Hello BP140,

I was thinking about what you are going through and I must say that you MUST keep your own identity; if nothing else, for your own health! What goes on in the mind can seriously affect physical health, and then what use would you be.

Believe me I know first-hand how much it hurts to see someone go through this. My own high-functioning daughter, who is 38 now actually became embarrassed (I guess) and cut me off 11-15 years ago!

Recently I was given her current email address and got up enough nerve to write her. The email I sent was not gushy, just factual, I told her some things I realized and about the condition of the husband she left last summer. I was shocked that she wrote back more than just telling me not to contact her.

Her words were not kind, and she blamed me and the SIL for her own problems. But she wrote! So, she is slowly but surely getting better. Who knows if someday she will be healthy enough to re-connect with me, without just blaming.

The grieving is difficult, knowing now that she does seem to have a personality disorder. But I also know that she’ll be ok.

I will move on with my own life, as she would expect in her right mind. I am going overseas soon for long-term missionary work, but my email will always be there when she’s ready, plus she could always contact my brother or sister to reach me.

The main thing is that for our own sakes, we have to let go and trust on the foundation we built as we raised our children. And know and believe that they will find us again when they are in their right mind.

You know that mom and stepdad have poor judgment as to what is appropriate to do around children/teenagers so of course is it concerning whom they choose to associate with.

Hi Cap1960,

I hope for your own mental and physical health that you are letting go. I know it’s difficult, but you must move on. That could mean that she feels you are abandoning her and she may retaliate. But you MUST let go and live your own life.

She’s going to be ok, believe me I know how difficult it is to lose a child to this illness, but you need to live your own healthy life, and get out of the unhealthy one you have let yourself get sucked into.

It sounds like over the years you built a foundation, and while that is good, it sounds like you have immersed yourself in her unhealthy life. But you said yourself that she’s living her own functional life, so now it’s time to take back your own identity.
If you don’t, you too will sink into a MH pit and will struggle with problems you did not think you had.

Pat yourself on the back, show love, concern, and a sense of who you really are to her family and physically move away.

Remember who you really are, get some therapy and find the real you again; you will all be better for this. She can live her own life and you can restart your own!

I wish you the best, remember, the grieving over this will come to an end, even if it means thinking about her and your grands a lot. But you have GOT to continue your momentum and restart your own life again! It may be difficult at first, but things will get better and the Grands will see a healthy you which will be better for everyone!

You can do this!

If you're in the USA and already providing health care coverage you're required to continue coverage until the divorce is final.  Even thereafter the insurance company must offer her a year or more of coverage at an unsubsidized rate.  If need be, ask your HR about details of COBRA coverage post-marriage.


You have no assurance whether she will get better.  Frankly, her getting better is an iffy thing at best.  You have to strategize for worst case outcomes.  Already you know she has already leaped into a new relationship.  Even if this one fails, she may start other relationships.  She is an adult and you've already tried for years to support her but the reality is that you can't fix her.  Your focus needs to be on the minor child.

With a wee little child you cannot afford to be too-fair or too-nice or too-generous.  Your child needs you to step up and be the reasonably normal and proactive parent that she needs.  That your spouse has had need of mental health services (and not just long ago in the past) is valid basis to reveal during your divorce.  Make sure you have some sort of documentation of this sort of events.  With HIPAA laws restricting you, it may be hard to get access to such incidents and records later.
*Do not downplay or hide this!*

Especially be aware that when suicidal threats have been an issue in the past, you need documentation so that when you do call emergency services (911, police, etc) and she predictably denies any such self harm then you have proof she was (or claimed to be) in distress.

Also, be aware that some security systems may not record sound.  Just having a video record may not be enough to document aggressive or suicidal vocal behavior.

One of the tasks of the teen years is establishing who they are. Teens know they are "not their parent" but may not know who they are. I think there's a tendency to be "not the parent" - not in a negative way but the idea that they want to be themselves- chosing their own clothes, hairstyles, music. They still need parental rules and boundaries and also some space to make their own decisions in an age appropriate way.

This can be hard on the parent- it seems that the teen is overly critical of the parent's choices. A parent with BPD may find this difficult to handle. On the other hand, teens still want approval and love from their parents while at the same time seemingly pushing away from them.

