New user, unsure where to go in my marriage

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I've come across an article that seems appropriate for this thread that discusses the similarities and differences between BPD & Autism:

BPD vs Autism:  How to Spot the Difference

https://neurodivergentinsights.com/misdiagnosis-monday/boderline-personality-disorder-or-autism

[SaltyDawg]

I've come across an article that seems appropriate for this thread that discusses the similarities and differences between BPD & Autism:

BPD vs Autism:  How to Spot the Difference

https://neurodivergentinsights.com/misdiagnosis-monday/boderline-personality-disorder-or-autism

[livednlearned]

it absolutely does help in finding words to try and describe what I'm seeing/experiencing.

There is also something called rejection sensitivity dysphoria or something equivalent. And it's not out of the question that people can have both BPD and ASD, especially given the amount of rejection and bullying someone on the spectrum can be exposed to. I'm always amazed when people say there is less empathy among people on the spectrum because it seems to me that it's people NOT on the spectrum who do more bullying.

[zondolit]

Welcome, Stuck2023,

A number of times you mention that you feel something but cannot put your finger on why you feel this way: what you are feeling doesn't completely make sense to you.

What I have learned is this is exactly when I should listen to myself most: when I feel something that doesn't make sense.

Your gut is telling you something important. Instead of trying to figure it out in your head, just acknowledge that for whatever reason this is how you feel. At least for us nons, emotion is wisdom. Eventually you will likely discover why you felt that way, but in the moment, you do not need a reason or rationale to say, Hm, that made me feel bad or lonely or uncomfortable or whatever.

*

I once read that while individual therapy can feel like a nice warm bath, couples counseling is like being dropped into ice water. BPD aside, I imagine most people in most marriages find couples counseling at least sometimes uncomfortable and unsettling. I suspect that many marriage counselors presented with a BPD-non couple will know they have to provide validation to both (and validation to one person can be somewhat invalidating to the other person) but more validation to the person with BPD. Also, the fact that your partner seems to think he's "winning" at couples counseling sounds like a very BPD-like response, making marriage and counseling both into something adversarial.

[Sara Waters]

...honestly I need those sessions to be able to speak to my spouse safely.
This is a light bulb quote for me.

Thank you @Stuck2023 & @livethequestions. You have beautifully articulated many of my thoughts and feelings and have provided validation for me. Especially the carer and teenager behavior. However my BPD husband doesn't shutdown (unless you count passing out drunk which is really the only break I get). He rages and destroys things. Utilizing therapy as a safe space gives me some hope.  Please keep posting. You provide tremendous value.

[ForeverDad]

He rages and destroys things.

Many states identify destruction of your property or marital property as Domestic Violence (DV) or criminal mischief, etc.  Check your local options.  Whether the police and courts will do something notable to address it is a valid question, but if you don't report it then you'll never learn to what extent they will protect you.

I myself failed to report the times my then-spouse destroyed keyboards, cut the wires on mice and even once threw into the garage and bent up our son's computer.  I would buy keyboards and mice in bulk, well at least a few at a time.

I didn't view it as substantial enough of a reason to call police and report it.  Not even when she accidentally cut my face (while in a rage).  My bad because her rants and rages kept getting worse over time and eventually I did call the police and I got a temp protection order while her Threat of DV case was pending.  That started the separation that led to our divorce.

[Stuck2023]

A number of times you mention that you feel something but cannot put your finger on why you feel this way: what you are feeling doesn't completely make sense to you.
What I have learned is this is exactly when I should listen to myself most: when I feel something that doesn't make sense.

Thank you. You're probably very right. I'm going to try and remember this.

I suspect that many marriage counselors presented with a BPD-non couple will know they have to provide validation to both (and validation to one person can be somewhat invalidating to the other person) but more validation to the person with BPD. Also, the fact that your partner seems to think he's "winning" at couples counseling sounds like a very BPD-like response, making marriage and counseling both into something adversarial.

Bless our counsellor, she seems really observant so far. She is making a point of validating me every so often, but yes definitely more on the him side. Interestingly I actually countered him last session in a manner that he didn't seem to know how to handle. He was very emotional and relating how he feels XYZ about me doing certain things but doesn't tell me and complain and I said "Yes you do tell me, every time we disagree and have an argument you tell me. That's how I know about it to bring it up.". For a split second you could have heard a pin drop in that room. He was not in a good mood leaving that particular session. I don't want marriage counselling to be adversarial like this but I'm not standing for blatant PR spin on his part.

