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[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Posted in Divorce board as well, didnt know which was most appropriate.

I have finally filed, coming up on our 20th anniversary in June. 20 years, 3 daughters (19,17,11), 3 reconciliations later I am pulling the plug on this nightmare.

Me: 45, Former Marine, Engineer, loving and hardworking Dad, dangerously "people-pleasing" and generally shriveled down to the core, smoking two packs a day

Her: dBPDw, high school dropout, emancipated from her parents at 17, on our first date gave me a very personal poem she had written years earlier, gave me all of her body on the first date too, told me on this date "her greatest fear is to be like her mother."

Holy smokes, a recipe for disaster that I ate up like a medium rare porterhouse with a stick of butter melting on top. Her first exit was 1998, I get home from work and enter an empty home, she has left to go back home to Mississippi (we lived in Pittsburgh). I call her friend to find out whats going on and am informed that she was having an affair with a bartender at the place she was working, I also discover a letter written by him to her, hes crushed because shes leaving him! I call her and confront her with the evidence and she flatly states "I dont feel like I have done anything wrong." W.T.F, a buddy of mine then later confesses that last year while she was visiting home and they were "partying", she stayed at his house and he walked in on her with another man on his couch, she was pregnant at the time.

Ok, pretty clear shes nuts, I am devastated. I file a custody order to have my children returned, and she drives them back to PA, I move into my sisters house, court orders a 50/50 split on custody but neither person files for D. She eventually charms, I cave and we reconcile, buy a new house and start over, having another child in the process. She convinces me that in order to be happy we need to be in MS, I put my very vertical career on a horizontal trajectory and we move to Biloxi, MS. Katrina soon strikes, then far worse, she is an alcoholic but she starts to abuse prescription pills, mainly xanax. She stops coming home at night, is always completely wasted and has now on her 4th job. I find out about another affair and press for MC. Counselor works with us for about 6 months, jointly and individually. He throws out terms like BPD, HPD and she bails. While away on business she packs up the girls again and moves into an apartment and tells me she no longer loves me. I file for custody again, 50/50 but this time she is having men on the reg at her place, one actually touches my daughter and I file for full custody. During that time waiting for trial, her addictions are even more out of control and her family gets her into a rehab. I finally have my kids, and myself safe and as soon as I m ready to file, and move back to PA I get the guilt charm, the suicide talk etc from rehab.

I dont know what to tell you, I caved again, and after stating all the things required to make another go at it, she agrees and we reconcile after she gets out. We attend regular MC again, she admits to multiple affairs, 3 abortions during the marriage, being raped as a young child, etc. After a rocky start, things actually start to normalize again, not so much love bombing but affirmation that she always loved me, couldnt live without me etc. We have 8 or so years of what seems to be normality, then just recently she gets fired from her newest job as a marina manager for spending too much time at the bar on premises. Her drinking is out of control once again, she begins to see her own counselor who has triangulated with her to convince her of her latest epiphany, "I want to be independent and find myself". My two oldest daughters will be testifying against her i court so that I can get full custody of my 12 year old. There is also another affair, what appears to be an emotional one, but she calls it a "work affair".

She now has completely disassociated and blames me for the entire mess, that I am abusive, controlling, vindictive and poison the kids against her. I am still struggling with the fog again, but at least I have a bit of a head start and have already informed my lawyer of the inevitable DV claims, etc. She has since moved into a leased apartment, my daughters have visited her and come back explaining that all she does is cries, even asking them if they see me cry at all.  I really just dont think I would go through with it, the divorce the NC, the whole nine and I think it has her severely triggered.  Temp court hearing is next Tuesday and all 3 kids have signed notarized election forms stating they want to live in the home with me.  Its just so weird for my kids to visit her, feel sorry for her and at the same time will be testifying on my behalf, I ache for what they are going through. 

Its really hard to place all the insanity of the last 20 years into a post, and there are thousands of little crazy things left out, and several more giant crazy things. Just needed to get some of it out to people who understand, because its not a story I am very proud of sharing.

[Makersmarksman]

Posted in Divorce board as well, didnt know which was most appropriate.

I have finally filed, coming up on our 20th anniversary in June. 20 years, 3 daughters (19,17,11), 3 reconciliations later I am pulling the plug on this nightmare.

Me: 45, Former Marine, Engineer, loving and hardworking Dad, dangerously "people-pleasing" and generally shriveled down to the core, smoking two packs a day

Her: dBPDw, high school dropout, emancipated from her parents at 17, on our first date gave me a very personal poem she had written years earlier, gave me all of her body on the first date too, told me on this date "her greatest fear is to be like her mother."

