Always Maybe - Patterns and Cycles?

[Rev]

All of this is good.

All ... good.

Rev

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[OKrunch]

It's an odd place to have arrived at.

I obviously still care very much about her, the family we had been building and so on. I miss my house, i miss her, i miss my dogs, i miss our kids together.
That being said, Yesterdays conversation has settled a sense of acceptance(?) over the whole situation for me.

Like, I still want the same outcome. I still think about the same things, a lot, but it isnt keeping me up at night. It's not giving me anxiety responses like it had been. The conversation made me really feel like she is actually focusing on herself and trying to sort herself out. Does that mean she is 100% not seeing someone? No. Does that mean that I can instantly trust everything she says? No.
This is an issue I had with the previous reconciliation. It just HAPPENED, we never really discussed things, worked on anything.

That won't happen again.

So, yea, just journaling really. She was pretty quick to fall into talking about her day, and that felt so Normal, so comfortable.
I hope it was nice for her, and she remembers it fondly. It was nice to not have any contention in the conversation.
That said, i was probably a bit too forward in how I reached out, and will be stepping back and letting things settle for now.
I feel in a better place than I was on Friday, and that's really all that counts.

[Rev]

It's an odd place to have arrived at.

I obviously still care very much about her, the family we had been building and so on. I miss my house, i miss her, i miss my dogs, i miss our kids together.
That being said, Yesterdays conversation has settled a sense of acceptance(?) over the whole situation for me.

Like, I still want the same outcome. I still think about the same things, a lot, but it isnt keeping me up at night. It's not giving me anxiety responses like it had been. The conversation made me really feel like she is actually focusing on herself and trying to sort herself out. Does that mean she is 100% not seeing someone? No. Does that mean that I can instantly trust everything she says? No.
This is an issue I had with the previous reconciliation. It just HAPPENED, we never really discussed things, worked on anything.

That won't happen again.

So, yea, just journaling really. She was pretty quick to fall into talking about her day, and that felt so Normal, so comfortable.
I hope it was nice for her, and she remembers it fondly. It was nice to not have any contention in the conversation.
That said, i was probably a bit too forward in how I reached out, and will be stepping back and letting things settle for now.
I feel in a better place than I was on Friday, and that's really all that counts.

So here's a question to ponder - in order to get a sense of yourself in the middle of your journey.

1) There are all the details about what you want, what happened, what to do and say. And you will continue to process that out.

2) Then what is emerging is process how your emotional responses/reactions and subsequent cognitive response/reactions are evolving. Your posts are including these moments of self awareness too. 

All of this is good.

I'm curious to know - if you were to look at your self from outside yourself, and watch yourself go through this process of getting yourself to where you are right at this moment - how do you feel about the way things are going for you and your self esteem?

Put another way, if someone came to you right now and asked for your advice about an approach to make sense of it all, what advice would you give them based on what you know is working for you?

Thoughts?

Hang in there. Reach out any time.

Rev

[chemist52]

You have been handling this so well, much better than you give yourself credit for. Going no contact is not easy, especially when there are children involved. I understand the same feelings of wanting to help and support someone, almost to the point of martyrdom. There’s not much else I can add, as everyone has given such advise already! I hope this reassures you that you have a whole community of people who have been where you have been and are here to support you through this process. Continue to seek any help you need. You did nothing to deserve being treated this way, and there was nothing wrong that you did to cause this. It’s a issue she has with herself. You have nothing to feel guilty about either. You were her partner, not her therapist. Most of us aren’t aware of how BPD affects people until someone we care about has it. The initial road is hard for you, and us now, but we will have an easier path as time moves forward. She may feel like things are great now, but give it time, she’ll realize too late she shot herself in the foot.

[OKrunch]

I'm curious to know - if you were to look at your self from outside yourself, and watch yourself go through this process of getting yourself to where you are right at this moment - how do you feel about the way things are going for you and your self esteem?

Put another way, if someone came to you right now and asked for your advice about an approach to make sense of it all, what advice would you give them based on what you know is working for you?

Thoughts?

Hang in there. Reach out any time.

Rev

I'm curious to know - if you were to look at your self from outside yourself, and watch yourself go through this process of getting yourself to where you are right at this moment - how do you feel about the way things are going for you and your self esteem?

Honestly, thats tough to answer from "outside". The difference being the self esteem i am projecting into the world vs. what I actually feel, Still very much in a "Fake it till you Make it" mode. Things have been so varied between warm, tepid, and freeing damn cold. Things feel hopeful and bleak at the same time. I am hopeful and confident about my growing ability to let go of hope, and trying to mind read. At the same time, I still feel pretty "brought low". My self esteem is improving, albeit slowly, but the thought of "nothing" being the end result and possibly losing, forever, the potential family and what we were building is still pretty damn crushing at times.

