Mistake

[JerryRG]

Sorry I came across the suicide letter my exgf wrote the night she overdosed in my apartment and is now calming I raped her. I posted it here but pulled it because it isn't appropriate for me to put it here for everyone to read.

My apologies to bpdfamily

[once removed]

no worries JerryRG, i can understand why youd want to keep that private. if its on your mind, would you like to talk about your thoughts and feelings surrounding it?

[JerryRG]

Hello once removed

The thing that struck me most was the fact nothing much changed from then till now. That letter was written on April 26 2013, we were engaged a short time later and she was pregnant in July.

When reading her letter I knew at that time she was a pwBPD. I had other notes saved around that same time from website investigations into BPD. There was no dought in my mind and she informed me many times that she was in dbt during the time she was married.

At that time I was sleeping and she came into my room between 2 and 3 am slurring her words and fell on my bed. I knew what she had done and immediately called 911, them team and police were there in minutes, I live just a block away from our hospital.

My gf used my computer to write the note and left everything running so I could find her letter, the police read it too. She left her fb account open too, I noticed a few guys had messaged her asking for favours for her asking for money.

She referred to her meth use in the letter and her failed marrage.

She said she loved me and she knew I loved her, the strange thing was she seemed to believe she was with me to save me, rescue? Don't remember that at all because I was slightly depressed but not suicidal until later after being with her for a while.

Bad memories mixed with panic. I sat with her that night into morning all by myself. Her family had enough of her threats.

[Hadlee]

Not to take away the horrible things she has done to you, Jerry, but what you describe is someone in such terrible internal pain.  Reading your story made me sad.  It's so easy to be angry and think they are evil, but most of them aren't evil, they are tortured souls stuck in a constant cycle of chaos and pain, and unable to escape the demons inside of them.

How awful it must be to live with BPD.

Hugs to you, Jerry, for having to witness that

[JerryRG]

Thank you busygall

I can understand the inner turmoil a little and I'm slowly beginning to have empathy for her, I gave her my life and the key words are "willingly gave". The reason I'm angry at times is her unawareness of all I gave her and now seems to have all been nothing more than living in her world to suit her needs to accomplish her goals. Telling people I raped her is unreal.

In other words I feel used.

[Hadlee]

In other words I feel used.

I can understand you feeling that way.  To be accused of rape is hideous and quite difficult to comprehend why on earth someone would come out with such an accusation.  But, they do, unfortunately.  I have no answers to that.  Only a very sick individual would go to such lengths.

[WoundedBibi]

In other words I feel used.

I can understand you feeling that way.  To be accused of rape is hideous and quite difficult to comprehend why on earth someone would come out with such an accusation.  But, they do, unfortunately.  I have no answers to that.  Only a very sick individual would go to such lengths.

Let's not forget there are pwBPD that dissociate so much they for instance cannot tell if something really happened or if they had a nightmare, or that project and dissociate pinning whatever really happened but with someone else on you. So some might 'make things up' whether it is 'on purpose' or not and others might actually think something happened even if it really didn't. Which is the case here we couldn't possibly say. But stories/accusations of rape and sexual abuse and events of selling her body for money or favours are a clear pattern in the life of your ex, Jerry. I suspect there is at least a kernel of truth in all of her stories somewhere probably in her childhood and probably the reason she developed BPD in the first place.

Not that that changes the fact you are in pain Jerry.

The fact she is unaware goes with her BPD; her internal world is too loud, too messy, to have any energy or mental energy left to pay attention to anybody else's emotional world. The internal vortex 24/7 is too exhausting to be able to be there for anybody else. Besides, if you don't understand your own vortex of contradicting emotions how could you possibly understand anybody else's emotions?

I'm not sure I understand your feelings of being used Jerry. Can you explain?

[drummerboy5]

Sorry I came across the suicide letter my exgf wrote the night she overdosed in my apartment and is now calming I raped her. I posted it here but pulled it because it isn't appropriate for me to put it here for everyone to read.

