I want my BPD ex back

[tabular]

Hi everyone,

I am in love with my BPD ex. A lot. I am very aware of the occasional strain he puts on me with his angry outbursts and sudden withdrawals, but I love him and I think I am a very good partner for him, and I find being there for him very fulfilling. And let's face it: when things are good, they are amazing!

We were together for 6 months in which he had a few tantrums and angry outbursts about things completely unrelated to us (he would never get nasty or verbally abusive towards me though, just 'angry at the world' and expressing it 'in front of' me so to speak). Moreover, whenever I would reassure him that I would not leave him (he'd worry about that out of the blue sometimes), he would start crying and get very upset (which he'd do first, and only when I asked him where his sudden moodswing is coming from he'd tell me about his fears). In particular, as I also have quite the temper and I would just leave (but come back 5 mins later) when he started to throw his tantrum. I thought it was the best way to handle it, as it allowed both of us to calm down - so I thought. I was not aware that it would trigger feelings of abandonment in him and never understood why he would get even more upset and tell me he's having nervous breakdowns when I do it. Once the stress of work flared up, he decided that he can't handle a relationship and does not want to be with anyone and be responsible for anyone's feelings. He still wanted to remain friends and we were pretty much in constant contact, with him using me as his emotional outlet and for getting advice on work. We also got briefly back together 2 months after the BU, but he dumped me again after one of his tantrums (that was about his family, not me) and my leaving (and coming back).

It was only today that I went to a therapist for the first time to discuss why I am having a hard time letting him go, and she told me that all the patterns of his behaviour that I am describing are traits of BPD. And I feel SO bad right now, because just a few days ago I told him in a very honest and friendly way that I can't continue to be just friends… (we were still in touch pretty much every day after our second BU). He did not reply to my message and has been ignoring me ever since  It is the first time we've gone this long without communicating.

I am wondering what I should do now? I don't want to suddenly be 'friends' again and initiate contact because I don't want him to think that I am a complete doormat that he can do anything to. But I feel bad that he is interpreting my 'cancellation' of friendship as abandonment and is ignoring me now just to spite me. What do you think are the chances that he will contact me after some time? What would you do if you were him/me in this situation? I did tell him that he can always come to me for advice etc. so I did not shut the door completely, it was just that I could not handle constant communication like we had when we were in a relationship with someone who has made it clear that he doesn't want to be with me. I would be very grateful for any advice and sorry about the length of this post.

[tabular]

Maybe I should add, as I have been reading other posts, that he would always apologise after his tantrums, however, as I was unaware of his condition I would be very hard on him and not hide the fact that I was upset, but we'd always make up very quickly. It is just that I thought this is NORMAL - people fight, cool off, make up - whereas for him any sort of conflict, even if he started it, was absolute hell. He'd always point out that I am very patient and loving towards him and that he doesn't deserve me, but I never felt this way. So please no comments about him being a monster or anything, I don't want to go into the defensive

[Ironmanrises]

Do you want us to give you advice that you want to hear or the uncomfortable reality of the situation, that we can all attest to?

[Pretty Woman]

Hi There Sweets,

    I know how you feel.  

Listen, it's not going to get better if he is BPD. You were in 6mo. Look at some of the stories where people were in this for years and had kids! I was in 15mo with 6 breaks, all her leaving me, cutting off contact and leaving me desperate and forlorn.

It is very common to pick up the "craziness" from our exes. You and I also have issues or we wouldn't have put up with this.

Sometimes you have to look at it from another perspective. You love something that doesn't exist. If it were good you wouldn't be exes.

Don't put yourself through this. You are young. I am so glad you are seeing a therapist. You really need to close the door on this one, hun. Trust me, each time it breaks your heart more and more. You deserve better.

[tabular]

I am not even sure if this is the correct forum, oops, but considering that I am NOT in a relationship with him right now means that it failed, so that's why I posted here…

Anyway, I know - I shouldn't go back, I should move on etc. Believe me, I tried. But the thing is, that he IS a good person. He is incredibly loyal, loving and caring, he just doesn't have his emotions under control very well when something upsets him (such as people impeding on his time), but it is manageable. He is extremely high-functioning in his job. The fact that he is ignoring me right now comes as a huge surprise to me, considering that when he was breaking up with me he put in a lot of effort into explain to me that he just can't handle a relationship right now and he put A LOT of effort into rebuilding our friendship and staying in touch. I just feel bad that not knowing about his condition I cancelled my friendship with him and I might have just contributed to his abandonment issues. And now I don't know how to get back to how things were… maybe not necessarily in a romantic way, but at least to be there for him and him be there for me.

Yes, we were together for only 6 months, but we have known each other and been very good friends for 2 years. Also, I am not THAT young (27).

[tabular]

… and the uncomfortable reality of the situation will be just fine  Somehow, I just want to know how things are from the position of a BPD person, because I am only just learning about this.

[ShadowDancer]

I see big red flags waving to the accompany of attending blaring trumpets... . ANY relationship that winds up on a therapists couch is cause for serious reflection. Are you listening?

[tabular]

Oh, but I did not go to therapy because of that. I went because I am struggling with perfectionism in my work. I just ended up mentioning my most recent break-up and the therapist asked me more about it and told me about BPD.

[Ironmanrises]

I am not even sure if this is the correct forum, oops, but considering that I am NOT in a relationship with him right now means that it failed, so that's why I posted here…

Anyway, I know - I shouldn't go back, I should move on etc. Believe me, I tried. But the thing is, that he IS a good person. He is incredibly loyal, loving and caring, he just doesn't have his emotions under control very well when something upsets him (such as people impeding on his time), but it is manageable. He is extremely high-functioning in his job. The fact that he is ignoring me right now comes as a huge surprise to me, considering that when he was breaking up with me he put in a lot of effort into explain to me that he just can't handle a relationship right now and he put A LOT of effort into rebuilding our friendship and staying in touch. I just feel bad that not knowing about his condition I cancelled my friendship with him and I might have just contributed to his abandonment issues. And now I don't know how to get back to how things were… maybe not necessarily in a romantic way, but at least to be there for him and him be there for me.

Yes, we were together for only 6 months, but we have known each other and been very good friends for 2 years. Also, I am not THAT young (27).