Put another way, if someone came to you right now and asked for your advice about an approach to make sense of it all, what advice would you give them based on what you know is working for you?

I would tell them that trying to understand, plan for or predict any future results or behaviors is an exercise in masochism.
I would remind that person that despite what their internal dialogue is telling them, they do have VALUE. the same value they had before the relationship started and they new their ex even existed. We GIVE ourselves to our relationships, and that can often be a large portion of its downfall.

I am trying to remind myself, several times a day, that the Man that she met before I fell in love is the man she was attracted to. Not the codependent person I became, Independence is attractive. Uniqueness is attractive, and so is confidence.

after having typed that, I'm actually a little bummed at myself. I don't think I was being fully Independent on the phone yesterday. I made it clear I'm still very interested and invested. While that might help balm the abandonment issues of a BPD, it comes off as needy and unattractive in the view of normal relationship dynamics.

So which is the right way? No contact and build attraction through independence and growth, so she sees this growth WHEN she checks in on me?
OR
Be present, make it known I'm available and there for her? Make it known I will not give up on her.
Which possibly helps abandonment issues but could be construed as still acting co-dependent.

[OKrunch]

You have been handling this so well, much better than you give yourself credit for. Going no contact is not easy, especially when there are children involved. I understand the same feelings of wanting to help and support someone, almost to the point of martyrdom. There’s not much else I can add, as everyone has given such advise already! I hope this reassures you that you have a whole community of people who have been where you have been and are here to support you through this process. Continue to seek any help you need. You did nothing to deserve being treated this way, and there was nothing wrong that you did to cause this. It’s a issue she has with herself. You have nothing to feel guilty about either. You were her partner, not her therapist. Most of us aren’t aware of how BPD affects people until someone we care about has it. The initial road is hard for you, and us now, but we will have an easier path as time moves forward. She may feel like things are great now, but give it time, she’ll realize too late she shot herself in the foot.

I appreciate your kind words, I wish it FELT like i was handling this well on my end. She kicked me out Sept 22nd, and here I am still in pretty much the same sport. Worrying about her, after how she chucked me out like trash, but yet here I am, still pining. I can't help but feel like some of this is my fault, there were times i couldve been more present. done better handling my reactions, and not being lazy around the house.
I feel like i should be far more angry with her, and I shouldnt be hoping for a reconnect after how I was treated, but yet, I am.

[Rev]

I'm curious to know - if you were to look at your self from outside yourself, and watch yourself go through this process of getting yourself to where you are right at this moment - how do you feel about the way things are going for you and your self esteem?

Honestly, thats tough to answer from "outside". The difference being the self esteem i am projecting into the world vs. what I actually feel, Still very much in a "Fake it till you Make it" mode. Things have been so varied between warm, tepid, and freeing damn cold. Things feel hopeful and bleak at the same time. I am hopeful and confident about my growing ability to let go of hope, and trying to mind read. At the same time, I still feel pretty "brought low". My self esteem is improving, albeit slowly, but the thought of "nothing" being the end result and possibly losing, forever, the potential family and what we were building is still pretty damn crushing at times.

Put another way, if someone came to you right now and asked for your advice about an approach to make sense of it all, what advice would you give them based on what you know is working for you?

I would tell them that trying to understand, plan for or predict any future results or behaviors is an exercise in masochism.
I would remind that person that despite what their internal dialogue is telling them, they do have VALUE. the same value they had before the relationship started and they new their ex even existed. We GIVE ourselves to our relationships, and that can often be a large portion of its downfall.

I am trying to remind myself, several times a day, that the Man that she met before I fell in love is the man she was attracted to. Not the codependent person I became, Independence is attractive. Uniqueness is attractive, and so is confidence.

after having typed that, I'm actually a little bummed at myself. I don't think I was being fully Independent on the phone yesterday. I made it clear I'm still very interested and invested. While that might help balm the abandonment issues of a BPD, it comes off as needy and unattractive in the view of normal relationship dynamics.

So which is the right way? No contact and build attraction through independence and growth, so she sees this growth WHEN she checks in on me?
OR
Be present, make it known I'm available and there for her? Make it known I will not give up on her.
Which possibly helps abandonment issues but could be construed as still acting co-dependent.