I agree with your concern that your D is going along with her mother's choices. What she has in common with her mother is a changing sense of self- which is more normal for teens to now know who they are yet, but not the norm for an adult. One thought is that the teen is exploring her mother's interests or she's enmeshed and fearful of considering something different from her mother.

It's good that you are aware of this and are involving therapists and also providing her with an emotionally safe environment for part of the time. I don't know what can be legally done. It also helps if your D has other female role models - such as mother's of her friends, female relatives to observe.

It's also possible that some confusion is inevitable. From my BPD mother's perspective, she blamed the issues in our relationship during my teen years on me. On my part, my self esteem was low and I was a people pleaser- afraid to be myself and trying to be like other people because I feared they wouldn't like me otherwise. This may be what your D is doing as well. This took some work on my part with counseling and 12 step groups. Perhaps your being proactive will help your D avoid some of this, but one's mother is a significant person.

I do too. Not that I would accuse all men, but bringing a new male in the house with 2 teen girls -- I'd want to know more about that situation and who is going to be there with the girls.

Hello,

I have been in a relationship with my wife for 6 years and married for almost 2 years. My Wife was diagnosed with EUPD around 4 years ago after noticing that she felt a little unstable and after may appointmenets and tests she was diagnosed.

I myself have been previously married and I will openly say that that marriage broke down due to an affair that I had. This is something I am not proud of and the realtionship I entered after that marriage also broke down due to my new partner then cheating on me and out of the blue leaving. At this point I realised what it truly felt like to be cheated on and realise just how much hurt I had caused my ex wife and I have always vowed to NEVER cheat again. I know the age old saying once a cheater always a cheater but I have made a promise to myself to never do that.

My wife entered my life when we met through mutual friends. A hobby of mine is photography and I work with many models both male and female and it was through this network I met my now wife. Anyway throughout the years things have been up and down and there have been times where I felt like I am walking on egg shells but I have always dealt with it as when I learned about her condition I read about what it entails. When I read that pwBPD can often cheat I have always mentally prepared myself for this. I have been through the cycles of idealisation and devaluation numerous times but I have seen them through.

Now fast forward through the relationship to the start of this year. I have three step daughters one of which we believe may have ADHD or is on the spectrum somehow. This particular daughter accused me hittiing her at the start of the year (This is something that NEVER happened as I have never been violent in my life and especially not towards a minor). This accusation quickly escalated and children services got involved as well as the police. They requested that I leave the family home while they perform their investigations, something I agreed to as I had done nothing wrong and wanted to be as co-operative as possible. I left that very day, this is something I seriously feared deep down as i knew in my wife's eyes I was abandoning her as I was also told that I would not be allowed to be in contact with my wife either.

So I left and tried to not contact her. After a few days I was struggling being away from my family and my head was all over the place as I felt like i was losing everything and also faced a serious police investigation. This lasted for a period of 8 weeks. I was unable to visit my home, I was unable to even be on my own with my own son, my world was literally upside down. Even though I wasnt suppose to contact my wife I still checked in and each time id face hostility from her and then I also got messages from her friend giving me a lot of grief. Her friend is a very toxic individual who openly hates men. During this time I received an anonymous email saying my wife was seeking solitude with another man. I approached her about it and all i got was 'With all the stuff I am dealing with i'm not even going to honour a response'.

Anyway the Police investigation was eventually closed with no further action as there was no evidence to support the claims being made against me and I was allowed back home. I went home and things just didnt feel the same. I had been away from my wife for nearly 8 weeks and I was just glad to be home but it felt like on my return she really didnt want me to be there. Anyway as the weeks passed by I just felt like she was distant from me. I put it down to the fact we were still dealing with childrens services and also that the child who accused me of hitting ehr was now living with her dad.

Anyway one day she left her phone unguarded and I just couldnt resist having a look and to my fear I found out that something had actually happened with another man. It turned out she had slept with this guy 2 days after I was requested to leave. They continued conversing even when I was at home and he knew about me. I'd also found out she had also had a fling with a woman during this time and was also sending illicit photos to a guy from work. I confronted her about it and she instantly turned everything on me. She blamed me for not having her child at home, she said why don't I go and chat to a a specific girl on facebook whom she got very jealous of because I had liked her photos., (She is a model I had previously worked with and the photos were taken by my other photographer friends and I had to remove her as a friend off FB because of this). She isntantly got on the phone to her toxic friend and she was like 'That man blah blah blah'. I waited for some remorse or an apology and got nothing. I resided to the fact that I wont get that from her. Naturally my trust bottomed out. I have been trying to get close to her but she thinks all i'm after is sex and thats not it, I just want to feel close, just a cuddle here and there but I get nothing. Anyway as time has gone I have been trying hard but she has been so cold towards me. She eventually left the job she was in which TBH was a releif as all these affairs had happeend with people she met through her job at a hotel chain.