Thank you @Stuck2023 & @livethequestions. You have beautifully articulated many of my thoughts and feelings and have provided validation for me. Especially the carer and teenager behavior. However my BPD husband doesn't shutdown (unless you count passing out drunk which is really the only break I get). He rages and destroys things. Utilizing therapy as a safe space gives me some hope.  Please keep posting. You provide tremendous value.

That sounds so rough Sara. As ForeverDad said, please consider the laws of your area and your safety.

I do wonder about how a BPD person relates to hard boundaries. How they differentiate a hard boundary from a soft one. Like once my husband locked me out of the house while I was at my moms after a fight. Left the key in the door so I had to ring the doorbell to get let in. He said he wanted to be sure he heard when I got back as he had abandonment issues. I absolutely lost it with him - told him if I ever get intentionally locked out of my own house again the next time he'd see me was with a locksmith and a moving van. He's never done it again since. Softer boundaries though are treated totally different; things that make me upset for example he'll do over them over and over (relatively, over days) until he realizes he's reaching my breaking point, then back down for a while to 'reset my counter' as it were.

[Sara Waters]

Boundaries, soft or hard, are a huge struggle for me. If I tell his calm & sober side something that bothers me or something I love, his drunk rage side will attack that first. I can't expose any weaknesses. I'm hoping once I start counseling I'll find the best way to approach this.  Your counseling posts are very helpful. Thanks again for your honesty and support.

[Stuck2023]

Boundaries, soft or hard, are a huge struggle for me. If I tell his calm & sober side something that bothers me or something I love, his drunk rage side will attack that first. I can't expose any weaknesses. I'm hoping once I start counseling I'll find the best way to approach this.  Your counseling posts are very helpful. Thanks again for your honesty and support.

I'm really glad it helps. I often feel a bit bad taking so much useful advice and reassurance from the group and not having much to give back at this point! I know though that I'm lucky and my husband isn't violent or raging almost at all. I think I saw it once and he hurt his hand punching a solid wood dresser and that was about it. The rage wasn't even directed at me at the time, just injustice of the world after a death in the family.

I understand how you say admitting that something bothers you makes him go for it first. Its the same here usually. I used to be able to brush it off as just a self defense mechanism but the longer it goes on the more I'm realizing how much it grates over time. This wearing down of my patience and understanding. As you say, you get to the point of not saying anything about what you want or don't want.

[livednlearned]

One of the reasons "hard" boundaries work is because we are in "parent" mode.

It's challenging in a relationship where we're supposed to be peers, to be partners. But emotionally, that is often not the case. Sometimes "parent" mode is what gets through, especially if they are in child mode (like tantrums).

My ex knew to never hit me. I was hit as a child and I made it clear that will never happen again in my life. However, ex found other ways to be abusive. He threw our dog. He locked me out of the house. He punched walls. He slammed doors in my face. He threw things. He hid my purse and phone. This is sometimes called environmental violence.

If you want them to observe a boundary, you have to uphold that boundary like you built it out of titanium. It will be you training them that this boundary is for real. There will be testing and pushback and other nonsense so strong boundaries don't erase that, at least in the beginning.

Being yelled at and wanting to stop it, there are boundaries that you can control. For example, you hold your hand up and say stop until it stops. Or you let them know in advance what you do when someone yells at you: Walk into the other room, leave the house, put on headphones, whatever you feel is in the realm of possible for you.

Every boundary must be carefully studied and constructed so that you always have a way to assert it, since you are the one controlling it. They can do the behavior all they want but you will do ____________ in response. Then you stick to it like it's the most important thing in the world to you. Even you cannot negotiate the boundary, otherwise they will think the boundary must be negotiable.

For me, I found it was much easier to assert non-verbal boundaries since that minimized the target and made them less likely to be disputed or tested.

None of this is easy.

[livethequestions]

Dropping in only to say, Stuck2023 and Sara Walters, thank you for your posts, as well. It's a complex feeling to be both sad AND relieved that other people are going through the same pain you are!

