On the right track (I think) :)

[CMJ]

So my last post was a bit of a bust. Which is ok, I don't think I was ready to properly talk about my current situation. I just needed to get some stuff off my chest to stop me ruminating.

However, I've continued reading posts on here and feel like I've gained more perspective.

To keep it as short as possible; my friend who exhibits BPD traits has blocked me on everything... .again (3rd time now I think). I can go in to further details if people need me to, but for now lets just say on the surface at least the issue seemed trivial, and could have been easily resolved by just talking. Instead I got the refusal to engage and being told I don't understand her... .well duh! It's kind of hard to know what you want when you won't speak, I'm not a mind reader! On top of that I'm autistic, I have a hard enough time reading neurotypical people let alone those with a PD.

Anyway, I read a few threads yesterday and a couple of posts from Grey Kitty made real sense to me.

Sometimes a pwBPD just goes away to get out of some of the emotions they are feeling with you and need some time to calm down, and will be better later. Letting them have this space is the best thing to do. Sometimes they get over the feelings but forget to come back, so a friendly "touch" which just lets them know you are friendly and available can be helpful at that point. I'll also say that the "punitive" silent treatment is a completely different animal--it says the same nothing in a very different way!

My advice for the silent treatment is to occasionally reach out with a friendly "touch" in a way that reminds the person that you are there, you appreciate them, and you won't bite, or yell at them should they be ready to talk to you.

I know my wife reached a point where she would withdraw (wisely!) because she knew that if she talked to me, she would behave badly in ways she'd regret... .  a very good time to be silent. Then she would sooth herself by getting busy doing something... .  and perhaps forget that she was avoiding me after whatever she was wound up about passed.

Thus the friendly reminder--she might well be ready to connect again but just not thinking about it.

I was also careful to only do this when I wasn't angry over the silent treatment, which did happen... .  especially since previously she was being silent as punishment instead of trying to protect our r/s from her out of control feelings/moods. I had my own baggage to deal with.

This really fits the our dynamic. Previous rifts have been bridged by leaving enough time and then reaching out in a friendly manner without mentioning the rift or the cause of it.
It fits the current situation too. After the initial "incident" we'd hardly spoken for a fortnight until I had to message her at work. Her replies seemed to indicate that there was no longer an issue, and she seemed oblivious to the time that had passed. Until I stupidly mentioned it felt lilke I'd been getting the silent treatment which caused further escalations.

So going back to Grey Kitty's posts, they made me realise that I'd been thinking about this all wrong. It's not a rejection of me, it's most likely something she needs to do to recharge/soothe/avoid a stressfull situation etc. Now I may not agree with the manner in which she does it, but I can understand it. The forgetting about avoiding people kind of fits too, she's never been very good at remaining in contact with people even when not avoiding them. She sometimes needs a nudge to remind her that they exist.

That said it's also possible that she does remember and is afraid to reach out or feels ashamed. She's said to me before that she knows she'll end up alone if she carries on acting this way, to me that shows a level of self awareness and regret regarding her choices, probably resulting from people asuming she's a insert insult here/crazy/selfish and just walking away. But she knows she put them in that position.

I don't want to be another person that gives up on her. She's my friend, when she's not being like this she's kind, funny and good company. She inspires me a lot and I'm immensely proud of her. There was a time I was terrified of losing her as friendships like this for me (being autustic) are extremely rare, but I know if things don't work out that I'll be just fine. I just need to let her have her NC and remind her I'm still here for her at some point in the future when I feel ready.

Does this make sense? It's nice to be able to talk to people who have been in similar situations as all my friends just say I'm better off without her, that she's selfish etc, but that just doesn't sit right with me. Being there doesn't mean I have to chase her or let her consume my life, it just means leaving the door unlocked. It feels like I'm on the right track.

I do have one question though, one of Grey Kitty's posts mentions punitive silent treatment being a very different beast. How do you tell the difference between punitive ST and a need for self healing when you don't live with the person? I imagine if you're sharing living space it's obvious from body language, facial expressions etc.

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Zoaron]

That's a very good question.  And also, how long is a good time to reach out to let them know you're still here during the silent treatment.   I've had experience where I've reached out too soon and it didn't go well.

