Delighted to find this group

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Hello All,

I have a 32 year old younger sister who has been recently diagnosed with BPD. She has had it all along her growing up years. We( Myself and my parents) had  observed these abnormal traits all along but we just did not know the name of the disorder. She had seen psychiatrists a couple of times but again we did not follow up regularly. About a year and half ago we insisted that she see a psychiatrist regularly. After meeting two different psychiatrists we were told that she could be a BPD.

My parents have had to bear the brunt of the entire set of problems she kept throwing over the years( it continues even to this day ). I have been in and out of the family for my personal reasons. Currently its my parents who live with her and face her day in day out.

She gets voilent , throws things, shouts and abuses, adamently refuses to take any medicines, tries hard to prove that others were wrong and she is right.  

She has always had problems in building any type relationships. She failed at it misrabley. She has never been able to earn a good friend till date, not even average friend. She has terrible things to tell about all the people she has met in her entire life. Blames others for all her failures. Never manages to get anything right. Has attempted suicide atleast twice( which we thought was just to grab attention).  Has undergone two terrible divorces. Each marriage not lasting for more than 18 months. She has a child form her first marriage.

Currently, my parents , my nephew who is 6 years old, and my BPD sister all stay together. My parents now are at the fag end of their lives and are struggling with a BPD daughter and they also have a daunting task of bringing up a child. They now are going through their toughest phase of their lives.

We have been told that illness is going to persist. There is harldly any chance that she will get better.She is on mood-stabilizers and anti-psychotics ( for the one last year )

All these years we have made a mistake in the way we managed her. We always tried to 'correct' her. 'Mend' Her. We have slowly learnt to 'live' with her. And now we are learning to look at her as a person with a 'problem' and we learning to 'deal' with it.

I am here to get some bits of help and pass it on to my parents who are having a rather pitiable last few years. Would like to help them in whatever way I can to deal with their BPD daughter.

I am delighted to have found this group. Big Hello to all of you!

Cheers

SS

[sahanasandeep]

Hello All,

I have a 32 year old younger sister who has been recently diagnosed with BPD. She has had it all along her growing up years. We( Myself and my parents) had  observed these abnormal traits all along but we just did not know the name of the disorder. She had seen psychiatrists a couple of times but again we did not follow up regularly. About a year and half ago we insisted that she see a psychiatrist regularly. After meeting two different psychiatrists we were told that she could be a BPD.

My parents have had to bear the brunt of the entire set of problems she kept throwing over the years( it continues even to this day ). I have been in and out of the family for my personal reasons. Currently its my parents who live with her and face her day in day out.

She gets voilent , throws things, shouts and abuses, adamently refuses to take any medicines, tries hard to prove that others were wrong and she is right.  

She has always had problems in building any type relationships. She failed at it misrabley. She has never been able to earn a good friend till date, not even average friend. She has terrible things to tell about all the people she has met in her entire life. Blames others for all her failures. Never manages to get anything right. Has attempted suicide atleast twice( which we thought was just to grab attention).  Has undergone two terrible divorces. Each marriage not lasting for more than 18 months. She has a child form her first marriage.

Currently, my parents , my nephew who is 6 years old, and my BPD sister all stay together. My parents now are at the fag end of their lives and are struggling with a BPD daughter and they also have a daunting task of bringing up a child. They now are going through their toughest phase of their lives.

We have been told that illness is going to persist. There is harldly any chance that she will get better.She is on mood-stabilizers and anti-psychotics ( for the one last year )

All these years we have made a mistake in the way we managed her. We always tried to 'correct' her. 'Mend' Her. We have slowly learnt to 'live' with her. And now we are learning to look at her as a person with a 'problem' and we learning to 'deal' with it.

I am here to get some bits of help and pass it on to my parents who are having a rather pitiable last few years. Would like to help them in whatever way I can to deal with their BPD daughter.

I am delighted to have found this group. Big Hello to all of you!

Cheers

SS

[Phoenix.Rising]

  sahanasandeep,

I like your screen name.  I'm sorry you've had such a rough time with your sister, but I'm glad she received a diagnosis because there are solutions.  Your sister must be willing to want the help, however.  In the meantime, there are a lot of things you and your parents can do to make things better for yourselves.

