I have custody and need to help my D8's relationship with her BPD mom

[Mr. Dad]

Hi All,
The courts just reinstated joint custody of my daughter after her mother accused me of all kinds of horrible things and tried to get a domestic violence restraining order against me. It has been a huge 6 month ordeal and ridiculously expensive,but alas the courts did not find one of her accusations credible. Yay judge, for seeing the truth.
Now that that is behind us I want to give my daughter all the help I can dealing with her volatile, unpredictable mother.
My daughter has been seeing therapist that her mother selected who is a very sweet person, but will not engage with me about helping our daughter navigate her mother's behavior.
The therapist seems to see me as trying to get her on "my side" when I try to get her to understand what a difficult person my ex is to live with, and that that behavior is the most important issue our daughter has to deal with at this point.
The therapist confides in me that she cannot figure out why our daughter has tantrums and separation anxiety at her mother's house, but will not engage in discussion of the symptoms her mother's BPD.
Of course on some level I do want the therapist on my side, but much more importantly I want someone for my daughter to confide in who understands the difficulty of living with someone with BPD.
Because of the joint custody, she now needs my permission to keep seeing our daughter.
I am wondering if anyone has experience with a kind of therapist, or a recommendation for someone in the San Francisco Bay Area to work with an 8-year-old daughter of a mother with BPD?
I worry that by not acknowledging her mothers disorder, she is making life all the more challenging for our daughter who has enough to deal with.

[kells76]

Hi there Mr. Dad, and welcome to the boards. Glad you were able to find us.

Although I don't have enough time to talk with you about your situation right now, rest assured, I'm looking forward to replying more thoroughly when I do have more time! It sounds like while on the one hand a lot of good stuff has happened, you're feeling kind of stuck about the therapist.

Hang in there, and I promise, you WILL get feedback here. Keep letting us know any more questions, particulars, or things you'd like help with. We're here for you!

kells76

[Mr. Dad]

Thanks Kells76, I had a pretty good talk with her therapist today. The therapist seems to have noticed some of my ex's symptoms since we last spoke, so I am feeling more optimistic about my daughter continuing to see her. I  very much look forward to any insights you might have to share.

[sfbayjed]

Its a crap shoot with the therapist. Trust your gut about the person.
I would stay away from career changers that went into being a therapist later in life.
Get a PHD if you can.  
It is better to chase a bad one a way and take the flack.

The good part is that a Therapist is a mandated reporter. So if you can get a good one you are doing her a favor, Don't expect them to report the emotional type abuse. They haven't lived it.


Keep in mind. BPD's are very convincing. And they never quit, so there is a possibility that your BPD will hook the therapist emotionally and turn them into an negative advocate.


Don't expect smooth sailing. Don't fool yourself. Accept that it will a bumpy ride until they are 18.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Mr. Dad,

Welcome!   How wonderful that you are wanting to protect and help your D. That's what she will desperately need, consistency and the reminders that it's not her fault. So glad that you are trying to be her advocate and balance. 

There's a thread we have in our worshops that may have some helpful information for you, Child Development and Parents with Mental Illness. There are lists of what normal development looks like which is pretty interesting.

I m glad you had a good discussion with the T today. That's encouraging. 
What do you think of the article?

Wools

[kells76]

You may know this already, but often, T's for kids can be pretty firm about not getting in the middle of divorced parents. My husband's kids' T is great, and at the same time, adamant that she is NOT a T for the parents. Perhaps your D's T is trying to stay out of the middle of you and Mom?

If so, you can pivot your focus away from "I have to convince you that Mom is a BIG problem" and more on to "How can I be the most loving and validating dad I can be with Daughter?" It's a more subtle approach, but -- if you can hang in there -- it can pay off.

It sounds like your D's mom is, uh, not great at telling the truth, and is high drama - to say the least. I suspect she might be able to hold it together for the T for a while, but not long term. You can think about taking a long term view, where you "put money in the bank" by busting $$ doing the work with your D in therapy -- face your faults, build good skills. It seems likely that Mom will be able to talk about how great a mom she is, but won't be able to face her faults or genuinely do the work.