Holy smokes, a recipe for disaster that I ate up like a medium rare porterhouse with a stick of butter melting on top. Her first exit was 1998, I get home from work and enter an empty home, she has left to go back home to Mississippi (we lived in Pittsburgh). I call her friend to find out whats going on and am informed that she was having an affair with a bartender at the place she was working, I also discover a letter written by him to her, hes crushed because shes leaving him! I call her and confront her with the evidence and she flatly states "I dont feel like I have done anything wrong." W.T.F, a buddy of mine then later confesses that last year while she was visiting home and they were "partying", she stayed at his house and he walked in on her with another man on his couch, she was pregnant at the time.

Ok, pretty clear shes nuts, I am devastated. I file a custody order to have my children returned, and she drives them back to PA, I move into my sisters house, court orders a 50/50 split on custody but neither person files for D. She eventually charms, I cave and we reconcile, buy a new house and start over, having another child in the process. She convinces me that in order to be happy we need to be in MS, I put my very vertical career on a horizontal trajectory and we move to Biloxi, MS. Katrina soon strikes, then far worse, she is an alcoholic but she starts to abuse prescription pills, mainly xanax. She stops coming home at night, is always completely wasted and has now on her 4th job. I find out about another affair and press for MC. Counselor works with us for about 6 months, jointly and individually. He throws out terms like BPD, HPD and she bails. While away on business she packs up the girls again and moves into an apartment and tells me she no longer loves me. I file for custody again, 50/50 but this time she is having men on the reg at her place, one actually touches my daughter and I file for full custody. During that time waiting for trial, her addictions are even more out of control and her family gets her into a rehab. I finally have my kids, and myself safe and as soon as I m ready to file, and move back to PA I get the guilt charm, the suicide talk etc from rehab.

I dont know what to tell you, I caved again, and after stating all the things required to make another go at it, she agrees and we reconcile after she gets out. We attend regular MC again, she admits to multiple affairs, 3 abortions during the marriage, being raped as a young child, etc. After a rocky start, things actually start to normalize again, not so much love bombing but affirmation that she always loved me, couldnt live without me etc. We have 8 or so years of what seems to be normality, then just recently she gets fired from her newest job as a marina manager for spending too much time at the bar on premises. Her drinking is out of control once again, she begins to see her own counselor who has triangulated with her to convince her of her latest epiphany, "I want to be independent and find myself". My two oldest daughters will be testifying against her i court so that I can get full custody of my 12 year old. There is also another affair, what appears to be an emotional one, but she calls it a "work affair".

She now has completely disassociated and blames me for the entire mess, that I am abusive, controlling, vindictive and poison the kids against her. I am still struggling with the fog again, but at least I have a bit of a head start and have already informed my lawyer of the inevitable DV claims, etc. She has since moved into a leased apartment, my daughters have visited her and come back explaining that all she does is cries, even asking them if they see me cry at all.  I really just dont think I would go through with it, the divorce the NC, the whole nine and I think it has her severely triggered.  Temp court hearing is next Tuesday and all 3 kids have signed notarized election forms stating they want to live in the home with me.  Its just so weird for my kids to visit her, feel sorry for her and at the same time will be testifying on my behalf, I ache for what they are going through. 

Its really hard to place all the insanity of the last 20 years into a post, and there are thousands of little crazy things left out, and several more giant crazy things. Just needed to get some of it out to people who understand, because its not a story I am very proud of sharing.

[steelwork]

MMM, thank you for sharing your truly heartbreaking story. You have absolutely nothing to be not-proud of. Sounds like you gave this marriage everything you could and then some. BPD is weird, in that the pw can be walking around, working, seeming "troubled" in an ordinary, c&w song way, and like they just need to get sober, and meanwhile be gravely mentally ill. Imagine if she had paranoid schizophrenia. In a way, what you were up against might be worse, because it plays out behind a curtain of defenses.

Anyhow, welcome to this board. Where do you think you are with detachment?

[Makersmarksman]

MMM, thank you for sharing your truly heartbreaking story. You have absolutely nothing to be not-proud of. Sounds like you gave this marriage everything you could and then some. BPD is weird, in that the pw can be walking around, working, seeming "troubled" in an ordinary, c&w song way, and like they just need to get sober, and meanwhile be gravely mentally ill. Imagine if she had paranoid schizophrenia. In a way, what you were up against might be worse, because it plays out behind a curtain of defenses.

Anyhow, welcome to this board. Where do you think you are with detachment?

I have been NC since divorce papers were served on April 1st this year.  She was living in the home at the time but had already leased an apartment and has since moved into that about 1.5 weeks ago.  I gave her the "please only contact with matters pertaining to the children" text but havent spoken a word to her since.  Logically I am completely detached, but emotionally there are still feelings there I am working through, but its not debilitating.  I am seeing everything as a milestone, serving her, filling out the discovery, her moving out, finding out about the eventual boyfriend, court... .all of it, each milestone brings me closer to finding myself again. I am 45, didnt really see myself raising my youngest daughter on my own, but did this before with my two older daughters and they appreciate what I did for them back then greatly, just going to power through this again and hope to find some time to meet someone healthy one day, honestly thats what I worry about the most.

