DD15 in New RTC - Continuation

[raytamtay3]

Had a very bad visit with DD yesterday. I could tell from the beginning she was in a bad mood. I brought us both lunch and some of the things she had asked for. Things went ok for the first hour of the visit but than quickly spiraled down. I think it began when she told me flat out that she will never change. That I need to accept that fact. That she is a normal teenager who does normal teenage things. That she cannot and will not change, so I can expect for her to be the same way she was when she comes home. And that if I keep sending her to RTCs until she is 18, or that's the plan, to tell her know because she can promise me I will never ever see her again. That all she has to do is make one phone call and someone will come and pick her up and she will leave the state never to be seen or head from again. Told me everything is my fault. Read me an assignment her therapist asked her to complete explaining the events that led up to her being in RTC. She stated in it that it all started after the divorce. How she was made to be her father's therapist and to act as her little brother's mother. That things got bad with her father's visits and he gave me full custody and she was ripped away from all of her friends and her school and made to live in NJ with me. How she did everything she could to avoid being home by taking off for days at a time. That she constantly got suspended, etc. So blaming everything on me and my decision to leave an abusive marriage basically. You'd think by now I'd have developed and thick skin, but when I got to my car I cried. :'(  I know it's the disorder. I know I shouldn't take it personally. I know she was mirrowing. But damn... .

Since being at this new RTC she's been restrained 4 times. And we are only in week 3. She just refused to follow the rules. So she is on lodge restriction. She assaulted to staff members so far.

The fact that I'm driving over an hour and a half on the weekends to see her only to be treated this way is really making me not want to go for visits for a while. Is that the wrong things to do?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

Ray

I know it is hard but try not to take what she says personally. It is the disorder talking and she is not going to take responsibility for her actions. I think with her starting a new RTC she is going to test the limits and that is understandable. If she can't be nice during your visits then I think I would not visit for a while. There is nothing wrong with that... .you need time too.

[Panda39]

raytamtay3

When I met with my principal at continuation school (alternative H.S.) for the first time back when I was a wild child.  She asked me why I was there and I spent 15 minutes blaming everyone and everything she looked me in the eye and said "and you didn't have anything to do with it?"

I say the same to you... .and she didn't have anything to do with her situation?  We all know I did back in the day and your daughter does today.

Don't beat yourself up no one is perfect... .let go of the guilt it's not yours to bare these issues are your daughter's.

Wishing you well 

[Kate4queen]

Ray, my son came to visit us at home with a list of all the things we had done to ruin his life and force him out of his home. The more I listened, the more upset me and my DH started to feel because it was like listening to such a distorted web of lies that we didn't even know what to say. And because my son is an expert manipulator, he knew every single button to push to make us feel guilty.

Eventually, I just very calmly stood up, found his car keys and asked him to leave. I just couldn't stand listening to him anymore.

I know its the BPD talking, but we are also people who have feelings and deserve not to be made to feel like that.

So yeah, I think you have a perfect right not to chose to go and see her for a while.

[Elbry]

Sorry Ray, I know how hard that can be.  My DD did just a little bit of that at a team meeting at the hospital a few weeks ago.  She has chores to do at home, dishes ever other day and vacuuming every other day.  In the meeting, she complained and made it sound it sound like I enslaved her to clean all the time like she was Cinderellla or something.  And sometimes she keeps an eye on her nephew downstairs if I'm upstairs cleaning, or doing laundry or whatever, but no it's "I watch him every day, all day, and he drives me nuts".  She made it sound like she has it SO bad at home, I felt awful.

I don't think you are wrong to not go for visits for awhile.  Whether it is the disorder or not, you are not her verbal punching bag, you are her mother and you deserve some respect.   

[raytamtay3]

Thanks everyone. You understanding in this matter is greatly appreciated and makes me feel less alone.

