I'm at the point of trying to cut ties now with my daughter.

[LouiseC]

I have reached the point at which I am unable to bounce back.

For a while she has manipulated me, my husband and her husband to get what she wants. And of course, many of you know that although our children are convinced they know better, this will often leave them in a mess.

I think she is lying about taking her tablets. I think she has stopped looking after my granddaughter. Her husband who is very young, as she is, has already once had a breakdown and they are working through it. But he has turned on me and speaks to me disrespectfully.

I'm hurt, angry, sad, grieving. I can't validate her feelings any longer. For me and I am sure many others, it is like saying- of course you can emotionally hit me, keep hitting me again and again, I'm here for you to emotionally abuse me over and over. And it has been since she was a child and now she is 20. And it is getting worse.

She was bullied and sexually attacked. She was cared for by my husband and I, believed, understood, considered and never shamed. She blames me for many things. I have taken it. I cannot anymore take it.

I am over a barrel because I want to care for my grandchild as much as I can. I am in position to help. But while she turn them against me too and what will that do to me?

I have other children, so I'm in a fortunate position to know that what she says about me isn't true. But I have reached my limit and feel so sad about it.

I've begun to cut off my thoughts, fond memories and love of her. I've begun to blur out the moments when I think talking about her or making plans to see her and to do good things for her and with her. I am in my 50's now and I have to make confident and considered choices to make the rest of my life as good as it can be. I've paid my dues to this illness. I've slept in hospitals, I've played cat and mouse trying to keep her alive, I've given her hope and things to look forward to. And she has just gone too far now, she pushed me to my limit.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[EllieC]

You have my complete support. I am in exactly the same spot although no grandchildren. I just can’t validate any more. The most I can do is remain silent. I have read your post and you have done and are doing everything that is recommended. You are in your 50’s, you have other children and a life. Live it! That’s what I am trying to do. I like your phrase that you have paid your dues to this illness. It is true! Stay strong, thinking of you.

[LouiseC]

Thank you Ellie. It hasn't been an easy thought to even have

[Flossy]

I was at that stage 4-5 years ago as well. Now I am at the stage of being adamant that I would not have her back in my life if she ever approached me.

I cant write a lot today because I dont have any spirit left in me but wanted you to know it's a good idea. It's a reasonable, sensible thought, though horrific as a mother.

Just a bit of info. Mine is 52 and cut off contact 15 years ago. I have tried everything. Enough already. Like you I want to live the rest of my life without the BS and drama. It's just not worth it. My adrenal gland is burned out and my spirit does not want to take any more.

FK it. No! Not doing it...and I am a INFJ Nurturer. So, that took some doing.

You will be just fine. Anyone who has an opinion can take over where you left off ...or STFU.

Sorry for swearing but it helps.

PS I love learning how to make myself happy. I just love my life now almost every day. A simple lovely life. My heart goes out to you.

[Flossy]

PS I just spent an hour studying a site called Fragrantica, researching my favourite perfumes and looking for new ones. A totally joyful way to spend an hour and it filled my heart up. Quite a new habit like others I have developed in the past couple of years, since I said No More.

This is what life is meant to be like.

I will no longer have anyone in my life who refuses to grow up.

That is the bottom line for me. I no longer care why. It's a choice. Not to grow up. They can choose to take 20 years on self-education, they choose to choose what they will learn. They do not want to grow up. I dont care why any more. I cared so much it broke me. It's BS.

I go back in my mind to The Clan of the Cave Bears. Where the girl leaves the cave and her mother and family. We are not obliged to keep another human in our lives if they are abusive, disregulated & determined to continue to live like a brat. We are meant to live as in a village. If someone acted like they act in a village they would be driven from the village until they starved and begged to return, then they would be beaten if they did it again. Not nurtured, not accepted, not supported. They would be banished.

You know what, I can tell a BPD female now from a. mile off. They have a
certain facial expression they get. It is whimsical, cute, adorable and a deliberate look of "I'm gonna get what I want".

Watch Cate Blanchett in "Blue Jasmine". It is validating and sickening at the same time. This is what they are. Sorry if this offends some who are still trying. Forgive me, I am not.

[PearlsBefore]

They have a certain facial expression they get. It is whimsical, cute, adorable and a deliberate look of "I'm gonna get what I want".

I got through the whole post not agreeing strongly enough to plan to comment, but this excerpt caught my attention - because that's the most accurate description I've read on this site about facial expression .