Fast forward a few months where things have been proper rocky and I once again could resist the urge to see if things were still happening. Anyway I found she is still texting a guy she used to work with. He says inappropriate things to her and trather than saying stop she just goes along with it. There were also messages between her and her toxic friend where she says im pottering about so cant chat but she is messaging this guy from work and her friend was like 'on ya' basically green lighting her behaviour.  I held this info close to myself but only for a few days. We had gone out for an impromptu date night which was her decision to do and it felt great to do something but the actual date wasn't great because as soon as we got there her anxiety kicked in and we had to leave. The day after I had to be open that I knew about the texts between her and her ex colleague. As soon as I mentioned it I was at fault  but she was careless with her secrets. She then range the in-laws and turned them against me making out I am jealous. She said to her step mother I will show the messages between us and sent her a hand selected list of screenshots between them to her and her step mum was like there is nothing to it, to which I responded well i will send you the screenshots i have, she went white and said 'Do that and watch what happens'. Anyway she has been away for the night camping with her toxic friend, someone who I hold some blame for encouraging this behaviour, its clear she wants my wife to be single but I have been in bits thinking all sorts. Her toxic friend still works at the hotel chain and has a weird adoration for the guys my wife has been texting. Now I don't believe anything physical has happened with this guy as I feel like she is leading him on because she is trying to get her job back there but I dont know. I have never been bothered if she texts other people regardless of gender but its the context of the texts I have an issue with. I mean if she saw the same sort of texts on my phone id be out the door quicker than it could open and the fact she is texting him whilst im not around, so clearly she is hiding something.

I want to sit down and talk to her but she just explodes in fits of rage and then yells at me to stop arguing which im not, there have been times where I get fed up and lose my PLEASE READ and tell her to piss off and walk away but it takes a lot to get me there. All i want from her is to sit down and see if she wants to rescue this marriage. I know I am important to her as she has told me many times before that she knows she difficult to live with and she is grateful but ever since her toxic friend has been heavily on the scene since last August our relationship has nose dived and I fear thgat whilst she seeks approval from her I will never get any answers or any sort of chance to talk and see what we can do.

Can i forgive? Yes is the answer to that but we would need have a serious talkj and I have even suggested councelling (Something I know she doesnt want because that means being honest and people seeing her flaws) I am harbouring her secrets for her frome friends and family, the only person who knwos about anything is her step mum but she has somehow got her on her side and made me to be the monster. I feel like im losing my mind. This holiday as well, she booked this a few days ago despite knowing financially I have been struggling because all the bills have gone up as well as the rent and this is something I have had to0 abnsorb but its starting to drastically affect my own finances where she doesn't pay anything towards our daily life but is always ordering things, buying weed and cigarettes and ordering coffee daily. I literally feel like a walking bank account walking on egg shells around her. If I touch her she shudders, she never tells me she loves me without me telling her first. I dont know I just feel like I am battling a lost battle.

Weirdest thing is I kno if do finally get tired of her crap and leave she will be devastated. All her previous relationships have been real PLEASE READ shows and (in her words) they all end up just walking away, something I havent done. Its strange as she always talks about our future plans of growing old etc but at the minute I feel like im her worst enemy. I do want to just get up and leave but I have a duty of care to my step daughters as I pretty much do everyhting for them like taking them to school picking them up from school (Something my wifer cant do as she feels like everybody is judging her) feeding them, getting them ready fro school (Whilst my wife is still in bed) and then doing all the household chores. I have joked in the past that i am more like her butler than her husband.

I dont know what to do. I really love this woman for some messed up reason and I know there is good in her as we have had some magical moments together. I do feel like whilst her toxic friend is on the scene I don't stand a chance as she really doesnt like me and the feeling is mutual. Her real mum has said to me time and time again I dont know how you put up with her and that i am the best thing thats ever happened to her and she would be an idiot for throwing it away. Her own daughter chooses to spend time with me than her lately but thats partly because she never does anything with her. The other day we went into the local city center and she went off to meet her friend and me and her daughter spent the hours exploring the city. I know if my wife was with us it would have only been for an hour and she would have wanted to go home. Its like she makes all the time for the wrong people whilst discarding the most important people but at the same time portraying herself as mother of the year. Its so confusing and the eggshells I walk on is insane.