Crunch DUDE - that is OUTSTANDING work - Really great Cognitive Behavioral Therapy stuff.   And so,  to your question, the answer is that it will become clear as your mind continues to become clear. That is really what a guy like Sinister Complex means when he says - "You do you."    There is only one right way - the right way for the guy you say was this guy - I am trying to remind myself, several times a day, that the Man that she met before I fell in love is the man she was attracted to. Not the codependent person I became, Independence is attractive. Uniqueness is attractive, and so is confidence.  

Except you what is right for that guy - not her. Does that make sense?  What do these words evoke in you/

Hang in there. Reach out any time.

Rev

[OKrunch]

Crunch DUDE - that is OUTSTANDING work - Really great Cognitive Behavioral Therapy stuff.   And so,  to your question, the answer is that it will become clear as your mind continues to become clear. That is really what a guy like Sinister Complex means when he says - "You do you."    There is only one right way - the right way for the guy you say was this guy - I am trying to remind myself, several times a day, that the Man that she met before I fell in love is the man she was attracted to. Not the codependent person I became, Independence is attractive. Uniqueness is attractive, and so is confidence.  

Except you what is right for that guy - not her. Does that make sense?  What do these words evoke in you/

Hang in there. Reach out any time.

Rev

Thanks Rev, Im not doing any CBT as part of my therapy, but its good to know that all fits in the guidelines.
Just got hit with a pretty big wave of anger.
Was our relationship perfect? no.
But what does she lose ? nothing, she chose the breakup. I did not, But yet, I lost my HOME (for the 2nd time, at the cusp of winter) She didnt. I lost my dogs, my security, my warmth, my ability to cook in a godamn kitchen. My shower. My CHILDS SENSE OF SECURITY.

And yet whenever we talk, she always has something to talk about how hard her situation is. Yesteray it was the fact that she needs car repairs and "cant afford to go to the gym anymore"
Like...UUUHHHGGG that makes me so mad. She did ask how i was doing, how apratment hunt was going and so on.

We had discussed Cohabitation so we could avoid this EXACT SCENARIO.
And whos fault is it that that couldnt happen? MINE of course.

Sorry for the rant. Im just really godamn angry that I suffer all these losses and she still acts like the one who go screwed over.

[Rev]

Thanks Rev, Im not doing any CBT as part of my therapy, but its good to know that all fits in the guidelines.
Just got hit with a pretty big wave of anger.
Was our relationship perfect? no.
But what does she lose ? nothing, she chose the breakup. I did not, But yet, I lost my HOME (for the 2nd time, at the cusp of winter) She didnt. I lost my dogs, my security, my warmth, my ability to cook in a godamn kitchen. My shower. My CHILDS SENSE OF SECURITY.

And yet whenever we talk, she always has something to talk about how hard her situation is. Yesteray it was the fact that she needs car repairs and "cant afford to go to the gym anymore"
Like...UUUHHHGGG that makes me so mad. She did ask how i was doing, how apratment hunt was going and so on.

We had discussed Cohabitation so we could avoid this EXACT SCENARIO.
And whos fault is it that that couldnt happen? MINE of course.

Sorry for the rant. Im just really godamn angry that I suffer all these losses and she still acts like the one who go screwed over.

Anger is a good sign in the sense that you are letting some stuff in now at a rate you can process it.  I can be a great catalyst to taking care of what is important to you. It kind've breaks the fantasy about how great things were, and so on. It breaks the infatuation - which can cause us to suppress stuff we shouldn't.

And DO NOT apologize for ranting. I am happy to listen because others listened to me and you will one day pay this forward.

Hang in there.
Reach out any time.

Rev

[OKrunch]

Whats more is that if, I voiced all of these frustrations to her, I know what the response would be.

"I didn't kick you out, you got yourself kicked out.  you knew how things were going and chose to yell anyway. you did this to yourself and your son. Not me"

"Your son isnt homeless, hes staying with his mother. About time too, i was doing all her mothering for her!"

"I've been homeless before, you'll get on your feet"

"The relationship failing was your fault, it was because of YOUR responses to our arguments"

She never takes any blame. But shes damn good at making it seem like she did.
Only 1 hour left of work, so I can go work out, and go to bed, only to wake up just as Screwed as I am today, tomorrow.

She KNOWS how bad she screwed me over. I lost my home, my custody, my security.
And all she can talk about is her bills and her problems.

MAN i am pissed.