I got yet another call last night that DD had to be restrained. I think we are up to 5 times in the three weeks she's been there now. Unbelievable. She just does not want to follow direction. Is this every going to get better? How much longer is she going to carry on like this knowing she will get nothing out of it? They have weekly trips and she has yet made status to go yet complains how bored she is. Same as the last place. No progress has been made whatsoever in almost a year beginning with Juvi, shelter and two RTCs. None. Zero. Yet she tells me if/when she comes home nothing is going to change then either. What is one to do?

[raytamtay3]

Been getting calls every night from the RTC saying DD needed to be restrained. Last night it was because some other girl was being restrained, so DD jumped on top of the staff member who was restrainig the other girl thereby getting herself restrained. She hasn't called me and I haven't called her since last Saturdays' visit.

[.cup.car]

Might have said this in a previous thread, but I've always been wary of these RTC programs after having been through one myself.

You're throwing misunderstood, mentally unstable, sexually frustrated TEENS in a confined space and saying "don't hit each other or turn the place into a giant orgy." Yes that's a good idea cause mentally unstable and emotionally distressed teens follow rules and never act out around other people their age to show off. OK.

I walked out of there with two chick's phone numbers and dealing with one of them landed me on this site so that should give you an idea of how useful these programs are to the people going through them.

What's probably happening is that your daughter has blabbed her version of events to her peers at the RTC and they've all bought into the stories (I was one of them circa 2010) and told her "oh my god your parents are horrible, you're just a normal teenager!"

Now in your OP you've written:

Things went ok for the first hour of the visit but than quickly spiraled down. I think it began when she told me flat out that she will never change. That I need to accept that fact. That she is a normal teenager who does normal teenage things. That she cannot and will not change, so I can expect for her to be the same way she was when she comes home.

What's nutty is that my ex sent an email to her folks (that was forwarded to me to proofread) which was basically three pages of exactly that. I know that feel bro.

[raytamtay3]

Might have said this in a previous thread, but I've always been wary of these RTC programs after having been through one myself.

You're throwing misunderstood, mentally unstable, sexually frustrated TEENS in a confined space and saying "don't hit each other or turn the place into a giant orgy." Yes that's a good idea cause mentally unstable and emotionally distressed teens follow rules and never act out around other people their age to show off. OK.

I walked out of there with two chick's phone numbers and dealing with one of them landed me on this site so that should give you an idea of how useful these programs are to the people going through them.

What's probably happening is that your daughter has blabbed her version of events to her peers at the RTC and they've all bought into the stories (I was one of them circa 2010) and told her "oh my god your parents are horrible, you're just a normal teenager!"

Now in your OP you've written:

Things went ok for the first hour of the visit but than quickly spiraled down. I think it began when she told me flat out that she will never change. That I need to accept that fact. That she is a normal teenager who does normal teenage things. That she cannot and will not change, so I can expect for her to be the same way she was when she comes home.

What's nutty is that my ex sent an email to her folks (that was forwarded to me to proofread) which was basically three pages of exactly that. I know that feel bro.

What others options do I have? When she was home, she'd take off for days on end, break up the house, curse, hit her little brother, do drugs, alledgedly got raped while taking off fo a few nights, pretty sure she was getting involved in prostitution. This is the only way I can remotely try and keep her safe imo.

[Rapt Reader]

What others options do I have? When she was home, she'd take off for days on end, break up the house, curse, hit her little brother, do drugs, alledgedly got raped while taking off fo a few nights, pretty sure she was getting involved in prostitution. This is the only way I can remotely try and keep her safe imo.

I, also, think there aren't too many other options that would be available to you, raytamtay3... .You have a team of Professionals working with her (again) in a concentrated, dedicated manner, and all she needs to do now is cooperate. While waiting for that to happen, at least she is safe and where the help is if she chooses to take it. And she isn't there to torture your family in person. Hang in there, kiddo 

[Verbena]

You did the right thing in putting your daughter in a RTC and in moving her to this second one that is more strict/secure.    She gave you no other choice.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Being Mindful]

Ray, You did the right thing for her and the rest of the family too.