Then, down the road, after T has seen you really working and having a great relationship with D, time to make the "withdrawal" from the bank: "T, I'm confused -- what am I missing working on as a dad, if Daughter is still having tantrums and separation anxiety?"

Cha-ching. If T is worth her salt she will see, instead of having to be convinced or told, that -- well -- the problem has to come from somewhere, and it's not you.

My husband (DH) had a similar trajectory. Mom picked the (young... .) T, and it took a solid year of DH busting his chops in counseling with the kids for T to move past her very neutral stance and basically be like, yeah, the problems are coming from Mom's house.

Hope this helps for starters. I can also post a link to an article on "ju-jitsu parenting" (unless someone else beats me to it!), which has helpful tips on how to talk with professionals about The  Problem, without you sounding like the problem.

[BeagleGirl]

Mr. Dad,
I'm glad to hear that you have regained time and decision making rights with your daughter.  Some day I hope she understands how hard you have fought for her.

I went through a period with S15's counselor where I felt like he just didn't see what was going on.  Looking back, I realize that my emotions were pegged at 100% and I wasn't giving "the process" enough time.  Not saying that's your situation, just think it's worth considering giving it a bit more time.  I now appreciate that S15's therapist has a bit of skepticism and watches for proof/patterns.

Another thing that helped (and is still helping) me was having my T and S15's T talk.  Better yet, my T was previously our marriage counselor and dBPDxh signed a release for her to talk to S15's T.  That gave S15's T an opportunity to get the viewpoint of another professional and ask questions about family dynamics that he feels may be impacting S15.  Any chance you could do something similar?

BG

[kells76]

Hi again Mr. Dad;

BeagleGirl makes a really helpful point:

Another thing that helped (and is still helping) me was having my T and S15's T talk.  Better yet, my T was previously our marriage counselor and dBPDxh signed a release for her to talk to S15's T

We did this too -- our weird "quirk" was that our marriage counselor (the MC for me and my husband) had also worked with DH and the kids' mom back when they were together, so he knew all about Mom's... .wackiness. Small community. Anyway, while that may not be the case for you, the point still stands -- if you don't have a T for yourself, it's really helpful to have one, and then, an additional benefit is having your daughter's T and your T talk.

That can be a way for your concerns about Mom to see the light of day, without you having to look like the guy who can't let go of talking about how bad Mom is.

Some members here have gotten a bad deal when the disordered parent picks a T, and gets someone who is malleable and a pushover and takes sides with Mom. If you're concerned that your D's T might be more on that side of things, then it could be even more helpful for you to have your T engage with your D's T.

Like BeagleGirl talked about, having your trusted T give you feedback on what s/he thinks of your D's T could really help you one way or another, so that -- ideally -- if/when your T says "Yup, D's T is seeing things just fine, and is making sure to get Mom's buy-in so that she doesn't grab D and leave counseling", you can relax.

Actually, now that I'm remembering more, both our MC and the kids' T had to work extra hard off the bat to get Mom's buy-in (long story short, we had an aborted attempt at mediation using our MC to work with Mom, Stepdad, DH, and I). The first few "mediation" sessions MC almost had to bend over backwards to keep Mom in the room. And from what I've heard, the kids' T had to work pretty hard to make sure Mom would hear her. So, not sure if this is your situation, but just bear in mind that sometimes T's will recognize who is in it for the long haul and who is ready to bolt at the first word they don't like, and they may work extra hard to get a foot in the door with the problem parent.

Keep us posted on how things are going, and if this feedback is/isn't helpful.

Oh, and here's the link to the "ju-jitsu parenting" article:

www.drcachildress.org/asp/admin/getFile.asp?RID=63&TID=6&FN=pdf

Dr. Childress's site really helped me get a handle on what Mom was up to, and how to talk about it with people in general and counselors in particular, without sounding vindictive or blame-y.

[livednlearned]

The therapist seems to see me as trying to get her on "my side" when I try to get her to understand what a difficult person my ex is to live with

She is resisting triangulation, it sounds like. Triangulation comes in part from family systems theory, and is useful to understand for those of us wanting to exit chronic high conflict.