He is a good,loyal, caring person until his emotions become chaotic. That is, when closeness/intimacy with you(trigger day) transforms him into the other side. The ignoring you(a form of silent treatment) is indicative of that other side that appears after trigger day. He is high functioning at his job , no closeness/intimacy from coworkers will trigger that transformation from them, so they see the original mask you saw before trigger day. He appears normal to them. Keep reading the accounts on here and articles on BPD. You will see your story reflected, sometimes word for word, hundreds of times. Mine was the same as yours. A good loving person, until she was triggered into Medusa(other side). She was high functioning at her job too. So no one else saw what i saw. Because she was intimate with me. Hence, i experienced the cruel duality of her fragmented personality. And the silent treatments, i experienced that too. It hurts me to this day, 6+ months of NC later, after round 2 discard(3 rounds if you include friendship phase/discard). Hang in there. I know it hurts.

[tabular]

He is a good,loyal, caring person until his emotions become chaotic. That is, when closeness/intimacy with you(trigger day) transforms him into the other side. The ignoring you(a form of silent treatment) is indicative of that other side that appears after trigger day. He is high functioning at his job , no closeness/intimacy from coworkers will trigger that transformation from them, so they see the original mask you saw before trigger day. He appears normal to them. Keep reading the accounts on here and articles on BPD. You will see your story reflected, sometimes word for word, hundreds of times. Mine was the same as yours. A good loving person, until she was triggered into Medusa(other side). She was high functioning at her job too. So no one else saw what i saw. Because she was intimate with me. Hence, i experienced the cruel duality of her fragmented personality. And the silent treatments, i experienced that too. It hurts me to this day, 6+ months of NC later, after round 2 discard(3 rounds if you include friendship phase/discard). Hang in there. I know it hurts.

Thank you very much, I find your post very helpful and insightful. Indeed, he was AMAZING until suddenly he would go quiet for no reason, weep a little bit, and then he started throwing tantrums, mostly about his family's (not my) behaviour. He seemed EXTREMELY conflicted and I never knew what it was about and why. Of course I also made mistakes, not having my temper under control and getting combative when I found that his reactions made no sense. However, I am hurt that he is choosing to give me the silent treatment now, it is very unlike him. Even when we had arguments and even when we would break up, we still had a great communication going. Just because I said (and believe me, I was loving, caring and begging for understanding) that being just friends is not working for me, while still giving him some advice he asked for afterwards… - and no response to any of it. He did however say hi to me when he ran into me in the corridor at work. It is just so weird  I wish I had known about BPD sooner and I would have handled it a bit better for him and for me, because NC is really unnecessary in our case. I know that my title says that I want him back… but all I really want is just to be friends again how we used to before we got involved with one another.

[Ironmanrises]

He is a good,loyal, caring person until his emotions become chaotic. That is, when closeness/intimacy with you(trigger day) transforms him into the other side. The ignoring you(a form of silent treatment) is indicative of that other side that appears after trigger day. He is high functioning at his job , no closeness/intimacy from coworkers will trigger that transformation from them, so they see the original mask you saw before trigger day. He appears normal to them. Keep reading the accounts on here and articles on BPD. You will see your story reflected, sometimes word for word, hundreds of times. Mine was the same as yours. A good loving person, until she was triggered into Medusa(other side). She was high functioning at her job too. So no one else saw what i saw. Because she was intimate with me. Hence, i experienced the cruel duality of her fragmented personality. And the silent treatments, i experienced that too. It hurts me to this day, 6+ months of NC later, after round 2 discard(3 rounds if you include friendship phase/discard). Hang in there. I know it hurts.

Thank you very much, I find your post very helpful and insightful. Indeed, he was AMAZING until suddenly he would go quiet for no reason, weep a little bit, and then he started throwing tantrums, mostly about his family's (not my) behaviour. He seemed EXTREMELY conflicted and I never knew what it was about and why. Of course I also made mistakes, not having my temper under control and getting combative when I found that his reactions made no sense. However, I am hurt that he is choosing to give me the silent treatment now, it is very unlike him. Even when we had arguments and even when we would break up, we still had a great communication going. Just because I said (and believe me, I was loving, caring and begging for understanding) that being just friends is not working for me, while still giving him some advice he asked for afterwards… - and no response to any of it. He did however say hi to me when he ran into me in the corridor at work. It is just so weird  I wish I had known about BPD sooner and I would have handled it a bit better for him and for me, because NC is really unnecessary in our case. I know that my title says that I want him back… but all I really want is just to be friends again how we used to before we got involved with one another.

My pleasure. You will find many helpful members on here who will provide you with an even greater insight to what you experienced. That behavior is the push/pull dynamic which is "Come here, go away" or "I hate you, dont leave me." Contradictory? Yes. The core of BPD; contradiction to the letter with devastating damage rained upon the person closest to them. Even had you known about his BPD, would have only prolonged the inevitable, discard. It makes no difference. The script that plays out rules at the end. And hurt is left in the wake.

[eclectic]

You know what Tabular, myviews are a lot different from everyone else.  Bpd's can be tough to deal with, but you only live once, and if you love this person, and want to try and make it work, you go for it.  I know me personally, I regret the things I wish I had done, not the things I done, so go for it, if it works great, and if it doesn't you won't be kicking yourself for not trying.

[tabular]

You know what Tabular, myviews are a lot different from everyone else.  Bpd's can be tough to deal with, but you only live once, and if you love this person, and want to try and make it work, you go for it.  I know me personally, I regret the things I wish I had done, not the things I done, so go for it, if it works great, and if it doesn't you won't be kicking yourself for not trying.

Thank you for your reply! The thing is, I am not sitting here all heartbroken over the break-up. I am just hurt about his reaction as a 'friend', and I just can't understand it, it is SO out of character. We have been in contact every day since January 2013! And now just because I said that I find it hard being friends, he decides to ignore me completely. Every other 'friend' would at least say that they understand and wish me well, while really 'good' friends, I think, would actually try to get to the bottom of this somehow (at least I know I would, obviously without tormenting the person). I never said that I never want to hear from him again, I did say that if he ever needs something he can drop me an e-mail. Now I am just not sure how to react when I see him… wait out his NC? See if he comes around? Initiate contact (which would kind of hurt my pride, to be honest)? I just have no idea.