Thank goodness for good therapists; and hats off, especially, to marriage counselors who can handle a BPD/non-BPD dynamic, without losing the trust of either partner.

[Stuck2023]

Last session went out with a bang. uBPDh walked out upset right at the end. I finally decided to show how hurt I was at something he’d said and let myself get a little upset, and boom suddenly he’s super hurt and crying and saying “I knew that would upset you but I had to be honest”…. Counsellor is suggesting she maybe have an individual session with each of us next. I wish I could mind read and know what she thought of it all.

We had an evening of barely talking and I got upset-drunk for the first time in a long while. Not insensible just mildly unsteady on my feet. He practically tried to order me to bed like a child when I was just sat on my phone scrolling Facebook. And now we’re back to super helpful mode again where dishes were done and he’s cooked up the meal I planned to make us for the next few days already. But still explicitly not in a place to talk beyond the polite chit chat.

I know MC is hard and is supposed to take time. Does anyone have good experiences of it? Some sign to look for to see if it’s doing anything useful at all?

[drained1996]

I’ve seen MC work many times..also seen it fail.  When they work, it’s typically between two nonBPD’s.  I’ve been through therapy with 2 BPD partners, and while it can help one navigate a typically toxic situation in a better manner…it was still toxic in my cases,  I felt stuck…that’s what I deserved.  Until I began my own therapy alone.  I learned to love me again, to know I deserved better.  My journey was long in helping me understand why I would even be attracted/drawn to pwBPD.  Sifting through my own crap (family dynamics/dysfunction.  Lots of crying (pain coming out) lots of omg I can’t believe I couldn’t see that lightbulb moments…lots of sitting in my own feelings to understand them and see where they came from.  Therapy has helped better my life.  Therapy only helps those that want to help themselves from my experiences.  For those struggling in this thread…it does get better,.  The decision for a better life is our own to make.  There’s plenty of support here, as well as your own Therapist and you friend/family sphere.  Sharing is therapeutic…keep sharing here. Sorry for the rambling…been a minute since I’ve been around

[Stuck2023]

I’ve seen MC work many times..also seen it fail.  When they work, it’s typically between two nonBPD’s.  I’ve been through therapy with 2 BPD partners, and while it can help one navigate a typically toxic situation in a better manner…it was still toxic in my cases

Thank you Drained. It’s nice to hear other people’s experience. I don’t actually know anyone who’s done it or even seen it to be honest!

I dropped my individual therapy back to once a month to help balance costs but I had it the other day. He pointed out that it sounded like I’ve already reached a decision on the marriage, and I think he’s right…I’m just not sure I’m ready to pull that trigger yet…

Right now we’re stable. Not necessarily happy but not falling off a metaphorical cliff, coping. I don’t want that forever but I can deal for a good while. Theres no abuse or safety issues. I don’t think it’s catastrophizing to say that my life will blow up if I break things off - emotionally and logistically it will be a mess for a good while. He would have good odds of leaving his training course he’s on too which is great for his career and I don’t want to screw up his career.
The other part of me thinks that if I don’t though, he’ll think we’re back to being fine and it will be a harder pill to swallow later down the line.

It’s like looking down into a swirling black ocean and knowing I have to jump at some point but I really really don’t want to and not being able to see when would be the best timing to have the least roughest ride. Half hoping someone will push me so I don’t have to make the decision to jump myself…

[livednlearned]

If the marriage is failing and you aren't ready to go just yet, could you use this in-between time to practice what life will look like when you leave?

Like you mentioned in an earlier post, could you go out more often and do things on your own? Do things you've always wanted to try.

It is challenging to leave a partner with BPD traits and it can be sort of all-consuming as you work through your own emotions plus the junk that comes with the legal parts.

When things quiet down, which can take a while, you'll be with yourself.

After I left and things kind of settled down, I felt relief, but other stuff too.

Figuring out who you are when you aren't in conflict or aren't taking care of someone can be a process. You can get started anytime 

[Stuck2023]

If the marriage is failing and you aren't ready to go just yet, could you use this in-between time to practice what life will look like when you leave?
…
Figuring out who you are when you aren't in conflict or aren't taking care of someone can be a process. You can get started anytime 

That sounds like an amazing idea    and also hearing it described as “not ready to go just yet” is so much nicer than what my brain was saying to myself, thank you!