Here is some great information to hopefully get your started on recovery:

Video-What is Borderline Personality Disorder?

Supporting a Loved-one with Borderline Personality Disorder

TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth

Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it

Phoenix.Rising

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, sahanasandeep & I would like to join Phoenix.Rising in welcoming you to this site. Phoenix has given you some great links to read, and they have wonderfully helpful information that you can use for your own relationship with your sister, and can pass along to your parents to help them, too. It's not easy to deal with someone you love with BPD, but it can be made easier once we learn the communication tools and techniques that are in those links. I'm so sorry for the trauma that you, your parents and your nephew are going through... .it sounds really tough!

I'm here because of my own adult son (36) who was just recently diagnosed with BPD, and I can assure you that once I learned the tools of Validation, S.E.T., Boundaries and Radical Acceptance, my whole family's life turned around and things really have gotten better! Once I learned how his brain works, and changed the way I communicated with him, he then changed the way he reacted and related to me, and things improved between us immediately! These techniques can be learned by you, your parents and even your nephew... .Please keep posting your story, asking your questions, and reading all you can on this site; there really is light at the end of the tunnel... .

[sahanasandeep]

Heartfelt thanks to both of you Phoenix.Rising and rapt Reader.

It was inspiring to read your posts. I would be going through these posts in detail and pass on the info to my parents.

The need of the hour now is definitely to radically change the way we look at my sister and the way we interact with her. To approach her in a more professional manner and accept that she has a problem which needs to be handled.

Like it happens in a few other cases that I read on the forum there is usually one more more people who would be in denial of the problem. This is apart from BPD himself or herself.

Both my parents were unwilling to accept that there was a problem with their daughter despite countless number of times when she has behaved abnormally.

But now my mother understands that she should deal with the problem. My dad to an extents also understands although sometimes he tends to take it eazy.

Offlate my sister has been a little smooth going. No major untoward incidents and she is taking drugs fairly regularly... .oh I forgot to mention there was a sudden outburst of emotion a couple of days ago when she started saying she wants to get married again(two divorces already!) The agrument went on for a while and she began strongly insisting that a guy be found for her by my parents for her immediate marriage(remember in india its the parents who play a bigger role in in choosing a life partner) . Luckliy the enthusiasm waned down after a couple of hours. My mom did a good job in pacifiying her and helped her calm down.

I have gone though the SET technique. Now, next time there is a problem like this SET would be a nice thing to apply . Right?

Again Thanks for all the support. It really has lifted my morale.

Thanks

Sandeep

[Rapt Reader]

The need of the hour now is definitely to radically change the way we look at my sister and the way we interact with her. To approach her in a more professional manner and accept that she has a problem which needs to be handled.

I have gone though the SET technique. Now, next time there is a problem like this SET would be a nice thing to apply. Right?

Hi, sahanasandeep and welcome back! 

You really seem to have gotten on the right track here on figuring out how to deal with your sister. Here's the information on Radical Acceptance for family members that you are looking for, and I will say that this knowledge alone has really changed the way I look at and understand my BPD loved ones. It's great you are interested in learning and applying this!

You are right; the S.E.T. technique is perfect for the type of situation you are describing regarding your sister's recent dysregulation. In fact, I use S.E.T. for every situation I can these days; even before a dysregulation occurs. The information at this link: Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it will also be useful in learning how to approach your sister, and the best way to interact with her.

Sometime when you have time, you may want to check out the Links to the right-hand margin of this page; there is so much information that can lead you to the better understanding of your sister--and how to interact with her--that you are looking for. Thanks so much for the update, and please keep telling us your story and asking your questions. We'll be here for you when you need us!

[Phoenix.Rising]

sahanasandeep,

Excellent job in using S.E.T.  This is hard work and takes practice.  Keep reading and posting. 