[JQ]

Hi Marine,

Welcome to the group, you've found a good place to let us know how you're doing and as someone said, YOU don't have anything to "not so proud of". BPD is a VERY Serious Cluster B Mental Illness and we, "Most if not all of us on the boards" are codependent or NONs. Your experience as a Marine is certainly needed to have dealt with your BPD s/o for all those years. You are to be commended for your steadfast resolve to the "mission" of your marriage. I myself am retired military and can relate to where you're coming from.

Would it surprise you to learn that a lot of NON's have professions like Police, Doctors, nurses, therapist, Military, and the list goes on. WE are Knights in shining amor riding in to save the day. We are the white hat shiny badge Sheriff protecting those who can't protect themselves. We are the glass is 1/2 full, positive energized, nothing can't be fixed or accomplished personalities.  AS dysfunctional, chaotic, drama filled life can be with someone who is BPD, a NON seems to be the "perfect match" for a BPD. The book "The Human Magnet Syndrome" explains this pretty well. You should be able to find it in your local library or online if not.  www.humanmagnetsyndrome.com

We're anonymous here so feel free to tell us what you want when you want. You'll find no one here to judge you because as it's already been said, we've been there, been bloodied and have the chest full of medals to prove it.    One thing brother, you have to keep a sense of humor when trying to manage all of what you're going through. A sense of humor is going to help you get through the dark times.

You will stumble on your journey like all of us have, but we'll hold out a hand, we'll pull you up and then it's up to you to choose what path you walk down on your continuing journey.  I would read as much as you can on this site at the top and to the right side of the page.  I would read books like, "Stop Walking on EggShells", "I hate you, Don't leave me" just to mention a couple of more to help you understand the mental illness a little better. And I would encourage you to seek out a therapist / counselor to help you sort out your thoughts, emotions and help you navigate your way though this. I have personally found it is a sign of great strength to reach out in this manner as it helped me with not only dealing with my exBPDgf, but also help deal with a PTSD issue and I found out my history as to why & how I became a NON aka codependent. Once I knew that, damn the rest of my journey became a WHOLE LOT EASIER!  As a Vet you have the VA or the Vet Center to assist you in this manner as far as counseling and they have family counseling available too to assist you family members as needed or can guide you in the right direction brother.  I would reach out to the local Vet Center first since anonymous counseling is their main mission.

I know it's tough going through what you have and did, but you made it here and that's a great start.  I know without a doubt that you could fill several books with your stories of your life with your BPD. Again, tell us what you're comfortable with.  Knowing is 1/2 the battle. AS you said, the emotional aspect of this is the toughest thing to deal with and your children will have to work through their emotions, feelings too in addition to the divorce, counseling for them would probably be a good thing as well.

As an engineer, you're a pretty logical guy, I believe this trait is pretty strong in a lot of NON's too ... .would you agree group?   My exBPDgf is Ivy league educated, 2 Masters and works for a Fortune 200 company, " high functioning" BPD as it's come to be describe to me. It's just that people with BPD are physically broken with their mental illness, they can't manage their emotional behavior. They are the forever 3 yr old toddler when it comes to impulse control, r/s behavior, etc.  Different studies including one from Harvard would suggest that the neuropathways within the brain are short circuited or don't connect to the hub. In the frontal cortex of the brain in addition to other portions of the brain that control behavior is actually smaller then a "normal" brain.  In addition it is suggested that environment also plays a part in all of it along with genetics being passed down from generation to generation.  We all have so much to learn ... .

A buddy of mine sent this video to me to help with a lack of motivational moments and I forward it to you.  I've watched it several times in the morning when I was having a bad day or day's and it helped me. I hope that it gives you that motivation when you need it as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZQeMv5PXhg

I know there is a lot to learn, to take in, to try and understand, to make sense of it all. But you can do it as we have done it.  You got this brother ... .& we got your six.

Semper Fi

J

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Makersmarksman, You have come to a great place.  We get what you have been through and you are not alone, believe me.  Feel free to share as much as you like here.  Chances are many of us have been through it before you.  Do you have any specific questions?  Your story sounds like so many others who have found their way here.  Hang in there!

LuckyJim

P.S.  Do you enjoy Maker's Mark?  I do . . .

[vortex of confusion]

Wanted to chime in and say hi! I am ending an almost 18 year marriage and have 4 kids. I have a lot of stuff that I have done that I am not proud of at all. I did what I did because I was hanging on to some kind of pipe dream that I would be able to find some kind of magic answer and figure out how to be a better wife, etc. I haven't filed for divorce yet and a lot of stuff is still up in the air. Getting him out of the house was a huge step for me. I didn't think I would ever find the nerve to do that.