[Conundrum]

If this person really has BPD then you must accept that they can and will disconnect from you. Discard you entirely from their psyche. While you are in pain pining away for some form of continued relationship--they are not. They have the ability to erase you from their consciousnesses. It isn't personal--it's comes with the territory--a clinical trait--patterns of unstable relationships. Out of sight, out of mind.  You really have to wrap your mind around that or you'll remain in a state of denial, illusion. Of course, they usually come back too, but that's another story entirely.

You mentioned FOO issues. How much do you really know about that? More than likely that is where the trauma originates from. That is probably also why he has a laser focus on those issues, as they always chafe against that core wound.   

[tabular]

Deep down I am obviously hoping that he will eventually start missing me and our daily interactions. This must be quite an adjustment for him as well, though if he is upset he probably is not thinking about it in this way. As I said - he is not a mean or evil person, he is just very 'emotional' and gets overwhelmed at times for no reason. I know I am strong enough to handle him, and he has said so himself, he also said that he feels very comfortable with me and that  I understand and care about him. I said that I have a temper, but it is more of a 'spoilt brat' kind of temper that can be easily turned off if the situation is serious. I just never thought it was, because I did not know about his BPD, and treated him and our occasional spats like I would have treated every other boyfriend (self-criticism here: spoiled brat princess  ).

[tabular]

You mentioned FOO issues. How much do you really know about that? More than likely that is where the trauma originates from. That is probably also why he has a laser focus on those issues, as they always chafe against that core wound.   

I am not sure I understand FOO issues correctly (Family of Origin issues?), but if I think what it is that you mean, he was shipped off to boarding school at a very young age, away from a country that he loves dearly, has a mother that is extremely demanding of his time (he is pretty much a replacement husband on social occasions for her as they live in the same country), lives very far away from his very old father (even though his parents are still together, it is very weird… 30 years age-gap between them, they have been living for 20 years on two different continents). Can this be regarded as FOO issues?

[tabular]

(sorry, I don't know how to edit posts… ). The thing with the mother is also that he simply cannot say 'no' to her, even though he gets very upset when she wants him to spend time with her 4 days a week and he is trying to work. He also had a huge problem saying 'no' to me, and later would resent me for coming to hang out even though he actually wanted to work. He would never say so in the first place. I did eventually get him to say 'maybe', which I correctly started to interpret as 'no', but before then I just did not understand why he just can't tell me that he doesn't have time - I'd have never gotten upset!

[Perfidy]

In looking at my self I realize that I was also in the push pull dynamic. I knew that when I first met her she was sick. I asked her (told her) to leave. She would not leave. It was my home. Very frustrating that this went on for years. The alternating idealization and devaluing kept me off balance. The sex was blinder and a binder. The only thing that was consistant was the sex. Everything else was unstable.

[Conundrum]

I am not sure I understand FOO issues correctly (Family of Origin issues?), but if I think what it is that you mean, he was shipped off to boarding school at a very young age, away from a country that he loves dearly, has a mother that is extremely demanding of his time (he is pretty much a replacement husband on social occasions for her as they live in the same country), lives very far away from his very old father (even though his parents are still together, it is very weird… 30 years age-gap between them, they have been living for 20 years on two different continents). Can this be regarded as FOO issues?

Definitely. The boarding school incident, certainly relates in theory to classical abandonment trauma. Whether it's the core wound--I cannot say. But what you're describing are red flags.

[tabular]

I just want to back paddle on the whole not being able to be friends thing  If only I had known about BPD I would have taken a whoole different approach to this. I was not 'hurt' being friends, I was just too 'proud' to be there as I considered him to be selfish, rather than being overwhelmed by conflicting emotions. Now I am the selfish one. I need a way out of this hole 

[Free2Bee]

Hi Tabular,

I'm sorry you're going through this. It's really hard, isn't it? I can tell that you really care for this guy and his silence is very hurtful to you. It sounds like you're feeling helpless and frustrated.

A person with BPD processes emotions and perceives events in a way that's dramatically different from yours. If your guy really *does* have BPD, then it's not likely that he's reacting to this 'no contact' the same way you are. If you haven't already, explore this website a bit more and get to know BPD. It will help you understand him better. This is a serious mental illness and the behaviours associated with it are rarely logical - in fact, they're quite the opposite.

I totally get your frustration. It sounds like you believe that he's a good soul. You care deeply about him - and yet he's behaving in this odd way that you can't quite wrap your head around.

Chances are, underneath the mental illness (if that's indeed what's going on), he probably *is* a great guy. My ex is an absolutely remarkable woman - I felt like we were well-suited to each other in practically every way. And I'm a strong person (she said that no one could handle her like I could). Honestly? I miss her like crazy. They broke the mould after that one, I'll never meet another woman like her.

But in the end, I decided that I didn't want to be in a relationship that required me to be someone else's 'emotional manager'. When you're in a relationship with someone with BPD (particularly a person who is not in therapy and not aware of their disorder), that's pretty much what it comes down to.

You sound bright and self-aware and sweet. It's a HUGE ocean out there, just FULL of fish!   My official piece of unsolicited advice is this: Let him go. Take care of you. You're awesome and you deserve awesome.

That said, keep talking on these boards. We'll keep listening and supporting you no matter what you decide. Good luck

Kai

[mitchell16]

tabular. I wont tell you not stay and try to make it work. Leaving and staying is something you or anybody really has to deicide on their own. With me I was committed it working, I changed everything, I put up with things that I nevrer dreamed I would. And Let me add Nothing of her crazy disugusting behaviors showed at teh six month mark. Oh, there was plenty of red flags, But her behaviors just keep getting worse. at teh 6 month mark I exprience a one break up ( push away) like 3 or 4 little raging episodes much like a childs temper tantrum. But she was so good, she would quickly explain it alway. she was stressed from work, she felt like I didnt really love her, She was upset over a family issues etc... Of course I bought into and thought if I just learned how to act it would all get better, I mean according her, it was all my fault. I wouldnt give her space when she waas acting this way, accordingto her. But in my defense they came out of nowwhere. I can remember the first attack I was in shock, I had never seen anybody act that way.

fast forward to two years later and about 10 or so break ups. She esculated to getting drunk in bar and raging at me in public becasue I wouldnt let her drive drunk, cheating on me, making me look like an idiot, out of control rages and if i wasnt man she probably would have assualted me. stealing from my house, telling lies about me, harrassing phone calls.

and I could only imagine what was to come if i stayed. So if you are seeing these signs at 6 months i would serioulsy question all this. I didnt and I paid for it. In my defense I had never heard of BPD or really been around someone who had a mental problem. I knew something was wrong with her but she work in the mental health field and she alwasy told me it was me. I started doing crazy stuff to validate or see if was me. it wasnt. I wasted  over 2 years of my life, about $10,000 and almost my health and sanity. Its been over 6 months now and Im starting to feel good and starting to get my life back. BPD with treatment I beleive can get better But good luck getting them into treatment. we went but she never followed up on any visits at all, never did any of the work thatw as requied. so of cours eit didnt help or work, I wish you luck. I dont want tobe friends with mine at all, why would I want to be firends with someone who treated me that bad.