[sahanasandeep]

Hello,

Radical Acceptance is never easy. My parents at times tend to forget that it is a patient they are dealing with and treat her like a daughter. They take to advising somtimes without being able to control themselves. Its tough to keep reminding yourself that you are dealing here with a person who is faced with a problem, an incurable one. They end up throwing little pieces of advises at her like " Spend time with the child" " Dont make unnecessary spends" " get up a little early so that you can leave home on time" etc etc... These things terribly backfire when as it has on every previous ocassion. It is hard for them but I must say my parents are slowly getting there. I must admit that these 'advises' have drastcically gone down in the last year or so. Almost 70%. This has made conditions 70% better.

I have a couple of questions

1) She complains of depressions every now and then, comes home from everyday and collapses on the bed, dosent feel like doing much. All she tries to do is to grab some attention, feels no one is interested in talking to her. This has been there for a while. Want to know  if frequent bouts of depression is normal in pwBPDs

2) It has been almost 55 days since she last mensturated. She has been avoiding going to a gynec. We have been trying to convince her and havent been sucessful. Could this be the side effect of drugs?

She is currently on Risperidone 10 mg per day

Thanks a lot for taking time to reply to my earlier posts and all teh help I am getting from here.

[P.F.Change]

Greetings, sahanasandeep.

1) She complains of depressions every now and then, comes home from everyday and collapses on the bed, dosent feel like doing much. All she tries to do is to grab some attention, feels no one is interested in talking to her. This has been there for a while. Want to know  if frequent bouts of depression is normal in pwBPDs

Yes, depression is common in people with BPD. If she is feeling depressed, it is a matter for her to discuss with her psychiatrist or therapist. Since she has a history of attempting suicide, it will be important to take her depression and any mention of suicide seriously--call the professionals.

2) It has been almost 55 days since she last mensturated. She has been avoiding going to a gynec. We have been trying to convince her and havent been sucessful. Could this be the side effect of drugs?

She is currently on Risperidone 10 mg per day

Again, this would be a question for her doctors. I can understand your concern and that you want to offer support to your parents. On the other hand, your sister is 32 years old... .it seems a little odd to me that her older brother knows the details of her menstrual cycle. If this is the norm in India, please forgive my ignorance. But I am concerned that you may be a little more involved than necessary on this one. What do you think?

Are your parents receiving any outside support in coping with your sister's behaviors, such as therapy for themselves? What about you--how are you looking after yourself? Have you found any situations to practice using S.E.T.?

Wishing you peace,

PF

[sahanasandeep]

1) Hello P F change,

Thanks a lot again for your response.

>> >

Again, this would be a question for her doctors. I can understand your concern and that you want to offer support to your parents. On the other hand, your sister is 32 years old... .it seems a little odd to me that her older brother knows the details of her menstrual cycle. If this is the norm in India, please forgive my ignorance. But I am concerned that you may be a little more involved than necessary on this one. What do you think?

>> >>

     No I DO NOT invlove myself in talking about these things with my sister directly. My sister talks about these things to my mother and my mother told me about this in a subtle manner. My mother wanted to know if these are side effects of the drug. Since my sister is refusing to see any kind of doctor these days it got me worried and decided to ask here in the forum. And No its definitely not the norm to talk about these things directly. And I d hate getting invloved in these things.

>> >>

Are your parents receiving any outside support in coping with your sister's behaviors, such as therapy for themselves? What about you--how are you looking after yourself? Have you found any situations to practice using S.E.T.?

>> >>

No, my parents are not recieving any form of outside support. I am trying to get them introduced to techniques that I am reading here on the BPD forum. The last time she met a psychiarist was almost 6 months ago and since then she has been refusing any form of consultations. Its quite a challenge on my parents part to give her medicines everyday. tolerating her temper tantrums is another story altogether.

I do not stay with my parents and my sister. I stay in a different city with my wife and all my interactions with my parents and my sister are over the phone. I do make it a point to call them almost everyday to keep myself in touch. I have tried to apply the SET a couple of times. But I am unable to judge how effective it was.

But then overall I can say that the acceptance levels of my parents is slowly going up. Thats the priority now and thats what I mostly talk about when I speak to my parents.