It will be a massive change once it’s all over. All the future plans that were there just disappear and it’ll be sad but a lot of freedom again too I guess. Friends might be weird too, we share a lot of them and I can see that being awkward for a while. I should probably figure out how to make new ones now as I don’t think the drinking buddies route will work so well now I’m out of my 20s!

[drained1996]

I’ll speak for myself, the realization I needed to end the relationships hit me well before my ABILITY to end them.  My ability was significantly hindered by my own lack of self worth, as well as the fact I actually loved my BPD partners.  I learned I loved them for who I thought/wanted/wished them to be, which they could show at times…mirroring…such a genuinely seductive  trait and defensive mechanism commonly shared by those with BPD traits.  Their trait to guilt though was the one that crippled me mostly.  Boundaries became my friend…and lended to my ability to inch back towards validating my own self worth with healthier life experiences.  As livednlearned suggests, do that as you can fit it in your life.  Ultimately YOU are responsible for your own happiness.  Be kind to yourself, this is VERY hard stuff to deal with, we all took steps backwards even when we were looking forward. This community will be here for you.

[Stuck2023]

Where I am now in summary:

• I’ve narrowed down my major issues to 3 which I’ll attempt to address in marriage counselling but suspect it won’t go anywhere
• I’m very slowly attempting to expand my active go-and-do-things friendship group to include some non-shared friends
• I’ve decided I’m ok to stick it out until he at least finishes his training in about 10 months
• I’m not going to lie to him and say all is fine in that time, but I probably won’t kick off a break up unless he initiates it or pushes for a final decision

My brains a tornado of thoughts and emotions but I’m mentally filing things into some kind of order slowly. Discovered a hidden chunk of anger the other day that the husband is too nice a guy and therefore not making this easy for me to just go. Like if he would just go and have an affair or swing at me this would be a lot easier    sorry, dark humor showing through!

[Stuck2023]

I just want to scream right now. My head hurts, I feel nauseous, every muscle is tense and it nearly hurts to move. I've got a couple of hours to myself and I want to collapse but I'm supposed to be working from home.

Husband has been acting flirty and trying to rekindle feelings and closeness I just don't feel since absolutely nothing has been resolved of our issues. Its... awkward. And if I rebuff the advances I feel like I kicked a puppy or something for the upset and hurt looks. Stress kicked back in with his starting his training and I make one mistake the first morning and the whole first day is going to be awful and he's barely talking to me. Bills are going up and he's ready to cut all social life funds off to meet the shortfall rather than just take on like 1 day work a week and judging me for not being willing to do the same in cutting my lifelines.

Why? Why don't I just tell him its over already that I can't take any more? I've hardened myself enough to take all the rest of this     why can't I just take this last bit more?

[drained1996]

Severing a relationship is…difficult…it’s a cataclysmic move in life…so don’t beat yourself up for feeling overwhelmed.  Intellect seems to arrive in the correct place…sometimes well before emotions.  Appears you have direction and a pretty clear understanding of where you would like to emerge.  It seems you’re caught in the FOG…fear, obligation, and guilt.
 Not sure if you’ve read about that here…and I’ve been absent a while, but I’m sure some simple searching here can explain the FOG.  Know you’re not alone…many here comprehend

[JazzSinger]

I'm sure its not how a marriage is supposed to be when I'm more relaxed and having more fun with near strangers than my husband.

Dear Stuck,

I’m relatively new here, and I’m just seeing your post. I feel your pain. 

Whenever I’m away from my uhwBPD, whether it’s with nearly strangers, friends, or even one of my doctors, it’s like drinking water after being stranded in a desert.  They become the air I breathe.  It’s a joy — and then I go home, to misery. My husband is almost impossible to live with.

It’s not easy.  The only thing I can recommend is more self care.  More time with friends. 

Hang in there. 

Hugs,
JazzSinger

[Stuck2023]

I’m relatively new here, and I’m just seeing your post. I feel your pain.

I’ve been quiet here for a bit but I saw your post too and I felt like I could’ve written it myself! I wish I had advice I thought would help but you already seem to have it down from what I can tell

My uhwBPD has really upped his game the last month or so although we’ve had very rocky marriage counselling sessions. He goes to it for me, not because he thinks it helps. But I think it’s shown I meant it that I was unhappy and was nearly done.