[tabular]

Hello kind people, thank you so so much for all your advice. As you can imagine, I am quite shaken up about hearing about BPD and I am trying to make sense of it, so I really appreciate everything you are telling me. First thing: His behaviour is quite the opposite of 'destructive' in the common sense (he doesn't drink, doesn't party, is not one for public expressions of anger and making scenes), but he does take it to the other extreme in the sense of being EXTREMELY committed to work, NOT drinking, considering going out and having fun as some kind of 'weakness' (though he never explicitly said so), keeping the tantrums at home etc. Secondly, I have decided (and I am going to stick to it) that I DO NOT want him back as a boyfriend. I think there is probably someone better out there for him and I am not selfless enough to be someone's emotional punching bag, as I call it (as in, being there whenever they need it, but not being able to expect the same in return).

HOWEVER (and I did not mention this before): I am a bit older than him. And that's probably why I feel very very responsible for him to an extent. I can see now my own flaws that came about out of ignorance when it comes to what he might be going through (and I am not saying he has BPD, my therapist however immediately pointed that out to me and from what I am reading he has a lot of the traits). Therefore I am feeling incredibly guilty for 'cancelling' the friendship. I was thinking about sending him an email (not now, obviously, but in about 2 weeks time if he doesn't respond) telling him that I will never abandon him in any way, that he can always come to me if he needs to vent, needs advice or anything. But that I could not continue being 'friends' when deep down I felt like I had the agenda of getting him back (in the sense that I have - and I swear! - processed the break-up rationally, but I caught myself many times on the fact that I have not processed it emotionally and that any reaching out on his part was interpreted by me deep down as a chance to get him back).

I have analysed my motives of why I would send this to him. Of course there is the issue of relieving my own guilt, which I know is selfish. I definitely do not want to manipulate him to get back with me! This is why I am asking you, do you think it could in any way make him feel better? I don't want him to be even more confused or upset, I just know that even though he has a lot of friends, there is nobody really close to him like this, and I want him to have that person (whether it is me or anyone else). I have this person in my life (not him), and I could not be more grateful.

Thank you for reading yet again an epically long post

[santa]

If you want your life to be a living hell, then yeah, I think you should go ahead and do that.

You've only wasted 6 months on this person. Cut your losses and do something else. If you don't, you'll really regret it.

[santa]

You've got to be realistic about this too. This person is mentally ill. Not the kind of mentally ill that throws pennies in a fountain and makes everyone laugh either. This is a dangerous kind of mentally ill. The kind that can destroy anything good you have in life. It's also somewhat contagious. If you spend enough time with this crazy, it's going to make you crazy too.

Do you want to get arrested for something you didn't do? Do you want to sleep in a locked closet because he's raging? Do you want everyone that likes you now to think horrible things about you because of things this guy tells them? The smear campaigns these people are capable can literally humiliate you.

You need to seriously think about this.

[Pretty Woman]

I echo Santa's sentiments.

If you haven't been through a smear campaign you have no idea.

I was dumped in May. When I tried to get closure my ex threatened a restraining order on me. Who does that? This was my first gay relationship and she knew that.

Plus she is 42. The whole thing immature.

I work with her sister and we used to be friends. This last time she can't even look me in the eye. It's like I am some insane person.  They will say the most vile things about you and make you look insane.

It's awful. Please cut your losses and find someone who treats you better.

[tabular]

To be honest, mutual friends told me that he has never said a bad word about me. But then again this is Britain, and it is considered very bad form to badmouth someone in the first place. But you have a point there about the rages. I just found it completely impossible to handle a rage that had nothing to do with anything I did or said, but with other people who weren't even present (and knowing that he would never throw a fit in front of them). I am not afraid of him to ever raise a hand on me though, ever. But I get the point. Also, I found it very difficult to deal with his inability to say 'no'. A simple 'no, sorry, don't have the time, will talk later'. Instead he would meet me, make it out to be a great sacrifice, and then resent me for taking up his time. Bizarre. And his inability to make any decision! Jeez, try to decide where to eat with him, a constant back-and-forth. And if his (finally!) chosen restaurant would not have any tables, I would get the silent treatment until we found another one.

But he always owned up to this, always apologised. It is just that at some point I could not be that understanding and patient anymore and would also lose it.

I don't want to be his girlfriend anymore. But he is a good guy, troubled, yes, but good. And now knowing all this and being able to identify his behaviour it is as if a light-bulb went off in my head. I think he deserves a friend who knows at least a little bit what he is about and going through.

[tabular]

Yeah, I probably won't send that message after all. I just feel like he would think that I am harassing him, even if it is coming from a good place. He never threatened to call the police, but when I tried to talk to him when he suddenly decided to dump me out of the blue and tell him that he is being silly, just stressed with work, I can back off until he's finished etc., he did say that my persistent calling (and I admit, I did call persistently, I just could not understand why he wouldn't pick up… at least that's what I am telling myself) made him afraid of me… SO BIZARRE! Just bloody talk to me face to face, I am not screaming or crying, I just want to have an adult conversation and come to a conclusion.

[LilMissSunshine]

Honey... . Tabular... . sweetheart... . it's just starting for you.  It only gets worse than becomes horrifying.  Pls do all the research you can on BPD and stay on this board.  I've only been here a couple months and it has been my saving grace.  They don't get better, they only get worse and will destroy you in the process.  " The more you love them, the more they hate you. "  Remember that   

[tabular]

Honey... . Tabular... . sweetheart... . it's just starting for you.  It only gets worse than becomes horrifying.  Pls do all the research you can on BPD and stay on this board.  I've only been here a couple months and it has been my saving grace.  They don't get better, they only get worse and will destroy you in the process.  "The more you love them, the more they hate you."  Remember that 

Yeah, and considering that he is only 23… I dread to think, to be honest. As I said, good guy, but I did notice him spiralling downwards towards disrespect the more I gave myself to him. I will tell myself that quotation whenever I run into him at work, thank you for that.