My apologies to bpdfamily

[/quote.

My exBPD/npd was on detox meds for alcohol addiction and came to my house one night and drank four small bottles of vodka. She was so sick I thought she was going to die. She wouldn't let me take her to hospital and told me not to tell her family... I can't believe the nerve of your ex say you raped her that is the lowest of the low!

[Hadlee]

Let's not forget there are pwBPD that dissociate so much they for instance cannot tell if something really happened or if they had a nightmare, or that project and dissociate pinning whatever really happened but with someone else on you. So some might 'make things up' whether it is 'on purpose' or not and others might actually think something happened even if it really didn't.

Good point, WoundedBibi.  Thanks for pointing that out

[zeus123]

DBT/CBT treatments of borderlines doesn't heal them, because BPD isn't an issue of a broken mind~ it's an issue of a broken heart.

The borderline needs something they can devalue you with. They'll even invent stuff, if they can't find anything valid to use against you.

[WoundedBibi]

DBT/CBT treatments of borderlines doesn't heal them, because BPD isn't an issue of a broken mind~ it's an issue of a broken heart.

The borderline needs something they can devalue you with. They'll even invent stuff, if they can't find anything valid to use against you.

Who said anything about DBT?

Ah... .never mind... Jerry did. Because his ex did DBT.

[WoundedBibi]

DBT/CBT treatments of borderlines doesn't heal them, because BPD isn't an issue of a broken mind~ it's an issue of a broken heart.

The borderline needs something they can devalue you with. They'll even invent stuff, if they can't find anything valid to use against you.

Actually that is a really interesting way of seeing it. I don't agree with you on the inventing things as it completely ignores the dissociation some pwBPD do too (not all pwBPD are alike zeus) and I don't agree with you the mind isn't broken but the broken heart is an interesting concept.

Yes... .child gets it's heart broken by primary caregiver(s) which leads to mental illness... Heart can't be mended again, mental state neither...

I'm going to let that stew in the back of my mind for a while...

[zeus123]

WoundedBibi thanks for your comment. BPD is NOT A MENTAL ILLNESS OR DISEASE! BPD is spawned by arrested emotional growth, which renders a person incapable of impulse control, adult reasoning, capacity for empathy or ability to self-soothe. BPD isn't something we're born with--nor is it inherited. While DBT can help curb their volatile acting-out impulses, borderline disorder can't be eliminated with modalities such as DBT That fail to address/resolve infancy and childhood abandonment trauma and enmeshment issues. Much of BPD distress occurs within the first year of life, due to inadequate emotional attunment and bonding with the birth mother. These primal deficits influence self-worth and partner selection for a lifetime. That is why BPD is an issue of a broken heart, it has nothing to do with the mind.

[JerryRG]

Hello WoundedBibi

I guess instead of saying I feel used it might be better to say I felt like I wasted so much time and energy on my exgf and trying to make things work. Reading her letter only reminded me she is pretty much in the same place in her life. Just weeks ago commenting on fb her wish to take a "dirt nap"

I understand dissociation but to my knowledge it isn't selective and for her to bring up the rape alligation at this point I can only assume it is her attempt to influence her new bf into believing I'm an awful and abusive person.

I told him he was next, I don't believe she has changed nor can she and her behaviours will continue in every relationship.

She asked me to get over my resentments and offers peace then these alligations and the latest is she's going to make my life a living hell. Drama, chaos, confusion and inner turmoil indeed, she feeds on emotion, drew me in and I became accustomed to the emotional excitement as well.

[Hadlee]

BPD is NOT A MENTAL ILLNESS OR DISEASE!

Every article I have read states that BPD IS a serious mental illness.