[lever.]

Absolutely no other option available to you raytam.

You have done the best thing for her and for the rest of the family.

Her behavior in the RTC confirms this. It must be so difficult to have these constant calls about her being restrained but it shows that she would be a danger to herself were she not in the RTC at the present time.   

You have a lot of stress in your life-look after yourself.

[SeaSprite]

You are doing the right thing... .if there is any such thing as "the right thing" in the context of the issues your d is having. You are doing everything you can to keep her safe.

No, you don't have to go visit her.

One option is to tell her something like "I love you. I'm sad that you seem to hate me, and it sounds like my visits are only causing you pain. I'll try again in (a week/month/six weeks/3 months - whatever time frame seems reasonable). You will always be my daughter, and I will always love you."

Echoing the other members, the blaming is not unusual, and it's not about you. My younger d does it. Both my sds are doing it to their parents right now. I can't even tell what they want from my h and his ex, they seem to want them to both get into therapy and become perfect people?

It looks like they are having these huge, out of control emotions and just cannot cope with being responsible for them, so it has to be someone else's fault, and whose fault would that be? Parents.

Take care of yourself... .you are doing your best for your d in an impossible situation.

[mama72]

You are doing the right thing, ray. You are a good mama!

[nzmum]

  what they said!   

[raytamtay3]

I was away on a cruise from Oct. 24 - 27.  I informed the RTC of this and told them should anything occur involving DD, to contact her father.  When I returned there were no incidences.  That was progress considering up until that point I had been receiving calls daily about her being restrained.  Yesterday she called me and right of the bat I could tell she was deregulated.  She started cursing over the fact that we asked for a medication change because we noticed that the Concerta appeared to make her more angry and have angry outburst. We had her on Tenex a couple of years ago and it seemed to help with that. So they faxed me the paperwork to complete and I faxed it back. She said how we are ___ing with her and that she is refusing to take medication all together. I told her that she needed to stop cursing or I would end the call.  She said she was a big girl and therefore could curse. I told her no she is not allowed to curse period. Then she switched to cursing over the fact that I will not sign her out on an ALP (Against Lodge Policy) weekend with her father that as it was explained to me from the therapist, it is notated and communicated to the entire treatment plan that parents are not being compliant with the program and that after so many, they contact probation, Dyfus or whatever the case warrants to have the child removed from the care of the parents alltogether.  She said that's only if you do it countless times. I told her I would not be doing it and that because I have custody of her, I cannot even give her father permission to do it and that I wouldn't anyway because it would fall on me.  Before I could get out that also how are we modeling good choices if we take her out ALP? I will not do. She started cursing up a storm so I hung up.

On a good note, I spoke to the therapist to see how things were going, and she said DD is making little strides which is good. And I thought for sure she'd have a meltdown last night and I'd receive a call. But I didn't. That's huge! maybe she's finally learning coping skills when she's told "no".

[nzmum]

DD is making little strides which is good. And I thought for sure she'd have a meltdown last night and I'd receive a call. But I didn't. That's huge! maybe she's finally learning coping skills when she's told "no".

Sounding a little more positive - in spite of the phone call. Well done for ending the call by the way. Wish I had your strength.    They always give us parents the worst side remember! Hope the strides continue on a positive note. 

[jellibeans]

Ray

I hope things are turing around for your dd... .I just want you to keep in mind that we are running a marathon not a sprint... .we are here for the long haul... .pace yourself.

[raytamtay3]

Hello everyone. Sorry I've been MIA.  Kind of a brief update on DD. She is still at the current RTC.  She was permitted two overnight passes for the holiday; Xmas Eve with me and Xmas with her father.  Long story short, she took off for 4 days and was considerd Awal. She called me to come get her only after running out of money but the plan was to go to Florida with the random couple she met along her Travels. So no real progress has been made. She tells me she cannot help it; has no control over what she does. The only good thing about her being in this RTC right now is that fact she cannot run so therefore she is safe.  When she is released, I don't know what's going to happen.

