Introduction and gratitude

[Only Human]

 
Good evening fellow travelers,

I found this board by googling "extinction burst" and I'm so glad you're all here. Thanks to all of you for sharing your stories, knowledge, and hope to those of us beginning our journey.

About me:

I live in Sunny Northern California with my 25-year-old daughter (BPD), her 4-year-old son, and my miniature dachshund, Emerald, who will be 14 in December. I'm 53, I've worked full time for the government since 1983, and hope to retire in 2022 after 37 years of service. I single-parented my daughter and her older brother (28) from the time my daughter was born. My kids' father was mostly absent due to drug use (crank), has been off drugs for about 15 years, is married to a raging alcoholic, has a 12-year-old son, and believes our daughter's BPD diagnosis is "an excuse for her to be nasty." My daughter went NC with him over a year ago.  I've had periods of depression, heavy drinking, and drug use (cocaine). I'm co-dependent, I struggle with guilt and shame, I'm controlling, and I've recently discovered that I hate myself. I'm an empath who hadn't heard that term until after I ended a very brief relationship with a man I believe to be a sociopath.  My main support system includes my best girlfriend of 20 years, (her mother was my friend for 30+ years before she discarded me in 2014 and, while not officially diagnosed, is likely narcissistic), and our family therapist (LCSW) since 4/2018.

About my daughter: She has a history of self-harm and hospitalizations starting around age 12 or 13. Her initial diagnosis was Bipolar II and she had excellent mental health care through our HMO throughout her adolescence. She was diagnosed with BPD some years ago but I can't recall if she was an adolescent or an adult because I mentally rejected the diagnosis after reading a very hopeless description of the disorder. When she was 14 she was in a brief relationship with a 16-year-old boy who abused her sexually and emotionally and whose mother described as a sociopath. She moved out the day after she turned 18 and has received little to no mental health care since then until April this year. As an adult, she was anorexic for a time, and she abused meth and was homeless for about six months. She's come back to the nest a handful of times for short periods, staying about three months each time before I asked her to leave in less than loving/compassionate ways. This usually resulted in her punishing me for several weeks by not allowing me any contact with her son. Her son's father is not in the picture and has been in and out of jail/prison for the last four years. She has lived with me since 4/2018, her most recent return to the nest. She doesn't have a driver license and she is unemployed. She recently ended a 3.5-year relationship with a man who has similar traits as my daughter. She maintains contact with him and that relationship is tumultuous.

My desire is for her and her son to live with me as long as necessary, forever if that's best, and for us to have a relationship that is more genuine where we are both getting our needs met - Tall order, I know! I finally accepted her diagnosis early this year and have come to terms with my own shortcomings and how I've spent the last several years blaming her for our troubles, despite having a part in the destruction of our relationship. I'm committed to supporting my daughter and to taking care of myself in the process. It's been very difficult and I've made many mistakes along the way in the short time since April.

I am super excited about finding this board. There are no in-person support groups where I live and I'm grateful for the opportunity to read, learn, and share.

My daughter and I are experiencing a super-duper rough spot at the moment and I got a tattoo today as an act of self-care. It was inspired by my current favorite musical artist, Jason Mraz. Mine says "novice."


My username is the title of a Jason Mraz song. And I am.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[wendydarling]

Hello Only Human    welcome to bpdfamily.

I'm glad you've joined us! What a wonderful intro, I love your honesty and insight and I hope you gain as much from the resources and support as I have. This is the place to learn!

What's happening in your super duper rough spot right now?  Are you both in therapy?

WDx

[Only Human]

Hello wendydarling, thanks for the welcome. She is self-injuring, raging, says I don't listen, missing medical appointments, walking out of family and individual therapy appointments, etc. We had a therapy appointment today and she stated that she doesn't want to live with me anymore, she loves me but it's not working, she feels stuck, like she's 16 again, living with her mommy, but with her own child. So the conversation turned to, "I hear you saying you don't want to live with your mom, what support do you need to make that happen?" She said she needs to get her license, a job, etc., and has a million excuses and many people to blame for why she hasn't taken any steps toward those goals in the five months since she came to live with me. Our therapist says she's "help rejecting" and at one point said to my daughter, "At this point I think you need more intensive services than what I can offer so... ." and my daughter told her "bleep" you and walked out. I later heard her on the phone telling someone, "And she told me she can't handle me, what the "bleep"? How bout you stop canceling my appointments?" etc. Total fabrication, our therapist hasn't canceled any appointments, my daughter is spinning a tale to gain sympathy.