I'm confused now

[WoundedBibi]

WoundedBibi thanks for your comment. BPD is NOT A MENTAL ILLNESS OR DISEASE! BPD is spawned by arrested emotional growth, which renders a person incapable of impulse control, adult reasoning, capacity for empathy or ability to self-soothe. BPD isn't something we're born with--nor is it inherited. While DBT can help curb their volatile acting-out impulses, borderline disorder can't be eliminated with modalities such as DBT That fail to address/resolve infancy and childhood abandonment trauma and enmeshment issues. Much of BPD distress occurs within the first year of life, due to inadequate emotional attunment and bonding with the birth mother. These primal deficits influence self-worth and partner selection for a lifetime. That is why BPD is an issue of a broken heart, it has nothing to do with the mind.

I deduct from what you write that you only consider brain defects as mental illnesses. So depression wouldn't be a mental illness either according to your reasoning.

Actually there is scientific evidence that does support there is a difference in brain structure between people with a PD and people without a PD and scientific evidence that supports BPD has an hereditary component too.

And 'a broken heart' has everything to do with the mind as your heart doesn't actually break... Emotions are seated in your brain not your heart.

[WoundedBibi]

BPD is NOT A MENTAL ILLNESS OR DISEASE!

Every article I have read states that BPD IS a serious mental illness.

I'm confused now

By one person giving one opinion?

[JerryRG]

BPD is a personality disorder, some mental illnesses can be helped with medications where pwBPD have a lifetime of behaviours, attitudes, choices, thinking patterns and beliefs that make up who they are and because of this they can only be helped if 1. They are aware of their problem. 2 they have the ambition to make changes?

That's my take on pwBPD

[WoundedBibi]

Hello WoundedBibi

I guess instead of saying I feel used it might be better to say I felt like I wasted so much time and energy on my exgf and trying to make things work. Reading her letter only reminded me she is pretty much in the same place in her life. Just weeks ago commenting on fb her wish to take a "dirt nap"

I understand dissociation but to my knowledge it isn't selective and for her to bring up the rape alligation at this point I can only assume it is her attempt to influence her new bf into believing I'm an awful and abusive person.

I told him he was next, I don't believe she has changed nor can she and her behaviours will continue in every relationship.

She asked me to get over my resentments and offers peace then these alligations and the latest is she's going to make my life a living hell. Drama, chaos, confusion and inner turmoil indeed, she feeds on emotion, drew me in and I became accustomed to the emotional excitement as well.

Okay. So you are angry you wasted time and energy on someone that hasn't moved one inch forward in life. You wanted, hoped, expected that with your input she would move away from all the cr*p and she didn't.

But you invested in her willingly. It's a bit... .I dunno... .like you're angry you didn't get the return you expected on your investment. Did you then not do this out of the goodness of your heart? Out of love? It's a bit like you had expectations you never voiced, or realized even, and now you're angry because she didn't live up to become the person you made her to be in your mind.

[JerryRG]

Yeah I guess I'm a little angry she didn't want to learn and grow with me, once I found answers and offered her the same choices I couldn't understand her wanting to stay in her misery. She begged for my attention and help yet refused everything I had and knew.

Very frustrating to watch someone drown in 2 inches of water and sit back and watch.

[once removed]

WoundedBibi thanks for your comment. BPD is NOT A MENTAL ILLNESS OR DISEASE! BPD is spawned by arrested emotional growth, which renders a person incapable of impulse control, adult reasoning, capacity for empathy or ability to self-soothe. BPD isn't something we're born with--nor is it inherited. While DBT can help curb their volatile acting-out impulses, borderline disorder can't be eliminated with modalities such as DBT That fail to address/resolve infancy and childhood abandonment trauma and enmeshment issues. Much of BPD distress occurs within the first year of life, due to inadequate emotional attunment and bonding with the birth mother. These primal deficits influence self-worth and partner selection for a lifetime. That is why BPD is an issue of a broken heart, it has nothing to do with the mind.

there is strong evidence of a genetic component to BPD; there isnt certainty as to how much is nature vs nurture, however you can put two people in a similar or subjectively 'worse' environment, have one emerge with BPD, and the other emerge differently.

lets not leave out schema therapy, which definitely addresses those issues.