[myself]

I just want to have an adult conversation

When the other person is acting and feeling childish, seeing you as the persecutor, as the mother-figure who hurt him in the past, you won't have an adult conversation. Leaving the door open because you care for him is understandable, but leaves you with the door open, available to be hurt by him again. It only stops when we stop it.

[tabular]

When the other person is acting and feeling childish, seeing you as the persecutor, as the mother-figure who hurt him in the past, you won't have an adult conversation. Leaving the door open because you care for him is understandable, but leaves you with the door open, available to be hurt by him again. It only stops when we stop it.

Mother-figure! Absolutely. I noticed that the more I told him that I was into him not just emotionally but particularly physically, he started to withdraw physically (kind of the opposite reaction you'd expect from a 23-year old guy in love, isn't it? let me add that I'm hot, haha) It came to the point that he started to emphasise more and more that he only enjoyed talking to me (him talking, me listening) and sharing his issues with me. I even ended up asking him once, jokingly: 'oh, so you want me to just be your mommy, don't you?'

[Moonie75]

Tab,

British, American, Asian, whatever origin, wherever a pwBPD resides, they will 'act out' textbook!

I'm in Britain as others on this site are. We've been through the devaluation ringer (me a few times before I learned).

If you haven't been on end of a smear campaign (painted black), you're lucky! Very lucky!

It may have happened & you've not heard what's been said? It's possible.

If you stay in this on/off cyclical relationship, which is what it will become, you will be treated progressively worse in each 'off' period!

You become a bigger trigger each recycle. And being more of a trigger than last time, you trigger their issues quicker than the last go too!

I for one won't judge you if you choose to go through these cycles!

Best we can do is talk from our hearts about our own experiences. Tell you wher you will find good reading matter. We can/will be here & support you.

You go careful Me fellow Brit girl.

Moonie.

What ever you end up deciding, please get educated on BPD & make the decision an informed one!

[tabular]

(Off-topic: I just saw that he re-read my no-friendship-email from a few days ago… I am in sales so I have an e-mail tracker installed by my company… arghhh on a loop: the more you love them, the more they hate you, the more you love etc.) Anyway, I am just sad it had to end this way with him ignoring me now. He'll probably discard me completely from his mind. Hopefully my guilt about misunderstanding him this much will get better after some time.

[bewildered2]

tabular,

why not take a moment and read up on BPD?

really study it and realize what it is, and what it is like to be involved with someone who suffers from it. read "stop walking on eggshells" and "i hate you dont leave me".

then, if you believe that he might suffer from BPD (and suffer is the right term, because it is a living hell for these people who have it), you will be better able to decide what to do.

unfortunately, carrying on in the belief that his behavior will get better, and that the person you used to know will return, is a mistake. if he has BPD, then it will get worse with time.

sadly, that's the way it is.

the great person you fell in love with was an illusion, and an illusion that you will see less and less often, unless he needs you.

make sure you understand about his fears of abandonment, and that you also understand that there is nothing that you or anyone can do to make those fears go away.

BPD is very real, and it is very serious, and it is not something that you caused, can control, or cure.

b2

[tabular]

Thank you for your advice! My therapist suggested the eggshells book, but I only looked at the first freely available pages on amazon so far. They had this list of questions in the beginning as a way to define for who this book is for. I am afraid to say that I replied with 'yes' to most of them  But I know - and my therapist said so herself - that she and noone can diagnose him without speaking to him first. I understand the danger of 'labelling' someone without a proper diagnosis, so I will stop writing about him as a BPD person now. I, myself, too often notice people throwing around words like 'narcissist', 'bipolar' and 'depressive', just because someone is just an unpleasant person, very extrovert or miserable.

But I will definitely continue reading about BPD, just because it corresponds to so much of his behaviour (which I always put down to 'immaturity' and it also corresponds to a lot of things he said about himself, about his inner turmoil, his indecisiveness, his extreme sensitivity, tendency to get overwhelmed in intimate relationships, extreme insomnia etc. etc. Maybe if I meet someone like him again, I will be able to pick up on the signs sooner if I inform myself properly.

[janey62]

Hi Tabular,

I'm so sorry you're going through all of this, I know it's hard for you right now, but I really do urge you to take on board what everyone is saying about your situation.

Of course, its true what you say, that we can't actually diagnose anyone but there seem to be similarities and one of the effects on the partners of BPD sufferers that I've noticed is that we all seem to begin to lose ourselves and become ever more involved and obsessed with everything they say and do.  That is part of the illness, we become trapped and so concerned with helping, rescuing and saving them that we stop considering ourselves and our needs and make more and more allowances for the erratic way they behave.  After a year and a half I no longer know where he ends and I begin, and not in a good way... .

From reading all of what you've said I think it sounds as if you are in that place.  I know how hard that is.  You say several times that you regret telling him you no longer wanted to be friends because the result of that was that he is ignoring you.  Sounds like you feel really uncomfortable about that and also guilty.  That's because he wants you to feel guilty, maybe not consciously, but that's the aim, its a way of controlling you that is not very well thought out or mature, but it is effective. 

In fact your sensible head was telling you that it can't be healthy to be in constant contact with someone you have broken up with.  But the part of you that's caught up in his illness is trying to drag you back. 

My partner has tantrums, crying, fretting about us and the possibility that I would leave him, can't stand stress or noise, rages against his mother (and later against me), feels the world is against him, breaks up with me frequently telling me that he hates me and then that he is sorry and wants me back.  He did warn me often in the beginning though.  During one of his episodes, when he'd stopped insulting and attacking me he would express a lot of guilt and say things like, 'I'm sorry, but I will always let you down.'  Of course, I ignored these very clear warnings, until it was too late.

Keep reading…

Janey x

[TwoCents]

You might want to also peruse the staying and undecided boards, if you haven't already.  You will find some good tips on how to cope with your situation.