When she first came back to live with me she was engaging in therapy and seemed to have some insight into her struggle and a desire to change. We seem to have gotten into our old patterns... .me rescuing, her becoming more and more helpless. About a week ago she told me she's suicidal and wants to hurt herself. The last time she told me that was nearly a year ago, we were driving and she was hitting herself in the head and bit her knee hard enough to draw blood. I told her I was worried and felt like I should take her to the hospital. We were stopped at a light and she got out of the car and ran away from me. I begged her to get back into the car, texted her, "I just want to know you're ok, I won't take you to the hospital, I promise," etc. Emotional blackmail is a strong trait with her and until about a month ago, I was powerless against it. I know that I've enabled her and I'm working hard to stop. Hence my googling "extinction burst" and finding this place. There's so much more and it's tempting to pour my heart out but I must work tomorrow and it's late so I'm going to bed. I wish I could take a month off to immerse myself in this website, the lessons, the posts, etc. I wish I had found this place in April when she came to live with me. I'm struggling with letting go of the guilt I have for "doing it wrong again."

[Merlot]

Hi Only Human

Along with Wendy Darling, I welcome you here to the bpdfamily. 

Wow, you are really going through a lot and many parents will be able to relate to what you have been and are still going through.  While your daughter seems to engage with her diagnosis and seek help, while very positive, it's clear there are set backs. From what I have read, this is normal for BPD.  Having said that, the amount of work you are doing on yourself is very commendable and will pave the way for consistency, kindness and care.

I finally accepted her diagnosis early this year and have come to terms with my own shortcomings and how I've spent the last several years blaming her for our troubles, despite having a part in the destruction of our relationship. I'm committed to supporting my daughter and to taking care of myself in the process. It's been very difficult and I've made many mistakes along the way in the short time since April.

This is something I have struggled with myself, my daughter is 27 only diagnosed three years ago.  I reflect on how difficult she always has been and how difficult it was to like her.  We argued and fought all the time, and I resented how much time and energy she took from me.  Without knowing about BPD or mental health issues, she brought out the worst in me and I'm sure in her mind it validated that I don't love her, don't care about her and never did; these accusations levelled at me with such abuse 8 months ago and I have been cut off since.

I really like that you are so self aware about your patterns of behaviour and how you may need to change.

I'm struggling with letting go of the guilt I have for "doing it wrong again."

Please don't be too hard on yourself, you have done the very best you can, and the steps you are taking are huge.  BPD is such a difficult disorder and there is no one size fits all solution.  It's about being intuitive and changing your approach to elicit the most positive outcome you can on any given day.

Hang in there, we are all here to support you.

Merlot

[Only Human]

  Hello Merlot,

Thanks for the welcome. I have been amazed at the information as well as the quality of the posts here. I have browsed a subreddit or two and found them to be absolutely not helpful. Many stuck and angry people. I really trust your statement, "we are all here to support you."

I want to post about where my daughter and I are currently, but it's taking me a long time to put it into words and I made a commitment to an earlier bedtime tonight. I'll definitely be back.

[wendydarling]

Hi Only Human

I have been amazed at the information as well as the quality of the posts here. I have browsed a subreddit or two and found them to be absolutely not helpful. Many stuck and angry people. I really trust your statement, "we are all here to support you."

We speak the truth as Merlot says, we are parents, loved ones here on the boards, as volunteers you are in very safest of hands.   This was my first forum experience, I dipped in my toe gradually, thanks to parents reaching out to me, here I am, 3 years on.  

"We had a therapy appointment today and she stated that she doesn't want to live with me anymore, she loves me but it's not working, she feels stuck, like she's 16 again, living with her mommy, but with her own child." I think this a fair assessment of any adult living at home, they can feel stuck at best of times. That she can say she loves you, despite her disorder to me may be your opening. My DD is post DBT, she said to me a year ago she now feels gratitude and kindness. 2015 she was in the worst place.

