How can I handle this better

[figurethis]

Hi everyone new here and trying to learn all this and fix some of my bad habits so i can improve my relationship with my uBPDgf. I have been really working on the validation and not defending myself the last couple times and it worked decently. But last night I got stuck in a spiral and didn't know how to get out!

So as always the fight seemed to start on something isolated. I tried validating her feelings on it and saying that i valued her opinion on it. Unlike before however she started stating that I had an attitude, (to me I did not i was speaking calmly and trying to come across as understanding). I couldn't think of a good way to validate this without sounding like I agree.

So I mess up here and say something like "I'm sorry you feel like I have an attitude, I know these discussions can be stressful." So then the fight continues on and about the premise that I have an attitude and she is only getting angry because I have an attitude. I get a sense that things are escalating fast here so I reiterate again that I understand about how she feels and value her opinion.

She starts saying "I don't want to talk" over and over. "I say ok I understand we are both upset right now (I wasn't but I was getting worried about the building fight). I'm going to do the dishes, I want to talk to you about this when you want later". So I do the dishes and right near the end I hear her drop something in the room and I ask "Are you alright? Do you need help?", she then replies "Oh so now you !@#$ing care". Now I don't know what to do I try saying how i understand she is upset about the situation.

Then she starts into the spiral. I am the reason all the fights start because of my attitude. Again I try and keep things centered on the current issue to no avail. Then begins her saying "I don't care". That she we should break up, that we have broken up. So this is where I really have a problem in the past this is my trigger to get really emotional. After reading I understand this is exactly what she wants I know this is a trap. I calmly try to say, "I understand you are very upset and angry because no one wants to go through the stress of fighting. I am upset to we can work through this". She then says "look at you you are not upset you don't care. you are now single and you aren't showing any emotion. my other exes at least showed emotion and begged me to take them back." She then accuses me a lot of not not caring and no emotion while in the same sentence saying I get too emotional when we fight.  She then says get out we are over the engagements over etc. No I'm not sure I chose to stay because I felt leaving her fora time out would have given her what she wanted. An excuse to paint me black like her exes and not caring and just leaving while she was angry. Was I right in this?

I know I didn't handle this the best. But I was able to feel more in control and not get as hurt with the insults etc because I could see the reasons and stems all over the place. Fear of being abandoned and invalidation fears at every statement. Things have become much clearer at least if for now they aren't easier.

I know its long I appreciate your time

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Lao Tzu]

Dear figurethis,

     Wow, I am truly impressed.  You stood in a hurricane and didn't let it muss your hair.  Yes, that made 'the hurricane' a little frustrated, hence her mutually exclusive name-calling  , but think of what that means for the person in the interaction who might actually be able to improve -- you.  It means you took back some of the power you've ceded her.  She didn't like it and she shouldn't, but you acted like the adult you are and she just isn't able to do that.  You protected your human dignity a bit and I'm so very happy for you. 

     These r/s dynamics, for the 'non', always result in a near total crush of the ego and thus one's self-worth.  You didn't let that happen; in fact, you increased your self-worth, I suspect, at the very time she was trying to destroy it yet again. 

     How can you refuse to play this game only I can win? How dare you! I'm in charge here!  As an emotional 3 year old I will just move the show elsewhere if you don't want to play.  That'll teach you!  This would all be a great subject for parody since it's so very sad and we need to laugh at it much more than we do.

LT

[MichiganGirl]

Hey,

I agree. I think you handled that really, really well. Awesome, in fact. I've been reading this board for about a year now, and have really seriously started applying some of the Lessons in the past few months. My H has had the same reaction to my staying calm in the midst of his chaos: "See! You don't even care! I'm leaving you! [rage, rage, rage]." But guess what? When it's all said and done, I know I care, I haven't lost my cool, and I feel good about myself and my choices. That's all you can do, and it's so totally the right thing. Seriously, way to go. I know it's hard and, for some weird reason, terribly frightening.

[Grey Kitty]

  You did a great job of not taking things personally when you were attacked. Keep up the good work there! You also did some good validation as well.

I think here is where you could try something different:

She starts saying "I don't want to talk" over and over. "I say ok I understand we are both upset right now (I wasn't but I was getting worried about the building fight). I'm going to do the dishes, I want to talk to you about this when you want later". So I do the dishes and right near the end I hear her drop something in the room and I ask "Are you alright? Do you need help?", she then replies "Oh so now you !@#$ing care". Now I don't know what to do I try saying how i understand she is upset about the situation.