[Gumiho]

I second that.

Zoaron - I just wanted to point you to this post. ^^
It led me to the conclusion that trying can't hurt. In my case, my seahorse brained gf's silence treatment is mainly about punishment though, still I gave it a shot, although limited, by email... I won't yet try calling (I'm still blocked anyways).
 I personally think the time is right to reach out when your guts are wrangled enough from waiting that you can't take it anymore. (no specific timeframe)

Grey Kitty - could you elaborate on the difference of a response to punitive silence treatment? - I wonder especially, since my response up to today been of apologetic nature. I refrained from doing so this time.

[Zoaron]

Maybe.  I may give it a couple more days.  I just don't want to open up the old wounds that keep forming after a rage happens after a reconnection.   I've always been old I wear my heart on my sleeve.  Maybe I can't put my emotions to the side when an episode happens.

[Triedmybest408]

Maybe.  I may give it a couple more days.  I just don't want to open up the old wounds that keep forming after a rage happens after a reconnection.   I've always been old I wear my heart on my sleeve.  Maybe I can't put my emotions to the side when an episode happens.

I don't have any advice for you as I am still new... .

but I can relate, I've been dealing with this for a few months because of an accusation that was made up by my partner. She raged so hard she definitely cut deep and I have a false sense of guilt im getting over... .I dread the next rage about the same issue... .you aren't alone

[Gumiho]

I wear my heart on my sleeve.

So do I.

Well, I've been trying to control my emotions ever since gf first raged... .I'm not a robot.
 The longest I've gone NC was 2 weeks and no matter, I had to listen to a huge rant everytime she reopened channels. The guilt coming with it was tremendous everytime. We living a LDR made things even more complicated. *sigh* ... though now that I know what I am dealing with (BPD) the guilt won't break me anymore I think.

[Zoaron]

I'm the same.  She lives a 2 hr drive from me. 

[CMJ]

Hi Zoaron, Hi Gumiho

Thanks for taking the time to reply, and I'm glad if my post has helped you at all.

I would say the best time to reach out would be when you're ok with not getting a reply. By that I mean if/when you're able to do it expectation free, if you do it with expectations you're sort of trying to control their behaviour and leaving yourself open to further hurt if they choose not to respond.

Regarding when the pwBPD is ready to hear from you, I'm afraid there's no magic number for that. It'll vary from person to person, and depend on what they were upset about in the first place. I'd concentrate on how you feel about reaching out yourself rather than trying to figure out how they'll react as you have no way of knowing.

It's hard but if you'd be upset by them ignoring you further I'd wait a bit longer. I miss my friend terribly, but I'm putting myself first at the moment. I can't imagine what it must be like to go through this when you're romantically involved with the person.

[Gumiho]

I can't imagine what it must be like to go through this when you're romantically involved with the person.

It can be hell on earth.
Well I reached out, I tried to call her today too~ as expected she still blocks me (it's been 7 days today). I miss her so much it's driving me nuts. I go from phases/states of blank staring/absentness, to bawling, frustration, anxiety, and upsetness, to physical expressions such as short of breathness, dizzyness, nauseousness and insomnia haze, rinse and repeat. It's the abandonment I can't deal with well, coupled with her infidelity to not invite me to her special event as the only person of her entire circle. On top of that I have a skin condition that is triggered to flare up by stress of this sort, and that's not the regular stress from university or work, but described psychoterror stress. Then again I am perfectly fine if I don't get on the silent treatment end, moreso I almost completely got cured when I met her, because of the peace of mind she gave me. But that ended with her major split in February, when the length of silent treatment suddenly skyrocketed. So bad that I have to go around in long sleeved clothes in high summer.
  The funny thing is, she knows of all this full well, but doesn't want to accept her ado at all, despite visible proof. She made me go through excruciating diets (still does) instead, bought heaps of creams and onguents for me, denying my 15 year old experience with this conditon. ... and still I have chosen to stay with her, she's the first who accepted me "unconditionally", oh irony. Just a glimpse on how it can be for a lover, I've been radically improving though in the past 4 weeks after starting to educate me on BPD ^^

So to speak, I'm on the right track too. I think.