I stepped in her shoes and helped her out, with support of parents here. We can, it's tough.

How's your day  OH?

WDx

[Only Human]

Today was a good-enough day, haha. Better than the last couple of weeks to be sure.

When she came to live with me in 4/2018, she was in crisis. She had been evicted from a rental owned by her son's paternal grandfather where she was paying greatly reduced rent. It was her first residence that was not living with others. For the two years prior to that, she lived with her now-ex BF and his mother, an alcoholic/addict with mental health issues of her own. She had been working as a caregiver at an "old folk's home" (sorry, if that's not PC, I don't know what they're called these days), and worked 8PM-8AM, five days a week. She would call me late at night and cry about being overwhelmed, or about the latest friend who abandoned her, or whatever. I knew nothing about S.E.T., or validating her, or what my boundaries were and just felt so bad for her. I rescued her many times then felt resentful and scared that I would be rescuing her for the rest of my life. The BF's house was full of cockroaches and cats and when her son visited at my house every Saturday from 11-6, he refused to get out of the car when I brought him home. It was breaking my heart. He once called me a "bleep bleep" and when I told my daughter about it, she replied, "That doesn't surprise me, that's what I call my BF's mom all the time." I could only imagine what it was like there. As for the landlord/former father in law, he's a tyrant, an abuser, and controlling. She was grateful to get out of the two-year lease after just a few months and has gone NC with him. She is, in fact, NC with that whole side of the family which consists of her child's father and his parents. Upon receipt of the 60-day notice, she made plans to move out of state to live with a friend of her BF's and his family. After just three days, they were asked to leave due to my daughter's rage. She lost all of her belongings in storage. She called me in a panic saying she "has to live with" me and she'll be back in CA in three days. I said, "Oh, I don't know if it's a good idea for us to live together, given our history." She sent a text telling me to have a good life without her and her son. I said, "As you wish." Shortly after that, within a few minutes, she changed her mind. When she got back to CA, she spent all of her tax refund money on hotels for a few weeks and allowed me to take her son for visits to my house. I sent a "living agreement" that I'm not proud of - stating all my RULES if she came to live with me. Get a driver license, get her son into preschool, keep the house clean, no overnight guests, and the list went on. I tried to think of every little thing that caused us trouble in the past when she lived with me. That went over like a lead balloon but I was afraid. She can be so nasty and I had limited tools for coping with her behavior. The last time she had lived with me I felt like a prisoner and isolated myself in my bedroom while she took over the house and lived like a pig with many visitors. Her BF was over constantly and showed me no respect.

Eventually, I called a therapist who was eager to work with us and I told my daughter I would only consider living with her on the condition that we get family counseling. She agreed and we had a few sessions before she moved in. It was the honeymoon phase for about three months. Then the meltdowns began. It was never about me, it was always something going on with her ex who she maintains contact with because she relies on him for rides and to take her son for short visits so she can get a break. She would be on the ground, screaming, crying, hitting herself, etc., and I was freaked out. I also started getting resentful. I worried about how the meltdowns were affecting her son, I worried that she was never going to get better, I worried about how much I was worrying. I basically took over her life - I was the one making her medical appointments, taking her to appointments, solving her problems, etc. We had gotten into our old habits and I got scared.

Most recently, I walked away from her after she had said for the 15th time in that many days, "I'm so overwhelmed, I want to kill myself." Each time before that my response was, "I'm so sorry honey, I know you're struggling, is there anything I can do to help you?" I was afraid to suggest a trip to the hospital since the last time I did that, she jumped out of my car and ran away from me. After I walked away from her, she raged at me, calling me names, etc. I shut down. Since that day, she's raged at me and called me names a few times. I told her I don't have to listen to her and will walk away when she starts yelling at me. She told me, "too bad, that's how I am, deal with it." At one point I asked her to get out of my car, she refused, and I got out and walked home. I was beginning to think the best thing would be to insist that she move out if she doesn't get help with her mental health. But, she has nowhere to go, no money, no license, no car, nothing but public assistance and my precious grandson.

