Rough day with BPD fiancé. Started out great... As usual.

[Anomaly]

I've been reading through a lot of staying posts and hadnt really had time to post, without BPD fiancé looking over my shoulder, other than my 'new person' post. Today was honestly just like any other "normal" day in my life of living with and loving someone with BPD. I still find as much as I read i cannot wrap my mind around this being normalcy... . But I'll break it down:

Got up this morning to go to work. BP is out of a job, again. he tells me that this is how plant work is and part of me gets offended that he thinks I'm naive enough to not see that there are certain common factors that always lead up to him being "laid off" or a job just "ending". He was supposed to go put in applications today and I have learned that if i don't keep reminding him of something, basically to the point of him getting irritated, some other distraction will surface and it won't get done. I hounded him enough today to go to a few places (so he told me. But I've seen in conversations with friends where he's said he's not in any big rush to find employment)

He brought me lunch, and flowers. Was in a great mood and very lovey, with only a couple of issues throughout my work day, such as me having to hurry him off the phone because I was very busy at work. At which point he keeps me on the phone even longer needing reassurance that nothing strange is going on, that I'm not in a bad mood, that I'm actually, surprisingly enough to him, really freaking busy. I've come to learn that if he calls my cell and I'm on my work phone, not answering my cell is not an option. I must answer my cellphone to where he can hear that i am talking, business, on my work phone. In addition to this, i LOATHE our crappy cellphone service because he's noticed that if you're on your cellphone, an iMessage sent to you turns green instead of blue. With our crappy service, this happens frequently for NO apparent reason even when NOT on the phone. that doesn't matter as many times as i point it out, it's inevitable that I'm going to be accused of talking on my cellphone and ignoring his texts when in fact neither has happened. Nothing i say convinces him and I've found that evidence of such (call logs, whatever) only actually piss him off further because his accusations are proven invalid.

Great mood lasted throughout the day until he picked me up from work and we picked my 3 year old up from school. Then the bottom fell out. I had to speak with the director of the daycare for a few minutes while he and my (happy) son, walked out to the parking lot. 5 Minutes later i walk out and see him through the glass door throwing his arms up like "wth took so long" and I know the mood has changed. we start walking towards the vehicle and my son comes towards me and he abruptly corrects him and tells him to go straight to the car door. I open it and start to put him in his carseat and inquire as to what happened. He tells me that he told My son as they were walking down the hall to "come on" and my son responded saying he wanted to stay with me. BP told him "no" that I was talking and to follow him. He then tells me that my son (who has never. NEVER. Said this before) said to him "no, i don't have to". This makes me look at him incredulously because my son does not say that. And because I've always noticed this childlike way BP exhibits almost jealousy (of his relationship with me) towards my son. It blows my mind because he's a parent as well and i know he loves my kid like his own and that my son loves him back. so the look i gave him was enough to set him off asking me if I'm accusing him of lying (which automatically makes me think he is). I explained that no, I've just never heard my child say that. so he proceeds to tell me (getting louder and louder) i need to get a handle on my son's "behavior" and that he's not "putting up with this hit anymore" and is "tired of it" basically accuses my child of being some master manipulator at setting BP up to get in trouble with me, and get his way.

Ok, my kid is your regular awesome 3 year old boy. He's very intelligent and intuitive and sensitive as well. All kids are somewhat manipulative with parents playing 2 sides against each other but BP seriously makes him out to be a mastermind.

I look in the back seat and my child that was happy and bouncy not 10 minutes before, just looks completely dejected. Which TURNS MY STOMACH.