I am not sure if there are any therapies in India suitable for my parents . Would there be any? . About a couple of months back I insisted my parents to see the psychiatrist on their own. They were advised that my parents start accepting the problem as a first step completely. But then the Doctor did not particuarly mention about any therapies.

Meanwhile my mother did go to a yoga camp to fight some of her own anxites, mental tensions and fear. When I say fear its the fear of how they should deal with the situation if my sister were to resort to any sought of violence suddenly. This is somethings my mother constantly worries about.



Thanks

SS[/quote]

[P.F.Change]

Thanks for your reply and the clarification.

It is certainly stressful having a family member with BPD. To me, it seems your sister is very fortunate to have so many people who love her and want to support her. In fact, your parents also sound lucky to have a son who cares about them and wants to help them find information and help for the chaos they are feeling. My concern is for you... .it is important to find a balance between supporting other people and taking care of oneself.

I hear a lot from you about what your parents are feeling and what they are going through, and I am wondering about what you feel and what your needs are. Many times there is at least one family member who shoves all his needs and feelings aside to put everyone else's first, and this often burns him out or builds resentment. Oftentimes we may not even know what boundaries are, let alone where we need our own to be. Have you thought about your boundaries and what you need for yourself in this situation?  Your mother does yoga... .what about you--how do you stay centered?

It is good that you are learning skills and taking opportunities to practice them. It is also good that your parents are interested in learning as well. This will help all of you. Not being from India, and also not being a professional in the mental health field, I cannot say what therapy would be available for your parents. I do know that here in the U.S. it is not unusual for family members of someone with BPD to seek support from their own psychotherapist. This would be different than a psychiatrist (who is a medical doctor and prescribes medication), though either could be useful depending on the person's needs. A therapist might use any number of therapies for a family member; one common one is Cognitive Behaivioral Therapy, but there are other options. The important thing is to feel supported and to learn new skills for coping with the situation.

Your mentioning that acceptance is important to you reminds me of a workshop that helped me a lot when I first came here. TOOLS:Radical Acceptance for Family Members I wonder if it would be helpful to you, too.

I am interested in hearing more from you. Please do let us know if you have any more questions!

PF

[Finding Courage]

This is what I like about these boards.  It is like I could have written these things myself.  My mom always needs things right now  It wouldn't be unheard of to get many frantic emails and voice messages when she gets in one of her states.  I am in my 30's and about a year ago she called and emailed numerous times one evening because she "hadn't heard from me all day."  We don't talk that often anyway!  She just freaked out to get my attention. 

And it is always about her needs, never mine. 

[sahanasandeep]

Thanks a Lot. Its particularly very nice of you to have a concern for me and my family! It made me feel so much better!

To me, it seems your sister is very fortunate to have so many people who love her and want to support her.

Yes we do to help her. But then it is eating up a lot of our time and energy. Taking her to a therapy or pushing to go and see a Psychiatrist is a daunting task. Over the last few years its turned out that we are helping her to ONLY help ourselves! helping her because we want to lessen our burden and lead a slightly more peaceful life. Trying to anicipate problems and somehow try and mitigate the consequences. My parents are at the forefront of the drama which plays out every single day.

In fact, your parents also sound lucky to have a son who cares about them and wants to help them find information and help for the chaos they are feeling. My concern is for you... .it is important to find a balance between supporting other people and taking care of oneself.

I hear a lot from you about what your parents are feeling and what they are going through, and I am wondering about what you feel and what your needs are. Many times there is at least one family member who shoves all his needs and feelings aside to put everyone else's first, and this often burns him out or builds resentment. Oftentimes we may not even know what boundaries are, let alone where we need our own to be. Have you thought about your boundaries and what you need for yourself in this situation?  Your mother does yoga... .what about you--how do you stay centered?

Thanks again. I think I am slowly getting to this balance. I am able prioritize my family's needs. I still do not have a kid and when that happens more balancing would be needed. What has helped me now is the fact that I do not stay with my sister and parents and so I dont face the music directly. I spend about 30 mins on phone everyday to get to know whats happenning . I try to talk to my sister and practise 'Validation' skills ... .I have just started with these things and like most of you have said here its going to be a uhill task to practise validation. We are so used to invalidating! this is what we have done over the past 15 years! Another aspect is that she dosent pour all her anger over me. She usually maintains a good decorum when she speaks to me. She has always been like this where she does not want to reveal her negative side to me. But its a different story when it comes to my parents. They face all her abuses and harassments.