With the help of my therapist, I wrote her a letter which I gave her a week ago. It reads:

"I know you're not going to want to hear this but this is what I need to say. In the past, I have been afraid to say things to you out of fear of your reaction. I won't let that stop me because I love you and care about you and I'm willing to fight for you. I'm concerned and I want to get you more support. I want you to have a happy life and I feel like I've done everything I can to show you that I love you, that I want you here, that I am here to support you, and that I'm in this for life. I hope that you will choose to hear the messages I've been giving you through all these years.

I hear when you say you want to kill yourself that you're asking for help but I don't know how to help you so I'm asking you to take steps to help yourself.

I hear that you're in a place where you'd rather not live with me and that is one of your choices. One of your other choices is you can continue to live with me and do what you agreed to originally: Take care of your mental health.

(Therapist) has given you many suggestions like DBT, Parent-Child Interaction Therapy (PCIT), getting (son) assessed, etc. All of these services can be accessed through (State Program, telephone number). If you choose to continue living here, please call them by 9/27 and make an appointment. I also ask that you ask me for help directly. For example, "Can you give me a ride on Tuesday at 2:00?" because I am not able to tell when you're making a statement, blowing off steam, or asking for help.

My heart is hurting by the things you have said recently and your words and actions are hurting our relationship. You owe it to yourself, to XXXX, and to those who love you to take care of yourself by getting the help you need.

I love you and I'm not giving up on us."

Tomorrow is 9/27. In the last few days, I've been taking care of myself and practicing validating and not reacting/rescuing. This resulted in an extinction burst which MIGHT be over. Yesterday she told me she was overwhelmed, didn't know how her son was going to get to preschool, couldn't deal with it, was scared, etc. Her voice was raised but she didn't yell. She didn't say she wanted to kill herself. I did my best to validate her but did not, as I did last week, offer to take him to preschool (that's the trip that ended with me getting out of the car and walking home.) If she had asked, I would have said yes, but that's one of our struggles - she complains about a problem and I fix it. I'm doing everything and she's doing nothing to move forward. So he didn't go to preschool yesterday. Last night, she asked me if I would take her grocery shopping. I did. She shared with me that her friend would take her son to preschool today and her ex would pick him up. She shared with me that her friend was going to give her a driving lesson today and she hopes to have her license within a week. I didn't say, "Well, DMV appointments for driving tests are booked eight weeks out." I didn't say, "Does your friend know you don't have a permit?" Tonight, she asked if I would take her son to preschool tomorrow. I said I would. I work from home on Tuesdays and Thursdays and I'm able to flex my time.

I'm reading all I can on this website. S.E.T. is like a foreign language and it's hard for me to hide my body language, she sees right through me. But I'm committed. I'm also committed to taking better care of myself and learning what my boundaries are.

There is, obviously, more to our story. But that's where we are right now.

[Only Human]

I forgot to mention that at our last therapy session, she said she doesn't want to do family therapy anymore.

[Only Human]

That she can say she loves you, despite her disorder to me may be your opening.

She alternates between I love you and I hate you, depending on whether I'm doing what she wants or holding a boundary. Many days I hear both. But I know she loves me. Of that, I am sure.

[Only Human]

Another thing going on is that her son prefers me and when I'm in the room he asks her to leave to give us privacy. Her response to this request is either, "ok," or, "I don't have to leave," or "great, you want memaw to be your mother, that's fine you spoiled brat," as she's storming out of the room, slamming doors behind her. Yesterday he told me, "you're like a mommy," and I replied, "Well, I am a mommy. I'm your mommy's mommy." He said, "No, you're my mommy," to which I replied, "I'm your memaw, and that's very special too." When I left for work, my daughter was sleeping on the couch. He asked if he could come with me and I said he couldn't, that I had to go to work. As I was walking out the door he asked, "Will you protect me?" I said I would but that feels like a lie because I know that she yells at him and ignores him.