BPD does involve cognitive distortions. BPD is in the DSM - the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders.

JerryRG, it must have been highly triggering to come across the note, perhaps a lot of flash back. did it make you feel more along the lines of anger or sadness? or, perhaps, regret?

being accused of rape is horrifying beyond my imagination. especially by a former partner. its an incredible adjustment to go from being so close to a person to feeling like enemies. you can know the truth all day long and never lose sight of it, but to know a person feels that way, or at least claims to, is frustrating, and on a certain level, betrayal. you gave an awful lot of yourself to that relationship. i think that youre right about her motivations behind the claim; its very sad, but that makes it no less painful, and makes it feel no less personal  .

[zeus123]

BPD IS NOT a "mental illness". Yes it's listed in the DSM-IV and V~ but so are a lot of other clinical issues(ADD/ADHD, BIPOLAR DISORDER, ANXIETY DISORDER, etc) that have nothing to do with mental illness or incapacity! Psychopathology isn't caused by a genetic or biological abnormality, and it can't be inherited. It's purely an environmentally induced 'nurture' issue, which is passed from each generation to the next.

BPD is constructed from a cumulative, complex group of emotional injuries to one's sense of self, which begin within the first year of life due to deficits in affection/touch/holding and emotional attunment with the birth mother that derail a baby's ability to retain a nourishing attachment bond with her.

[JerryRG]

Yes once removed

I heard her make this claim about so many others, my ego just didn't think she'd use this on me as well. I guess I thought I was different or special being we have a child together.

My mistake is to treat her as a rational human being?

I did my best to protect her and keep her from killing herself and in return I'm smeared and painted black.

Knowing what I know of her I hurt her when I dumped her and she believes anything and everything are fair to use to injure me. She chased and hounded me for years and years and each time I gave in thinking she'd actually changed things stayed the same and she started abusing me and criticisms and disrespect became her primary way of treating me. I love more, give more, back down and give her room and that just gave her more power.

[Hadlee]

BPD is NOT A MENTAL ILLNESS OR DISEASE!

Every article I have read states that BPD IS a serious mental illness.

I'm confused now

By one person giving one opinion?

I was actually being sarcastic.  Fail cakes on my part

[WoundedBibi]

Yeah I guess I'm a little angry she didn't want to learn and grow with me, once I found answers and offered her the same choices I couldn't understand her wanting to stay in her misery. She begged for my attention and help yet refused everything I had and knew.

Very frustrating to watch someone drown in 2 inches of water and sit back and watch.

But surely you know now it is not a question of not wanting to but not being able to?

I mean the ability to see there is a need to escape the misery, there is an option to escape the misery, trying to overcome the sheer and utter panic even thinking about looking at yourself and your behaviour and your pain is worth it, depends on where on the scale of BPD she is, high functioning or low functioning, and what other illnesses are mixed in. And judging by how you describe your ex (sorry if I am dashing any hopes here) I am not holding my breath your ex will ever be able to.

I think you want something from her she just isn't capable of doing and never will be. You can be angry with her for that or ask yourself if your expectations were and are realistic.

[JerryRG]

I understand what you are pointing to WoundedBibi

My expectations were maybe higher than she could achieve, I learned in Alanon A+B=C.  In any relationship when one person changes the other has to change as well. I was able to see my problems and I can change and I have changed.


Maybe she cannot or will not change but I couldn't live the life she chose. Misery and chaos isn't for me and I charish honesty and respect. If that's all she has to offer then I'm glad I got away from her.

Another thing I just thought of, I tried to lift her out of misery and she fought her best to keep me down, that is what makes all the difference to me.