My wife and I have come from very different backgrounds. I come from a very stable family and am very well educated and own my own successful business whereas she didnt have a great childhood and comes from a very broken family. She has always tried to better herself but it is all smok and mirrors. She 'wrote' a book and listed it on Amazon. Now I quoted 'wrote' because it was actually written by AI under direction. She has been showing off the Tarot cards she has beenm creating but in reality all the work for the cards has been done by me. She shows off all the nice holidays to the Carribean she has all of which I have paid for. Like I say im starting to feel more like a bank account than a husband and maybe because the money isnt as readily available she is like nah screw you.

I want her to seek help, i want to have the hard discussion but I dont think she will and I just dont know how to approach it. She will always get the side of her step mother because she feeds her select information to gain her support. Like I say I can forgive but things will have to change. I knwo some people on here will be just like 'What are you doing dude, ditch her' but I have much wider responsibilities I have to consider and i am not that cruel to do that. Any help will be really useful because I am totally lost right now.

Definitely read "Splitting" and also read up on BIFF communication.

You're fortunate that there are no kids involved, so just keep that in mind:  You can and will eventually extricate yourself from this situation...

A few suggestions:
- get a voice recorder, and keep it running 24/7.  even if you're in a two-party state, keep it running.  it's the only thing that will protect you from false claims re: DV, etc.
- if your w is prone to rages, violent behavior, or self harm, consider installing security cameras. again, it's the only way to protect yourself when/if a false victim narrative attempts to frame you for her injuries, etc.
- make sure anything valuable to you is already secure before you deliver the news.  remove any important papers, heirlooms, etc. to somewhere safe.  I put a couple of file boxes of things in my uncle's basement, including harddrive backups when I went through this.  I was concerned that my ex would smash the computer, etc.
- the recommendation to have your atty deliver the news is a good one.
- have contingency plans.  i.e., if you intend to cohabitate, have a backup plan in case that doesn't work out. 
- be ready to call 911 if your W threatens self harm or behaves in a way that's dangerous to others.  candidly, this may be the only way that her erratic behavior can be documented.  there's also a small chance that such intervention will actually help her in the long run.  too often, those of us in caretaker roles are reluctant to take this action and sacrifice ourselves before we put a partner in a position to face consequences.  my strongest advice is:  be ready to make that 911 call if there is a real threat or danger, and let your W face the consequences.

This is truly a huge topic, so don't hesitate to check in here anytime with more Qs, and let us know how you're doing.

My divorce decree states that the parties will "use OFW or similar, and communicate anything in regard to the kids via email or text."

In my experience, OFW was very good for tracking expenses, and the tone monitor was occasionally helpful.  It lasted about a year until my uBPDxw decided that OFW was a surveillance tool used by manipulative ex husbands to control their ex wives.  Her false victim mindset was on full display, but nonetheless, the language of the decree was soft on this point and the reality was that she simply didn't want to pay.  OFW has an annual subscription cost, and services like the tone monitor are an extra upcharge. 

So, OFW went away and we've defaulted to email and text.  I set a shared google calendar to track parenting time, holidays, extra curriculars, doctor appointments, etc. - which she refuses to use (no different than when we were married, surprise surprise).  And expense reconciliation is a manual process vs. the automatic tracking with OFW...

In my view, OFW is well worth it if everyone is on board. 

In my case, even if I offered to pay for both parties (not a great precedent, but...) I'd still have to deal with poor compliance / weak participation / passive avoidance - because everyone knows OFW is just another tool that abusive men use to control women! /sarcasm.

One way you might navigate this is to add it to stipulations now, and then incorporate it in your final decree with clear language that eliminates wiggle room.  e.g., "the parties agree to utilize OFW.  each party will be responsible for their individual costs to use OFW.  OFW will be used for all communications re: kids, schedule, school, extra curriculars, vacations, holidays, exceptions, expenses - and any other child related matters.  OFW will be used for expense tracking and reconciliation, and child-related calendar"

Good luck!