It sounds like you are doing a great job with yourself and the kids! I want to echo what others have said and tell you that you have a lot to be proud of in this ordeal. 

[Makersmarksman]

Hi Marine,

Welcome to the group, you've found a good place to let us know how you're doing and as someone said, YOU don't have anything to "not so proud of". BPD is a VERY Serious Cluster B Mental Illness and we, "Most if not all of us on the boards" are codependent or NONs. Your experience as a Marine is certainly needed to have dealt with your BPD s/o for all those years. You are to be commended for your steadfast resolve to the "mission" of your marriage. I myself am retired military and can relate to where you're coming from.

Would it surprise you to learn that a lot of NON's have professions like Police, Doctors, nurses, therapist, Military, and the list goes on. WE are Knights in shining amor riding in to save the day. We are the white hat shiny badge Sheriff protecting those who can't protect themselves. We are the glass is 1/2 full, positive energized, nothing can't be fixed or accomplished personalities.  AS dysfunctional, chaotic, drama filled life can be with someone who is BPD, a NON seems to be the "perfect match" for a BPD. The book "The Human Magnet Syndrome" explains this pretty well. You should be able to find it in your local library or online if not.  www.humanmagnetsyndrome.com

We're anonymous here so feel free to tell us what you want when you want. You'll find no one here to judge you because as it's already been said, we've been there, been bloodied and have the chest full of medals to prove it.    One thing brother, you have to keep a sense of humor when trying to manage all of what you're going through. A sense of humor is going to help you get through the dark times.

You will stumble on your journey like all of us have, but we'll hold out a hand, we'll pull you up and then it's up to you to choose what path you walk down on your continuing journey.  I would read as much as you can on this site at the top and to the right side of the page.  I would read books like, "Stop Walking on EggShells", "I hate you, Don't leave me" just to mention a couple of more to help you understand the mental illness a little better. And I would encourage you to seek out a therapist / counselor to help you sort out your thoughts, emotions and help you navigate your way though this. I have personally found it is a sign of great strength to reach out in this manner as it helped me with not only dealing with my exBPDgf, but also help deal with a PTSD issue and I found out my history as to why & how I became a NON aka codependent. Once I knew that, damn the rest of my journey became a WHOLE LOT EASIER~!  As a Vet you have the VA or the Vet Center to assist you in this manner as far as counseling and they have family counseling available too to assist you family members as needed or can guide you in the right direction brother.  I would reach out to the local Vet Center first since anonymous counseling is their main mission.

I know it's tough going through what you have and did, but you made it here and that's a great start.  I know without a doubt that you could fill several books with your stories of your life with your BPD. Again, tell us what you're comfortable with.  Knowing is 1/2 the battle. AS you said, the emotional aspect of this is the toughest thing to deal with and your children will have to work through their emotions, feelings too in addition to the divorce, counseling for them would probably be a good thing as well.

As an engineer, you're a pretty logical guy, I believe this trait is pretty strong in a lot of NON's too ... .would you agree group?   My exBPDgf is Ivy league educated, 2 Masters and works for a Fortune 200 company, " high functioning" BPD as it's come to be describe to me. It's just that people with BPD are physically broken with their mental illness, they can't manage their emotional behavior. They are the forever 3 yr old toddler when it comes to impulse control, r/s behavior, etc.  Different studies including one from Harvard would suggest that the neuropathways within the brain are short circuited or don't connect to the hub. In the frontal cortex of the brain in addition to other portions of the brain that control behavior is actually smaller then a "normal" brain.  In addition it is suggested that environment also plays a part in all of it along with genetics being passed down from generation to generation.  We all have so much to learn ... .

A buddy of mine sent this video to me to help with a lack of motivational moments and I forward it to you.  I've watched it several times in the morning when I was having a bad day or day's and it helped me. I hope that it gives you that motivation when you need it as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZQeMv5PXhg

I know there is a lot to learn, to take in, to try and understand, to make sense of it all. But you can do it as we have done it.  You got this brother ... .& we got your six.

Semper Fi

J

J

Thanks so much for the motivating post and I promise you I have been learning every step of the way, every day, over the past 20 years. I understand how she splits me, projects, blames and comes back again and again for the stability I offer, or maybe just to twist the knife a bit more.  I knew all of this and still took her back many times, I think if I had sons it might be different but with three daughters I always felt I had to hold this all together at any cost.  But you know what, in the end my my two oldest dont always see the strong man, they see a man putting up with things people just should not have to, and I cannot let them think that ANYONE can ever abuse them in this way and they should just take it.  My wife knows this too, she knows I am deeper inside her head than she is and I watched this last bomb coming from a mile away.  I showed them a lack of self respect, it make me sick.  But, whats one is done, they are all going forward with me like we have done so many times before and I will see them through this like I have done so many times before.  I have read Stop Walking on Eggshells a while back and the video was motivating.  I got work to do, just trying to keep it all in front of me, head and eyes to the front at all times.  Thanks again, Semper Fi.