Here is the latest challenge on my desk. She has got a new job. Its been less than 2 weeks since she is started on this job. She wants to quit already! Her reasons 1) Everyone else in this workplace is more qualified than her and she feels extremely inferior 2) Her learning/grasping abilities have drastically reduced and she is unable to pick up new skills. Expectation in this new workplace would be quite high so she would fail miserably and she dosent want to see that day.

Now this is one place I am trying to apply validation. Please help me here. Should I try SET?

It is good that you are learning skills and taking opportunities to practice them. It is also good that your parents are interested in learning as well. This will help all of you. Not being from India, and also not being a professional in the mental health field, I cannot say what therapy would be available for your parents. I do know that here in the U.S. it is not unusual for family members of someone with BPD to seek support from their own psychotherapist. This would be different than a psychiatrist (who is a medical doctor and prescribes medication), though either could be useful depending on the person's needs. A therapist might use any number of therapies for a family member; one common one is Cognitive Behaivioral Therapy, but there are other options. The important thing is to feel supported and to learn new skills for coping with the situation.

I shall surely Put in some efforts to find out of any health centers offers DBT here. But even if I am able to find one , coaxing her to go to the therapy would require tons of effort and follow up. Neither do I have time for that nor am I in the right place to do that. It would fall on my parents shoulders and it would be too taxing on them. About 6 months ago she was seeing a psychiatrist who had started her on a therapy. Not sure what the name of the therapy was. She was given some homework ( like jolting down her feelings and emotions) and the psychiatrist was trying to bring about certain behavioural changes. But After about 3-4 consultations she grew averse. She never wrote or did anything that was told to her. The fourth consultation was telephonic. And there was never a fifth one.


Thanks again!

Regards

Sandeep

[sahanasandeep]

And it is always about her needs, never mine. 

Dear 'Finding Courage',

    You've summed it up perfecly!

[Phoenix.Rising]

She has got a new job. Its been less than 2 weeks since she is started on this job. She wants to quit already! Her reasons 1) Everyone else in this workplace is more qualified than her and she feels extremely inferior 2) Her learning/grasping abilities have drastically reduced and she is unable to pick up new skills. Expectation in this new workplace would be quite high so she would fail miserably and she dosent want to see that day.

Now this is one place I am trying to apply validation. Please help me here. Should I try SET?

You: Hey Sis, I think it's wonderful you have a new job.  I applaud your efforts and support you in your new endeavor! [Support]

Her: Thanks, but I feel extremely inferior and I'm afraid I will fail, so I want to just quit!

You: Wow, I see you are hurting.  It must be very difficult to feel inferior and to feel like you will fail. [Empathy]

You: However, I know you are an intelligent woman who is capable of doing this job. [Truth]

[P.F.Change]

Here is the latest challenge on my desk. She has got a new job. Its been less than 2 weeks since she is started on this job. She wants to quit already! Her reasons 1) Everyone else in this workplace is more qualified than her and she feels extremely inferior 2) Her learning/grasping abilities have drastically reduced and she is unable to pick up new skills. Expectation in this new workplace would be quite high so she would fail miserably and she dosent want to see that day.

Now this is one place I am trying to apply validation. Please help me here. Should I try SET?

That sounds like a great idea. Would you like to practice here?

I shall surely Put in some efforts to find out of any health centers offers DBT here. But even if I am able to find one , coaxing her to go to the therapy would require tons of effort and follow up. Neither do I have time for that nor am I in the right place to do that. It would fall on my parents shoulders and it would be too taxing on them.

DBT can be very effective when the person feels it is beneficial enough to risk committing to several years of treatment. If your sister does not feel she needs therapy, she would not be likely to stick with it. Ultimately, no one can force her to go. You can only control whether you seek the support you need for yourself.

[sahanasandeep]

Hello,

Thanks for your replies and support again.