I’ve been booking myself out to socials and fun events whenever I can and it’s been amazing on many levels. Fresh air, steps to becoming my new self, whatever that ends up being.

I recently posted that I was hopeful we might amicably separate but I now don’t think that will happen. We’re getting on better than in years (and pretty consistently too) and he’s putting in a lot of work on himself and us. I haven’t been able to find our spark again though (yet?). If I split now he’ll be heartbroken and rightfully angry. I’ve seen glimmers of the depths of panic that would spike in him, it’s scary - scared for him rather than of him though. And I should give it time I guess to see if the spark comes back and if he sticks with his efforts.

[JazzSinger]

If I split now he’ll be heartbroken and rightfully angry. I’ve seen glimmers of the depths of panic that would spike in him, it’s scary - scared for him rather than of him though. And I should give it time I guess to see if the spark comes back and if he sticks with his efforts.

Stuck2023,

Your situation seems very similar to mine, except you’re making progress. Good for you!  My husband wouldn’t agree to counseling.  He thinks he’s fine and everything is fine. 

It’s great that you’re doing more for you! I’m in a similar place, and it feels wonderful. Sadly, for me, there’s still a lot more fun and laughter in my life when I’m not with him.   

I don’t know what the future holds for our marriage, but I’m going to keep focusing on ME. I know he’d be devastated and could even get violent if I decided to leave, even if just for a few days.   But I’m more scared for ME than I am for him.

Thankfully, right now, he’s in a better place, and the harsh criticisms and outbursts have stopped, after an extremely difficult six months.  So, I’m staying put.  I can live in peace for now.  But I don’t know how long this pleasant break will last. 

I’m glad you’re making progress and you feel things are looking up.

Best,
JazzSinger

[Stuck2023]

I don’t know what the future holds for our marriage, but I’m going to keep focusing on ME. I know he’d be devastated and could even get violent if I decided to leave, even if just for a few days.   But I’m more scared for ME than I am for him.

Thankfully, right now, he’s in a better place, and the harsh criticisms and outbursts have stopped, after an extremely difficult six months.  So, I’m staying put.  I can live in peace for now.  But I don’t know how long this pleasant break will last. 

Hi JazzSinger,

I'm sorry your marriage is not going so well. Until very very recently, and still sometimes, there is more fun and laughter and peace in my life when I'm away from him and with others. I've built my schedule now that there's only 1 evening a week I'm in the house now, then weekends are more fluid but also trying to keep 1 day of that for socializing with friends too. Its perked me up so much having more space and people to see and things to do.

I know you're not the only one scared of their pwBPD on here. I've always told mine that if I was ever scared OF him, I would be gone. He does believe that. I have a close family and friendship group that I know that if I had to run they would put me up, collect me, help me move things out, stand between me and him... and he knows that too. Hopefully this extra you-time will improve your safety net too in case the time its needed ever comes.

Enjoy your break while it lasts, and I keep fingers crossed it lasts a long time for you!

Stuck

[SaltyDawg]

I know you're not the only one scared of their pwBPD on here. I've always told mine that if I was ever scared OF him, I would be gone. He does believe that. I have a close family and friendship group that I know that if I had to run they would put me up, collect me, help me move things out, stand between me and him... and he knows that too. Hopefully this extra you-time will improve your safety net too in case the time its needed ever comes.

This is a wonderful example of setting a strong 'boundary' for an intimate partner.  Most borderlines can be sane and reasonable, if they want to be.  In the work place, if they are out of line, they lose their job.  With casual friends, they will lose them and won't have any, as casual friends won't tolerate an a$$hole personality.  Likewise in intimate relationships, which often do not have these boundaries, they will let their emotions get the better of them.

The boundary in Stuck's case is that she will leave if things get bad.  Definitely improve your safety net, improving your circle of friendships is one way to do this, this also includes setting aside some cash, if need be, to go to a hotel, I have such cash (since 2009) set aside for just this reason - fortunately it has not gotten bad enough to use it, but there have been a few occasions that were 'close'.  I also have communicated this with my uBPDw, and things have gotten better.  However, do be aware if you have children (or grandchildren) under 18 in your care, your pwBPD's target of blame may shift to them, and one needs to ensure that they are protected too.  Their respective individual therapists and I've given both of my children tools to defend themselves when my wife becomes dysregulated, even if my D16 abuses these tools from time to time with typical teenage rebellion.