[Makersmarksman]

Hey Makersmarksman, You have come to a great place.  We get what you have been through and you are not alone, believe me.  Feel free to share as much as you like here.  Chances are many of us have been through it before you.  Do you have any specific questions?  Your story sounds like so many others who have found their way here.  Hang in there!

LuckyJim

P.S.  Do you enjoy Maker's Mark?  I do . . .

Hi LuckyJim, I do enjoy Marker's Mark and and I am a big fan of most other rye whiskeys.  Maybe I will actually get to enjoy it a bit more now that my stbEX isnt always draining the bottle! 

[Makersmarksman]

Wanted to chime in and say hi! I am ending an almost 18 year marriage and have 4 kids. I have a lot of stuff that I have done that I am not proud of at all. I did what I did because I was hanging on to some kind of pipe dream that I would be able to find some kind of magic answer and figure out how to be a better wife, etc. I haven't filed for divorce yet and a lot of stuff is still up in the air. Getting him out of the house was a huge step for me. I didn't think I would ever find the nerve to do that.

It sounds like you are doing a great job with yourself and the kids! I want to echo what others have said and tell you that you have a lot to be proud of in this ordeal.  

Hi Vortex,

I come from a pretty traditional and very loving family, I had a decent American upbringing.  I always believed parenting was 50% the parenting stuff (changing diapers, cleaning up puke, cooking dinner and disciplining) and 50% living my life the way my kids could positively reflect from.  I am not perfect, but I know they look up to me, I want to be their role model, not some actor or athlete... their DAD.  And for the most part I have, they remind me of this every day.  But, while I have taught them through many actions, that you never give up on family, or those you love but I fear I have crossed a line to show them sometimes you have to completely sacrifice yourself and your self respect for another.  That was not my intention, that was my own selfish desire to keep this family together even when it really shouldnt have been.  That was my own selfish desire to remain with a sick woman. It was my oldest daughters that explained this to me, that this was no longer acceptable. I can tell you, I have some incredible girls, they are as much an inspiration to me as I have been to them.

[JQ]

Hi Makers,

From the sounds of your posts you have some incredible daughters and you the teacher have become the student with them teaching you some very important life lessons.  I don't know if you were really selfish, but you fought for the girls to provide what you believed to be a "family environment" that included both parents.  Sometimes that isn't a realistic expectation and we have to learn that. As you said, you taught them never to give up, to fight the good fight. But you also taught them that sometimes you might lose the battle, but in the end you will win the war and that's what you have done.

Life really does get better and soon you'll be showing your daughters a side they probably haven't' seen or haven't seen in a long time and that is that dad can be happy, laugh, smile and is back to really enjoying life again. It sounds as if you're almost completed with YOUR Mt. Crucible and you should be proud of your accomplishments.

You can move forward teaching your daughters a very important life lesson.  That everyone ... .EVERYONE will from time to time will find a moment in their life that no matter how hard they work, fight, want to succeed, they will be at the bottom of the hill, waste deep in mud. NO ONE can do everything by themselves and as the story goes, "the most confident & motivated people will need a helping hand at some point in their life".   This was that moment for you and you reached your hand out and the group has helped you back up, dusted you off and now YOU have started down your path once again!  What an amazing thing to teach your daughters!   

J

[steelwork]

Wow. I don't have kids, nor was I ever in the military... .but I am finding this conversation inspiring and uplifting. Thank you, MMM. I believe one of the reasons I never had kids is that I wasn't confident in the role models I had. I think I was right not to. I could not have done as well by them as you have.

[Makersmarksman]

Wow. I don't have kids, nor was I ever in the military... .but I am finding this conversation inspiring and uplifting. Thank you, MMM. I believe one of the reasons I never had kids is that I wasn't confident in the role models I had. I think I was right not to. I could not have done as well by them as you have.

J,  thanks again for the inspiration.  I am treating this just like like stepping on those yellow footprints again. I know it's not going to be easy, but I also know it's not going to last forever.

Steelwork,  I have always held my kids pretty tight, this marriage has forced me to hold them even tighter at times.  They will come out of the other side intact,  just like I will.  They have a lot of friends who have been through divorce as well,  normal divorces as they call them,  they know there is nothing normal about this but I won't let them down, and they know that.

[Lucky Jim]

Like what you're sayin', MMM.  Yes, you will come out the other side, which leads to greater happiness, in my experience.  In the meantime, it's a tough slog, though you seem prepared for it.

LuckyJim

[Answers]

Thank you for sharing your story! I have much respect for the strength and dignity you have shown in dealing with it all and it actually inspires me to be stronger in my own approach.

[Makersmarksman]

Thank you for sharing your story! I have much respect for the strength and dignity you have shown in dealing with it all and it actually inspires me to be stronger in my own approach.