[Brokenn]

You probably won’t ever read this but I am in the same position but no grandchildren. My son has driven me into complete brokenness and like you I just want out . I always feel like it is taboo to truly not want contact with your child anymore but I feel the same way . My son is gone . He has been gone a long time. I will never look at the baby photos again. The pain is intolerable to even think of who he was before he allowed this disorder take over his life . His refusal to get help or take meds or go to any type of therapy is so sad. I am 59 and all I ever think about is this horrible situation. My husband and I argue constantly over what we should and should not do . The validating with my son does not even help . He just tells me to shut up don’t I don’t even bother anymore . I hope that things are better for you

[PearlsBefore]

Hey Brokenn, just wanted to let you know you're not screaming into a void - I'm not the OP, but I did read your bit and I definitely sympathise even though the situation is not identical to my own. It does remind me of something I heard in a BPD-caretaking class though, about how two of the under-recognised struggles caretakers face is that they're sometimes grieving for someone who's not yet dead and sometimes have pre-emptive PTSD in a manner of speaking. Your son isn't dead, thank God, but it's understandable that you see it as you do.

To be honest my primary dBPD spent years telling me it's demonic possession and I ridiculed her and said she's just making excuses for doing objectively bad things and allowing herself to be ruled by objectively bad motivations - then she said it was BPD and went to doctors who confirmed it and I read more about it, but still the niggling doubt in the back of my mind wondered if we weren't just pinning a diagnosis on people who do objectively bad things and allow themselves to be ruled by objectively bad motivations. Then she switched back and forth between the terms - and though I'm smarter now than I was when young so I no longer SAY the part about doing "bad" things and "bad" motivations...it still comes to mind. What a devastating loss, to see someone about whom you care so thoroughly debased and given over to ill effect, ill intent, and illness.

[LouiseC]

Thank you to everyone who has replied to this.

Silly me forgave and was hopeful again. And now I'm here, ten minutes before I work, with my grandchild here for another week.

My daughter has hurled disrespect and abuse at me again and flounced out with her husband. I am tortured. Truly. And truly manipulated and torn.

[MammaP]

I’m so sad. Although we’ve been struggling with my son for about 30 yrs it seems to have escalated recently to the worst possible place. He’s out of my life at the moment and I don’t miss the drama. I’m 64 yrs old and this is starting to affect me physically. I was crying so hard the other day I got an instant headache and thought my brain was going to explode. But I am grieving the little boy and the dreams I had for him. How do you learn to let go?

[LouiseC]

MammaP

I haven't learnt to let go. There are too many strands that are preventing me right now. And I'm still falling for things in an optimistic way. I guess, as of now, I still haven't learnt.

It would be good if there was anyone out there to tell us as many success stories as there are, our failures to manage and help?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Flossy]

I heard in a BPD-caretaking class though, about how two of the under-recognised struggles caretakers face is that they're sometimes grieving for someone who's not yet dead and sometimes have pre-emptive PTSD in a manner of speaking. Your son isn't dead, thank God, but it's understandable that you see it as you do.

...My son is dead. After struggling with the lack of support in my grief from my family I foolishly told my daughter I wanted to die. Her fury at having to call me the next day to make sure I was still alive is the reason she gave for cutting me out of her life...That total lack of empathy is what is present in Narcissists & Psychopaths.(personality disorders not mental illness)...

I ridiculed her and said she's just making excuses for doing objectively bad things and allowing herself to be ruled by objectively bad motivations - then she said it was BPD and went to doctors who confirmed it and I read more about it, but still the niggling doubt in the back of my mind wondered if we weren't just pinning a diagnosis on people who do objectively bad things and allow themselves to be ruled by objectively bad motivations. ...What makes me doubt it is a "condition" but a choice is that they are capable of not behaving in this manner, actually hiding all traits when they become involved in a new romantic relationship or with someone they need. This tells me they have control and can choose whether the rages occur. Mentally ill people cannot choose whether to hide their rages depending on their target audience.

[AcheyMom]

"MammaP

I haven't learnt to let go. There are too many strands that are preventing me right now. And I'm still falling for things in an optimistic way. I guess, as of now, I still haven't learnt.

It would be good if there was anyone out there to tell us as many success stories as there are, our failures to manage and help?"
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This!

This is exactly what I'm thinking.  Does this ever get better without us having to put in massive effort and tip toe around their distorted perception of everything?  If not, I feel like packing up and leaving town because I am so worn out from about 20 years of abuse, manipulation, lies and character assassinations. 