[Dibdob59]

Hi Raytamtay

So good to hear from you, I had been wondering how things were with you and your DD

How are you doing through all of this?

Dibdob

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

Hi Raytamtay

So good to hear from you, I had been wondering how things were with you and your DD

How are you doing through all of this?

Dibdob

Hi! Honestly I just feel in limbo.

[raytamtay3]

I wanted to add, that up until the Xmas incident, DD was doing very well at the RTC (a solid one month as opposed to my getting calls every day about her being restrained). But she had a goal in mind - to get to go home for Xmas. So she CAN do it when she puts her mind to it. She even made youth of the week. Since Xmas I've gotten two calls she's been restrained and one about smoking pot in her room. The school they attend in on site, but the bus in other students.

[Rapt Reader]

Is there some sort of time-frame for how long she will be there, raytamtay3?

Is it dependent upon her age, Insurance timetable, how well she is doing, etc.?

You're right; with the right motivation (however sketchy it might sound to an outsider!) she can rein in her negative behaviors.

Hopefully the RTC can help her figure out how to motivate herself to do the right thing for sake of her own well-being. Sometimes age brings wisdom and it's a matter of waiting it out... .

Hang in there, raytamtay3 

I've been in limbo before, with my son and his situation, and it's a pretty numbing experience, but still no fun

[rationalmind]

So challenging for us with teens--the BPD issues plus the developmental teenage issues makes for a very bad situation.  One can only hope these are the worst years and things might improve albeit it if only in a tiny way.  My daughter too says that she is just a normal teenager--I think they need to feel that they aren't "crazy" and denying the illness (at least outwardly) allows some saving face.

[lever.]

Its good to hear from you Raytamtay-I had wondered how things were going. Its good that you have found a better RTC but I'm sorry that your DD is still behaving so impulsively.

I agree that it is partly BPD and partly adolescence. At least the "adolescence" bit is definitely going to pass.

My DD was definitely much more impulsive when she was younger and things improved from her mid 20s.

Features of BPD are still there but she sometimes thinks more now before she acts.

Wishing you the best.

[jellibeans]

Ray

I am sorry you are still struggling with your dd. I do think the process takes time and if your dd feels there is anyway to come home or flee the program she will. I am actively looking for a place for my dd right now. Her drug and alcohol addiction has gotten worse and she has finally asked for help.

Can you tell be what RTC your dd is at now? How did you pick it?

[pessim-optimist]

Hello Ray,

it's good to hear from you again.

She tells me she cannot help it; has no control over what she does.

But she had a goal in mind - to get to go home for Xmas. So she CAN do it when she puts her mind to it. She even made youth of the week. Since Xmas I've gotten two calls she's been restrained and one about smoking pot in her room.

I would say that this is an important discovery. She can control her behaviors when she is determined. Yes, it is hard work, but in her case it is a matter of motivation, not a question of ability.

In the long run, it is really up to her if she will choose to cooperate and choose to work hard to get better. You are providing her with an opportunity... .

[raytamtay3]

Ray

I am sorry you are still struggling with your dd. I do think the process takes time and if your dd feels there is anyway to come home or flee the program she will. I am actively looking for a place for my dd right now. Her drug and alcohol addiction has gotten worse and she has finally asked for help.

Can you tell be what RTC your dd is at now? How did you pick it?

Medicaid is paying for it. It's called Carrier Clinic - East Mountain Youth Lodge  www.carrierclinic.org/

It was on the approved listing from our district case manager

[raytamtay3]

Is there some sort of time-frame for how long she will be there, raytamtay3?

Is it dependent upon her age, Insurance timetable, how well she is doing, etc.?

You're right; with the right motivation (however sketchy it might sound to an outsider!) she can rein in her negative behaviors.

Hopefully the RTC can help her figure out how to motivate herself to do the right thing for sake of her own well-being. Sometimes age brings wisdom and it's a matter of waiting it out... .