[chemist52]

I felt the same way after being pushed and pulled for 3 1/2 years. I still have some days where I feel like I’m internally collapsing and falling apart. That is part of the healing process, and it’s perfectly valid and normal to have days like that. It’s a fresh wound for you. I can hear how much you loved her, and feelings like that do not fade in a day or a week. You invested a lot into that relationship, so there is no need to rush the grieving process. It really does feel like mourning someone who is still alive. Many of us in your situation felt that way, worrying about them cause no one else seemed to give a damn. I understanding feeling like you need to blame yourself. It’s rational to think “I must have done something to deserve this”. In reality, you did not. 95% of the time it is not caused by you. Something that has helped me was the following:
1) if this were truly my fault, I would not be receiving as much care and support as I am
2) This is not the first time this has happened, it is a pattern of behavior for them
3) I could have been abusive, and the result still would have been the same
4) People who know us would not tell me I did nothing wrong

It’s completely understandable that at times you felt like you should have been more present and less reactive. I wouldn’t blame yourself too much. You were responding to an issue you were unaware of, so it makes sense that it was not handled perfectly. Also, we’re human and we make mistakes. Your intentions were to care and understand. The lack of responsiveness could also come from the fact that at times, you were with two different people in the same body.

That is what makes this so hard. You’re free from Hyde, but you lost Jekyll. I’m two months no contact and I still have urges to reach out and want to help. Those feelings are natural, do not try to fight them. It’s hard losing your best friend to themselves. We all wished this was a good twin evil twin situation, where the evil twin would be banished. It’s okay to still feel love for her and that you wish for reconciliation. At the same time, it can not be you that can fix her. She has to want the help, and figure that out on her own. You can still love her and set a boundary of “I care about you, but I will not be disrespected”. It’s about loving caring and protecting yourself right now. It’s about getting yourself back. That’s the thing with BPD, they see everyone as two different people except themselves. It’s a process, and a pain most of us can’t describe or have felt before. This is a marathon and not a sprint, and everyone runs at different paces. You don’t need to be over something when you’re not ready. Grieve and process at your own pace. Keep up the great work!

[waverider]

Jekyll was not real through to the core, Both Jekyll and Hyde were just veneers attached to a BPD core. BPD is not an on/off situation, it is constant, the fluctuations are reactions to triggers, but the thought processing is the same constant.  Computer says yes/ computer says no, same computer/ same processor, but it is the answer it gives that determines whether we perceive it as friend or foe. That's why you need to be able to either handle the whole or not at all. You can't cherry pick the reactions that are favourable. This is what confuses us. It takes time for this reality to fully set in, then you will be better equipped to deal with the grieving aspect.

When you experience the Jekyll in someone else where it is a true representation of who their core being is you will feel the authenticity difference. Not just a self serving, even if self sabotaging, thought processor. but someone who is equipped with the empathy to know and care about how their actions affect others.

[OKrunch]

I felt the same way after being pushed and pulled for 3 1/2 years. I still have some days where I feel like I’m internally collapsing and falling apart. That is part of the healing process, and it’s perfectly valid and normal to have days like that. It’s a fresh wound for you. I can hear how much you loved her, and feelings like that do not fade in a day or a week. You invested a lot into that relationship, so there is no need to rush the grieving process. It really does feel like mourning someone who is still alive. Many of us in your situation felt that way, worrying about them cause no one else seemed to give a damn. I understanding feeling like you need to blame yourself. It’s rational to think “I must have done something to deserve this”. In reality, you did not. 95% of the time it is not caused by you. Something that has helped me was the following:
1) if this were truly my fault, I would not be receiving as much care and support as I am
2) This is not the first time this has happened, it is a pattern of behavior for them
3) I could have been abusive, and the result still would have been the same
4) People who know us would not tell me I did nothing wrong

It’s completely understandable that at times you felt like you should have been more present and less reactive. I wouldn’t blame yourself too much. You were responding to an issue you were unaware of, so it makes sense that it was not handled perfectly. Also, we’re human and we make mistakes. Your intentions were to care and understand. The lack of responsiveness could also come from the fact that at times, you were with two different people in the same body.

That is what makes this so hard. You’re free from Hyde, but you lost Jekyll. I’m two months no contact and I still have urges to reach out and want to help. Those feelings are natural, do not try to fight them. It’s hard losing your best friend to themselves. We all wished this was a good twin evil twin situation, where the evil twin would be banished. It’s okay to still feel love for her and that you wish for reconciliation. At the same time, it can not be you that can fix her. She has to want the help, and figure that out on her own. You can still love her and set a boundary of “I care about you, but I will not be disrespected”. It’s about loving caring and protecting yourself right now. It’s about getting yourself back. That’s the thing with BPD, they see everyone as two different people except themselves. It’s a process, and a pain most of us can’t describe or have felt before. This is a marathon and not a sprint, and everyone runs at different paces. You don’t need to be over something when you’re not ready. Grieve and process at your own pace. Keep up the great work!

