Therapeutic school conundrum--advice, anyone?

[inkling16]

OK, so our daughter's regular high school assigned her to a therapeutic school after going through the IEP process.  She's been there since late November. About 60 kids, either autistic or plagued with the same kind of school anxiety and executive function issues that she has. Very low academic pressure, group therapy once a week, individual therapy once a week, quiet rooms for calming down, etc. We knew it wasn't paradise, but it seemed to be going OK, though she complained periodically that the work was too easy and that there was no one there who she felt like being friends with. Attendance has been spotty--she was in the hospital for a week in December, she missed a week in January because of the flu, and there are days when we just can't get her out of bed for the bus at 7:15 am. But in general she seemed to be doing better than at regular school. We had a follow-up IEP meeting last week and all seemed to be well.

Then, on Monday evening, she downloaded to me in a major way how unhappy she is there.  The main issue is that she's a wisecracker, and some of her remarks are interpreted by the staff as being hostile or bullying. So they take her out in the hall and speak sternly to her about creating an unsafe emotional environment for the other kids (many of whom were bullied at their home school). So now she feels bullied--or kind of "reverse" bullied--because she can never say what's on her mind without fear of offending someone. I don't know exactly what she's been saying, or how often something triggers a response from the staff. It could happen every day, or it could have been just once and she's blowing it out of proportion the way they do. Either way, she seems to be in a situation where the steps that make it safe for everyone else are making her feel unsafe. She says, "I'm walking on eggshells all the time!"  (Welcome to my world, kiddo!) She's isolating when she gets home--just stays in her room and rarely seeks out her friends from around here.

So now what? Her mental state definitely makes her sardonic, bitter and occasionally hostile, but I don't think she's intrinsically mean or even unkind. And I think if she'd been addressing hostile remarks to specific students, someone would have mentioned something to us by now. She's making great progress with her outside therapy and overall I'm hopeful about her prognosis, but this school thing is a real puzzle. She wants us to let her do online school, but there's no way she'll succeed at that right now.

Thoughts, anyone?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

would probably be a good idea to have a meeting with her teachers to find out exactly what is going on before you make any decisions.  Get the whole picture.

[griz]

I agree, you should get the whole picture and not only find out what she is saying but also when.  My DD was quite the wise cracker in one of her classes especially.  Her teacher found this disrespectful and would find ways to punish her for it.  After enough complaining I insisted he call me and when he did I was able to get both sides of the story.  For DD this was her way of relieving her discomfort.  In this class she felt "less than".  It was an Art Class and there were kids who were clearly more talented and the teacher showed very little praise for her work. Although he meant well he would constantly push the kids to work harder by challenging their work.  This probably is good for most kids but what DD needed was to feel some success.  No matter what she did he would find something she could have done better.  Being a wise guy was DD's way of feeling some success.  I know that seems odd, but when she would be a wise guy the other kids would laugh and this would only serve to egg her on, she was being successful at something, even if it wasn't a positive thing.  Unfortunetly for us, the teacher was often very immature and would get into sparing matches with her and DD is quite quick witted. This only served to make him angrier and entertain the kids more.  I asked him to try to ease up on her.  Find something good in a piece she was working on and then maybe give her gentle guidance.  In my case he was not willing to do this.  Although DD had an IEP and the teacher was aware of her issues he decided that she was just a spoiled teenager who needed to be put in her place. Needless to say this never worked out.

Maybe your daughter uses her wise cracking is a way to cover her discomfort like my DD.  We all often use humor to cover how we feel.  Sort of like when people get the giggles at a wake.  You are so uncomfortable with your emotions that you actually seem to be reacting inappropriately.  I can understand why she might be isolating when she comes home.  Can you imagine spending the day at a place that is suppose to be helpful for you and you feel like you are failing there also. My DD is definitely sardonic, bitter and a bit hostile too and like your daughter not at anyone in particular but it is her overall demeanor.  Sometimes it gets on my last nerve but then I think I don't live in a world where I don't fit.

Griz

[sunshineplease]

I'll "third" the suggestion to get more info. I just made the mistake (again*sigh) of taking one of my ud17's comments at face value, only to find she'd take the nuggets of two truths and blown them up to "split" her new academic coordinator and me. He and I touched base today and figured out what she'd done, and now he and I know to check in when we hear unlikely stories (and he knows to check in with her T, too).

I also agree with griz that the "challenge them" motivational model that so many therapeutic schools seem to feel works for kids with ODD or other issues can backfire with pwBPD. These kids ARE doing the best they can, and it's the school's job to help them do better.

[inkling16]

Maybe your daughter uses her wise cracking is a way to cover her discomfort like my DD. 

Oh, yes, she absolutely does! And to get attention and to compensate and all the rest of it. Thing is, it's often one of the things people like about her, when they like her. Thank goodness her outside therapist is one of them!

(DD can be a very funny wisecracker. I remember the morning we were in the ER waiting for her first ever psych placement, after being there all night. I had gone to the hospital cafeteria and brought back some provisions. I had gotten French toast, and it came with a little tub of "breakfast syrup." She said, "Made from 100 percent pure breakfast!" I though that was pretty good for having been suicidal in the ER all night.)