If she says she doesn't want to talk, please believe her, and give her space!

When anybody gets upset (dysregulated) their body is pumping adrenaline into their bloodstream, and this is great for fighting, running, or freezing in terror... . but horrible for having a productive disagreement about something important. That won't go away for ~20 minutes, and if something else triggers them again 5 minutes later (a little invalidation, for example), that clock is reset.

Validation can work in response to the first hint of a problem. A steady diet of validation does wonders. But once the fight starts, validating your way out of it isn't likely to work.

Looking back at it, when would you choose to disengage if a similar situation comes up tomorrow?

[emotionaholic]

I am new to all of this and learning as quick as I can and have to say you handled that with textbook accuracy.  I have no answers but want to express how impressed I am.  The books I have been reading about BPD give great examples of how to handle a difficult times with pwBPD and think you did great.

I am curios to see what happens.  I think she wanted a particular reaction that she is used to but you did not give it to her.  Such a great gift to learn and grow you have given.  I hope she takes it.

[figurethis]

Well first of all thanks everyone. Really appreciate all of you comments. I wouldn't say perfectly but I think we all know its about improving and constantly working on it, for ourselves not just our partners. And ya I think the biggest change about what happened was me. And how I felt! Its really amazing how some knowledge about whats going on changes your perspective and your reactions about a situation.

Grey Kitty,

Ya see there is the heart of the issue I guess for me. Its hard because I feel like sure there are times now where I should disengage. But then other times I think like I said its what she wants me to do so she can paint me as the bad guy in her mind. Its a difficult thing knowing her past. I believe the BPD was there prior but made worse by her exes. For example one kicked her out a car and had her hitch hike back home (20miles) talk about reinforcing that fear of abandonment... . So I think ya I will eventually have to work it in but it might have to be a bit slower on that front.

As for how things went it wasn't easy. And as mentioned she took my calm as not caring for a bit. But after reassurance that I was not going anywhere and telling her I know she is hurt and upset. And just reassuring that I love her and I do care, things were alright. She did catch on that I was acting differently and i just reassured her that the way things were going in the past wasn't working. And that I was actively working on myself and our communication because I cared. I think that was definitely appreciated by her.

The next day we spoke on chat while I was at work. It was good and insightful. She really sounded like she wants to work on improving us . She went through more of her past with her exes. Which was pretty bad ranging from emotional to physical abuse (scary stuff, being choked, threatened with wrenches, friends threatened with swords). And to me I think is one of the worst and probably contributes to some of the difficulties now. She had previously suspected she had BPD on her own and really thought she had it. Actually discussed it with her ex. Who disgustingly basically started to use it against her to treat her even worse and use it as excuse to why he was doing so.  He blamed her for him seeing a therapist and basically told her the therapist said it was all her fault as an emotional blackmailer.

Well you can see what this has caused she is not very very hesitant to admit her weakness as she fears it will be used against her. But I do think her being able to say that to me is a huge step. She also said she does not trust me, which she knows is a terrible thing to say in a relationship but she wants to and part of that is on her. She also admitted she has formed defenses due to her past that have turned into abusive tendencies now that are not good. So all in all a very open discussion where she clearly wants to improve herself and us. And I guess thats all we all want. 

I know its just the beginning of my journey in many ways and its not going to be but I'm starting to have a hope and thats a good thing.

[figurethis]

hmm no edit post? doh!

last statement is confusing I meant to say

I know its just the beginning of my journey in many ways, and its not going to be easy, but I'm starting to have a hope and that's a good thing.

[Grey Kitty]

You can disengage in ways that are (relatively) gentle on the fear of abandonment. Here's an example:

(blah blah blah... . I finally realize that this isn't a reasonable discussion anymore, and I need to bail out)

I'm too worked up to talk with you right now. I'm going take a short walk and I'll be back in [20 minutes, 2 hours, or whatever seems right to me].

When you do that, you are letting her know that while you are leaving her, you will be back. If you do this, try VERY HARD to stick to your schedule, and come back on time. Also don't say "soon" or "in a little bit" because if you use a specific time, at least you will both know whether you did or did not do what you said!

If you come back and find that she hasn't calmed down, and starts to attack you again, you can go away again, perhaps for longer. But at least you did come back when you said you would.

Also, understand that she can paint you black if she wants/needs to, and you can't change that. You also can't stop her from painting you white, and while that is more pleasant, it isn't really healthy either.

Does that help you down your journey?

[figurethis]

Thanks Grey that advice does help and I will try it. Thanks!