As always, make time for self-care, friendships and/or getting away is a version of self-care, you need to have enough energy to deal with the pwBPD's issues when you are in their presence as they can be emotionally draining.

Take care, with self-care.

[Stuck2023]

Marriage counselling is still going, how much good it is doing I don’t know anymore. We have “communication issues” (no  ) and that’s what we’re going to work on apparently. “How to talk about issues without it getting too emotional.”

We ended yesterday in a tense upset atmosphere because I took something he said badly and got defensive. I own it, and wanted to apologise but he was too upset to talk at the time so this morning I apologised and explained that it wasn’t anything he said - it was me because of something bothering me from work, and i shouldn’t have snapped at him. I expected this to ease things? Actively taking blame for something off him? But instead he started crying again because it hurt and saying he just wants to forget it. But he won’t forget it. It will come out as ammo the next time I’m not a saint and snap at him, as proof that I’m always mean.

I don’t understand how an apology went so badly.

[SaltyDawg]

Marriage counselling is still going, how much good it is doing I don’t know anymore. We have “communication issues” (no  ) and that’s what we’re going to work on apparently. “How to talk about issues without it getting too emotional.”

We ended yesterday in a tense upset atmosphere because I took something he said badly and got defensive. I own it, and wanted to apologise but he was too upset to talk at the time so this morning I apologised and explained that it wasn’t anything he said - it was me because of something bothering me from work, and i shouldn’t have snapped at him. I expected this to ease things? Actively taking blame for something off him? But instead he started crying again because it hurt and saying he just wants to forget it. But he won’t forget it. It will come out as ammo the next time I’m not a saint and snap at him, as proof that I’m always mean.

I don’t understand how an apology went so badly.

Communication is the key.  Except when I am feeling unwell, I make a herculean effort not to trigger my wife while communicating with her.  It has gotten so bad, that if I use the word trigger, that can be triggering for her - it seems like I cannot talk to her about normal differences of issues and that can be quite frustrating for me.  I own my stuff, my wife is starting to own her stuff too, but I feel it isn't going far enough.

I hear how frustrating that he won't forget it and bring it up as ammo.

For now with my wife, I am focusing on her feelings, and why she is feeling that way, rather than the facts which often get distorted (but often have a kernel of truth) to the point of being a false narrative for my wife to match her feelings.  I am making some progress here, but the speed of progress is very slow.

I have also noticed that there are setbacks in our couple's therapy, even back to square one on a couple of occasions.  I am happy as long as there is a general upward trend of improvement, even though the progress looks very shaky at times.

I often reflect on what happened in the couple's therapy with my individual therapist - bounce ideas off her, and use her as a sounding board, to move forward in couple's therapy.

This is the process that I use and I do see incremental improvements with the relationship with my wife.

I also do self-care as this is a very frustrating process at times.  Be sure to take care with self-care.

[Stuck2023]

For now with my wife, I am focusing on her feelings, and why she is feeling that way, rather than the facts which often get distorted (but often have a kernel of truth) to the point of being a false narrative for my wife to match her feelings.  I am making some progress here, but the speed of progress is very slow.

I have also noticed that there are setbacks in our couple's therapy, even back to square one on a couple of occasions.  I am happy as long as there is a general upward trend of improvement, even though the progress looks very shaky at times.

It’s a late reply but I got there. Thank you SaltDawg, and it’s good to read about some progress in better directions for people. We’ve managed to have a couple of conversations about the apology that went wrong and I think it boiled down to him getting upset that I could think even briefly badly of him/ that he was condescending to me? My immediate thoughts are the hypocrisy of it as he does that to me all the time but bringing that up (not my smartest move I know) ratcheted  up the tension 100x. I’m going to try your tactic of focus on the feeling not the facts next time although that’s really difficult for me - I’m a very facts driven person by nature :S

It’s slow  but I’m learning more about how his mind seems to be working and triggers but dear lord it’s so exhausting. We get along fine so long as I am never annoyed at him. Anything else but him. Which to be fair is maybe even most of the time but god I’m only human. It’s depressing looking at a future and trying to imaging resigning myself to regular meltdowns because I had a bad day or he just got on my nerves.