[Leaf56]

The answer is no, it does not. I posed the same question here a couple years ago and came to this conclusion after much reading here and seeing that it does in fact never change. I come back periodically to read and remind myself of this fact. Hi Flossy

[LouiseC]

HI Everyone,

First of all, I can feel your pain. And it's hard for anyone to understand how we feel.

What's good for people to think about if they find these posts quite horrifying is- we post here anonymously because these are our feelings we are unable to share outwardly most of the time. It's awful that we feel this way and no one feels worse about those dreadful thoughts no parent wants but us.

I'm not at the stage of giving up yet. I thought I was, but I'm keeping on trying. And I can see that it doesn't get better but right now, I have to believe that.

I"m in a state of constant repair. It reminds me of films about vampires or superheroes whose skin repairs quickly from injury. But I've stopped being able to repair quickly now and the wounds are sticking around.

It's been an awful week followed by a good week. And she is really, and like I mean really trying. She is examining her behaviour, she is trying all the tools to lift her mood. It's good the last few days. So I'm going to try and live in that moment now.

I'm massively put upon. But something in me won't stop. And that isn't to say I will continue in this way. It isn't to say I won't stop punishing myself at some point. But maybe I can try, in vain or not.

Other thing is- I can face up to the probability that I am going to get to a point where enough is enough. And I really find comfort in other people's bravery to say they've had it and will take no more. 

[AcheyMom]

You should do exactly what makes you comfortable. It’s a rollercoaster ride to put it mildly. I also feel like BPD is maybe a spectrum disorder. Some more severe cases than others.  Psychiatrists have told me that people can get a litter better or less difficult as they get older.  In my daughter’s case she seems to be getting worse.  But then there are drugs involved as well as Bipolar.  No two stories are the same.  Sometimes my daughter is unsafe to be around and needs to be held in a Psych ward for her safety and the safety of others.  There are so many variables, and we all have different stories.  I hope your daughter shows continued determination to help herself make healthier choices.  I’ll never give up hope for my own.

[Flossy]

The answer is no, it does not. I posed the same question here a couple years ago and came to this conclusion after much reading here and seeing that it does in fact never change. I come back periodically to read and remind myself of this fact. Hi Flossy

Hi Leaf  I do the same. Come back to read and remind myself of the fact. I must admit that I also come back to check if any others have come to that conclusion.
After our talks, I went through a stage of imagining what I would do if I saw her or if she asked to have each other back in our lives. At first, I felt I
would feel combative and want her to know what she had done. Want her to understand the impact.
That lasted for about a year. Then I wanted to say things like "What has changed?" or "Why would I want to do that?". Now I would feel that I just dont want to. Because I know that it wouldn't work, I know nothing has changed and I know she would do it again. I also know I would live every day with the fear of her doing it again and my nervous system would be slammed again.
Now I find joy in the simplest of things. I spend my time before sleep studying Perfumes and the categories of them, the base notes and dry downs. Mine are white flowers, aldehydes, amber, powdery, mossy, woody. It sure bears analysing her psyche and pondering "what will work".
It's a joy and I dont want her back and I barely care. A very faint care. Not a care that inspires action or acceptance if offered her back. I am happy!

[Flossy]

I"m in a state of constant repair. It reminds me of films about vampires or superheroes whose skin repairs quickly from injury. But I've stopped being able to repair quickly now and the wounds are sticking around.
 

That is the bottom line. The end result. Something it would be good to preempt and avoid. But as mothers, it is not possible. These injuries to our nervous system results in PTSD, panic attacks and/or daily anxiety and loss of ability to get to sleep or stay asleep.

Then there is binge eating or lack of eating, depression, loss of ability to feel joy, suicidal ideation, hopelessness...and it goes on. I am unsure if the acceptance of it never changing can happen before these damages gather together, and form global damage instead of experiencing one at a time.

The damages become wounds, then scars, unable to be fixed. Managed at best. As PTSD, increased startle response, hyper vigilance, weight gain, panic attacks, a constance sense of dread.

I left it for too long but I dont think it's possible to reach the point of not wanting them in our lives before the damage becomes permanent. The mother factor is the reason.

I have undone a lot of mine in the two years since this concept entered my mind. I cant say I decided, I just realised. Since then, I have lost 20kgs, began to eat foods I really love, dressed nicely, played with hairstyles, worn makeup, made the most beautiful garden, loved my dog to pieces and had adventures with him, gone to Thailand to get my boobs fixed(I turn 70 next month)all on my own. I sat in a restaurant sipping a champagne and chatting to the Ladyboy server, waiting to meet the other women in the Cosmetic surgery group, on the other side of the planet...just like a grownup without a care in the world on an adventure.

