she may well be comorbid with other issues. You suggest psychopathy (or similar), and if so, that would be important to discuss with a professional -- not for them to try to diagnose her from afar, which they won't, but for advice on how you might proceed if, indeed, they have additional issues. Her capacity for violence, for example, is a big red flag.

You don't say she's bisexual, but if I read correctly, she moved in and tried to start a relationship with the mother of your other children? Is that correct? You don't exactly seem fazed by this. I'm not trying to pry, but is that because you were aware of her sexual preferences? Are you and/or she involved in an alternative lifestyle?

Again, I'm not trying to pry nor judge. Sexuality between consenting adults is their business. But I'm wondering if there is a larger relationship dynamic than just you and her -- that is, you, her, and your ex or others. I say this because you say she hates both her children with you and your children with your ex (if I read your statement correctly).

That's a lot of baggage, and the dynamic is confusing since if she feels that way about the children, why would your ex allow her to move in with her? Who has custody of the children with that ex? There's something missing in the details that makes understanding that dynamic -- and how it might be affecting the children, in particular -- digestible.

At the same time, I don't know that it's unusual for someone with BPD to have or claim to have an attraction to both sexes. At various points, mine did. But she would waffle on this. For instance, at one time, she claimed she'd never been with another woman, but then at other times, she intimated she had. With someone with BPD (or CPTSD, anxiety, etc.), it's not always clear when they are being honest versus saying what they think you want to hear -- or when they are falsely remembering something. Plus, it's been suggested, someone with BPD (etc.) may experience such intense fears of abandonment, they will use their sexuality regardless of sex or gender to get what they want.

I'll reiterate, I don't mean to be hung up on sexuality. But there's something missing here. She triangulates with your ex and family but then wants to move in with your ex, too. Is that all part of the triangulation or is it her BPD (etc.)? That part is quite fuzzy.

Regardless of whether or not all this is part of your lifestyle, I'd strongly recommend focusing on yourself and your children. That is, getting or staying healthy --including avoiding the toxicity with your wife, at least to the degree you can -- and on the health and welfare of your children. What happens now can have a profound impact on them for the rest of their lives. Whatever battled your wife is fighting should get your sympathy, but only to the degree you understand it's her battle. Your health and the health of your children is your responsibility. Good luck, and I mean that.

Thanks so much for your insights. They’ve certainly helped me feel less guilt. For years I’ve been in fear of her reactions as I worry about what she might potentially do, though now that she’s a mother I don’t think she would do anything to jeopardize her ability to raise and be with them.

My daughter is in therapy herself and for a few months, at my request and on my dime, we went to therapy together but it became clear that it was going nowhere and she expressed that it was taking time away from her ability to be with her children so we stopped. As for her therapy, I think she’s likely just looking for validation and is smart enough to disguise herself when she speaks with her therapist. Since writing my post I have reached out to her via text and email trying to acknowledge her feelings and my role in her unhappiness but haven’t received any response as yet. Additionally, my grandchildren, who previously called almost nightly for bedtime stories have not called at all.

I know staying the course of moving near our son is the best decision for us. Unfortunately,  my daughter wasn’t even willing to hear that the time split between staying near her and staying near him would be about 40/60 when now we’re only there near her 25% of the time, though I don’t think that would have be good enough anyhow. My grandchildren have no close, solid relationship to anyone other than my daughter at this point and I’m afraid that losing us so soon after their father left will be extremely damaging to them. I know if she continues in this direction that we can petition the court for visitation rights but if they’ve been poisoned against us I don’t know if that would be in their best interest.

I hope she comes around. I’m finding it unbelievably difficult to bear the loss.

I’m so glad I found this forum. The support you’ve given me truly helps and makes me feel less alone.

Holidays do seem to trigger more extreme behavior.  The end of my marriage came on a Sunday when only emergency responders were available but it's not always a holiday crisis.

Right now on a holiday and heading into a weekend, you may have to depend on emergency responders if you need help if you can't manage to handle the next few days.

Be aware that calling in resources can backfire if you're not previously prepared.  In my case I had been recording my ex's aggressive tantrums (quietly, not waving anything in her face) for months.  I had a real fear that if an incident happened, then I'd be the one accused.  After all, I'm a man and she's a woman. Sure enough, when the police arrived, she claimed I was the bad guy.  The officer asked me to hand my preschooler (quietly sobbing in my arms) over to his mother and "step away".  When I finally did get a divorce lawyer months later he was surprised I wasn't carted off since that's policy in my area.  Two good things: (1) Our son clung tighter to me and wouldn't go to his mother so they just left.  My son saved me that day. (2) Once I had the opportunity to download my digital audio recording where where she had threatened me, the tables turned and she faced potential consequences for her aggression.

I prepared myself that if anyone questioned why I was recording then I'd explain I needed to confirm I wasn't the aggressive one.  It was hopefully impossible for her to claim she was actually the victim when she was ranting and raging.

Lastly, if you do need to exit, do so as calmly as possible and do try to take any minor children with you.  Phrase it as going to a park, restaurant or some other activity to defuse the incident.  You may be able to return after she's reset.  If that doesn't work, ponder whether you can call a trusted friend to come over.  Often people will control themselves somewhat if there are witnesses present.