My daughter is online, streaming live, from the time her son goes to bed until the wee hours of the morning so she sleeps long after he has gotten up. The house is baby proofed but I worry. While she's sleeping he's gotten into much mischief; emptied a whole container of fish food into the aquarium, emptied $75 worth of tie-dye powder onto the floor, staining the carpet, flushing the toilet paper spool down the toilet, resulting in the need for a new toilet, ripping the towel rack off the wall, etc.

My daughter has stormed out of the house when her son and I are hanging out and yelled, "You got what you wanted, you raise him now, I don't want to be a mother anymore, I'm running away forever." This is messed up and I don't know how to respond. That's how it came to be that I wake up with him on Saturdays and take him out of the house on Wednesdays after work. She didn't ask me, I suggested and she accepted. When she's not asleep, she's on the phone with headphones in and totally ignores her son until he starts doing something that demands her attention, then she screams at him to go to his room. He says, "Stop yelling at me!" and she responds, "I'll stop yelling at you when you start listening!"

I need help with this the most.

[Only Human]

This just happened.

Some background:

I'm working from home today and, as usual, my daughter was sleeping on the couch while her son was just hanging out. I came out of my room/office about 30 minutes before it was time to leave for preschool. She heard me and said, "I have an alarm set, I'm napping." I said, "Ok," and then grandson and I went out to hang on the back porch. A few minutes later, she came out with clothes for him and, without a word, started making gestures to get him dressed. She was impatient with him and getting on his case for not doing it right. I stayed silent. After she went back into the house we stayed out back another few minutes and I announced, "Ok, it's time for me to go back into my room and get ready to go. First, though, (his name,) let's clean up the mess we made earlier. He said he didn't want to and I said, "I know you don't want to but that's what we're doing, that's one." (When my daughter first came to live with me, we talked about how we would co-parent her son. We read the book 1-2-3 Magic and put it into practice. I have kept it up but she has reverted to making demands then sending him to time out when he doesn't comply within seconds, usually with some yelling and put downs sprinkled in.) He started cleaning up but not quick enough for her so she said, "(name!) Clean up now! If you don't clean up now, you're not going to preschool!" He got very upset, of course, but he did clean up. I offered encouragement along the way, "good job," etc.

The ride to and from preschool was uneventful. Here are the things I did right:

I validated, I didn't invalidate when she said things that I believed were not true. For example, she said "Man, the cops are out like crazy. Oh yeah, it's the end of the month and it's noon." I said, "What does that mean?" She said, "They have a quota," and I DIDN'T say, "Oh, I don't think that's true," I just said, "ahh... .I hear you." She complained about her cramps and I said, "Oh man, that sucks, I'm sorry to hear that." She asked if we had midol and I said, "I think I moved it into my room, so the answer is yes we do."

Here's what I did wrong:

She said "My cramps are worst at the beginning and end of my period, they're crippling." I said, "Oh, that's not dramatic at all, haha." And she said, "It's true, I'm not being dramatic." I JADE'd, "I guess I meant the word was dramatic. I totally get it, I remember having bad cramps." She said, "It sucks, I tell others about it, other women, and they say, "Oh, it can't be that bad," and I hate that they invalidate me."

When we got home, I said, "Okay, I'm going back to work," and I went into my room. A few minutes later I heard her in the bathroom and called out, "(name," and she opened my door. I wanted to try my skills at confronting a problem I was having with her stepping in with her son and the job of cleaning up.

Here's how it went:

Me: I wanted to talk to you about something, when is a good time?

Her: Now. (then she came into my room and sat on my bed)

Me: When I was working with (name) on cleaning up the Paw Patrol toys and you stepped in, I felt

Her: Invalidated? Unsupported? Yeah, welcome to my world.

Me: I felt

Her: Yeah, I stepped in because I could see he was working you. I'm tired of walking on egg shells with you, when I see that he's taking advantage of you, I'm gonna say something.

Me: Okay, I just wanted to let you know.

She left.

I feel defeated and also proud that it didn't turn into the circular argument that usually happens with stuff like this.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Feeling Better]

Hi Only Human 

Wow, there is a lot going on for you and I wanted to reach out to you and let you know that I really feel for you.

I admire your commitment and I can see you truly love your daughter and grandson and you want the very best for them.