I appreciate your comment,  however I don't feel strength and dignity,  but perhaps only people here can truly understand how difficult the detachment from a Bpd is,  it's brutal.  My OWN strength and dignity is something I feel as though I am restoring,  through strict NC through this divorce.  It's all a little easier each day I suppose

[steelwork]

Thank you for sharing your story! I have much respect for the strength and dignity you have shown in dealing with it all and it actually inspires me to be stronger in my own approach.

I appreciate your comment,  however I don't feel strength and dignity,  but perhaps only people here can truly understand how difficult the detachment from a Bpd is,  it's brutal.  My OWN strength and dignity is something I feel as though I am restoring,  through strict NC through this divorce.  It's all a little easier each day I suppose

Yeah, MMM, I was looking back at this thread and thinking how that might be a lonely feeling for you, to see all of us responding to your backbone and dignity and saying how we look up to you. I maybe wildly off-base, but maybe you are a person who projects more strength than he feels sometimes, and that could be an isolating feeling, to have people tell you, "Oh, look how great you're doing."

Anyhow, like JQ said, if you stumble here, you will fall into safe arms.

[vortex of confusion]

I appreciate your comment,  however I don't feel strength and dignity,  but perhaps only people here can truly understand how difficult the detachment from a Bpd is,  it's brutal.  My OWN strength and dignity is something I feel as though I am restoring,  through strict NC through this divorce.  It's all a little easier each day I suppose

Oh yes, it is a very brutal process. I have been told how great I am doing by some of my friends. I have to try not to dismiss myself and my progress. There are days when I feel like I should be so over all of this by now. It isn't like I woke up one day and decided that I just didn't want to be married to him any more. My stbx has put me through hell in various ways. My self esteem is in the pits some days and I can't wait until the day when I feel more like my old self. I don't even know what it feels like to NOT be dismissed and feel strong and capable any more. It is a process for sure. I am making progress yet it feels like it is at a snail's pace. Hang in there!

[JQ]

MMM, Vortex,

It is a brutal process to learn why things happen the way they did. Learn why YOU the NON were attracted to a BPD in the first place.  But know that you, me nor very educated people who have studied mental illness for a lifetime can affect the outcome of BPD. I hope you, that all of us can find some peace knowing that as a m.h. professional told me, they are very seriously broken people and chances are will never find the cure they so desperately need and EVERYONE wants.  BPD is beyond OUR ability to fix or repair.  

All the Kinds men and all the Kinds horses can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again ... .

Never sale yourself short Vortex, or MMM or anyone here. You are and you have survived a r/s that was never going to last with your BPD. AS much as we wish, wanted, prayed for it to, somethings in life are not meant to last and I truly believe that a BPD/NON r/s is one of those things.  I have yet to read a successful outcome in all the post on any of the boards. Yes there is some measurement of a r/s within the two, but from what I've read, it is a lifetime of constant setting and reenforcing boundaries. It is a lifetime of therapy, if they stay on track. It is a lifetime of therapy for the NON to help manage her or his feelings, emotions, and frustration. Some of these r/s have had 25-30 plus years of recycles, rages, validation, projection. I guess it's up to each one of us to decide what "living life to the fullest" means to each of us.

J

[Makersmarksman]

MMM, Vortex,

It is a brutal process to learn why things happen the way they did. Learn why YOU the NON were attracted to a BPD in the first place.  But know that you, me nor very educated people who have studied mental illness for a lifetime can affect the outcome of BPD. I hope you, that all of us can find some peace knowing that as a m.h. professional told me, they are very seriously broken people and chances are will never find the cure they so desperately need and EVERYONE wants.  BPD is beyond OUR ability to fix or repair.  

All the Kinds men and all the Kinds horses can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again ... .

Never sale yourself short Vortex, or MMM or anyone here. You are and you have survived a r/s that was never going to last with your BPD. AS much as we wish, wanted, prayed for it to, somethings in life are not meant to last and I truly believe that a BPD/NON r/s is one of those things.  I have yet to read a successful outcome in all the post on any of the boards. Yes there is some measurement of a r/s within the two, but from what I've read, it is a lifetime of constant setting and reenforcing boundaries. It is a lifetime of therapy, if they stay on track. It is a lifetime of therapy for the NON to help manage her or his feelings, emotions, and frustration. Some of these r/s have had 25-30 plus years of recycles, rages, validation, projection. I guess it's up to each one of us to decide what "living life to the fullest" means to each of us.

J

For me "living life to the fullest"  right now means,  living without the insanity that was a constant in my home.  I certainly have things to do and places to see,  but for right now,  normal feels pretty damn good.

[JQ]

Hi group,

This was posted by a senior member in another thread, but thought I would share it with you. To me it makes CRYSTAL CLEAR SENSE of what BPD is and what BPD is NOT! 