I am so grateful for the chance to find some ordinary life and some joy and adventure finally just for me without fear of WTF is going to happen next.

Guess what, I just might be off to Bali in October to have a face tweek. I dont even care if it sounds selfish to others. I am looking after me for the first time in my life. PS I also bought myself five new perfumes in the past few weeks. Coco Mademoiselle, Vera Wang, Emeraude, Organza, Cabochard. My whole adult life I only indulged in one bottle of perfume at a time.  

I still cant go to sleep without help, but now I only need an antihistamine or a quarter of a diazepam and I take it without guilt.

[AcheyMom]

You are where I hope to be someday.  I developed panic disorder when my daughter became a teenager.  So many unexpected phone calls at work, things happening that didn’t make any sense, false accusations, the list goes on.  I never knew what would come next.  At 20 there was a motorcycle accident.  She was on the back of her reckless impaired boyfriend’s bike and he plowed  into a 16 yr old boy who died instantly.  The boyfriend died 10 days later. My daughter was in shock with a concussion but managed to walk away.  I’ve never heard her say she feels badly for the boy.  Perhaps she does but I never heard it.  My daughter’s mental health was pretty bad after that and her drug use increased.  She came home to recover but took off as soon as she was healthy enough.  Since then my nervous system has been stuck in fight or flight and I subsequently developed Fibromyalgia.  Now I live with incredible pain through my body, sleep issues and cognitive issues.  I basically broke my nervous system to the point of no return.  I’ve put my life on hold so many times to help her pick up the pieces of her life but I can’t do it any longer. I hope to get where you are one day!  Good for you

[kells76]

Hi LouiseC;

HI Everyone,

First of all, I can feel your pain. And it's hard for anyone to understand how we feel.

What's good for people to think about if they find these posts quite horrifying is- we post here anonymously because these are our feelings we are unable to share outwardly most of the time. It's awful that we feel this way and no one feels worse about those dreadful thoughts no parent wants but us.

I'm not at the stage of giving up yet. I thought I was, but I'm keeping on trying. And I can see that it doesn't get better but right now, I have to believe that.

I"m in a state of constant repair. It reminds me of films about vampires or superheroes whose skin repairs quickly from injury. But I've stopped being able to repair quickly now and the wounds are sticking around.

It's been an awful week followed by a good week. And she is really, and like I mean really trying. She is examining her behaviour, she is trying all the tools to lift her mood. It's good the last few days. So I'm going to try and live in that moment now.

I'm massively put upon. But something in me won't stop. And that isn't to say I will continue in this way. It isn't to say I won't stop punishing myself at some point. But maybe I can try, in vain or not.

Other thing is- I can face up to the probability that I am going to get to a point where enough is enough. And I really find comfort in other people's bravery to say they've had it and will take no more.

Where you're at in your own journey makes a lot of sense. You can step back and say, "you know what, at some point, I might decide to pause contact with my child, and I recognize and respect that I am not there right now".

I think in many relationships with pwBPD, we want to know that we have truly done everything that we felt like we could to preserve the relationship. You might consider listing out what you would want to have tried before pausing contact. For example, some parents might want to know that they have offered to go to counseling with their child wBPD, or might want to offer to pay for treatment, or want to try to have one more heart-to-heart talk. There are many things that we can think of that we would want to do before saying "I have done all I can".

And a way to look at it can be -- if/when the time comes where you decide to stop being in contact with your child -- that it doesn't have to be the last chapter in your story or in her story. It might be a chapter where you step back to regroup yourself and to get yourself in a healthy, well, stable position. It might last a very long time, or not. It might be important to remember that "no contact" isn't some kind of "once NC, always NC" rule. It can be for a season, or as long as you need for your own wellbeing.

...

Can you remind me, do you have a counselor or therapist right now?