[tabular]

My partner has tantrums, crying, fretting about us and the possibility that I would leave him, can't stand stress or noise, rages against his mother (and later against me), feels the world is against him, breaks up with me frequently telling me that he hates me and then that he is sorry and wants me back.  He did warn me often in the beginning though.  During one of his episodes, when he'd stopped insulting and attacking me he would express a lot of guilt and say things like, 'I'm sorry, but I will always let you down.'  Of course, I ignored these very clear warnings, until it was too late.

Thank you for your reply. And indeed, he tried to warn me too. He often mentioned that he always makes the same mistakes in his relationships, but then he could never really articulate what these mistakes were. He would also often ask me about when I would finally realise that he is not a good person and that he will never be able to make me happy, even though I had just assured him a few minutes before that I was very happy as we were on a lovely walk in the park and having a nice time up until his sudden statement. To be fair, he never directly insulted or attacked me and he never said he hated me - quite the opposite. I would always only be a spectator to his tantrums (which were about his mother/family/stress/noisy neighbour etc.) or get reproached about staying at his place after he invited me over, but never explicitly in a verbally abusive way.

I will have a look at the other threads, thank you!

[tabular]

Help! He just replied, excused himself for not answering my emails (said he had a few bad days), thanked me for my advice and just asked a question about how I've been getting on with my most recent work project. No mention about the friendship-cancellation and with the question he seems to want to continue the conversation. I have no idea what to do or how to respond. Torn between wanting to be there for him and wanting him to respect or at least ACKNOWLEDGE my request. Apart from everything I've been describing here so far, this is just one of those little bizarre behaviours that I just don't understand. It is harmless, I know, but just so weird. I know I am overreacting big-time, or am I?

[Free2Bee]

Nope, you're not overreacting, Tabular.  This type of behaviour is heartbreakingly common. People with BPD will frequently have a rage episode or a 'bad day', then pretend it didn't happen. If you ask a tough questions, they'll blow up over it, then carry on as if you never asked. I'm sure there's probably a thread or article on this site document this phenomenon. One of the more senior members might be able to steer you in the right direction.

Hon, you're not alone in this. I know the behaviour is surreal and hard to understand. And it's *really* hard to know what to do. I can't tell you what your decision should be, but I *can* advise you to read and learn as much as you can and keep posting here - I've found that writing about what I was experiencing was helpful to placing it into context.

If you don't keep a private journal, this might be a good time to begin one.

[tabular]

I am sure you're right. I still felt like asking him what this bad days were about, because I'd find it hard to believe that it was about that e-mail. I just worry as his dad is very very old that something might have happened there. But if it is nothing serious / if he even replies, I am going NC from now on. Time to heal.

I know I have only been here for a day, but I must say that I found a lot of comfort on this forum. Even the most straight-forward and harsh truth users who replied to my thread have done so in a very respectful manner that did not make me go into the defensive right away. Thank you for this! You have a great community here.

[strikeforce]

There is no happy ending with these people.

You need to take a look at why you love someone like that.

[patientandclear]

Tabular, your situation reminds me overwhelmingly of mine with my uBPDexbf.  I don't have time to write much now, but in sum:

The ideal situation for him would be deep emotional access to you, someone who knows him well and have proven loyal and loving, without any obligation on him to be there for you at any particular moment -- able to pull away without violating any rules, and yet come back when he can/wants to.  I think many pwBPD have a very hard time combining emotional depth and intimacy with physical intimacy.  In my case, my ex had been sexually abused and I believe felt that anyone who tried to get close to him actually had a hidden agenda of some sort, and if I'd make a big deal about how great the sex was (and it was), I think he would have become afraid I was just pretending to care about him to get sex.

We were very close friends after our breakup, though only after a period of NC.  I think this was very valuable to him.  In some ways this is the perfect r/s for someone wBPD.

I'm sure, now, he's hoping you'll forget what you said about your own needs, & just return to how you were.  It works really well for him.

But the basic dynamic doesn't go away.  He is using you to meet important needs of his but he isn't & won't be accountable to you.

Like you, I kept feeling that if we were so close, surely, there must be more.  After all, what we had was what love really is.  But like your ex, mine was insistent that it was "only" a friendship.  I think he was scared for me to become too important to him, to be in a place where me leaving would devastate him, or where I could hurt him.

The problem is we still got there as "friends." He would still "leave" when we got super close (withdrawing, and ultimately, suddenly moving to a new city).  And the closer we got, the stranger it was that we were not in an acknowledged partnership.

It all finally blew up when he started sort of pushing "pause" with me and I realized he was seeing someone else.  I felt replaced/displaced and told him so.  This was my boundary -- I was willing to be that close to him, allow the withdrawals without shaming him, but I couldn't do it while he switched other women into that place.  Like you, I offered to still be around in some fashion, but he couldn't manage what he heard as an "accusation" that he was behaving badly (though I said no such thing, just that that didn't work for me) and abruptly cut things off.

If you want this emotional quasi-partnership with someone you can't have sex with or be acknowledged by as their virtual partner, I expect he will want to do continue doing that with you indefinitely, as it is enormously valuable for him.  I found it to be very damaging to me to love someone so much and to believe he loved me too, only to have him repeatedly leave and reject me over and over again.  Conundrum says that's just to be expected & I agree with him.  Like Janey says though, I think there are very few of us who do not end up deeply damaged by being on the receiving end of being repeatedly set aside by someone we love so much and so tenderly.

[tabular]

Tabular, your situation reminds me overwhelmingly of mine with my uBPDexbf.  I don't have time to write much now, but in sum:

The ideal situation for him would be deep emotional access to you, someone who knows him well and have proven loyal and loving, without any obligation on him to be there for you at any particular moment -- able to pull away without violating any rules, and yet come back when he can/wants to.  I think many pwBPD have a very hard time combining emotional depth and intimacy with physical intimacy.  In my case, my ex had been sexually abused and I believe felt that anyone who tried to get close to him actually had a hidden agenda of some sort, and if I'd make a big deal about how great the sex was (and it was), I think he would have become afraid I was just pretending to care about him to get sex.

We were very close friends after our breakup, though only after a period of NC.  I think this was very valuable to him.  In some ways this is the perfect r/s for someone wBPD.

I'm sure, now, he's hoping you'll forget what you said about your own needs, & just return to how you were.  It works really well for him.

But the basic dynamic doesn't go away.  He is using you to meet important needs of his but he isn't & won't be accountable to you.