You may have experienced triangulation in your own childhood, and then had it become rocket fuel in your BPD relationship, and now your child is in therapy, seeing a T who all but expects the parents to triangulate. It's pretty common for people here to experience.  

In 1966 Murray Bowen, M.D. published Bowen's family systems theory. One of the most critical elements of Bowen's eight part theory was the concept of triangulation in the family. Simply put, when someone finds themself in conflict with another person they will reach out to a third person. The resulting triangle (e.g., three-person exchange) is more comfortable as the tension is shifted around three people instead of just two.

Karpman later visualized the drama triangle to help explain how it contributes to ongoing conflict.

Involvement in an unhealthy drama triangle is not something another person is doing to you.  It's something you are doing with another person or persons. Karpman drama triangles involve at least two people and often three and can grow to even more if multiple linked triangles form.

Drama triangles form when participants who are predispositioned to adopt the roles of a drama triangle come together over an issue. There are motivations, often subconscious, for each participant in the triangle. The reason the triangle endures is that each participant gets some psychological needs met and they feel justified in their role - often not realizing the broader dysfunction and harm that is occurring. In short, each participant is acting upon self-satisfying but unhealthy roles, rather than acting in a genuinely responsible or altruistic manner.

I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong by wanting T to know about BPD mom, only to say that the T is trying to work therapeutically with D without getting triangulated with either parent. Since she likely expects a dysfunctional dynamic and is getting it, she's responding the way one might expect.

It might help to go back to the T and say, "I need a reset. I really need to focus on what is best for D, how to support her, and you can help me with that. Can you recommend any books or resources or anything that would make me the best parent I can be for her? What do you see parents doing wrong that you wish they wouldn't do, and is there anything you want me to pay attention to, that I could do better, so she learns how to be emotionally resilient?"

You probably don't talk like that   but that's the gist.

The book Don't Alienate the Kids: Raising Emotionally Resilient Kids When One Parent is BPD by Bill Eddy was a game changer. It helped me take back the time and energy I was focusing on ex's toxic parenting, and focus instead of modeling what my son needed from me. I was so stressed and anxious and to be honest, emotionally preoccupied. That book helped me change how I functioned as a parent.

Jujitsu parenting is also excellent, like kells76 says. You can access it here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=320051.msg12932189#msg12932189

[BeagleGirl]

I'll second (or third) Kells and LnL on shifting your approach with your daughter's T.  Not only will it potentially improve your communication with the T, but it may help your mental and emotional health.  

I distinctly remember a couple debrief sessions I had with S15's T that were especially frustrating for me.  Looking back, I realize that my goal was to get T to understand that dBPDxh was the issue and get dBPDxh to "behave".  I felt like he wasn't realizing he could fix the whole situation if he just fixed dBPDxh's behavior.     Now I realize that he was putting focus on what he could actually achieve - helping S15 learn how to cope with dBPDxh's behavior and the fall out.  As I shifted my focus to "how can I help you help S15?" I started hearing him say things like "It's really difficult to co-parent when one parent isn't willing to cooperate" and "I will mention to dBPDxh how that behavior may impact S15 and suggest this alternative approach".  Even "I see S15 falling into a passive aggressive behavior pattern that I believe he has witnessed his father use.  As you know, that can be incredibly destructive in a relationship and we can work together to help S15 recognize what he is doing and develop healthier responses".

The shift in my focus not only (I believe) freed S15's T to be more open about the dynamics he saw without "defending" dBPDxh to remain impartial, it also helped me let go of the idea that I had any control over what dBPDxh did and the impact that might have on S15.  It was part of my radical acceptance journey.  I've been enjoying a month of incredible peace and emotional renewal and when I was trying to find words for how I've gotten to this emotional stability she reflected back "You've let go of responsibility for dBPDxh".  That definitely had the ring of truth. 

As Kells said, it was incredibly comforting to have my T share with me how impressed she was with the level of trust my T had established with S15.

BG