[Zoaron]

Thank you CMJ.  I think that's probably the best advice I've heard.  I've been doing a lot of thinking lately and I've pretty much come to the conclusion that I need to do two things.  1) see to my health needs. Make sure that I don't let this throw me into a depressive state. And I can feel myself going there.  2) go support those who need me the most. Namely my kids.  My kids are my world and I might've let this love distract me from that fact.   I'm sure the reason I fell so hard for her in the first place was because she showed me so much passion and love.  She reminded me on some of the things that I was missing in my marriage. She made me felt desired and loved.  And now with her episodes, even if she isn't aware of it, she's making me feel worse than I did when I was with my ex-wife.  I need to get my heart back. That will take time, but it's time I do what I should be doing. 

[CMJ]

You're welcome Zoaron 

It's hard but sometimes you have to put yourself first. I'm guessing that a lot of people on here are the more selfless type and end up giving more of themselves than they should.

I've actually just messaged my friend. We work in the same building but in different parts, and just had a fire alarm. She came out of a fire exit a few metres in front of me as I was walking to the assembly point.
All I've said is she looks well and that I hope that's the case. I'm not asking her anything and made no mention of our fallout or how much time has passed. If she replies fine, if she doesn't that's fine too, it's not going to spoil the rest of my day, I'm still going to go get drunk with my sister and her fiancee later on 

[Zoaron]

We put so much of ourselves out there, sometimes we put too much out and it overwhelms us.  I know BPD gives you the fear of abandonment, but with the way she's been lately, I'm the one who feels abandoned. Even as a friend, she doesn't show interest in my day anymore and she gets annoyed when I'm showing interest in her day. And if I ask for advice, she says she doesn't care because it doesn't affect her at all.  It's like she's being exactly what she's describing me as being. Everything has to be about her. I really do feel for her cause she's been through so much just in the last two months and I haven't experienced a quarter of what she has in that two months.  But it's time for me to do what I need to. 

[Gumiho]

That's an interesting approach Zoaron, she mirrors my fear of abandonment right back at me. Because of me trying to make up for her splitting I tried even harder, she got annoyed and finally pulled the plug.

Why haven't I thought of that before?

[Zoaron]

She just tried calling my phone while I was away from it.

[Gumiho]

She just tried calling my phone while I was away from it.

Heavenly timing . Hope she doesn't block you.

[Zoaron]

Yeah.  Quite the timing. In the middle of my thoughts thinking about the message I want to send her and then I see that notification once I get back to my phone.  I have to admit I broke down a bit when I saw the notification.  And yet too nervous to follow up on the call.

[Gumiho]

Forming a message too >_<
Hope it will convince her.

[Zoaron]

Forming a message too >_<
Hope it will convince her.

I wish you lots of luck.

I'm in the process of chatting with mine right now.   She sent me a message after that phone call and it made me break down. 

[Gumiho]

Thanks~ I broke down too. But I aged, not 6 anymore, she said I'm 15. (coz of bawling)

[Zoaron]

Thanks~ I broke down too. But I aged, not 6 anymore, she said I'm 15. (coz of bawling)

You're aging quite well, I would say.

[CMJ]

I actually had a message from my friend yesterday 
We've shared a few messages since, I think we'll be alright. Currently taking it slow though.

[Zoaron]

I actually had a message from my friend yesterday 
We've shared a few messages since, I think we'll be alright. Currently taking it slow though.

Good for you.  I hope things turn out for you.

I think I just warded off another trigger tonight. I'll know for sure when I say good morning to her as one time when I did this,  she started raging first thing in the morning.

[CMJ]

Good for you.  I hope things turn out for you.

I think I just warded off another trigger tonight. I'll know for sure when I say good morning to her as one time when I did this,  she started raging first thing in the morning.

Thanks,

I'm a bit confused by our interactions so far though.
It was her birthday while she was NC. Months before I'd asked an artist friend to paint a picture for her as a birthday present. The artist friend is enduring a rough patch at the moment so it's still not ready, so I explained I hadn't forgotten, it's just not ready yet. She told me that I didn't have to get her anything because of how she's been with me. So she acknowledged that her behaviour towards me hasn't been great (at least that's how I read it).