I like how you sorted out the co-parenting with your daughter when she first came back to live with you, a very wise thing to do to try and avoid conflict. So now, how do you get her to stick to it? I’m sorry, I had to smile at your conversation with her about this, it reminded me of similar conversations that I’ve had with my daughter (who incidentally doesn’t have BPD). They just leave you speechless don’t they? You tried and you have every right to feel proud that it didn’t turn into a circular argument. Ok, so you didn’t get the conversation that you’d wanted but that doesn’t mean that you can’t try again 

I hope to hear lots more from you x 

[Only Human]

I hope to hear lots more from you x 

Thanks for the welcome Feeling Better. It's been an emotional day over here. I'm exhausted and have a big day ahead of me tomorrow. I will be calling CPS tomorrow after I ask my grandson to tell me more about his question, "Will you protect me?" As it turns out, my daughter will be out of the house for this talk. I will also talk to him about a basic safety plan. The emotional abuse is unacceptable, the yelling at him is unacceptable, and I've got a plan to step in and take a stand to protect my grandson, just as he asked me to. I'm shaking while I type this. I'm scared and I'm so very sad.

[Feeling Better]

I am so very sorry that you are having to do this but I am sure that you know yourself, deep down, that you have no other choice, you are keeping your promise to your small and vulnerable grandson and you are doing it with the greatest of love and courage   
Any parent here can recognise what a tough decision you have had to make and of course we will all be with you along the way

Thinking of you on this difficult day x 

[Merlot]

Hi there Only Human

I have to say that I'm really impressed with the letter you have written your daughter.  It takes a lot of strength and courage to deal with such difficult circumstances, and you set some good strong boundaries while re-affirming to her that you will always be there for her.  I'm equally impressed with how easily you seem to have adapted to validating, it's such a shift

I'm so sorry for your grandson, this is just so hard and his safety when she is still asleep must be very difficult to deal with and I can understand how you would be so very worried.  I think child proofing the house is great, and I hope there is some way that she can change her routine, or there is a way that you can engage her in a conversation about this when she is calm.  Rome wasn't built in a day and it sounds like you are really persevering with small steps.  They are very lucky to have you, and you will always be a safe constant in your son's life.

I have read Rachel Rieland's :Get me out of Here.  A very powerful book about BPD recovery, it's a long journey but the consistent messaging you are providing you daughter will resonate deep within her.

Take care

Merlot

[Only Human]

I have to say that I'm really impressed with the letter you have written your daughter.  It takes a lot of strength and courage to deal with such difficult circumstances, and you set some good strong boundaries while re-affirming to her that you will always be there for her. 

Thank you. I'm real good at setting boundaries but have always struggled with enforcing them. I'm more committed than I've ever been to making changes. I read somewhere here, something like... ."Intermittent reinforcement is more powerful than constant reinforcement" or something like that and man, I took that to heart. One slip of my enforcing my boundaries causes damage. Or something. I'm having a hard time getting my thoughts into words.

I'm equally impressed with how easily you seem to have adapted to validating, it's such a shift

Thank you for saying so. It's a totally different language and I'm so hard on myself when I do it wrong. I forget to remember the times I do it right. I'm working on mindfulness.

I'm so sorry for your grandson, this is just so hard and his safety when she is still asleep must be very difficult to deal with and I can understand how you would be so very worried.  I think child proofing the house is great, and I hope there is some way that she can change her routine, or there is a way that you can engage her in a conversation about this when she is calm.  Rome wasn't built in a day and it sounds like you are really persevering with small steps.

Excellent reminder about the small steps. I tend to have high expectations for myself as well as for my daughter and I catastrophize when things aren't going exactly as I hoped/planned. Again, mindfulness - I'm starting to get it =)

They are very lucky to have you, and you will always be a safe constant in your son's life.

That is my hope.

I have read Rachel Rieland's :Get me out of Here.  A very powerful book about BPD recovery, it's a long journey but the consistent messaging you are providing you daughter will resonate deep within her.

I bought that book for my daughter. Twice. Even though she didn't ask me to, . Yes, the caretaking/rescuing/controlling runs deep. Maybe I will ask her if I can borrow it =)