Chemist, thank you for your kind words. Your empathy is palpable and it means a lot. You very much say what I am feeling in this reply. Its the helplessness. The confusion. I know I can't fix the symptoms of BPD. My aim has always been to be the safe harbor to ride out the storms. The warm hug when the world feels like its too much. I was trying to be the safety shelter for the seasonal storm that is BPD.
This is why I had such confusion about being present to calm the fear of abandonment, Vs. keeping my distance to build attraction.

That said, my focus is still on my own situation.
I need Housing, and unfortunately, right now, that seems to mean playing the waiting game.
My current situation has so much time, stagnancy. I feel defeated and low. Living in a camper at age 35.
its pathetic.
I ordered small Christmas gifts for her and her daughter yesterday after I bought all the stuff for my son.
I did it because I genuinely wanted to. Christmas was special for us as a family.
I'm now concerned she's going to see it as "trying to butter her up"
I haven't talked to her since Sunday, and will not be reaching out. (Which I have said several times recently, but I'm sticking to it this time).


If I had a house, or a new apartment, I could focus on organizing, setup, decorating, and getting the things i need (Couch, TV, workout stuff, etc)
Still packing away money, paying off debt to build credit. Getting ready for FHA Loan in spring.

The next few months are going to SUCK, but they are the toll to pay on the road to peace.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jekyll was not real through to the core, Both Jekyll and Hyde were just veneers attached to a BPD core. BPD is not an on/off situation, it is constant, the fluctuations are reactions to triggers, but the thought processing is the same constant.  Computer says yes/ computer says no, same computer/ same processor, but it is the answer it gives that determines whether we perceive it as friend or foe. That's why you need to be able to either handle the whole or not at all. You can't cherry pick the reactions that are favourable. This is what confuses us. It takes time for this reality to fully set in, then you will be better equipped to deal with the grieving aspect.

When you experience the Jekyll in someone else where it is a true representation of who their core being is you will feel the authenticity difference. Not just a self serving, even if self sabotaging, thought processor. but someone who is equipped with the empathy to know and care about how their actions affect others.

Waverider - I thank you for your tough love and bluntness. These are useful tools, and I appreciate the reality check.
I think I still need time to truly see it this way. I see Jekyll taking steps to save THEMSELVES, and Im not ready to Not be there if that should happen.
I had a good conversation with Therapist yesterday, which we are continuing tomorrow.
It centers around future planning. She has asked me to plan what my future looks like without her in it at all.
I told her that I am going to kind of "hold my position" until spring / Summer.
that is when she typically "returns to Jekyll", and if she has done some progressive work during this time alone, that is our best, last chance.
In the meantime, I have other things to focus on. Dating and rebounding are not on that list.
I can worry about dating when I have a house secured, and life has some solidity and consistency again.

I will be working on separation techniques in the meantime, so basically, here is outline.

December- Do Christmas for my Son, it is his favorite thing and he needs to be happy. Get into Routine of working out, No more smokes as of Jan 1st.

Jan thru March - SAVE EVERY PENNY - Keep eye on housing market, look for CHEAP rentals. Workout, Hike, wait for Spring.

April thru July - Hit savings goal by April 1st. Continue saving and start house shopping. Buy before Birthday in Mid July.

August - Forever - Live in Peace, securely, in my own tiny castle. Get my own Dog. Raise the best Damn Lad the lands have ever seen. Anything else is just Gravy.

[tina7868]

Hi OKrunch! I have read through some of your posts, and wanted to say that the work you are doing on yourself and the clear shifts in your perspective are commendable

[Rev]

Hi OKrunch! I have read through some of your posts, and wanted to say that the work you are doing on yourself and the clear shifts in your perspective are commendable

Took the words right out of my mouth!

[OKrunch]

Im considering cancelling the Christmas stuff I ordered.

Thank you both very much, it doesn't feel like I've made much progress at all on my end, so reassurance like that helps a lot.

[OKrunch]

I cancelled the Christmas gift order. As much as I want to send them stuff (especially her daughter), It is counter productive to do so for several reasons.
I said earlier in my thread "I will give her the gift of missing me for Christmas" and I almost didn't stick to that.

The phone call we had last Sunday went pretty well. That's a perfectly good spot to leave things.

Things I am reminding myself of daily.