[Tulipps]

Kells -
I can only speak for myself and know what is best for me and my personal experience. That is what I am sharing and that's the reason I'm here... to read what others have shared and gain validation/support from others in similar situations. That is not to say I discount what is shared by others with different experiences or philosophies. There are insights to be gained from every perspective! To me it's no different that any support group (Alanon etc)... take what you need and leave the rest.
In my case, it was my counsellor who first suggested I "step back" for a period of time. It was the only thing I could do for my own mental health, my relationship health and my financial viability. I presented 3 options to my daughter (before going NC): (A)supported counselling for her, (B)mediation with me, or (C)a final cash injection to be accompanied NC. (At the time, she was demanding THOUSANDS of dollars). She didn't like the options and continued to demand the $$$$ AND counselling AND mediation. After a few days of hateful messages and calls, she chose option C. 
Frankly, I don't know if or when I'll be open to a relationship. It might happen. It might not. I will not go back to the destructive cyclone.
It may be typical for BPD sufferers to have one main target, but that is hard to reconcile when the  emotional dysregulation is managed with most everyone else. The gory details have been shared over the years on this site.   
All I can do is remain hopeful for her. Who knows - perhaps they'll be a sign at some point in the future when I'll know it is safe for me to re-engage. I'm not consumed by this hope, nor am I holding my breath. 

I hope this board remains open and inclusive to all points of view.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Flossy]

Since then my nervous system has been stuck in fight or flight and I subsequently developed Fibromyalgia.  Now I live with incredible pain through my body, sleep issues and cognitive issues.  I basically broke my nervous system to the point of no return.

I forgot Fibromyalgia. It started off feeling like I had shards of glass in my muscles, then became like a toothache in my bones.

I developed that at the same time as the PTSD.

Please discuss with your doctor the option of Desvenlaflaxine. It stops the Fibro pain for me. I take 200mg AM. I have had 2-3 small flare-ups in 15 years when extra stress came into my life but most it completely controls the Fibro pain and the Panic Attacks. For the times when I get a flareup I asked my doctor for Tramadol which is a painkiller but also increases serotonin. Never increase or decrease any of these prescribed medications without talking to your doctor. Start to keep records of your health just as a Nurse would and share them with your doctor.

I have found that SSRI's do not work on my condition. Desvenlaflaxine is an SNRI which works on adrenaline and noradrenaline. I will never go off it.

It's worth asking your treating doctor to have a trial on this medication. It changed my life for the better. Keep a good track of your feelings and physical symptoms to give to your doctor at each visit. That is essential.

[kells76]

Hi Tulipps;

I can only speak for myself and know what is best for me and my personal experience. That is what I am sharing and that's the reason I'm here... to read what others have shared and gain validation/support from others in similar situations. That is not to say I discount what is shared by others with different experiences or philosophies. There are insights to be gained from every perspective! To me it's no different that any support group (Alanon etc)... take what you need and leave the rest.

You've highlighted one of the strengths of this board -- reading through the threads here on "child with BPD", we find parents making choices ranging from housing their adult child, through getting ROs against an adult child, through extensive support (like getting a child into and participating in a RTC), through "cutting the rope" to save their own sanity. So many parenting choices, when there's a child wBPD involved, might look "mean", or "enabling", or whatever judgmental adjective an outsider might apply, to someone who hasn't experienced having a pwBPD in their lives.

Like you're saying, here is a place where parents can share what they've been through and choose whatever path they need to, without judgment. It's not that the parents who get their kids into RTCs are "doing it better" or the parents who follow through with NC are "stronger". Each option is about that unique family situation, and if it doesn't apply to one member, there's a lot of freedom here to pass it over and look at other perspectives.

It's kind of amazing to have a home for sharing those different experiences and to know that you can say "here's what we did" and not have it be like "well, this is a RTC-only board".

100% a good approach here, and on all the forums here, is what you brought up -- pass by what doesn't apply, and dig in to the rest.

Circling back to the OP, I think many of us here would encourage OP to feel empowered in any path forward she chooses, no matter what anyone else is or isn't doing. Like the original post mentioned:

I am in my 50's now and I have to make confident and considered choices to make the rest of my life as good as it can be.

 

Hope you and yours are doing okay. Feel free to start a thread on what's going on in your life, if you'd like -- we'd love to hear any updates.

-kells76

[LouiseC]

To everyone-

I feel very privileged to be in a position to be candid and to have so many people feel the same as I do and have many years more experience than me.

The saddest thing for me, is going to be if and/or when, and I imagine it will be when, she turns on me again. But she has been so destructive this time, that in an instance she was going to lose everything- me, her husband and her child. And 50% of me believes that she has turned things around for good and the other 50% believes that this is short term changes to keep everyone on board.

I always believe we reached a turning point. But then it builds again. Yes I've had short term memory problems because of this, I've had paranoia and physical pain. Ringing in my ears, night terrors, and a binge drinking problem though I haven't had a drink in a long time now. Weight gain as well.

And I don't know whether anyone else has experience of this, but she is very much like my sister, and even in her 60's is still blaming the world and never using self reflection. And I watched her put my mum through hell.