BP had asked yesterday if we wanted to go to a restaurant and watch a 2 hour sporting event for dinner tonight. I told him yesterday lets see. 2 hours at a restaurant is a lot for any toddler anyway but the sporting event isn't one that my son and I really find captivating enough for 2 hours of it at a restaurant at a table. we get home today and i tell him I'm not sure i want to go but that if he wants to its fine with me, no big deal. At which point he says he doesn't care as long as he gets to watch it bc it's some kind of big deal, so he says he can watch it at home. Everything is fine. Except I guess he's just still not done being pissed at my kid. BP finds some noise machine and my curious kid instantly wants it. He's still learning rules and manners and he tried to snatch it out of BP's hand (it honestly doesn't make it any easier for me to teach him these things when BP's own behavior often shows him opposite. He always snatches things out of my sons hands and refuses to believe my way of raising my son as a PERSON and that he deserves the same respect as any person, is me "treating him like an adult" and that he doesn't deserve the same amount of respect because he's a child)

So I tell my son "do not snatch things out of people's hand's son, you have to ask... . " I look down for 2 seconds and hear him whine, and look up and he's laying on the bed in front of me where he had flopped down and BP's hand is around his ankle because apparently my son had flopped down and kicked him. The ONLY thing that was PERMITTED to escape my mouth was "*BP name* don't do that." Not in a loud or mean tone at all. I don't even get to move on to disciplining my child before BP is freaking out that I'm blaming him and that I don't tell my son anything and he's sick of it, going on and on sounding like a ___ing sibling instead of parent.

From there it turned into rage and more ___g and flipping out and i said to him you need to go watch the game by yourself I've told you you aren't going to act this way in front of *son*. BP throws tantrum, says fine, grabs my keys. I said I'm sorry but you need to take your vehicle (mine has carseat practically permanently installed). This enrages him further because he knows that taking my vehicle with car seat keeps myself and son from leaving the house if I want to. Which makes him decide not to leave. And decide to stay, and tantrum and slam doors. Until he's had enough time to think and blame me and say that he put gas in my vehicle today so he's driving it. I had him a $20 and his keys. He then rages that his car is messed up and clanking and he told me about the sound 2 months ago (last week) but i never listen. And that his AC doesn't work (never told me this and i don't think it's true). He finally calms down enough to stop tantruming and comes in my room where My son and I are sitting and starts complaining that the only TV he can get the game on is ours but that I let a 3 year old "monopolize everything in our lives" so he can't. I ask him what channel the game is on and tell him that my son will watch his show on my iPad. Well this Doesn't appease him either and then it's that he'll have to listen to whining the whole time. Until he sees that son is perfectly happy on the iPad. Then it's that I TOLD HIM YESTERDAY THAT WE WOULD GO AND IM SUDDENLY changing my mind... . Never mind the fact that he just changed his 3 times in less than 15 minutes. i tried to calmly explain that I am taking every avenue I can to make him happy right now and that he needs to just decide what HE wants. That I do not have a problem with him going watch the game without us, he interjects that the point was to BRING US. I tell him that we will go with him and stop this fight, he decides that's not what he wants because (again to blame) my son won't be able to sit for 2 hours. I tell him he can watch at home? No that won't make him happy either. So the way i see that? Obviously all you want right now is to have a tantrum.

It constantly gives me What the heck moments when my son exhibits more maturity in handling emotions, situations, than my fiancé. But also is REALLY starting to make me feel like a SH*TTY parent that I'm seeing my son to copy (out of sheer adoration) behaviors of BP. Thinking they're right bc that's his hero. he's begun fighting at school which is a direct result of being around BP's older children every other weekend that all have obvious signs of anger/emotional problems from being raised by BP and his (god knows what, just psycho) ex wife. I feel like such a bad mom that all of these things are "rubbing off" on my kid and affecting the way he reacts.

I have told BP numerous times "I love you, I'm in this with you and I'm not going to bail on you, we're going to get you help and I'll be by you every step of the way, the ONLY THING that will make me leave you besides you cheating on me or hitting me or my child, is YOUR behavior affecting him negatively" and I mean it. He has taken steps to avoid full out rages in front of son after me grinding the above into his head, but he still has his I don't care moments and still does things a 3 year old or any kid shouldn't see an adult role model doing.

There's much more to say but will have to later. I'm just at a loss right now. He's gone for the past 2 hours and will be back soon, and inevitably in an awesome mood. While I'm left depressed over the whole thing.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MaybeSo]

Honestly,

I think you have to really ask yourself about exposing your young child to this. It will affect him. It has already.