1. She left me, or rather ejected me. Away from home, security and stability. All so she could feel better.
IF (HUGE IF) we can ever start a NEW, productive relationship, the first step needs to be her coming back to me, not me going to her.

2. Everything she has done in the last 4 months has been entirely selfish, and yet almost everything I have done in the past 4 months has been sacrificing. That ends now.

3. It's a matter of respect. BPD or not, I have CHOSEN her every time in the past. I never quit, despite the fights. I chose to see the good outweigh the bad. Twice now she has chosen the other path. The easier path, the path of the quitter.
So, back to respect. Why should I disrespect myself by fighting against the tide of an opposing choice?
She chose to end things, as she has always done, with everyone, not just me.
Which means I have been putting in an unreciprocated amount of energy into the corpse of this relationship.
I will no longer disrespect myself by doing so. If she ever regains the amount of respect for me, to see what was there. She will. That's her journey to take and decision to make.

I am what she has been wanting her whole life. I offered the lifetime love and partnership she wants, but cannot seem to actually HAVE when its presented to her.
The engulfment caused by our engagement is so glaringly obvious at this point. Looking back there was so much more self sabotaging behavior than I originally saw.

Moral of the story. I RESPECT MYSELF far too much to keep throwing myself in front of the emotional bus.

So to my ex i say.

I miss you, everyday. My heart aches to go back to the good times I still believe were the core of who we are and our relationship. Ill always love you, but until such time as you decide to meet me in the middle, and love me back, but I gotta go.
No more free support only when YOU need it, no more me telling you "everything will be ok" when you complain about your emotions or your stresses. No more half measures and maybes. I can only give those things if there is healthy, mutual reciprocation and honesty.

Good. Bye.

[cranmango]

I am so impressed, OKrunch. You sound like you are focused on taking care of yourself right now, rather than taking care of your ex. Really powerful insights and perspective in your post.

[tina7868]

I said earlier in my thread "I will give her the gift of missing me for Christmas" and I almost didn't stick to that.

I'd like to normalize this oscillation. You are self-aware enough to reflect upon what it is that serves you best, and there isn't a single answer to what that looks like.

I read confidence and recognition of your own value in your posts. It is inspiring!  

[OKrunch]

Thank you all for your supportive words.
They keep me level headed, and I come back to them when I am feeling weak or in doubt.

This week has been pretty damn hard.
The frequent pendulum swinging between being resolved to cut her out of my life and being angry Vs. missing her and wanting her back is frustrating as all hell.

I reordered that Christmas gift after I cancelled it, then ended up cancelling it a second time.

When the pendulum has swung one way, and I am feeling angry, and done, these are my thoughts.
I get angry about how much she seems not to care about kicking me out, cutting my son out of her life, the fact that BOTH the kids voiced the fact they didn't want us to split up in the weeks leading up to the split. She doesn't care that the kids both lost here, that a 7 year old boy got on the bus one morning thinking everything was fine, then never got to see his house, room, step sister, dogs, cats, or step mother ever again. Just surgically cut away in the matter of hours, and she doesn't care. As long as HER needs got met, right then and there, that's all that mattered. If she has had any doubt, or guilt in the last three months because of any of that, she has kept it to herself, because she made a decision, and cannot be wrong. I get angry about the amount of arguments and fights I can see now were manufactured. I get resolved not to let this kind of crap muddy the waters of my life again. Looking for housing has been a masterclass in denial and frustration. I have been living like an isolated camper hermit for the last three months. It is demeaning, frustrating, and I don't get to see my son nearly as often. All that I love in the world has been cut away, or reduced. I have had some pretty dark damn days of late. I understand many things that I could have done better, but honestly, I think often it would have yielded the same result regardless.
At the end of the day, I get angry about the complete callousness I have seen from her, and the lack of reciprocated respect. I feel like a fool for having reached out and tried to maintain a relationship with someone who ejected me like a parasite.
I get angry at myself for being weak, and begging. there have been days I see the world through a furnace gate, the whole world looks aflame, or burned away. Last night and this morning were pretty bleak. I feel spurned, rejected, lied to, cast away, done wrong and, the key one here, ABANDONED.