I feel like I’m seeing images now of a potential future together, with a lot of work and time. I’m just unsure if I want it… I never expected marriage to be easy but I never expected it to be a lifetime commitment to being an emotion manager. I wanted an equal to take on the world side by side with, supporting each other but not dependent. Maybe that’s naive. Maybe I should accept that that’s not what I have, and make what I have work as best I can and accept things. Then that feels like” settling”which feels a whole different level of bad and not fair on anyone. Urgh head is a mess. Individual therapy later this week will be fun I’m sure.

[SaltyDawg]

It’s a late reply but I got there. Thank you SaltDawg, and it’s good to read about some progress in better directions for people. We’ve managed to have a couple of conversations about the apology that went wrong and I think it boiled down to him getting upset that I could think even briefly badly of him/ that he was condescending to me? My immediate thoughts are the hypocrisy of it as he does that to me all the time but bringing that up (not my smartest move I know) ratcheted  up the tension 100x. I’m going to try your tactic of focus on the feeling not the facts next time although that’s really difficult for me - I’m a very facts driven person by nature :S

I too am a very facts driven person - so it is not intuitive to focus on their feelings.  However, that seems to smooth things over a lot more readily than if I make observations on how the facts do not match the feelings.


It’s slow  but I’m learning more about how his mind seems to be working and triggers but dear lord it’s so exhausting. We get along fine so long as I am never annoyed at him. Anything else but him. Which to be fair is maybe even most of the time but god I’m only human. It’s depressing looking at a future and trying to imaging resigning myself to regular meltdowns because I had a bad day or he just got on my nerves.

It is so emotionally draining to do this.  I no longer get annoyed by my pwBPD, as I have come to accept those kinds of behaviors.  I am also setting boundaries on behaviors I do not like, nor should I accept.

When he isn't having a meltdown, and is as 'normal' as he can be, have a discussion about setting boundaries on how you refuse to have anyone yelling at you (or worse).  Tell him you will give that person 1-3 warnings, and then you will walk away until cooler heads can prevail.  Being on the receiving end of being shouted at is no fun, nor should it be tolerated, as that is abuse being directed towards you.  Perhaps, you can start off by asking him what idea is if someone decided to start yelling at him, and then suggest this strategy.  Whatever boundary you put in place, be sure you are willing to follow through on it, consistently every time it happens.  If you don't follow through, then it will get worse.  Also the first several times you do the boundary it will also likely be much worse before it gets better.

This is an example that I use with my pwBPD.  If my pwBPD starts to get very irritated over something that they perceive I have done and start to raise their voice at me.  I will initially respond in a cool, calm voice "It must feel very frustrating for you that you have perceived I have done this to you - I am sorry that you feel that way".  (notice, I did not validate the invalid perception, I validated the feeling of being wronged).  If you actually did what they are accusing you of, own it, and apologize for it, but if it is false, address the feeling rather than their distorted fact(s).  However, if is not, and my pwBPD, is rational and accepts the apology for the way they feel, it stops there.  However, if they cannot be rational and they continue or even increase in volume and negativity and expand their more often than not false narratives.  I follow-up with a statement, again, cool and calm along the lines of "I hear how incredibly upset you are becoming, I know I don't like being yelled at, and I don't want to yell at you [back].  If we cannot have a normal conversation I am going to leave until things can calm down."  If they agree "We can wait an hour, let me know when you want to talk about this again after xx:xx"  (Put the ball in their court, once they settle down, it is usually something so small that ticked them off, they don't bring it up again, my pwBPD, only does this about 1 in a hundred times where they actually follow up on something).  However, if they don't agree and continue say something like "I am going to leave right now (to the other room/to run some errands/to my parents/etc), I will be back (I use tomorrow, as my pwBPD usually takes a sleep cycle to calm down - what ever your pwBPD takes to calm down)".  Always reassure them that you will be coming back, otherwise they may panic really badly.  It sucks doing it this way, as nothing gets accomplished.