Like you, I kept feeling that if we were so close, surely, there must be more.  After all, what we had was what love really is.  But like your ex, mine was insistent that it was "only" a friendship.  I think he was scared for me to become too important to him, to be in a place where me leaving would devastate him, or where I could hurt him.

The problem is we still got there as "friends." He would still "leave" when we got super close (withdrawing, and ultimately, suddenly moving to a new city).  And the closer we got, the stranger it was that we were not in an acknowledged partnership.

It all finally blew up when he started sort of pushing "pause" with me and I realized he was seeing someone else.  I felt replaced/displaced and told him so.  This was my boundary -- I was willing to be that close to him, allow the withdrawals without shaming him, but I couldn't do it while he switched other women into that place.  Like you, I offered to still be around in some fashion, but he couldn't manage what he heard as an "accusation" that he was behaving badly (though I said no such thing, just that that didn't work for me) and abruptly cut things off.

If you want this emotional quasi-partnership with someone you can't have sex with or be acknowledged by as their virtual partner, I expect he will want to do continue doing that with you indefinitely, as it is enormously valuable for him.  I found it to be very damaging to me to love someone so much and to believe he loved me too, only to have him repeatedly leave and reject me over and over again.  Conundrum says that's just to be expected & I agree with him.  Like Janey says though, I think there are very few of us who do not end up deeply damaged by being on the receiving end of being repeatedly set aside by someone we love so much and so tenderly.

this totally hit home. When we stayed friends after our first break-up (for clarification: he was the one that insisted immediately that I become his GF, yet never introduced me to any of his friends apart from one very trusted one who has now become one of my best friends, ironically), he would ALWAYS make sure to mention that I understand him better than anyone, that I am most patient blablabla. When we rekindled it was - I believe - purely based on the fact that I told him that I can't be just friends and him responding that it is so nice to talk to me, go out to restaurants, movies etc. etc. but without the physical aspect of it. It is certainly that 'deep emotional access' that he is craving and he knows that he can get it with me, but I am sorry - I am in love. And without it being reciprocated in the ordinary, 'normal' relationship kind of sense I would just end up being extremely miserable.

So I responded to him, asked him about his bad days, and re-stated my needs.

The odd thing is, that as much as he has a power over me (obviously as I am emotionally involved), I often got the feeling that he is a little bit scared of me. I can't really explain why or how this manifests, but I often got that feeling from him. I guess this 'fear' was also what made him dump me in the end.

[tabular]

Urgh, he's probably angry with me for not being over him yet and BFFs   The more I think about it and write about it, I come to the conclusion that I can't be a BPD emotional punching bag. I'm not a saint.

[laelle]

I came to this website after numerous recycles with my ex.  I learned the tools of staying and used them to try to "save" the relationship.

Yes, I can learn how to talk to him... . yes, I can learn to not take it personal, and yes, I can learn to place boundaries so I am not walked all over... .

I do all this for him, and in return, I give all and get the same old nothing back.  It is all take with them, and they wont change.  Regardless of how hard you try or how much you give it will never be enough... .

Your needs and wants will never be met because it will always be about him.  If you try to overly burden him with your needs he will scold, ignore, punish you for pressuring him when his life is so full of chaos... . "How dare you have a need... . you are so selfish."  

Someone with BPD dumps their emotional garbage on you and then blames you for being dirty.  You cant be "good" or "clean" enough because they will keep piling their garbage on you and then hate you for their garbage.  Their thinking is not logical and you can not make them see that they are disordered.  You will chase your tail trying to be good enough.

Why should I have to put on a suit of armor to protect me from someone who is suppose to love me.  Love does not hurt like that.

Seeing how I let my ex treat me, it really brought into the open the valid question of... . "how much do I love myself to put up with this ?"  My body was tired, stressed and fatigued.  I had an ache in my gut and knew something was not right but could not put my finger on it.

I found the ache... . It was his constant "need" to "need", and my constant "need" to make him happy... .  He could never be happy because he is BPD (this is his core script), How do you make someone happy who cant be happy... . You can't.  I understand that you feel bad because you pushed his abandonment button and so he is now punishing you for doing so.

Do you really want to be in a relationship with someone who punishes you for being honest with them about how you feel?  If he is BPD, I promise you, he wont be overly bothered with your feelings unless there is something in it for him.

 Laelle

[lemon flower]

I just want to back paddle on the whole not being able to be friends thing  If only I had known about BPD I would have taken a whoole different approach to this. I was not 'hurt' being friends, I was just too 'proud' to be there as I considered him to be selfish, rather than being overwhelmed by conflicting emotions. Now I am the selfish one. I need a way out of this hole 

hi Tabular,

this is very recognisable to me. I come out of a 6 months relationship too, and I realised only afterwards that he suffers from BPD (check my profile for the short story), only until now I made a firm decission THAT I DON'T want him back (in a relationship), although I still love him and I miss him (but I won't tell him),

these are my reasons why:

- 6 months is not long, allready it was difficult, but be sure the worst is yet to come, just check some of the stories of long time members here

- If he would be ready for a therapy I MIGHT want a relationship again in the long term, but until now, he is not even diagnosed, and it is very hard for some BPd-s to continue the therapy because it's a struggle and it's not fun, and I ABSOLUTELY DO N OT WANT THAT HE GOES IN THERAPY FOR ME, HE MUST SEE THE NEED TO DO IT FOR HIMSELF

- think for yourself if you want him out of love, or because you want to help him ? I chose that I want to help him, and i consider I might be of more help for him if i keep some distance and try to acknowledge him in a friendship sort of way (though it is really hard to keep that distance, I know  :'(

just some things to consider... .

good luck to you and your love 

[janey62]

Help! He just replied, excused himself for not answering my emails (said he had a few bad days), thanked me for my advice and just asked a question about how I've been getting on with my most recent work project. No mention about the friendship-cancellation and with the question he seems to want to continue the conversation. I have no idea what to do or how to respond. Torn between wanting to be there for him and wanting him to respect or at least ACKNOWLEDGE my request. Apart from everything I've been describing here so far, this is just one of those little bizarre behaviours that I just don't understand. It is harmless, I know, but just so weird. I know I am overreacting big-time, or am I?

Is it harmless?  I'm not so sure?  The result of this very confusing behaviour for me is to confuse me, and when I'm confused my defences are down and I'm vulnerable.  I also feel very worried about what I did to bring it on, what I should have done or not done, and frantically try to think of how I can help so that it doesn't keep happening... .