I did try SET in this case. We did have a conversation which went from support to empathy to truth. In this case truth being motivating her to stick to her job. The next I again spoke to her to ask about how she was feeling. She again told me she still is'nt sure if she should continue with the job. I religiously followed SET again. The confusion and dilemma still persists in her head. I guess if not anything , SET is a good tool to atleast confront her problems.

And yes the larger problem is she dosent think she needs a therapy. Thats a problem which we have to live with for a while.

Offlate her HR took her into a room and asked her to be more interactive with people in office and socialize more. And that upset her. She believes that she greets people everyday and does her bit to socialize and yet people have this perception about her. More challenge for us on the plate and time to put SET on anvil again! need to run

I wish the entire BPD family a great and a prosperous new year  !   9

Thanks a lot ... .I shall keep posting and hope 2014 is a better number... .the notorious 13 is behind us... thank goodness!

SS

[P.F.Change]

I did try SET in this case. We did have a conversation which went from support to empathy to truth. In this case truth being motivating her to stick to her job. The next I again spoke to her to ask about how she was feeling. She again told me she still is'nt sure if she should continue with the job. I religiously followed SET again. The confusion and dilemma still persists in her head. I guess if not anything , SET is a good tool to atleast confront her problems.

Good job practicing with the tools. It sounds like it is helping you somewhat.

One thing to keep in mind is that no tool in and of itself has the power to alter someone else's mind or behavior. Tools like SET are there to help us communicate our point of view without invalidating what the other person is experiencing. Sometimes, this does help the other person to hear what we are saying because it calms the conversation down a bit. It does not guarantee they will agree, though. How will you use SET to talk to your sister about the situation with HR?

Happy new year to you as well!   

PF

[Phoenix.Rising]

I would like to add that for a pwBPD, often times their emotions=truth or their reality to them (where as to us it may seem like complete nonsense at the time).  I had a  moment when I realized this.  That is why it is important to validate their emotions without being codependent or validating a situation that is not healthy or in their best interest.  This is what makes the Truth statement important. 

Sometimes it is best to just walk away w/o trying to validate if the pwBPD is trying to project harmful feeling onto us.  This provides them with a better opportunity to learn to self-soothe, which they do not know how to do under normal circumstances.

[sahanasandeep]

Sometimes it is best to just walk away w/o trying to validate if the pwBPD is trying to project harmful feeling onto us.  This provides them with a better opportunity to learn to self-soothe, which they do not know how to do under normal circumstances.

Thats a great tip. Thanks. Often times my parents , espicially my mom feels thrteaned to talk to her fearing a unmindful backlash.

[sahanasandeep]

Thanks to all the kind replys.

Writing after a few days to tell you guys that my sister did end up quitting the job. Myself and my parents tried motivating her to whatever extent possible. That just pushed her to go to work for another week or so and then one of these fine days she walked to her manager's desk and said she is finding it hard and cant take it anymore.

My parents had to face a couple of tough days after this. They had to as usual take the blame of HER jobloss and HER incapacity to tread on with the job.

I must say like you guys have pointed out SET tool has definitely helped us to deal with the situation. A couple of years ago I would have been extremely annoyed at her stupidity and would have had taken up a fight with her. But not now... . I reacted calmly. Thats a great deal of 'radical acceptance' for me. I have come to accept that there may be many more resignations to come. My parents too did not react much. They supported her to say that she should lookout for another job... which she is capable of handling.

I asked my sister whats the one thing that would make you extremely happy. She said "a job !". Now how irritating is that! She has just thrown away a job which had!  Again I've come to accepting these things in a much better way.

For now i've persuaded her to go to a 10-day Vipassana meditation camp( Where they follow Buddhist ways of focussing techniques) . That gives 10 of breathing time to my parents.

Will keep writing more as things unfold.

Thanks

SS

[P.F.Change]

I am glad to hear you are having success with SET and radical acceptance.  I have a friend who goes on Vipassana retreats and finds them very restorative. I hope it will be a positive thing for your sister.

What about you, sahanasandeep? How are you looking after yourself right now? Do you still feel you have balance between your needs and life and what is going on with your sister?

PF