The various therapies for BPD are very good handbooks for recovery, unfortunately pwBPD seem to suffer a kind of dyslexia when it comes to reading them. Hence the increased difficulty in making progress. To some the stress is too great.

It takes strength of willpower and a belief that it is possible, for them to make progress.  The other hurdle is that for most it is not "recovery" as there was no former healthy state , you are asking them to evolve into something they have no experience of. It becomes like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, they have never seen it and hence struggle to believe in it, or that it even has sufficient value for the effort. It makes it difficult for them to leave their 'comfort " zone.

pwBPD often need immediate gratification and tangible goals to aim for. Long term goals are an abstract.

I believe we need to start explaining things in the manner. There is NO recovery because there was NO normal state of mind since birth. BPD has stunted the growth of the brain both physically, emotionally and developmentally. It has rendered the person unable to, or at the very least extremely difficult to manage said behavior when they've never known what normal is. This goes back to my other statements, that they are broken, and all the Kings men and all the kings horses ... .

I just think straight up honest answers without the B.S. of being politically correct would help the NON make better sound judgement decisions based on facts, medical studies, instead of group hugs, and "hopeful" answers to a mental illness that has affected them since they were born. In that way, the NON would not hold out hope for 3 months, 3 yrs or 30 yrs.

Sorry group ... .I'm frustrated with the entire mental illness of BPD and would like so much for her & all of your BPD's to heal, but I know it is never going to happen. Why do we need to prolong the process of our healing from it ... .

J

[Makersmarksman]

Hi group,

This was posted by a senior member in another thread, but thought I would share it with you. To me it makes CRYSTAL CLEAR SENSE of what BPD is and what BPD is NOT! 

The various therapies for BPD are very good handbooks for recovery, unfortunately pwBPD seem to suffer a kind of dyslexia when it comes to reading them. Hence the increased difficulty in making progress. To some the stress is too great.

It takes strength of willpower and a belief that it is possible, for them to make progress.  The other hurdle is that for most it is not "recovery" as there was no former healthy state , you are asking them to evolve into something they have no experience of. It becomes like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, they have never seen it and hence struggle to believe in it, or that it even has sufficient value for the effort. It makes it difficult for them to leave their 'comfort " zone.

pwBPD often need immediate gratification and tangible goals to aim for. Long term goals are an abstract.

I believe we need to start explaining things in the manner. There is NO recovery because there was NO normal state of mind since birth. BPD has stunted the growth of the brain both physically, emotionally and developmentally. It has rendered the person unable to, or at the very least extremely difficult to manage said behavior when they've never known what normal is. This goes back to my other statements, that they are broken, and all the Kings men and all the kings horses ... .

I just think straight up honest answers without the B.S. of being politically correct would help the NON make better sound judgement decisions based on facts, medical studies, instead of group hugs, and "hopeful" answers to a mental illness that has affected them since they were born. In that way, the NON would not hold out hope for 3 months, 3 yrs or 30 yrs.

Sorry group ... .I'm frustrated with the entire mental illness of BPD and would like so much for her & all of your BPD's to heal, but I know it is never going to happen. Why do we need to prolong the process of our healing from it ... .

J

Hi J,

I hear what you are saying,  her last therapist really wanted to start to tackle the core Bpd issue,  but continuously stated that the addiction issues would have to be the first things to handle.  She even sat with her and my children and in front of them said,  "you can choose between drinking or your children it's that simple." And the therapist was right,  as long as she is self medicating there cannot exist any internal reflection,  only a cushion to act out.  I just don't have any hope my wife would ever even quit drinking or using drugs,  rehab hasn't helped,  this divorce hasn't slowed her down.  I just needed to move on,  and need to help my kids move on from this too.

[Makersmarksman]

Temporary hearing tomorrow,  wish me luck!

[JQ]

Hey Marine!

You got this!  Remember stand tall & be proud of where you came from. Don't let her manipulate the situation and follow the lead of the judge.  OOHYAH!

J

[strongerthanU]

"But, while I have taught them through many actions, that you never give up on family, or those you love but I fear I have crossed a line to show them sometimes you have to completely sacrifice yourself and your self respect for another.  That was not my intention, that was my own selfish desire to keep this family together even when it really shouldnt have been.  That was my own selfish desire to remain with a sick woman. It was my oldest daughters that explained this to me, that this was no longer acceptable. I can tell you, I have some incredible girls, they are as much an inspiration to me as I have been to them."