Then, like water torture, I'm pulled back up for air, and all I can do is miss her. Miss the kids laughing. Miss The Beatles echoing through the house, wafting through the air laden with the smell of homemade soup broth. I miss having to come through the door and push both my dogs off me, comfortable in the knowladge my son has been home from school for hours and is upstairs playing with his "sister". They began calling eachother brother and sister before we even lived together. She (an 11 year old who is already worried over social status in a new middle school) called my 7 year old her best friend, despite the age gap. I miss sunsets over our lake, going to bed knowing shes been there warming it, while i Stayed up late to enjoy a silent house after an evening of kids and dogs chaos.
I miss planning our nerdy wedding, in a castle, with oaths sworn on swords.
I feel like there is no way, in all of the 9 realms, I will ever find her equal.
The wit, the humor, the sheer intelligence. the drive, the artistic talents, the fire.
She is my Valkyrie, she has overcome every obstacle life has thrown at her, and her laugh could fill the Colosseum.


So, for now, there is where I live, on the pendulum.

I feel like a piece of steel, thrust into the Forge Fire that is my unrelenting anger over this whole situation
only to be pulled out, for a moment into fresh clean air, and beaten by the Hammer of my fond memories, and the fact that despite all of this. I. Still. Love. Her.
Then I think about how after all of this pain, I do still love her, and that love is not being returned, or even anything remotely close to it, and I begin to feel angry again. Spurned, and not good enough. Then its back into the Fire again.
I've been folded over and reheated quite a few times now...


It's about time for the Quench
After that last time in the Fire, when the need for the Hammer has ended. Water is the last step.
Aqua Vita.
then comes the hardening, the sharpening.
the hilt, the handle and the finish work.

I'm almost ready for the quench. This might just be the last time in the fire, and every Hero needs a sword.
getting my grinding wheel and sharpening stone ready.




(Thanks for dealing with all my metaphors. ! )

[Hamster411]

Hi OKrunch,

I have read the entirety of your thread and have related to a lot of what you have gone through. I was in a relationship with my pwBPD for 2.5 years and throughout the relationship there was many ups and downs emotionally but we did not breakup until the end of that time, when she was in a state of psychosis. It has been 4 months of NC and I still think of her all the time, wondering if it could ever work out and get better if I decided to continue to stick with it. I relate to your feelings of feeling like she is your soulmate and that she truly loves you deep down. The NC has been difficult, but I blocked her number when we broke up and have left it that way since (she can still reach out to me through email or postage but has not made the effort to do so). I still feel guilty about blocking her and have thought about unblocking her several times over the last 4 months. I relate to how you feel about the good times, vacations, holidays etc., I still long for those times and have not found anyone new to have those experiences with now. I will continue to follow your thread.

[waverider]

The pendulum is the BPD process, it can't be stopped or held in one place, eventually the momentum sways it again.

To be able to handle its shifting position often takes a degree of indifference. Indifference is not a good foundation for a solid relationship. It may relieve the lows but it also dulls the highs.

Initial naivety dulls our initial perception of the pendulum process by allowing us to compartmentalize its components. But once the realization of the whole process becomes transparent we are often too invested to accept the obvious, so we slog on trying to get the cat to bark, frustrating ourselves and further triggering the cat to screech louder in the process.

It is a spiral that is both difficult to unwind, or escape. To sustain often involves dulling the soul and curtailing of one's expectations, and life goals. Some can live with this, some can't, but it is important to rid yourself of delusions so that you can move forward with realistic conviction and direction. Otherwise you can even end up hating and blaming yourself. Ultimately we are all victims of our own decisions, or indecisions.

Remember life is longer than the last few years, and as life rolls out a few years bear less significance on the whole, unless you drag them out to be a larger portion of your greater life where they run the risk of overwriting it.

Stay strong, keep your mind on the big picture, and don't let the pendulum knock you down

[OKrunch]

Staying in no contact can be damn hard!

Its amazing how many times a day my mind finds reasons to reach out and I have to talk them down.
The addiction symptoms are legit.

In some ways no contact feels counterproductive with BPD/Avoidant attachment.
In others it makes sense.

Right now, I just want to be in a spot where she's communicating with me.
Nobody else gets it like she does sometimes.
Despite all my resolve of late, I still really friggin miss her.
Today has sucked.

[Rev]

Staying in no contact can be damn hard!

Its amazing how many times a day my mind finds reasons to reach out and I have to talk them down.
The addiction symptoms are legit.

In some ways no contact feels counterproductive with BPD/Avoidant attachment.
In others it makes sense.

Right now, I just want to be in a spot where she's communicating with me.
Nobody else gets it like she does sometimes.
Despite all my resolve of late, I still really friggin miss her.
Today has sucked.

All of this is true.

And tomorrow is another day. Choose to honour your struggle as a best as you can.

I just wanted to tell you that I have read this. And I honour your struggle.

Hang in there. Reach out any time.

Rev

[OKrunch]

Thanks again as always.