I feel like I’m seeing images now of a potential future together, with a lot of work and time. I’m just unsure if I want it… I never expected marriage to be easy but I never expected it to be a lifetime commitment to being an emotion manager. I wanted an equal to take on the world side by side with, supporting each other but not dependent. Maybe that’s naive. Maybe I should accept that that’s not what I have, and make what I have work as best I can and accept things. Then that feels like” settling”which feels a whole different level of bad and not fair on anyone. Urgh head is a mess. Individual therapy later this week will be fun I’m sure.

Therapy is the best place to sort out these feelings.  If you don't set strong boundaries and speak to their feelings (vs false facts - this feels like being gaslit), it will only get worse.  I hear you, and sympathise as well as empathise with you - from what you have described you are only a few years in, I am in for more than two decades, and it will be three decades when I intend on being done.  For my particular situation, if there were not any children involved in my situation, I would not be in my current relationship.  And when my youngest leaves for college in 6 years time, that may be the case for me.  Make a list of the pro's and con's - weigh each of them based on importance to you, discuss them with your therapist.  Sleep on it, and then make a plan on what you want to do for yourself.

Also, ask yourself what you would recommend for a girlfriend if she was in your situation?  What would you recommend for her?

If you do decide to go the divorce route, make sure you "Pray/Hope for the best, but plan for the worst" as it can go very badly.  Come back here, as things can go 'south' just as fast as he can be angry/upset with you.

Take care with self-care.

[CC43]

Hi Stuck, I'm not a psychologist, but what you wrote sounds more like depression to me.  Having said that, BPD and depression can co-exist.

Sometimes my husband will exhibit some of the behaviors you describe:  stonewalling (refusing to discuss issues or take on necessary tasks) and "punishing" me when I show independence, anything from doing manly chores (fixing things, yard work, work with tools or ladders) to visiting with family and friends.  It's bizarre, but he will sometimes get angry when I do ordinary household chores, because I think that deep down, he feels guilty for not contributing enough, and yet he doesn't feel like helping.  But more than anything, I think that sometimes my husband feels a general lack of control in his life (which has become very stressful because of BPD in a family member) and tries to re-claim control by controlling me.  Control includes micro-management and efforts to impose a curfew, for example.  There were times when business trips and family events would infuriate him . . . as if these were somehow optional for me.

Some ways I've coped with this include the following.  I make time for self-care, even if it makes him angry temporarily.  I try to point out (but only when he's in a stable mood) that he gets to do whatever he wants whenever he wants, so it's only fair that I get free time here and there to do what I want, for example.  If he's reasonable, he should WANT me to take care of myself and cultivate important relationships.  Sometimes he will retaliate by calling to check up on me when I'm out of the house, but I've pointed out countless times that it is normal for someone to go to a gym for an hour or two without interruptions or status updates.  As he doesn't have BPD, he's able to see the logic in that.  Over time he's gotten more comfortable with me having my own life.  But he still is prone to anger if he feels neglected.

Another tactic I've used is praise and appreciation.  I look out for anything that he's done and praise him.  Catch him in the act of doing something positive!  Say, honey, I really appreciate how you took out the trash (even if you do it 10 times more often than he does).  If you notice and praise it, he's much more likely to do it again.  Don't expect him to notice what you do; just be happy that he contributes (and/or pays some bills) and is making a positive change.  If he goes to therapy, tell him how you're sincerely grateful that he's willing to work on feeling better and having a positive relationship.  Even if the therapy doesn't work, at least he tried, and that is meaningful for both of you.  This may seem manipulative, but I prefer to look at it another way.  Wouldn't you like it if your loved one acknowledged all the hard work you're doing?  Then it's fabulous to notice the good things he's doing, and I can almost guarantee that he will want to do more, the more you acknowledge it.  The other good thing is that you can start this right now.  Just catch him in the act.  Even if he emerges from self-imposed isolation, just say, it's so nice to spend some time with you.

Finally, when my husband is upset and yelling, I resist engaging.  I've found that arguing just feeds his anger, and when he's angry, nothing is logical.  This is easier said than done, at least for me.  But I've tried not to provoke him further when he's angry and let him cool off before attempting a conversation.  As he is logical (but short-fused), he often sees how he let his emotions get the better of him in the moment.

[ForeverDad]

Also, stepping away to give time and space for emotions to cool off is not passive-aggressive "punishment".  It is a positive boundary with a purpose, not some angry tit for tat.