Hang in there, raytamtay3 

I've been in limbo before, with my son and his situation, and it's a pretty numbing experience, but still no fun

It's a 9 to 12 month program.

[raytamtay3]

As you may recall, my DD is chamelon and takes on the personality of those she is with. She says she is more african american then her friends. Lol. She's been talking to a lot of youth that are in gangs. The bloods I believe it is.  Well one of her friends from the last RTC was just shot and killed over the weekend and DD just found out and called me hysterically crying this morning.

I'm so worried about when she gets out. She thinks she is untouchable and still puts herself in dangerous situations!  They way she was carrying on leads me to believe the person who was killed was probably who she was with when she took off... .I just have this feeling... .

[heronbird]

One thing I have learnt is, when a person with BPD says anything, its mostly empty words.

Gosh, its so hard believe me I know, I have to bite my lip. I am a person that if I say something then I will do it, so I expect people to be the same.

I remember dd saying she was going over to Florida with a bf of hers. If I had listened to her, I may have had a breakdown. She never went. It just depends on how they feel.

Your daughter saying that she will never change means nothing. Its best to just hear her out.

They just want to be heard don't they.

[MammaMia]

raytamtay

I agree that driving an hour and a half every weekend only to be abused verbally should stop.  

You might consider keeping the lines of communication open by phone, if she is allowed to make calls.  This would give her access to you, but provides control over whether or not you speak to her.  Make it perfectly clear that if she does not comply with your rules about what is acceptable phone behavior, you will hang up on her or refuse her calls.

This provides an element of protection for you and saves you time, money, and effort that is not appreciated.

[heronbird]

raytamtay

That's so so worrying isn't it. I have had similar experience with my dd.

It is so scary but there isn't much we can do is there. We live like this all the time, loving someone with BPD.

You could be wrong about the person, she may not have been close to the person. This has happened to my dd twice, she was also very distressed. I would have thought she was so close to the person who died, she wasn't. She is just highly sensitive to certain things.

My dd is stable at the moment, she admits she put herself in massive danger many times in the past. Its horrible to think. She also thinks its amazing she is still alive. They mostly make it, I don't know how she has, but she has.

Don't forget, things change, and they change so quickly. One minute we worry about one thing, the next we realise things have settled down.

I read, we are like tennis players, always have to be ready for the ball, we never know where its going to land but we have to be ready with the bat in the right place. I think it was written better than that but I cant remember, but I certainly relate to that.

[rationalmind]

my DD17 seems to also take on undesirable identities--her latest boyfriend is literally a drug dealing thug who is now in jail for possession of drugs and weapons. She doesn't see anything wrong with this lifestyle or with shooting up. So sad.  I wish she would take on some of the more positive roles, but unfortunately I think she deep down inside feels so negative about herself that it has been an upward struggle.

[heronbird]

Hi rationalmind,

My daughter has changed her name about 5 times. Now she has actually changed it legally.

She married her druggie bum and had a baby with him. Thing is, he turned his life around so that he could have the baby. Stopped drugs, kicked dd out and kept her flat on. Now he moved with the baby and lives 4 hour drive away. He hates us for no good reason. We nearly killed ourselves trying to bend over backwards not to upset him for a year. We were being blackmailed really, we worried if we upset him he would move and we would never see our first grandchild again.

Well he did it anyway. So we haven't seen him for 6 months now. We are trying to fight it in court, not for us, we don't have any rights, but we support our dd.

So, when they make big mistakes, we end up picking up the pieces weather we think we wont or not. I used to say I would never get involved, but its not that easy, its not black and white.

My dd told me she only went with him because her self esteem was so low, who else would have her, that's what she says.

Now she is doing DBT and one of the things they are really trying to work on is the self esteem issue, and how to choose good friends. Its a big thing with BPD.

Your dd is only 17, that's so sad isn't it, my dd is now 20 and seems to have matured since 17. So lets hope yours does too.