I never tried to live with my EX and my daughter at the same time.

The closest I got was when D21 came to spend summer break with us from University. In about 2 weeks, he went to the dark side. My daughter was gone that weekend to a concert; I did not have her come back. I diverted her to her fathers house, and w/n 3 weeks I had moved out and found my own place. That was 3 summers ago; I never moved back in with him. I do see him sometimes, but I won't live with him.

You create a unsafe environment (emotionally) around my kid and it's game-over.

She was a college student; fully grown. Could handle herself with him as needed, I'm sure. But it's just not acceptable.

Your little boys brain is developing right now... . critical pathways and brain growth are happening right now.

It's your job to keep him safe so he can grow up healthy and normal.

Is there a reason why you HAVE to live with this man? You are the one working right now, can you get by on your own? the less exposure to this the better.

I know your boy feels attached to him; think long and hard about cultivating your Childs attachment  to a very unstable, unpredictable love object... . one that makes him feel super good and then just as suddenly scorns him and breaks his heart.

Then we wonder why people grow up and choose confusing, hurtful partnerships.

I wish I had something more cheerful to say.

Lots to think about.

[Grey Kitty]

Hello and 

When I hear about how your BPD fiancé interacts with your son, I'm not liking it either.

At a minimum, I would suggest that you work on enforcing better boundaries to better protect your son from this sort of behavior immediately when it starts.

It would probably be disruptive, as you cannot readily force him to leave when he is dysregulated--it is much easier and safer for you to leave yourself (and take your son with you)... . and that is definitely difficult. But better than teaching your son that behaving this way is acceptable, or that letting somebody treat you this way is acceptable, and that is what your actions are teaching him on a day like this.

 GK

[SweetCharlotte]

I can sympathize because I'm in love with an uBPDh and he is often not nice to my kids.

However, your son is at a very young and tender age. He cannot constantly modify his behavior to suit the BPD's excessive, shifting needs. You are not yet married to the BPD, and he is unemployed.

So that sounds like three strikes against him. Put you and your son first.

[Anomaly]

I guess it's hard to make people understand a situation without being in it bc even if they're in very similar situations, each is also different.

In my experience, the BP behavior (that made me realize something was wrong) didn't start until 5 months into the relationship. Looking back on BP's life experiences and applying what i now know, the behavior has been there consistently from late teenage years/early adulthood. I could say that this was the "honeymoon phase" or something like it that he didn't want to show his worst at the beginning? but that wasn't the case. He didn't show his worst because he is an alcoholic and when we met, had been abusing/using alcohol for years, in my opinion, to calm his feelings, anxiety, worry, stress and to not deal with life. Thing is, when he met me he instantly knew that he didn't want to be drunk around me or for me to see what he thought were his "true colors", aka being drunk. We moved in together pretty fast, not because he was pushing it but because of the situations we were both in moneywise, etc. I was very hesitant to bring him into my son's life (he was 1 at the time) and took all precautions as to not have my son's life disrupted in any way shape or form. He never drank or was drunk around my child in those first 5 months and was monitoring and having me monitor his alcohol intake (at the time we worked in the same bar while i was finishing school and he was a musician and i was the bartender). We both realized that it needed to go further than that and he decided to commit to sobriety in order to have a life together.

I don't like to think that i gave him an ultimatum necessarily, but i did tell him that i would not be with an active alcoholic and could not raise my son with one in his life.

Hes been sober almost a year now. No falling off the wagon, no threats to go drink, none of it. He firmly believes that alcohol ruined a lot of things in his life and has no place in it.

Many stressful things happened at once with us both working, and purchasing a home. I had seen a bit of the controlling behavior before but let it slide as he promised he would get better and he just needed time. I am not someone to be controlled, I was in an abusive relationship at a young age and learned a lot of lessons, and a lot about myself as a person, from it. -- Once we moved into our new home i actually witnessed the BP behavior.

We have had many conversations about change and some things he's resistant to and others he isn't. But we agree on many that i consider important: His disease was not alcoholism, it was/is BPD but he abused alcohol to self-medicate, he does not like or want the feelings he has and wants to get help and get better, he loves my son like his own and i firmly believe that is true.