I can recognise this pattern, as I'm sure can practically everyone else here.  The calm happy rational time and then the sudden (usually unprovoked), shocking outburst of rage and nastiness (either directed at us or others) and then the withdrawal and silence, then the sudden reappearance as if nothing had happened.  The thing is, you're so damn grateful that they've reappeared that you go along with the lie!

xx Janey

[Cardinals in Flight]

Hi Tab

I'll chime in here to also sadly add that I have a near exact template of your relationship right down to the recent attempt at recycling.  I'll not bore you with my story it's all here in black and white from day one Dec. 2011.

When you go NC you will be able to gain clarity, this is painful agonizing stuff. And when there is yet another attempt (notice I said when? Not if?), you may be in a much better place to be more firm in boundary setting, if you in fact try to remain where you stand right now, kinda limbo like?   You'll see all of this for exactly what it means.

Pain, and more pain, and you are 100% correct about being miserable if you go the BFF route, it's ALL take and no give.

I'm so sorry you are going through this, I can totally relate.

(())

CiF

[tabular]

Ah thank you so so much for your comments, much needed now as I received yet another reply. This time he acknowledges that I said that it is hard for me to be friends, but says that he still wants to but that he understands if it is hard for me. And then asks me a random question about a TV-show. I am just laughing at this point. Also, he doesn't want to share why he had some bad days, just remains cryptic ('an accumulation of stuff'. Maybe he's found someone else and that person is upsetting him and that's why he doesn't want to mention it to me, what do I know.

[tabular]

I am letting go…

And in reply to another user, no, I only want to be with him out of love. I can't be there for him as a friend. I know it is not completely selfless of me, but I know myself, and even though I would like to think that I have it in me to be selfless enough to just be there for another person in order to help them, it would end up upsetting me too much. I have way too many insecurities and a tendency to overanalyse things to be involved in this sort of relationship. I like my interpersonal relationships to be mutual and of mutual benefit to everyone involved (just so it is clear that I also don't like using people, I just can't see myself giving and giving and giving to someone who ONLY takes).

[laelle]

I can't be there for him as a friend. I know it is not completely selfless of me, but I know myself, and even though I would like to think that I have it in me to be selfless enough to just be there for another person in order to help them, it would end up upsetting me too much.

This isnt being selfish at all.  It is being true to yourself and your needs and wants.  It is absolutely ok to want a whole relationship, and not want to bargain it down to a friendship.

[lemon flower]

yeah, I can understand that, though "bargain down" doesn't sound in my ears, a true friend can be much more valuable then an on/off lover... .

anyway I do realise that for my ex my idea of friendship does not really exist, but then again, those people have been abandonned by almost everyone in their life, if I can manage to keep him on an emotionally "safe" distance but still support him I will definitely do that... .

but it doesn't mean that this is my advise to you, Tabular, if it doesn't feel right to you, than stay away: he will survive anyway , and it's his journey through life, unfortunately we are all responsible for our own life, and that goes for the BPD-person as well... .

[tabular]

triskina, I understand and very much respect your point. I am really impressed by your level of compassion and understanding for your ex. Funny thing is, my ex is EXTREMELY fearful about the future, even though he comes from an incredibly wealthy family (like - private jet wealthy). I never ever understood that, but I admired him for being this hardworking and committed to success. But I won't be part of this future. It is not just that I want my needs met, but I also know that my need (at least right now) is to have him right here next to me watching a movie. And I know that considering the chemistry we had (or I had towards him) this is not going to change in the foreseeable future, and I would not be able to stand myself if I pretended to be his friend but had a different agenda.

[growing_wings]

If this person really has BPD then you must accept that they can and will disconnect from you. Discard you entirely from their psyche. While you are in pain pining away for some form of continued relationship--they are not. They have the ability to erase you from their consciousnesses. It isn't personal--it's comes with the territory--a clinical trait--patterns of unstable relationships. Out of sight, out of mind.  You really have to wrap your mind around that or you'll remain in a state of denial, illusion. Of course, they usually come back too, but that's another story entirely.

 

soo true... . if you want to continue being friends or more etc... you need to come to terms to above. some days you will show up in their radar, and some days you will NOT show. when they feel a need, they will make contact, if YOU feel a need to talk to them, they might or might not contact you back, certainly not to help you (in my experience)...

[lemon flower]

every situation is different, if your ex has a more or less safe environment, and some friends and family around him, it' s easier to let go.

my ex has worked himself into a situation in which he is alone, addicted and vulnerable, and I simply do not want him to go loose completely... . but I admit it is difficult for me too, the attraction is stiil there for me all the time too and I have to keep myself litterally physically away from him 

but I learned through the years (and through other similar relationships) a lot about myself and my boundaries, and I hope I can learn from him as well as he from me, though the real help can come out of theapy only, I just want to be there for him to encourage him... .

try to get him out of your mind, slowly, and keep the memory of the good things, and above all, try to learn from it for your next relationships 

[tabular]

triskina, I understand your concern about him. However, I am wondering about you: Have you thought about how this is going to affect you in the long run regarding finding someone else, getting into a new relationship, finally finding some happiness and stability? Don't you think that by staying with him in any shape or form you will keep on being loyal towards him and have some sort of emotional affair that will keep you from ever findings someone who actually deserves you and will appreciate you?

Sorry if these are very direct questions, but I was thinking about them all day today. Which is also why I replied to his emails again stating that there shall be no more emails (he claims he understands 'completely'… yet still tries to keep the conversation going with ridiculous and irrelevant questions. Hmmm).

[lemon flower]

hi tabular,

you are right, I have absolutely no idea how this will end, and I'm not even sure if this is the right thing for him too, but maybe our story isn't completed yet... .

anyway I promised myself that I will keep my heart open for other men, and I suppose if that happens he will be angry and will deny me completely, but until that happens there's no reason to cut the contact in this moment. especially because he's on the point to go to a psychotherapist (in order to do something about his alcoholism) and I wouldn't want to be the reason that he gives up on that again.

actually I wouldn't be surprised that he will be the first to have another girl, he's a very attractive and charming guy. Who knows, maybe i can become some kind of elderly sister, providing some advise... .  

If he abandons me I will let him go... .