Welcome Makersmark,

I thought much like you did in respect to my example to my children and what I was investing in them. I have four children three being daughters and a son in the middle of the mix. My daughters who are now 27 & 26 were the ones who came to me and suggested that while their father didn't intentionally or knowingly set out to abuse them that watching him verbally, emotionally and financially abuse me for their entire life was enough. They know me to be strong and nurturing. They hold very little respect for their dad. They tolerate and recognize his illness as a barrier to a deeper relationship. The one smart thing I did do throughout my thirty year relationship with their dad was seek counseling, self care and took every opportunity to coach my kids to be respectful in their boundaries and to agree to disagree with their dads irrational behavior. Our son has completely missed out on a father bond and I feel deeply for his loss, he is the most tender, kindhearted young man I know. He is now 22 and chooses little to NC our youngest daughter is 20 and actually had a closer relationship with her father until recently. I haven't filed for D yet but have it all worked up and I and H have divided everything without legal help thank God, he has leased an apartment and is parrially moved in. I too look forward to healing and breathing easier in the next season. I am 49 and like you I believe life will be brighter on the other side of this painful, lonely, sad road that we have walked. Hang in there and don't be so hard on yourself you are obviously a man of strong character and will! Your daughters are so blessed to have you in their lives. I'm so sorry that their mother couldn't be a great mom but it sounds as if you filled the gap in a very respectful manner for them to look out for your future health and happiness. Our kiddos want to see us thrive and believe in us as much as they have watched us believe in them and others!

[Makersmarksman]

Didnt need much of anything at all, no litigation and an agreement was made between attorneys. I won custody of my daughters, agreed to emancipate my two oldest so that my stbBPDexw has to pay child support only for my 12 yr old daughter. Her lawyer explained to me, "your wife is very sick." No alimony and I can move out of state as soon as I sell my house.  I saw my stbBPDexw in the hallway a few times, she was distraught.  I am not proud of what happened today but I cant tell you what a 20 year odyssey it has been after 3 times on court prior to be here today with this outcome. I am relieved, and numb.

[JQ]

MMM,

I want to send you my heart felt sympathy to you & ALL your family for what you had to endure all these years. I know what you, your children & your stbBPDexw have gone through hasn't been easy. I know that you have fought a very difficult internal struggle to get to this point and have mixed feelings at best.  I can not imagine what you must be feeling ... .but know I, we have your back brother. It took an amazing amount of strength to see a woman you loved with BPD go through what she has for 20 yrs only to realize that there wasn't anything that you could have done.

Perhaps you can feel solace in knowing that her own attorney told you, "your wife is very sick".  I know it might not seem like much but it is something.  Maybe now you can continue you own healing and that of your 12 yr old knowing the path you're on is a better one. Continue the healing for you & your children, and get to a healthy place for all of you. And I hope that your BPD s/o can find the help she needs to live a better, healthier life.

... .I truly hope that sometime very soon in the near future, that science can develop not a drug, or a better "talk therapy" but real & actual gene therapy for this and other mental illnesses that wage such havoc & chaos in so many lives ... .

Be well MMM ... . 

J

[Makersmarksman]

MMM,

I want to send you my heart felt sympathy to you & ALL your family for what you had to endure all these years. I know what you, your children & your stbBPDexw have gone through hasn't been easy. I know that you have fought a very difficult internal struggle to get to this point and have mixed feelings at best.  I can not imagine what you must be feeling ... .but know I, we have your back brother. It took an amazing amount of strength to see a woman you loved with BPD go through what she has for 20 yrs only to realize that there wasn't anything that you could have done.

Perhaps you can feel solace in knowing that her own attorney told you, "your wife is very sick".  I know it might not seem like much but it is something.  Maybe now you can continue you own healing and that of your 12 yr old knowing the path you're on is a better one. Continue the healing for you & your children, and get to a healthy place for all of you. And I hope that your BPD s/o can find the help she needs to live a better, healthier life.

... .I truly hope that sometime very soon in the near future, that science can develop not a drug, or a better "talk therapy" but real & actual gene therapy for this and other mental illnesses that wage such havoc & chaos in so many lives ... .

Be well MMM ... . 

J

Ya man,  this is just another milestone to healing for all of my family.  I really can't call the feeling I have happiness,  it's more of numb relief,  I am just tired and can at least relax my brain a bit before the next steps

[Lucky Jim]

Hey MMM, well done.  It takes courage to make a change, and you did it, so give yourself credit.  Many here have a fear of the unknown, i.e., life without their BPD SO, which is understandable.  Yet in my view the unknown is where happiness lies.  All the best, my friend.

LuckyJim

[Makersmarksman]

She fired her attorney today, who was drafting the temporary order.  So, Tuesday was all for nothing, will have to get a new temp hearing scheduled and do it all over again 

[Makersmarksman]

Turns out she actually didnt fire her attorney, it was just another lie. Anyway, her attorney drafted the order but left the visitation part empty, stating "my client wasnt happy with the outcome of the temp hearing and wants to modify custody, she would like the 12 year old every weekend through the summer." I had already agreed in court to every other weekend and one night for dinner.  I simply had my lawyer reply that I wish to stick to the original agreement.  Trial date is set for Sept 26.