I do see how everyone can try and point out what I'm saying, to me to try and "clear the fog" for me or something and have me wake up to what i see... . I am not unaware of anything that i have posted about. I dont go back and read what i write and say "oh my god i just realized... . " no. Im very in the moment and very reality based. The shifting behavior does not happen drastically or frequently in front of my son. I protect him above everything and shield him from reality when it comes to BP behavior.

BP knows, for a fact, that i WILL NOT marry him unless/until some very specific changes are made.

We had a conversation last night and i read him the first reply i received. I was torn to do so because i didnt want him to feel ashamed or at fault but wanted him to calmly LISTEN. Which he did. Then suggested we find a T that specializes in BPD for him to go see alone, and us to go see together.

i guess the only thing really bothering me at this point is the fact that i joined this community for support, i posted under the "staying" topic... . in order to avoid negativity. Strictly because trust me, i tell myself wayyy worse than anyone here could in reference to my child. I pile more guilt on myself than i even really believe is necessary, but im a mother and its what we do.

I have wonderful wonderful childhood experiences of my own and i know exactly how i want my son raised. Meaning, i am not ignorant and if his well-being, including emotional stability, is endangered im out.

Guess i was just hoping for slightly more optimistic responses from people in this forum, especially when having a love one with BPD you're exposed to negativity and pessimism quite often. 

[Grey Kitty]

I can't speak for anybody else, but I was responding to some worrisome things that you mentioned. I'm staying with my wife, I'm always hoping that people here will work things out without breaking up.

Given how much progress you have already seen in your guy, I do believe you should have hope.

But given the sort of behavior you described at the beginning, I do believe that better boundaries to protect your son from his tantrums are needed. The key to this is recognizing that you cannot stop him from raging, throwing a tantrum, or any other bad behavior--all you can do is remove yourself and your son from the situation when he starts.

We have a great workshop on boundaries which would help:

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

Another very useful tool at times like this is taking a time out:

How to take a time out

Most of us on staying have found that tools like these pretty much eliminate rages being directed at us after some time with consistent enforcement--they learn that they won't get what they want/need by raging at us and stop trying to do it. I hope it goes as well for you!

[MaybeSo]

Since this is the Staying Board, you were not directly encouraged to end the relationship. Suggestions offered or asked had to do with your options to modify or limit your sons exposure to the kind if incident(s) you described.

1- can you live separately from him

2-can you prepare to exit the scene early on when it's getting ramped up (not easy but a common  tool on this board, and living separate makes this much easier)

3-basically, what steps can you take to limit your sons exposure to your partners dysregulated states?

Living w/ untreated BPD is very hard on grown adults; imagine how hard it would be for a child.  We are adults and get to choose our partners, our kids are along for whatever ride

we choose.

I work with kids every day that have had traumatic relational experiences growing up, and I

was one of those kids. My father married a BPD/NPD woman when I was about 5, and she

has been part of our lives ever since, I'm now 49. . She was very insecure and jealous (of

normal bonds between parent-child) blaming, irrational, often toward us kids, and at other

times she could be just fine. It was very, very difficult. She had a history of alcoholism, too.

I think I might resonate and understand your situation from both a Childs point of view, an

adults point of view, as a partner to a man w/BPD whose kids I helped him co-parent for 5

years (very hard on his own kids, too)  and as a professional who works with kids.

If you stay in this relationship there are many things you will need to face and feel and deal

with that will come off as yucky, unfair, inconvenient, harsh and not optimistic.

I don't think there's a way to have a r/s like this and not have those feelings or realizations.

Maintaining very firm boundaries is not fun when you live with a pwbPD  and have kids. But

necessary and very important. You can get a lot of support and tools for strengthening

boundaries here on this board... . we ARE offering you support.