[steelwork]

BPD IS NOT a "mental illness". Yes it's listed in the DSM-IV and V but so are a lot of other clinical issues(ADD/ADHD, BIPOLAR DISORDER, ANXIETY DISORDER, etc) that have nothing to do with mental illness or incapacity! Psychopathology isn't caused by a genetic or biological abnormality, and it can't be inherited. It's purely an environmentally induced 'nurture' issue, which is passed from each generation to the next.

BPD is constructed from a cumulative, complex group of emotional injuries to one's sense of self, which begin within the first year of life due to deficits in affection/touch/holding and emotional attunment with the birth mother that derail a baby's ability to retain a nourishing attachment bond with her.

So, leaving aside the current view that there is in fact a genetic predisposition for personality disorders, your position is that something is not an illness if it's caused by environment? So what is a broken arm?

Also, look up "epigenetics".

Also, DSM-V stands for "iagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition". So you're making a distinction between a disorder and an illness. What is that distinction, and why should it matter to us?

[steelwork]

On a broader note, I wonder why it bothers some people so much to see others expressing compassion. Is it that they feel it's a zero-sum game? Any compassion shown to someone who hurt them directly subtracts compassion from their account?

[WoundedBibi]

I understand what you are pointing to WoundedBibi

My expectations were maybe higher than she could achieve, I learned in Alanon A+B=C.  In any relationship when one person changes the other has to change as well. I was able to see my problems and I can change and I have changed.


Maybe she cannot or will not change but I couldn't live the life she chose. Misery and chaos isn't for me and I charish honesty and respect. If that's all she has to offer then I'm glad I got away from her.

Another thing I just thought of, I tried to lift her out of misery and she fought her best to keep me down, that is what makes all the difference to me.

You're right; when one partner changes the other one has to too. That's something a lot of partners of people in therapy don't get: their partner is in therapy, all will be well, they can do what they always did, the partner will solve whatever issue they had and that's that. And then the relationship starts to buckle. So the partner needs to change too as the one in therapy will change the dynamics or the relationship goes out the window.

It is good you got out, because it is all she has to offer.

And it makes perfect sense from a BPD point if view that she fought you with all she had to not lift her out; lifting her out would have meant at some point she would have had to look at herself and confront herself with all of her core pain and shame. It's just too much and too big for her Jerry. Too much panic, too intense feeling that she is going to die feeling all of that pain.

[FannyB]

WoundedBibi thanks for your comment. BPD is NOT A MENTAL ILLNESS OR DISEASE! BPD is spawned by arrested emotional growth, which renders a person incapable of impulse control, adult reasoning, capacity for empathy or ability to self-soothe. BPD isn't something we're born with--nor is it inherited. While DBT can help curb their volatile acting-out impulses, borderline disorder can't be eliminated with modalities such as DBT That fail to address/resolve infancy and childhood abandonment trauma and enmeshment issues. Much of BPD distress occurs within the first year of life, due to inadequate emotional attunment and bonding with the birth mother. These primal deficits influence self-worth and partner selection for a lifetime. That is why BPD is an issue of a broken heart, it has nothing to do with the mind.

My ex certainly matches this description - but she was raised by a borderline or bipolar mother. Doesn't mean she didn't have an inbuilt disposition to going down the BPD route that a more emotionally robust sibling might have avoided though.  Whatever the roots of the problem I think it is very difficult to disentangle them from the disorder once it's taken hold. It's almost a learned way of thinking that has served them so well for so long that ditching it is a terrifying prospect.   


Fanny

[JerryRG]

Agreed WoundedBibi

I heard her say her new bf accepts her just the way she is, I loved her and myself to stay where we were. If he enjoys the lies, manipulation, chaos and threats then good for him.

I've had enough bs to last a long long time, life isn't always easy or fun but living in constant stress and misery only keeps us weak for when the real s*** hits the fan. That is when we need be strong and focused on ourselves to survive the "real" emergencies and not waste precious energy on "cancer" that never even existed except I'm her mind.