Now, we've been here before. The first time she blocked me, she blocked me again after 3 days when we reconnected because I went in to full on Wow thank god she's back mode and jumped back in with two feet. This time round I was more wary, I answered any questions she asked but asked none of my own and volunteered little information otherwise. She picked up on this and said it's fine if I don't want to talk to her (further acknowledgement of not so great treatment). I do want to talk to her, I just think it's better to maintain a temporary distance for a bit for my protection. I didn't say this, I just said I know I haven't been that forthcoming, but I'm glad we've talked and I needed a bit of time. I then said goodnight and she replied with the same.

I got thinking today that maybe I was being a bit unfair, after all I did message her first. Maybe it's a little selfish to reach out and then hold back when she responded. So I messaged her earlier telling her that's what I thought, that of course I had lots of questions about how she's been, how her family are, if she's done anything interesting etc, but the most important question was if she's doing ok.

She responded with "Were you really that upset with me that you felt you couldn't ask me things?"

I replied "No, not upset, more like wary or guarded. But I was being silly".

She's read the message but hasn't replied yet (about 3 hours ago currently).

So yesterday we've gone from her saying 2 things that acknowledged that my treatment by her hasn't been great (without actually saying it directly), to seemingly being annoyed or upset that said poor treatment has influenced our interactions a little since her return.

Thoughts?

[Zoaron]

I replied "No, not upset, more like wary or guarded. But I was being silly".

She's read the message but hasn't replied yet (about 3 hours ago currently).

So yesterday we've gone from her saying 2 things that acknowledged that my treatment by her hasn't been great (without actually saying it directly), to seemingly being annoyed or upset that said poor treatment has influenced our interactions a little since her return.

Thoughts?

She's feeling the shame that a lot of ppl with BPD have, and it sounds like she doesn't want to voice that shame, which is understandable to anyone that feels shame.  The big thing here I think is to not push things right now, but to assure her that you're still there for her and that you care for her.

Here's a little update on my situation.  She didn't rage the next morning which I'm surprised about, but I've been an emotional wreck all day.  And songs on her playlist are torturing her now cause the first song that plays on her list when she starts it has been one of a few songs that has meant so much to both of us while we were together.  Music was humongous in our relationship.  I'm hoping it'll bring her back.

[CMJ]

She's feeling the shame that a lot of ppl with BPD have, and it sounds like she doesn't want to voice that shame, which is understandable to anyone that feels shame.  The big thing here I think is to not push things right now, but to assure her that you're still there for her and that you care for her.

She responded positively this morning, so we're all good at the moment.

Here's a little update on my situation.  She didn't rage the next morning which I'm surprised about, but I've been an emotional wreck all day.  And songs on her playlist are torturing her now cause the first song that plays on her list when she starts it has been one of a few songs that has meant so much to both of us while we were together.  Music was humongous in our relationship.  I'm hoping it'll bring her back.

I'm glad she didn't rage at you.
I know it's easier said than done, but it really does help if you can acknowledge that none of it is personal. It's not about you at all, they way they behave is all about meeting their needs, we're just collateral damage so to speak.

[Zoaron]

She responded positively this morning, so we're all good at the moment.

Congratulations.  If she's comfortable enough to talk about the BPD when she's not triggered, it'd be a good time to discuss it if you're able to.

I'm glad she didn't rage at you.
I know it's easier said than done, but it really does help if you can acknowledge that none of it is personal. It's not about you at all, they way they behave is all about meeting their needs, we're just collateral damage so to speak.

That is true.  I'm an emotional person by nature so it's difficult for me to not take it to heart.  But, if you've read my thread at all, I've just had a major update today.

[CMJ]

Congratulations.  If she's comfortable enough to talk about the BPD when she's not triggered, it'd be a good time to discuss it if you're able to.

Problem is I don't know if she definitely is BPD, or just has some traits (splitting, impulsiveness, object constancy issues, seeming lack of empathy, avoiding responsibility for her actions). She was diagnosed as Bipolar while we weren't talking and I know that BPD is sometimes misdiagnosed as Bipolar so we'll just have to see how we go.

That is true.  I'm an emotional person by nature so it's difficult for me to not take it to heart.  But, if you've read my thread at all, I've just had a major update today.

I've just read. Fantastic news! Hope it all goes well for you both