Much of my first reply mirrored and spoke to the very concerns you wrote about in your

opening post. I usually try to match/address the concerns as expressed by the poster. You

said your partner still does things that a 3 year old should not see/have modeled. You

argued as he raged in this last incident and in front of your son. Your son is now fighting at

school as a direct result of his exposure to partner and partner's kids who have emotional

regulation issues. He's jealous of your r/s with son. Etc. That seeing your sons dejected face

made you sick to your stomach. I want to speak honestly to your own gut feelings that

this is not good for your son, cause you are right, it's not. I want to validate that gut

feeling that you already have.

BPD takes a really long time to get better; all these things will stay the same, and likely get

worse (more symptomatic) with marriage and closeness because BPD is triggered by

intimacy. This is not just going to go away, even with therapy... . over a long period it could improve.

We are here to support you in facing the facts and staying safe/healthy.

Finding ways to limit exposure and seek safety is a top priority and you can get help here with that (boundaries) etc.,

If we are missing the mark or not meeting your needs, please let us know what it is that

would be helpful to you right now.

[empower-me]

Hey Anomaly,

It's true that we that are working so hard at staying do post here for support and understandably so, but I think when it comes to your child and how well you articulated the story, we could visualize the entire day with you.

Your happy bubbily son just wanting to go back and be with mommy and then to be taken out of such a fun loving carefree mood by a big bully (granted he has a mental illness but still... . ) and then to go thru more rants and rages and him being in the center of it, well, quite frankly, 'it sucks'.  Just the way you described your son we could see his happy smiling face and the warmth you exuded in your words and could start to feel for him as well. And feel his pain as well when he was hurt by the dysregulated mood swing.

But you are to be commended for being so candid and forthcoming in your delivery of the details and wanting the help needed to make the right choices for your family.  He being a part of that family I understand you are trying very hard to remain firm in your resolve to stick by him for the longhaul and work to get the help he needs and also the help you and your son need during this transition.

I wholeheartedly agree with the other poster about establishing stronger boundaries so you and your son do not have your moods affected so much due to his dysregulated moodswings.

It takes a lot of practice and educating yourself but you sound very bright and ready to do whatever it takes and that is half the battle.

The other half is sticking to your resolution to keep the boundaries in place.  It is just like a child and they will continually try to push the envelope to find a weakness and then take advantage of it if and when they can. Not always consciously but they test you out constantly just the same.

So you have to stay well nourished emotionally to ward of the attacks and to keep your beautiful son grounded and help his spirit not to be dejected or negatively impacted by the behavior.  You have your work cut out for you but all families have certain things they have to combat and tackle.

You do have a few options always at your disposal and I know you realize this... .   If he chooses not to get help and you see the toxicity getting worse you certainly can postpone the marriage indefinitately or until he works on himself more fully and with more commitment to change and/ or you can keep working on things as you are doing and always know that if things get too difficult, then you will have to take your son and separate from the madness.

I know your main purpose in moving in together was to help your son avoid being uprooted or having to go thru more change and feel the impact of that so having said that your main concern now is basically the same... .

You want to be happy and stay with the ones you love and you need to know that this isn't going to be the new 'norm' and not see more effort to correct the behavior.

I'm encouraged that he's at least willing to talk about therapy and to hear you out and have those conversations with you. Many with BPD will not do that or even be able to go there so that's a plus.

Has he agreed to seek help on his own?  Or would he rather go with you ?  I know from first hand experience that if they can do it alone it is so much better for everyone. For one he doesn't have you there to blame everything on.  Well, he may still do that but you won't feel the full impact of it like you would in the room during the appointment.  That can really backfire.

Please keep posting and reading what you can to help you establish stronger boundaries that will keep you and your son safe and mentally free from 'his' outbursts. I know easier said than done but having a game plan ahead of time is very critical.  If it seems like you are needing to lean on your game plan more than not then at that time you may want to rethink the r/s and what he needs to do in order to be privy to your love and family.

That is something that not everyone is entitled to so we need to be worthy of that intimacy and not casually walk all over the ones we love. Illness or not, the fact that he's able to discern his behavior after the fact is very important and will hopefully help him reach out and get the help he needs.

Please stay strong and thinking of ways to keep your son in a peaceful place.  That little guy deserves that and so do you.

Take good care,

e-m