Another complication is that she doesn't get on with the therapist that the school has assigned to her. I can see her point--the lady does seem to be a bit of a plodder, and I find myself getting impatient with her when we talk, though I can hide it better than my dd can. It's ironic that I worry about the staff of a therapeutic school finding me "difficult," but I feel like that's what they'll think if I ask for a change of therapist.

I did talk to the therapist about this, and her first impulse was to talk to the teachers and find out what was really happening. I feel like it's their business to establish the reality rather than mine, since I'm in no position to judge between what they say and what she says. I felt I needed to let them know how she says she's feeling about things, though, since she didn't seem to be telling them herself.

[Googie]

Hi Inkling,

I can promise you that there is a simple solution to this issue.  Most therapeutic schools are more than willing to listen to your concerns and make the changes that will support a positive learning experience.  I don't believe a word that comes out of my children's mouths because I have been made to look like a fool when I have taken what they say at face value, especially my dd15.  Once all the facts come out at the meeting, you can request to put a "safety plan" in place for your daughter so that when these issue arise again (and they will), there will be no question as to what the staff is to do to avoid her escalating.  Open communication with the school's special ed team is soo important on so many levels.  I have come to understand that when dealing with a difficult request or circumstance, it's not what you say, it's HOW you say it.  The special ed team at my dd's HS was amazing and I constantly let them know how much I appreciated everything they did for, not only MY dd, but all the kids that they are responsible for.  You have to remember that we are the minority, meaning, most parents of special ed kids are unable or just plain unwilling to advocate for their child.  When I expressed my appreciation and brought in doughnuts or cookies, they really got a boost.  My intentions are not to get preferential treatment, but that is exactly what happens.

My dd is always unhappy about something.  Most of the time it is nothing to be concerned about, but I still process it with her.


And about the way your daughter speaks... .    I am one of the most sarcastic people you could ever meet.  It is my way of coping with issues that are unpleasant.  I don't target anyone, but when my kids do it they sometimes come off as mean and hurtful.  This is another example of its not what you say but how you say it.  Has your dd been exposed to DBT?

Googie

[Googie]

www.psychosocial.com/IJPR_15/DBT_Evaluation_DeVylder.html

The site above is like a crash course in DBT.  It explains what it is intended to accomplish and some interesting info on studies that have been done about the long term success of this type of therapy.

Just thought someone might be interested.

G

[inkling16]

Has your dd been exposed to DBT?

Googie

Oh, yes. She spent the summer in a RTC where DBT was a way of life, and after she got out, we found her a DBT therapist to do both individual and group therapy. Both she and her therapist seem happy with how that's going. I think part of her issue is that getting along with the kids at this school isn't a priority for her. She doesn't seem to like them or respect their intellectual abilities. If she did, she could either control her tongue or establish the kind of rapport with them where they were willing to give as good as they got. (Though I don't get the impression that she's slinging these remarks at anyone in particular.)

I'm willing to turn myself inside out to get along with these folks and get the best in place for my kid, but if they intrinsically don't understand where she's coming from or how to make her feel comfortable, I'm not sure where this will end up. She's so all over the place with her moods that I think they're going to be the ones having to do the accommodating at least for the time being.

[Googie]

We had a de-escalation plan that would be followed if my dd was showing signs of becoming agitated, but the problem of being mainstreamed is that is was up to her to inform her teacher that she needed to go to the special ed trailer because she was embarrassed to do so in front of the kids in her class.  And there was always the issue of her using that privilege to get out of doing work that she did not want to do, or get of being held responsible for the classroom assignments.

I guess your daughter is stuck i n a place where her peers are identified in an entirely different capacity which probably makes her feel as though she's all alone and there's no one that seems interesting enough for her to befriend.  Thats the downfall of self contained schools.  It sounds like you know what you are doing, but what can you really do about this particular issue except to just continue to encourage her to do her best with hat she has to work with.

Would you ever consider switching schools later on down the line?

G

[inkling16]

Would you ever consider switching schools later on down the line?

There was actually one school our h.s. referred us to that would have been our first choice hands down, but they didn't have space. I spoke to the admissions director yesterday and they expect to have space in June (which was the case when we originally contacted them in November) so I'm supposed to circle back at the beginning of April to set up an interview if we're still interested in switching. I have not seen this school in action, but it has a rep for being good for smart kids, and its pedigree is such that I suspect the teachers and clinical staff are probably pretty smart, too. Not that the ones at the current school are stupid, but they're clearly not used to working with kids who object to unsophisticated teaching.

DD is going to be a senior next year and will turn 18 in November, so we don't have a lot of time either way. She will not sit still for high school a moment longer than she has to, unless she sees some intrinsic advantage to whatever school she's at (friends, appealing activities, etc.). If we have to go the GED route, we will, but I'd rather not for a lot of reasons.

[Googie]

I hear you on your dd sticking it out to get an actual diploma.  Hopefully she will want to go to college where she can have 100% of creating her schedule and redefining her goals to reflect who she really is.  This age is so hard for kids that do have have the extra baggage that our kids have.  I can't imagine the difficulties that our own kids have to put up with.

Good luck!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders