About dissociation

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Say a BPD mother did horrible things to her own children.

Later on, those children have children and she becomes a BPD grandmother.

Could she somehow start dissociating and project the horrible things she did to her own children on her grandchildren, but in this dissociation, the parents are the abusers?

My uBPDm told me horrible things about my brother. She told me he once put his two years old, at 10pm, in his pajamas, during winter, no shoes, outside. His feet in the snow. To "calm him down" because he was crying.

I never double-checked if this was true. How could I? It's the kind of question one just doesn't ask. I did ask why she didn't do anything about it though... But I couldn't bring myself to ask my brother.

Well, I finally did, because it just seems ... Off. My brother is his own mind, he is intense but not like this. I cannot imagine he would ever do this kind of thing. He said he has no memory of ever doing that.

I wonder if...uBPDm didn't maybe do this to my brother when he was young, and is now projecting her past on him, as if he was the one abusing his son, even if he is not. So she can somehow "correct" the past.

What prompt this idea is when she told me she had protected my other brother when he got beaten by her boyfriend when she actually did nothing and later on threatened him if he told my father or family service.I remember, I was standing right there when it happened.  I was 9 and I was the first to go downstairs to check on him, while she stayed in the kitchen cleaning, and later on watched TV with her boyfriend.

Would that be possible?

Is it a projection of the past she can't tolerate, or just a random lie?
What do you think?

[Riv3rW0lf]

Say a BPD mother did horrible things to her own children.

Later on, those children have children and she becomes a BPD grandmother.

Could she somehow start dissociating and project the horrible things she did to her own children on her grandchildren, but in this dissociation, the parents are the abusers?

My uBPDm told me horrible things about my brother. She told me he once put his two years old, at 10pm, in his pajamas, during winter, no shoes, outside. His feet in the snow. To "calm him down" because he was crying.

I never double-checked if this was true. How could I? It's the kind of question one just doesn't ask. I did ask why she didn't do anything about it though... But I couldn't bring myself to ask my brother.

Well, I finally did, because it just seems ... Off. My brother is his own mind, he is intense but not like this. I cannot imagine he would ever do this kind of thing. He said he has no memory of ever doing that.

I wonder if...uBPDm didn't maybe do this to my brother when he was young, and is now projecting her past on him, as if he was the one abusing his son, even if he is not. So she can somehow "correct" the past.

What prompt this idea is when she told me she had protected my other brother when he got beaten by her boyfriend when she actually did nothing and later on threatened him if he told my father or family service.I remember, I was standing right there when it happened.  I was 9 and I was the first to go downstairs to check on him, while she stayed in the kitchen cleaning, and later on watched TV with her boyfriend.

Would that be possible?

Is it a projection of the past she can't tolerate, or just a random lie?
What do you think?

[beatricex]

Hi Riv3rW0lf,

I would guess these are projections.  Mostly I think that is what my BPD Mom does when she paints a kid black.  Why choose kids to pick on?  That is where she has the most guilt about her own past, I believe.

I remember having a long conversation with my neice a few years ago after my mom and her aunt ganged up on her when she was 10.  In my mind the adults were acting like children and baiting then bullying her.  Luckily I was there to reassure her.  It's just not OK to do this to a kid, I concluded my Mom and my sister must have been "checked out" or as you say dissociating.  If my niece's Mom had been present they would not have dared to do this to her.

A lot of the bad behavior is I think opportunistic.  Not thinking, reacting, which would imply dissociation.  Interesting topic

b

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Riv3rW0lf,

It sounds as if there are possibilities for many different things going on with your mom. It might be some projection, some issues with memory, and it can also be a way for her to self soothe, as strange as that may seem. If remembering something painful (whether from her past that she did to someone, or something that happened to her in her childhood) and rewriting it to where it isn't as painful to her, she may find less distress within herself and not realize how painful she is making it for others. The dysregulation of a BPD's emotions is a common trait.