As much as it hurts, and not reaching out is hard, I'm done playing this game.

Deleted her number, blocked her facebook.
Getting a new phone next week, and mailing the one i have back to her (its from her phone plan).
There will be no note in the package with the phone.

i put myself out there for her several times After she kicked me and my son out. She hasn't shown an ounce of give-a-sheet.
I looked over old messages right when we we getting back together a year and a half ago. Even in those, nothing is her fault.

I plan to take some time off. Im not going to reach out to her ever again. Ill reply if she does, but soon she wont even have a way to contact me.

I am going to take a break from the forum also. I want to focus entirely on my son for the holidays.
Ill come back after new years and check in.

You are all amazing. This journey would have been another tale of me getting in my own way and paving my own road to failure if not for this community and my therapist.

I may still have pain.
But this weekend i fully embraced acceptance. Radically.

My power is mine again. Forevermore.

[SaltyDawg]

OKrunch,

   Sounds like a good plan.  Take care of yourself with self-care - that includes taking a badly needed break from all this mess as it can be an obsession.  Take care of your son.

   Happy Holidays.

[OKrunch]

Well, looks like the break needs to wait a day.

I got a call from her this morning. She had called to see about when to drop off the Christmas decorations she still has of mine.
The conversation started off good, she was warm and making jokes. Then I could hear the anxiety building in her voice, I tried to end the conversation there in a good way, but she ended up at first expressing guilt that I was in the housing situation I am, and that turned into her stressing over bills and money and eventually to her yelling about why I failed in the relationship.
I calmly said I did not want to fight and hung up.
She began sending texts to the effect of
"You should have let me go find someone who would have loved me for who I was in the beginning"  (reference to my need to take things slow at first after a bad divorce)

Compared how i felt in the beginning to some guy who wants to date her now and she just isn't attracted to (very much hinted that it was because he lacks many of my traits)

AGAIN accused me of "only being with her so I had a place to live and someone to take care of me"

"you should have made me feel like I was worth something years ago"

I responded to these things by saying things like "Im sorry you feel that way, I would like to hear more about why you feel that way"
and
"I understand why you would feel that way, but I have chosen you because of you for a long time, not because of any needs i expect you to fulfill"

Some takeaways:

She's definitely feeling guilty about her rash reaction of kicking me out, but finding ways to still justify it.

She sometimes misses me and is comparing me to potential suitors, to apparently frustrating results.

She is still raw about a lot of things, both real and perceived, and is still placing all the blame on me. (this one is big)

I showed I am in control of my anger, as I did not react to hers the way I have in the past.

I feel like I accomplished some validating communication. We'll see if that counts for anything.

She was excited to talk with me at first.

--------------------------------------------------------------

So, right as I find some resolve, we have tests like this pop up.
I feel like although there was a lot that hurt about this conversation (especially her mentioning this other guy that wants her so bad) there was some progress and communication as well.

She's definitely still mad, whether that's all at me or some with herself, who knows.

Thoughts? Opinions?

[SaltyDawg]

Your conversation started nice, perhaps because of the holidays which can bring in 'warm and fuzzy feelings', and then it turned irrational and illogical especially after you rejected or invalidated her by politely hanging up the phone she went into a borderline rage.  This is not productive for either one of you guys.

Next time, keep it BIFF.

[OKrunch]

Your conversation started nice, perhaps because of the holidays which can bring in 'warm and fuzzy feelings', and then it turned irrational and illogical especially after you rejected or invalidated her by politely hanging up the phone she went into a borderline rage.  This is not productive for either one of you guys.

Next time, keep it BIFF.

I hung up because she began yelling, it was not after i hung up that she got angry.
I did keep it BIFF. I was pleasant, did not react to her anger. Brief as I ended it when it got contentious, Informative of my reasonable boundary.
Being yelled at is a boundary, I told her calmly and politely, "Please don't yell, I do not want to fight" and she yelled so I hung up.

She got angry after discussing her money stressors (which wouldn't be problem If we still had a 2 income household)

[OKrunch]

My Therapist's words -

"I feel like you handled that very well. You maintained very good control and set that boundary that you weren't going to fight. That is a great way to show action rather than just say things. The biggest thing that I am seeing is that she still blames you for everything and is not taking responsibility on her end. That is showing me that there isn't much in the way of progress on her end. So, with that being the case, this roller coaster is still going to follow the same patterns as before and she will continue to blame you for everything that goes wrong in her life, whether you guys are together or not. If you get back together, she will continue to point all these things out every time you guys argue. Keep that resolve because it is just going to be the same stuff ."