Perhaps you might find something helpful in this link: Behaviors: Dissociation and Dysphoria

 
Wools

[Turkish]

A lot of the bad behavior is I think opportunistic.  Not thinking, reacting, which would imply dissociation.  Interesting topic

According to the Duluth Model, abuse is deliberate.

[Riv3rW0lf]

According to the Duluth Model, abuse is deliberate.

But then, in the case of borderline personality disorder, since it is a mental illness. Do they even realize what they are doing? And if they don't realize it, can it still be considered deliberate?

[kells76]

Hi Riv3rW0lf, great discussion topic.

I wonder if...uBPDm didn't maybe do this to my brother when he was young, and is now projecting her past on him, as if he was the one abusing his son, even if he is not. So she can somehow "correct" the past.

Psychologist Dr. Craig Childress has written about that dynamic as it shows up in the "allied parent<-->allied child X alienated parent" family organization. VERY briefly, the "allied parent" cannot permit the child to have a separate and loving relationship with the other parent and so the family hierarchy is distorted and perverted. What stood out to me as I read your question is that Childress shows in these diagrams the "laying over" of the "favored" roles onto current family members, but it's all based on how things were in the past with completely different people. There is perhaps a reenactment compulsion at play, a desire that "if I make it happen this way now, with me as the good guy and someone else as the bad guy, then I will finally feel ok".

Curious if you also see that similarity in the links (especially pages 6-7, though everything he writes is spot-on in my opinion):

https://drcachildress.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/AB-PA-in-Diagrams-Childress-2013.pdf

cheers,

kells76

[Riv3rW0lf]

Kells,

Thank you so very much for sharing this article. It was a hard read but I was able to read through and understand it.

It shed so much light on what happened to me. I knew my mother had somehow turned me against my dad, but I always wondered how that was even possible, considering my father is actually a very sweet man. Now I know. I understand why I was so scared of wolves when I was young. I understand the latent sadness I felt when I lived exusively with my dad. I just didn't allow myself to bond with him because I had been trained to see him as a narcissist and a bad father... The veil is lifted. He is so NOT a narcissist. It's crazy.

And yes, absolutely. I think this is what she is also trying to achieve with my brother's children and most likely what she would do to my own children as well.

I spoke with my brother yesterday and he told me his son had opened up. Turns out my uBPDm told my nephew his parents liked his sister better. So she is actively working on turning him against his parents. I told my brother what I learned and to teach proper boundaries to his children. I don't know if he will, but I think he took me seriously.

Your article was so very helpful in understanding this big part of the puzzle for me. And why my brother suddenly stopped going to my father's house. The pain we put him through, and all this time he waited for us.

I told him I was sorry. He is relieved that I can finally see.

About uBPDm lies.. I now honestly think she really believes this happened. I don't think it was a 'lie" but an alternate reality she made up for herself as a way to deal with her boredom. She has a tendency to profoundly miss her grandchildren, whom she actually sees as extension of her. She told me she feels like she carried them in her because she was once pregnant with me and technically I already had "eggs". Thats just how deep it is for her. She feels entitled to be in their life and my brother and I are basically now a threat to her relationships with our children. And so, I think she is making up stories to paint us as villains, to somehow validate the way she treats us to get to our children.

The other hypothesis I have is that this actually happened to her OR she did it to one of us. But we can't remember. Both my brothers and me have very few memories of our childhood. I have partial memories that abruptly stop and I just can't recall what happened next. I remember my mother crying and screaming in the kitchen and as I went in to ask what was wrong, she threw a glass jar at me. I remember it shattering on the floor and then everything is black. Such a strong memory but .. what happened next?  So it is possible she did this to one of us. I guess I will never know.

But yeah that is definitely the process here. We are now the targeted parent... She is more dangerous than I initially thought...

[Riv3rW0lf]

Wools,

Thank you. I read a lot of the posts and I do think my uBPDm has made up a memory for herself. I don't think she is aware it is a lie. I think that to her, it is true, even though it never actually happened.

The other option is she did it to us or it happened to her.

Those two options are not mutually exclusive.

I will never know. It's a strange illness. I don't know what to feel about her anymore.